hi. I'm in 8th grade, averaging around 81 MPH, and maxing out at 83-84. I'm 6'1, 160 pounds. I was wondering how hard I need to throw to go division 1 from this point. Also, how soon should I begin to look at colleges? I'm still young, in 8th grade.
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Here you go: http://community.hsbaseballweb...r-at-certain-schools
Good luck!
RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
Harder than you are throwing now. 8th grade doesn't matter. How hard will you throw as a senior in High School? Will you work hard to gain velocity? Will you stay healthy? Will you still play? Can you pitch? Do you have a "plus" curveball, changeup, slider? Can you handle game pressure? How do you handle setbacks? Can you make grades? Are you a hard worker? Time will tell. What can you do to set yourself apart from all the other hard throwers? Keep working at it.
There are several questions rolled into one.
First, velo at D1. D1 has roughly 300 baseball programs, ranging from the SEC down to a few teams which are unaffiliated. At the tippy top, roughly sitting 90+ gets notice. At the lower end, a RH starter may sit 85 - 88. LHP can throw a few miles slower. Unique pitchers (e.g., sidearm) are considered separately.
Second, what do YOU want to do? You are way ahead here (being in 8th grade), but it's never too early to think, learn, and develop a goal. Ending up in a program depends a lot on: grades/scores/courses, baseball skills, luck (the type of luck you can influence through hard work and planning). Recognizing that your tastes may change as you get exposure to options you've never heard about, do you want warm weather, big school, rural, city, engineering, close to home, far from home, etc? Of those 300 programs, there is a wide variety of answers and the match of baseball skills and academic achievement can open lots of doors.
You can do a lot now to figure out what you like and don't like; if there are colleges in your area, visit; on family vacations, visit whatever colleges are convenient. Take a college tour (regular student). It may seem daunting in the beginning, but you'll get used to it and will soon be seeing colleges with an eye to you being a student there. Also, speak with your family about their financial condition - colleges can be incredibly expensive (well over 250k for four years) and finances play a huge role in college selection.
Third, your velo. There are so many variables, it's really too early to predict whether you'll top out at 99 or 82. Some guys your age, height, and weight, are on their way to 6' 9" and 280; others are full grown in 8th. Injuries derail players, lack of development derail players, lack of interest derail players. All you can do is continue to work, finding coaches who can develop you, mentor you, and take care of your arm.
Just keep working (hard, constant, dedicated) and enjoy HS.
Gavin crowley posted:hi. I'm in 8th grade, averaging around 81 MPH, and maxing out at 83-84. I'm 6'1, 160 pounds. I was wondering how hard I need to throw to go division 1 from this point. Also, how soon should I begin to look at colleges? I'm still young, in 8th grade.
Size & Velo sound really good for an 8th grader. Keep working hard, but just as importantly, work on your GPA & ACT. They will factor in BIG TIME!
You seem like you are well on your way. Keep up the good work, and keep us posted on your progress!
Buckeye 2015 posted:RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
I agree with your control assertion. Biggest difference this year for my son, was his control improvement.
Gavin crowley posted:hi. I'm in 8th grade, averaging around 81 MPH, and maxing out at 83-84. I'm 6'1, 160 pounds. I was wondering how hard I need to throw to go division 1 from this point. Also, how soon should I begin to look at colleges? I'm still young, in 8th grade.
Gavin, are you on a good travel team? When I say good I mean are they playing in high profile tournaments? Do they have a good history with connecting players to colleges? Are you with people of similar skill?
My son is 14u, he played in a PG event this past weekend that had one starting pitcher in the high 50's and another in the low 90's! There is a huge difference in this age. Make sure you are on a team that is going to get you ready for high school. Then when you get there you can talk to your travel coach and high school coach about what level college you should be looking at, and how to get in front of them.
Right now low 80's as an 8th grader is very exciting, keep your innings per year below 100 and get with a coach who can instruct you on shut down periods and which muscles to strengthen in your body to be able to keep yourself as healthy as possible.
