Hopeless?? - controversial subject, maybe...

Is he playing summer ball?

greatgame posted:

Is he playing summer ball?

On and off... Money, parents, you know the drill... but sometimes he does.  Usually as a fill in for teams in need.  

The social perspective for Latin players isn't great. Sure a handful gets a big bonus but the majority gets a small bonus, washes out after two years in the minors and then is on the streets without a school education (I know on paper they get an education in the academies but reality...)

I don't think we want that for US kids and we shouldn't want that for Latin kids either. Problem is that even with a school education for many the ceiling  in the Dominican republic is limited so the risk is worth it for them and even a 10k bonus is the most money they will ever see in their lives so I'm not condemning them for taking the chance.

Now it is possible to turn pro without playing HS. Given the same talent teams probably prefer a kid who played HS but I'm sure a kid who only played travel throwing 96 will get drafted.

Is he dumber than a tree stump or just lazy? If he’s lazy it means he doesn’t want baseball badly enough. If he’s not very bright he should still be able to make it through the lowest level of high school or vo-tech. If he gets a GED he’s a high school graduate.

I’m not a baseball insider. But if this kid isn’t motivated enough to pass the lowest level of high school where the average graduating gpa is 3.5 what happens when he hits a challenge in the minors? 

Don’t assume Carribean players lack intelligence just because they sign at 16 and come to the US. 

some summer teams provide "scholarships"  for financially strapped families.  some will pay the expenses for good players to play for then . 

Also get a GED go to JUCO.

keep working on getting better. 

Truthfully, if the kid were that good and scouts knew about him I'm sure he would've received the - GED/please just graduate talk - and a team would have picked him up for cheap. 

But let's say this kid did sign at 16 and went to the minors. If he doesn't cut it in 5 years. Now he is a 21 year old with no HS education; and with minor league pay, presumably broke. 

Another problem is that the Dominican kids have been playing against adults most of their teenage years. Washed up former players, prospects that never signed, journeymen. The 16 year old from the US is seeing HS pitching. How often are they seeing 90, how often are they seeing 86? How often are they even playing against other D1 caliber players? Unless they're on the travel circuit with one of the top 25 travel teams in the country, they're almost never exposed to that, let alone on a regular basis. 

If he's that good, or even close to it, why isn't he playing summer ball? I've seen plenty of kids playing on nationally recognized summer teams for free ( travel included in many cases). It's basically their marketing budget.

I think you bring up good points, but there should be rules in place for maintaining grades in order to play.  I just wonder if the student, parents, faculty, coach have done enough to address his grades.  Perhaps he has a learning disability and needs special attention.  With the right amount of guidance and support, he should be able to get his grades up.  

CTbballDad posted:

I think you bring up good points, but there should be rules in place for maintaining grades in order to play.  I just wonder if the student, parents, faculty, coach have done enough to address his grades.  Perhaps he has a learning disability and needs special attention.  With the right amount of guidance and support, he should be able to get his grades up.  

Why?

Some people just don't have it in certain things. If academics is one of those things for someone, it does no good to waste resources on something in which they will never be proficient nor ever use.

I have been around a lot of players who have been drafted.  I'd suggest that those players with weaker grades and a lot of talent often get drafted and signed.  They aren't "college material" and so, if they have the ability, those scouts know the lay of the land and that those players will sign for a prayer.  Of course, many of those players who don't get the grades go the JUCO route to get seen.  

Matt13 posted:

CTbballDad posted:

I think you bring up good points, but there should be rules in place for maintaining grades in order to play.  I just wonder if the student, parents, faculty, coach have done enough to address his grades.  Perhaps he has a learning disability and needs special attention.  With the right amount of guidance and support, he should be able to get his grades up.  

Why?

Some people just don't have it in certain things. If academics is one of those things for someone, it does no good to waste resources on something in which they will never be proficient nor ever use.

Well that is part of playing HS sports. They're extracurriculars that are part of the school itself, you need to be academically eligible to play. As far as wasting resources, that is a whole different argument that goes beyond student athletes to the public school system, plenty of which I'm sure I would agree with. 

But I do not fault the school. It is not hard to pull a C- and just get by to be eligible to play/graduate. It is the sport that is optional, not the education. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but all this kid has to do is graduate HS or earn his GED or even just not enroll in college anywhere and he is still eligible to get drafted/signed in some capacity? 

RJM posted:

Is he dumber than a tree stump or just lazy? If he’s lazy it means he doesn’t want baseball badly enough. If he’s not very bright he should still be able to make it through the lowest level of high school or vo-tech. If he gets a GED he’s a high school graduate.

