Like to get thoughts and any suggestions on this video of my 11yr olds swing. This is from a recent hitting session.
here is the link - side and a front view.
http://touchemallball.blogspot.../12/nick-age-11.html
Original Post
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Need in slo-mo. Put this on youtube. Can't download from here.
Looks like linear to me. Not sure though.
Ask your instructor if they are teaching linear or rotational.
Looks like linear to me. Not sure though.
Ask your instructor if they are teaching linear or rotational.
His lower body is very good for this age and the only thing I would change with it would be to slow it down some. What I mean by that, is load the weight back sooner and see how long he can keep his front foot off the ground and make it land softly. His upper body needs work, but it doesn't need much for this age to be successful even against the best Pitchers. He needs to create some separation between his rear hip and hands. To do that, he needs to pull his hands back and around (meaning toward the dugout, not the Catcher) with the fingers of his top hand like he's pulling the string of a bow as he strides out. The timing should be, hands fully back as front foot lands.
These are just small tweaks to a pretty darn good foundation.
These are just small tweaks to a pretty darn good foundation.
Any other input or thoughts - Thanks
Nice video work Dad.... always good to hit lefty!
I'm with Sultan in that you can better interpert what you see when you have the ability to slow the film down.
Let me react to the good I saw; pretty good balance, almost no stride, relaxed stance, head nor body moving forward..
The one improvement to work on that I would be telling my son, from the video would concern "posture." The flaw is that his head seems to dip down sideways (tilt) during his swing. Just as in pitching, you see the target (ball to a hitter) better if the eyes remain horizontal.
The other thing I wonder about is that he seems to be getting "bound-up" during the swing. I can't tell much about his grip, ensure it's proper and he's not gripping too tight, slowing him down. He is finishing low vs. high which doesn't allow the bat to travel. Power noted and I agree, hips are in the way not letting his upper half travel (another reason he is bound-up).
IMO, working a the basics of a linear swing, at this age, isn't a bad thing; athletic stance, some concept of load, barrel to the inside of the ball, balanced high finish ... etc. is enought to focus on. Incorporating more rotation from the hips, power generation and sequencing, can come later.
I'm with Sultan in that you can better interpert what you see when you have the ability to slow the film down.
Let me react to the good I saw; pretty good balance, almost no stride, relaxed stance, head nor body moving forward..
The one improvement to work on that I would be telling my son, from the video would concern "posture." The flaw is that his head seems to dip down sideways (tilt) during his swing. Just as in pitching, you see the target (ball to a hitter) better if the eyes remain horizontal.
The other thing I wonder about is that he seems to be getting "bound-up" during the swing. I can't tell much about his grip, ensure it's proper and he's not gripping too tight, slowing him down. He is finishing low vs. high which doesn't allow the bat to travel. Power noted and I agree, hips are in the way not letting his upper half travel (another reason he is bound-up).
IMO, working a the basics of a linear swing, at this age, isn't a bad thing; athletic stance, some concept of load, barrel to the inside of the ball, balanced high finish ... etc. is enought to focus on. Incorporating more rotation from the hips, power generation and sequencing, can come later.
How does he hit in games?
He hit well last year. Makes pretty good contact. He won the Silver Slugger Award for his 10yr old AAU team.
Try the insiderbat
If he hits well, dont change anything to drastic. Silver Slugger sounds like a nice title...
Get him a LIGHT medicine ball (4-6 lbs).
Look up a good routine for that, he'll be dropping bombs
Get him a LIGHT medicine ball (4-6 lbs).
Look up a good routine for that, he'll be dropping bombs
His hands finish too low.
Otherwise he looks pretty good.
Otherwise he looks pretty good.
We are working on him to stay on top of the ball and to finish higher - down the hill-through the tunnel-back up the hill.
What kind of things can he do with the medicine ball? I do think his power will come as he gets older.
Any other input or thoughts are welcomed
What kind of things can he do with the medicine ball? I do think his power will come as he gets older.
Any other input or thoughts are welcomed
I don't like the medicine ball as much as I like to see a kid throw a small tire. Have done both and the tire is easier to focus on the core than the ball. A very small car tire or lawnmower tire.
The easiest thing to tell a kid is to finish every swing at the shoulder. Very simple language that seems to be effective.
The easiest thing to tell a kid is to finish every swing at the shoulder. Very simple language that seems to be effective.
Like alot of what I see. Kid is off to a good start.
Just bear in mind it takes alot of leg/core strength to handle his stance's width; few kids that age have it. Get too wide and there is a tendency to see the hips not get through the hitting zone properly, though this young man isn't too bad.