Good advice here to which I will add:
TAKE CARE OF YOUR ARM!
The summer going into highschool, my son's team had 4 pitchers who could throw 80. Three of them are going to be pitching D1 next year, and the other will be at a solid D2. So, I would say your velocity is on track. As seniors they sit around 90.
As has been said you need to keep working hard and improving. It's a big jump from 80 to 90, especially if you are already close to physically mature.
Most importantly - grades. Every one of those pitchers is a good student, and one is going to an Ivy. There is way more academic money out there than athletic.
Great position to be in with current velo. BUT, because of that velo at your age, your Coaches will be looking to pitch you as much as they can get away with... Get your pitching instructor to help you define appropriate pitch count limits per game per week etc. Get your parents on the same page of those pitching limits so that they can help manage the health of your arm. Then talk about the limits with your club coach in a way that he's a partner in taking care of your arm. (He also wants to make sure you're healthy, but sometimes it's hard for a coach to manage limits when a game or tourney is on the line.)
Get seriously dialed into your arm care program (pregame and post game). As a pitcher your arm is your value, preserve it.
As Ryno mentioned above, get equally focused in the classroom. College coaches like good grades, they can say a lot about a players work ethic. Players with bad grades become roster issues; coaches don't want the headache. Good grades offer athletes more options. (better academic college possibilities, more scholarship dollars etc.,)
Good luck to you.
(Edit: typo)
As detailed in the thread I linked to, assuming you are a RHP, in the next 3 and 1/2 years, you need to add about 5 mph for mid-major -- sitting 86, touching 88-89 would match most of the kids. Probably about 8 mph for the very top Power 5 schools -- sitting 89, touching 91-92.
Your velocity is great for your age. How tall are your mother and father? Given where you are now if it's affordable your parents and you should look into the New England Ruffnecks.
Pretty cool to have a 14 year old asking these questions on his own behalf. I would imagine that you'll get some very good information from people here. I will add: pitching becomes a 7 day a week proposition, it has to be approached as a job. There is something within your program to do every day and when you have an "off" day it is to be OFF. Rest and recovery are as important, if not more important than chasing velocity. Learn how to locate, learn to command the changeup. Devote time to working on your moves to bases, have as many in your pocket as possible. At the right time, the right guy will appreciate that ability. Be the best at fielding your position and throwing to bases. Learn how to control your emotions, good and bad. Have the best body language while being a great teammate.
I know this response didn't answer your question, but with all of these characteristics you will so much more attractive when it's time to concentrate on pitching in college. Velocity will matter to a significant degree, especially if your a RHP, but a polished pitcher stands out and you have absolute control over the type of pitcher you want to become. You're velocity will be whatever it is. Good luck kid and throw strikes, unless you're trying to get them to chase.
Gavin, hope you've read this far. Don't let the questions scare you! You have time, and you have a nice start. Impressed that you shared here, and I hope you can find a smart coach who will help bring you along.
Watched Maryland vs Illinois on BTN the other day both pitchers in the low to mid 80s
Ditto on control. Gaining control doesn't mean pitch slower, though. We have just in the past couple of days had RC's express concern over his high school stats (and they always told me schools don't care about the high school stats) - 19 BB's in 19 IP. Not to mention the 7 HBP's. It's definitely been far worse than normal due to his early season injury and struggling with both arm slot and arm action changes, but it was a red flag for them.
Did the RC's see him pitch and express concern using the stats as justification? Or did they not see him pitch and just cited the stats? The latter would be pretty weak...
It doesn't surprise me, Root.
I believe that it is entirely rationale to discount good HS stats -- who knows the level of competition -- but that bad high school stats can be a red flag. So the hitter who is batting .500, well, it might mean nothing. But the batter who is striking out in 45% of his plate appearances is a bad sign, even if he is playing at the highest level of high school competition.
