How do you score this?

10.09(b) SAC assuming SK believes the play could have been made successfully on BR at 1B with ordinary effort. If not 1B.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
10.09(b) SAC assuming SK believes the play could have been made successfully on BR at 1B with ordinary effort. If not 1B.

Careful luv, the situation is HS ball, not pro ball. LOL!

For me, taking into account only the information given, I score it a hit and head to the parking lot. Of course it may have been that two-ton-Tony who runs an 11 second 40 dropped the bunt, and in that case I’d likely mark it a sac bunt. But chances are, both R5 and R3 are crashing with the only intention to keep the runner from scoring. In that case, had the ball been fielded, an FC may be more in order, but since the umpire was the one who picked up the ball and the defense never touched it, to me the kid is gonna get a hit.

NFHS Rule 2-31 SACRIFICE
A sacrifice is a bunt which enables any runner to advance, or a fly ball( sacrifice fly) which enables a runner to score. In either case, the result is the batter-runner being put out before he reaches first base, or would have resulted in his being put out if the batted ball had been fielded without error, and provided two were not out when the ball was hit.

I think the answer is hit.

I'll quote OBR since I have it handy at work. Agree with Stats that FED is different.

Definition of a hit 10.5 (5) A fair ball that has not been touched by a fielder touches a runner or an umpire, unless a runner is called out for having been touched by an Infield Fly...

If the umpire doesn't touch the ball, I probably go sacrifice based on
10.8 (b) Score a sacrifice bunt when, before two are out, the fielders handle a bunted ball without error in an unsuccessful attempt to put out a preceding runner advancing one base...

I think this was Luv's opinion, we just disagree on the 10.9 vs 10.8 which I assume is a typo

I would say the fielder's not being able to make a play on the ball constitutes slow play, which is not an error. Obviously the slow play occurred because they had no chance at putting out the runner at home. That ended the game so there was no point of making any other attempt on any other player.

I don't have a FED rulebook to read the whole definition but

"NFHS Rule 2-31 SACRIFICE
A sacrifice is a bunt which enables any runner to advance, or a fly ball( sacrifice fly) which enables a runner to score. In either case, the result is the batter-runner being put out before he reaches first base, or would have resulted in his being put out if the batted ball had been fielded without error, and provided two were not out when the ball was hit. "

doesn't provide for a case of applying a sacrifice if the runner isn't out for reason of anything but an error, which didn't happen in this case. If there is a part B or something it might provide more lattitude. Again, I don't have the rulebook at work.

Strictly an academic exercise. If I saw this in person, I'd probably award the hit and try and beat the traffic instead of spending 30 minutes with a rule book.

Guilty on the MLB ORB. It's what I had handy. NFHS reading as you describe I agree with, even though my gut says SAC is the right scoring.

He's trying to plate the winning run as the top priority so unless he's a burner he's hanging in there to make sure he gets it down so beating the rap at 1st so barring a great bunt or an overrun by the defense they will get him at 1B a real high percentage of the time.

Despite all that commentary....rules is rules!

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
Guilty on the MLB ORB. It's what I had handy. NFHS reading as you describe I agree with, even though my gut says SAC is the right scoring.

He's trying to plate the winning run as the top priority so unless he's a burner he's hanging in there to make sure he gets it down so beating the rap at 1st so barring a great bunt or an overrun by the defense they will get him at 1B a real high percentage of the time.

Despite all that commentary....rules is rules!

No matter what happens, unless the scorer is looking for trouble, s/he shouldn't try to guess what was in player’s mind, or what might have happened, unless the rules say to do that, as in the case of determining earned runs where the benefit of any doubt is given to the pitcher. In the scenario JMoff gave us, the batter wasn’t put out, and the only clue we have as to whether or not there was even a chance he could have been, was that the bunt was placed perfectly. With nothing more than that to go on, I’m giving the batter the benefit of the doubt every time.

It seems to me that to do anything else would be to say that no matter what, a batter that bunts with a runner on should never be given a base hit because his assumed intention was to give himself up for an out. But in the end, that’s why scorers don’t score everything exactly the same way. And after all, as far as the team goes, what’s the big difference if it’s a hit, a sac, or a FC? Would the dog pile be bigger if it were one as opposed to the other? Would the win mean any more or any less if it were one as opposed to the other? As long as the scorer does what s/he feels is best and doesn’t violate any rules, its all good.

Stats: Exactly...

I'd score hit simply out of respect for execution in the circumstance. In a MLB game, the official scorer would have to do something, of course in a MLB game no hitter dog piles until they touch first base.

There are situations when stats matter to the player and when they don't.

Good luck everyone as HS baseball is about to start.