Looks like he is trying too much to hit everything out in front off the front foot and wants to reach for some pitches; slightly narrower stride/stance width may help him let the pitch get deeper instead of him thinking he has to "go out after it". If he has the mindset of having to go out after the ball, rotational mechanics can break down as he may develop a habit of reaching for everything. I think it may help him finish a bit higher with his swing as many of his real low finishes were low pitches that he seemed to be reaching out forward to hit.
Like the comment about slowing down (would include the pitch frequency); would like the stride to be a bit smoother/softer and not a "step".
Whole lot more good than bad with this kid. Little patient tweaks would all I would do to his swing; don't let him become a coach's "experiment".
Just bear in mind it takes alot of leg/core strength to handle his stance's width; few kids that age have it. Get too wide and there is a tendency to see the hips not get through the hitting zone properly, though this young man isn't too bad.
Looks like he is trying too much to hit everything out in front off the front foot and wants to reach for some pitches; slightly narrower stride/stance width may help him let the pitch get deeper instead of him thinking he has to "go out after it". If he has the mindset of having to go out after the ball, rotational mechanics can break down as he may develop a habit of reaching for everything. I think it may help him finish a bit higher with his swing as many of his real low finishes were low pitches that he seemed to be reaching out forward to hit.
Like the comment about slowing down (would include the pitch frequency); would like the stride to be a bit smoother/softer and not a "step".
Whole lot more good than bad with this kid. Little patient tweaks would all I would do to his swing; don't let him become a coach's "experiment".
Thanks for the input
What can I do to have him to finish higher? Any other little things (adjustments)I can work on with him?
kaos,
I am no expert myself, but I'll tell you what the guy that my son takes lessons from does:
1. Hit off of a tee, and hold the finish EVERY swing. He checks himself at that point- finish high, back knee down, front foot closed, etc..
2. swing in front of a mirror- hold the finish.
I think if he does it enough, muscle memory will take over..
I am no expert myself, but I'll tell you what the guy that my son takes lessons from does:
1. Hit off of a tee, and hold the finish EVERY swing. He checks himself at that point- finish high, back knee down, front foot closed, etc..
2. swing in front of a mirror- hold the finish.
I think if he does it enough, muscle memory will take over..
Tell him to finish his hands at his lead shoulder on every pitch.
quote:Originally posted by kaos:
What can I do to have him to finish higher? Any other little things (adjustments)I can work on with him?
Use shoulder tilt instead of shoulder rotation.
quote:Originally posted by danocaster:
kaos,
I am no expert myself, but I'll tell you what the guy that my son takes lessons from does:
1. Hit off of a tee, and hold the finish EVERY swing. He checks himself at that point- finish high, back knee down, front foot closed, etc..
2. swing in front of a mirror- hold the finish.
I think if he does it enough, muscle memory will take over..
Just because you finish in a certain position, it doesn't mean you got there the right way.
quote:Originally posted by powertoallfields:quote:Originally posted by kaos:
What can I do to have him to finish higher? Any other little things (adjustments)I can work on with him?
Use shoulder tilt instead of shoulder rotation.
Please explain - not sure if I understand? Tilt ...?
The back shoulder goes down and the front shoulder goes up. The shoulders should not go straight around, the back shoulder should get closer to the back hip, but it also needs to be done at the right time.
Thanks for the input. We have started to use insider bat. Doing more tee work and soft toss to work on seeing the ball longer and letting the ball get deeper.
11 y/o ? Quite a future ahead.
a. Place a tee well in front of the plate and encourage the child to extend his bat path through out the hitting plane.
b. Looks strong for age, yet suggest trying several things
- hit with woood. (with lightest wood bat available....(30 oz may be around)
- try a light broomstick cut to his length (and check out his bat speed with underload)
- continue improving ball tracking skills with eyes.
- continue improving 'lifting' of the hit baseball (and to all fields). Observed far to many weak ground ball swings (5-6) with a dozen swings.
Good Luck. Exciting age.
a. Place a tee well in front of the plate and encourage the child to extend his bat path through out the hitting plane.
b. Looks strong for age, yet suggest trying several things
- hit with woood. (with lightest wood bat available....(30 oz may be around)
- try a light broomstick cut to his length (and check out his bat speed with underload)
- continue improving ball tracking skills with eyes.
- continue improving 'lifting' of the hit baseball (and to all fields). Observed far to many weak ground ball swings (5-6) with a dozen swings.
Good Luck. Exciting age.
I actually think his lower half turns over "just because" and not with a purpose. I'd like to see it turn harder which will generate more pop. Nice overall swing, though.
OK, I finally looked by frame. This was a very interesting case.
First, my previous comment that he might be using elements of a linear swing is totally wrong. There's nothing linear about it (that's a good thing).
He does a lot of things very well. His two problems are kinda deceptive, though.