I’m not a baseball insider. But if this kid isn’t motivated enough to pass the lowest level of high school where the average graduating gpa is 3.5 what happens when he hits a challenge in the minors? 

Don’t assume Carribean players lack intelligence just because they sign at 16 and come to the US. 

So I'm not talking intelligence....  I'm talking opportunity to shine and REALLY sharpen baseball skills.  Caribbean players have more opportunity than US kids to play baseball. (I know about their life and conditions... talking baseball here, not life in general.  I get it.).  I do sense an unease in the baseball community with the rise of the Int'l player.  Not out of racism or anything like that, but out of knowing that we can play too, but somehow we are stunting our own baseball development.   I could be wrong here.  This is just a subject I'm exploring out of intellectual curiosity.

It doesn't appear that anyone has been bold enough to create a program that circumvents the high school model.   I don't know of any kid that has exclusively gone through club and "made it"...

BobbyBaseball posted:

 

It doesn't appear that anyone has been bold enough to create a program that circumvents the high school model.   I don't know of any kid that has exclusively gone through club and "made it"...

Not sure what you mean by "made it".  I do know that a recent grad of my son's HS procured a D1 scholarship while only playing travel.  Ignored HS ball as a freshman and sophomore and committed as a soph.  Did play HS as a junior and senior.  He was a PO, and the school is a state power.  My guess is that he didn't want to waste any pitches playing sub varsity and saved them for the Summer.

I think that at some point main stream travel teams will compete with HS in the Spring season.  There is too much money to be made for them to sit on the sidelines forever.

 

I think that at some point main stream travel teams will compete with HS in the Spring season.  There is too much money to be made for them to sit on the sidelines forever.

I can see that happening...  

 

Not sure what you mean by "made it".  I do know that a recent grad of my son's HS procured a D1 scholarship while only playing travel.  Ignored HS ball as a freshman and sophomore and committed as a soph.  Did play HS as a junior and senior.  He was a PO, and the school is a state power.  My guess is that he didn't want to waste any pitches playing sub varsity and saved them for the Summer.

 

I'd be interested to know if said D1 had any say in him playing jr/sr years.

Throughout the Caribbean baseball is the Number 1 sport.  Track and soccer are popular but baseball and the draw of the US makes baseball huge.  

With the advent of baseball academies run by MLB clubs it creates a draw for kids to focus exclusively on playing ball.  An poor kid in DR just does not have the opportunities for an education based future that a US kid has.  Nothing to do with brains in the heads of those kids...just a fact of life there.

So they are all in on baseball.  The thread going on right now about "Where are the baseball players?" has all kinds of ideas on pull for US kids in different directions.  Then there is the problem of why potential US players of color are skipping the sport altogether.

Unless football dies over the concussion issue - and it might actually be starting - US based baseball is no better than the 3rd option for premier athletes and it is increasingly a dogfight with soccer and lacrosse for that position.

...............they are all in on baseball.  The thread going on right now about "Where are the baseball players?" has all kinds of ideas on pull for US kids in different directions.  ..............

 

Thanks for the heads up on the other thread.  Yeah, I'm not entirely convinced that there's not a draw for players.   My angle is that the players we draw are stunted by a "system" that holds them back.  Grade dynamics in this thread, HS baseball politics, money etc. etc.  Are all of those things, prevent us from being all in on baseball like the Int'l players are?  Did MLB realize this and abandon (although not completely) the US baseball pipeline.

A really close look at the minor leagues tells me that it's possible....   I love going to low level games here in AZ.   Rookie, developmental leagues etc...  Lots of of Caribbean players in the pipeline...  sprinkled in are others.  Seems to me that there is a career path issue...  Although many would argue Baseball is not a wise career path to aspire to. 

PABaseball posted:

Matt13 posted:

CTbballDad posted:

I think you bring up good points, but there should be rules in place for maintaining grades in order to play.  I just wonder if the student, parents, faculty, coach have done enough to address his grades.  Perhaps he has a learning disability and needs special attention.  With the right amount of guidance and support, he should be able to get his grades up.  

Why?

Some people just don't have it in certain things. If academics is one of those things for someone, it does no good to waste resources on something in which they will never be proficient nor ever use.

Well that is part of playing HS sports. They're extracurriculars that are part of the school itself, you need to be academically eligible to play. As far as wasting resources, that is a whole different argument that goes beyond student athletes to the public school system, plenty of which I'm sure I would agree with. 

But I do not fault the school. It is not hard to pull a C- and just get by to be eligible to play/graduate. It is the sport that is optional, not the education. 

I'm not talking about HS sports, though. If you were, I agree.