Baseball-Dad posted:Did the RC's see him pitch and express concern using the stats as justification? Or did they not see him pitch and just cited the stats? The latter would be pretty weak...
They had seen him in the past, but this year has been rife with speculation. He didn't pitch early because of the back pain and, while he didn't avoid anyone who asked what was wrong, he also didn't go out of his way to explain. So, at one point, I was warned by someone we know that many schools were speculating that he had an arm injury. With that also cam a lot of speculation concerning his somewhat unconventional mechanics, etc. Now that he is healthy and on the mound, they look at stats and start speculating again. The line is interesting. 19 IP, 19 BB's, 28 K's, 7 HBP and only 4 hits allowed. ERA went from 1.21 to 2.95 from his last outing - a very bad 1.2 IP.
It's also interesting how timing works in recruiting. Last year, at WWBA, he got his first start at Lake Point against a very good team (Twelve). He struck out the first two batters and then ran into control problems. There were probably 50-60 recruiters there including every school where there was interest either way, and I mean every single one. He looked bad and only topped out at 86. Really disappointing performance. Four days later, off site, he's sitting 87, hitting 88 consistently and mowing through the lineup with control. Nobody around. That's just the way it works, sometimes.
2019Dad posted:It doesn't surprise me, Root.
I believe that it is entirely rationale to discount good HS stats -- who knows the level of competition -- but that bad high school stats can be a red flag. So the hitter who is batting .500, well, it might mean nothing. But the batter who is striking out in 45% of his plate appearances is a bad sign, even if he is playing at the highest level of high school competition.
Yeah, I think they can rarely help you, but can easily hurt you. We have a stud 2019 on our team who committed to an SEC program last summer with a pretty good #. He just ended his high school season. .229 batting average. I wonder if his future school looks at that are ignores it. He is a guy with all the physical tools, though.
roothog66 posted:2019Dad posted:It doesn't surprise me, Root.
I believe that it is entirely rationale to discount good HS stats -- who knows the level of competition -- but that bad high school stats can be a red flag. So the hitter who is batting .500, well, it might mean nothing. But the batter who is striking out in 45% of his plate appearances is a bad sign, even if he is playing at the highest level of high school competition.
Yeah, I think they can rarely help you, but can easily hurt you. We have a stud 2019 on our team who committed to an SEC program last summer with a pretty good #. He just ended his high school season. .229 batting average. I wonder if his future school looks at that are ignores it. He is a guy with all the physical tools, though.
It wouldn't surprise me if it bothered them some, but I doubt it would be the only factor they would look at. It may cause them to want to see him in person again, but honestly, the high school season is such a small sample size for a hitter, I don't think his stats would matter much.
I don't think HS Stats matter a ton, but I would never totally discount them either. A walk an inning, and 7 HBP's in 19 innings would make a coach cautious. I am not nearly the stats guy that some are, but I can definitely tell you that I pay attention to walks. When my son is throwing good, he minimizes his walks, and his HBP's. Walks will absolutely kill you!
rynoattack posted:roothog66 posted:2019Dad posted:It doesn't surprise me, Root.
I believe that it is entirely rationale to discount good HS stats -- who knows the level of competition -- but that bad high school stats can be a red flag. So the hitter who is batting .500, well, it might mean nothing. But the batter who is striking out in 45% of his plate appearances is a bad sign, even if he is playing at the highest level of high school competition.
Yeah, I think they can rarely help you, but can easily hurt you. We have a stud 2019 on our team who committed to an SEC program last summer with a pretty good #. He just ended his high school season. .229 batting average. I wonder if his future school looks at that are ignores it. He is a guy with all the physical tools, though.
It wouldn't surprise me if it bothered them some, but I doubt it would be the only factor they would look at. It may cause them to want to see him in person again, but honestly, the high school season is such a small sample size for a hitter, I don't think his stats would matter much.