1. The first frame problem
He does tilt and turn well, but not at the very beginning ... His first move after toe touch, instead of turning, is to crouch his shoulders and body down. At the same time he brings his back elbow down without turning his shoulders.
Begin the swing by doing 2 things simultaneously: tilt and turn your shoulders, drop your back elbow to hips. (he's only dropping elbow now)
2. The middle frames
He looks good. Very good. He keeps his hands back and he keeps his back elbow tucked.
3. The last frame
He is hitting the ball too far out front. He should make contact somewhere along his front foot - ball of foot for down-the-middle pitches. Both elbows float away from his body resulting in a loss of power. Notice how sometimes the bat seems to wiggle at impact.
I hardly ever mention what happens after contact, but he is inconsistent with where his hands end up. Sometimes at the shoulder, sometimes at the hips. I would have him take swings, without a ball, going from shoulder to shoulder.
First, my previous comment that he might be using elements of a linear swing is totally wrong. There's nothing linear about it (that's a good thing).
He does a lot of things very well. His two problems are kinda deceptive, though.
1. The first frame problem
He does tilt and turn well, but not at the very beginning ... His first move after toe touch, instead of turning, is to crouch his shoulders and body down. At the same time he brings his back elbow down without turning his shoulders.
Begin the swing by doing 2 things simultaneously: tilt and turn your shoulders, drop your back elbow to hips. (he's only dropping elbow now)
2. The middle frames
He looks good. Very good. He keeps his hands back and he keeps his back elbow tucked.
3. The last frame
He is hitting the ball too far out front. He should make contact somewhere along his front foot - ball of foot for down-the-middle pitches. Both elbows float away from his body resulting in a loss of power. Notice how sometimes the bat seems to wiggle at impact.
I hardly ever mention what happens after contact, but he is inconsistent with where his hands end up. Sometimes at the shoulder, sometimes at the hips. I would have him take swings, without a ball, going from shoulder to shoulder.
Yes there is work to be done. He is working to get a consistent swing and I think that will come with time and more swings.
Definately linear which is fine. But he looks athletic and should focus on a rotational swing plane. Hes young and a rotational swing would increase his power numbers and improve is contact. As he gets older he will be susceptable to breaking balls and popping balls up if hes to steep. But not bad at all.
The reason you finish high is to get extension through the ball. The high finish doesn't cause extension. The extension causes the high finish. There is no way to get good extension if you are finishing low. Try throwing the bat. Swing as normal but throw the bat into the net. With his swing now the bat will go to his left. With proper extension the bat will go towards the pitcher.
quote:There is no way to get good extension if you are finishing low.
Are you sure?
More pictures !!!! Just about anyone can find pictures and post---BlueDog time for you to come up with something of substance
Reads like someone is being called out!
2 of the 3 pics are finishing high (hands at the shoulders). Not sure what you are getting at.
I see hands finishing below the shoulders....
I'm saying follow-through is a smokescreen...Just like stance and stride...
I'm saying follow-through is a smokescreen...Just like stance and stride...
Does extension through the ball matter? You can only hit the ball once. Follow through is post-contact. Instead of the word smokescreen, why not look at this as a non-teach? If you focus on getting TO contact better, the follow through will happen on its own (after you actually hit the ball.)
Yes, some kids might have success with focusing on the follow through. But you are asking them to focus on something at the end to fix something in the beginning.
Yes, some kids might have success with focusing on the follow through. But you are asking them to focus on something at the end to fix something in the beginning.
Yes extension is important if you want to hit with power. Two of the pictures finish high and appear to have extension. The upper right hand one does not and gets no extension through the zone. The height of the finish in not teachable. It is a sign that you need to fix something else in the swing. If you have a proper swing you will finish with the hands at or above the shoulder. Also Bluedog it is possible to have individual success with an improper swing. But it can be easier if done right.
quote:The upper right hand one does not and gets no extension through the zone.
I agree that extension in the swing is important...
What you're missing is, you don't have to finish high to get to extension....
One thing I can assure you is, Aaron got very good extension....So did all the old-time players who finished way low with their hands....
And, frankly, some players finish high on some swings and low on others...
Cobb...
Gehrig...
Had to go back to 1919 to find a video, huh? I think Cobb must have been hungover that day. (Cobb had lots of hits, but had only 117 career HR) 
So Swat, you're saying Cobb and Gehrig weren't great hitters?
quote:Gehrig...
nice old clips... Gehrig starts with a backward movement, nice.
Show me something a little more modern. I am not seeing the extension in the clips you show. Just saying it is there does not make it so. How do you thinks these guys would hit against modern pitching?
Cobb is probably looking for me now.
BlueDog
I hope that the wind is not blowing in your face
I hope that the wind is not blowing in your face
quote:Cobb is probably looking for me now.
It's all good....
WOW!!! I guess mutual respect for one's talent cuts through a lot of things, huh? Where in the world did you get this clip? Great stuff!
Cobb spit on his hand before he shook it. 
Power, a bit older, but, still friends.....
He looks very good for his age,
His finish is a biproduct of his swing. His finish will come naturally based on his bat path.
A few things from my quick observation;
He seems to muscle up on the ball, meaning he looks tense in his arms. The "free-er" he can be with his hands the more bat speed he will generate. Look at youtube on Manny Ramirez, his arms and hands are loose allowing his to stay back a long time.
Like to see his lower half more quiet, he is moving around on his feet a little too much. When he faces faster pitchers, this may become an issue.
I think he is closing off his swing, he starts with a slight closed stance (front foot in toward the plate) and then his stride closes him off even more.
Try to get him to hit the ball right back up the middle while keeping it off the roof of the cage. This will builds a line drive swing and help him square up every pitch.
He looks very, very good for 11. Great work.
Brian
"hitting is like shaving, if you don't do it everyday you look like a bumb" - unknown
His finish is a biproduct of his swing. His finish will come naturally based on his bat path.
A few things from my quick observation;
He seems to muscle up on the ball, meaning he looks tense in his arms. The "free-er" he can be with his hands the more bat speed he will generate. Look at youtube on Manny Ramirez, his arms and hands are loose allowing his to stay back a long time.
Like to see his lower half more quiet, he is moving around on his feet a little too much. When he faces faster pitchers, this may become an issue.
I think he is closing off his swing, he starts with a slight closed stance (front foot in toward the plate) and then his stride closes him off even more.
Try to get him to hit the ball right back up the middle while keeping it off the roof of the cage. This will builds a line drive swing and help him square up every pitch.
He looks very, very good for 11. Great work.
Brian
"hitting is like shaving, if you don't do it everyday you look like a bumb" - unknown
Here's Manny....
Bat path....
Bat path....
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Power, a bit older, but, still friends.....
Priceless! Thanks for sharing!
videos of swings with the low finish are all on pitches that are up in the zone. Old timers didn't keep the ball down as well as pitchers today.
The problem with the Kid in the video is he is swinging level with the ground and not level with the plane of the ball. that is why he is finishing low.
The problem with the Kid in the video is he is swinging level with the ground and not level with the plane of the ball. that is why he is finishing low.
Coach Curt, I agree, it's a swing plane issue....
The follow-through is not always high and not always low....
The follow-through is not always high and not always low....
Ty Cobb giving a hitting lesson....Probably started with, spread your hands on the bat like this... 
Is this something to work on or something that will change as he gets older? Overall thoughts on swing?Any other evaluations of the hitting video?
quote:Originally posted by Coach Curt:
videos of swings with the low finish are all on pitches that are up in the zone. Old timers didn't keep the ball down as well as pitchers today.
The problem with the Kid in the video is he is swinging level with the ground and not level with the plane of the ball. that is why he is finishing low.
The clips of Manny illustrate perfectly what i'm talking about.
Season has started and my 11 year old is hitting pretty good. Team is 5-1 and he is 10-18 with 5 doubles. My question is on the doubles it looks like off the bat that the ball jumps off but seems to die - what could be the cause for this? what should I look for or at to se what it is? is it just poss. hitting with too much top spin or something else?
kaos-
Yes I would say top spin could be the culprit. Previous posters mentioned swing plane (swinging level with the plane of the ball, not the ground) and fixing this could help the ball carry better by putting more backspin on it.
------------------------------
Yes I would say top spin could be the culprit. Previous posters mentioned swing plane (swinging level with the plane of the ball, not the ground) and fixing this could help the ball carry better by putting more backspin on it.
------------------------------
He throws his hands (the barrell) really well. you can see him pull that front elbow down, as opposed to around the ball, which is perfect. His head is down to see the point of contact. My only suggestion would be to shorten his stride. He is losing balance after some swings, which means he can get alot more power out of his legs. Shorten his stride and have him hold his pose after he swings, to see if hes balanced. Other than that.. really good.
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:
Here's Manny....
Its really really difficult to mimic Manny;s swing and have success. I have seen him since he was younger as we both played in the same league, yet hes older. Ive seen him hit alot, and he has AMAZING bat speed, but its extremely hard to have good results with his leg kick. Hes a very smart hitter and he can figure out whats coming and ALWAYS has a plan when he gets up there with what he wants to do. Through his career (which has been hall of fame quality) he has gotten fooled and taken strike 3 quite often. But the good definitely outweighs the struggles. Best pure hitter I;ve ever seen up close.
Bat path....