I don't think HS Stats matter a ton, but I would never totally discount them either. A walk an inning, and 7 HBP's in 19 innings would make a coach cautious. I am not nearly the stats guy that some are, but I can definitely tell you that I pay attention to walks. When my son is throwing good, he minimizes his walks, and his HBP's. Walks will absolutely kill you!
Not as much as hits, though. Guys who otherwise don't let the bat hit the ball can get way with more walks, like a young Randy Johnson, but, yeah, walks definitely hurt. I think the more concerned parties about the HBP's would be the next team we play. He's got a reputation. He throws hard, concentrates on pitching inside and comes high sometimes. The thing that makes me cringe is that 4 of those 7 HBP's have been head shots. Having seen that this year, I've really got to give a shout out to today's batting helmet manufacturers. Most of those guys took 88-89mph upside the head and trotted on down to first without even needing time to walk it off.
Gavin, did you have any more questions?
RJM posted:Your velocity is great for your age. How tall are your mother and father? Given where you are now if it's affordable your parents and you should look into the New England Ruffnecks.
My parents are not tall at all, 5'11 and 5'6, but I get my height from my moms 4 brothers, who are all 6'3+. One at 6'6. So I don't expect to get too much bigger, hoping to get one or two more inches. And I am very familiar with the Ruffnecks, they have an amazing program, but my age group's team is better. For some reason 14u Ruffnecks aren't as great as the others, although they are still a great team.
CaCO3Girl posted:Gavin crowley posted:hi. I'm in 8th grade, averaging around 81 MPH, and maxing out at 83-84. I'm 6'1, 160 pounds. I was wondering how hard I need to throw to go division 1 from this point. Also, how soon should I begin to look at colleges? I'm still young, in 8th grade.
Gavin, are you on a good travel team? When I say good I mean are they playing in high profile tournaments? Do they have a good history with connecting players to colleges? Are you with people of similar skill?
My son is 14u, he played in a PG event this past weekend that had one starting pitcher in the high 50's and another in the low 90's! There is a huge difference in this age. Make sure you are on a team that is going to get you ready for high school. Then when you get there you can talk to your travel coach and high school coach about what level college you should be looking at, and how to get in front of them.
Right now low 80's as an 8th grader is very exciting, keep your innings per year below 100 and get with a coach who can instruct you on shut down periods and which muscles to strengthen in your body to be able to keep yourself as healthy as possible.
Yes my travel team is pretty good. We enter many tournaments and we are going to Nashville this June.
Gov posted:Great position to be in with current velo. BUT, because of that velo at your age, your Coaches will be looking to pitch you as much as they can get away with... Get your pitching instructor to help you define appropriate pitch count limits per game per week etc. Get your parents on the same page of those pitching limits so that they can help manage the health of your arm. Then talk about the limits with your club coach in a way that he's a partner in taking care of your arm. (He also wants to make sure you're healthy, but sometimes it's hard for a coach to manage limits when a game or tourney is on the line.)
Get seriously dialed into your arm care program (pregame and post game). As a pitcher your arm is your value, preserve it.
As Ryno mentioned above, get equally focused in the classroom. College coaches like good grades, they can say a lot about a players work ethic. Players with bad grades become roster issues; coaches don't want the headache. Good grades offer athletes more options. (better academic college possibilities, more scholarship dollars etc.,)
Good luck to you.
(Edit: typo)
My arm health and stability is my #1 baseball concern. I won't throw at all if my arm doesn't feel right. Thankfully, my coaches are extremely attentive to my arm health, and they do a great job of managing it.
Buckeye 2015 posted:RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
Unfortunately I am a righty. I have wanted to be a left my whole life lol. My control is not perfect but it certainly isn't bad at all. I usually walk 1 or 2 if I throw a complete game. However, I tend to fall behind in counts sometimes and I am forced to come back. This rises my pitch count, but I normally get away with 90-95 pitches in a complete game. It's a little much, so I am working to get that down.
Gavin crowley posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
Unfortunately I am a righty. I have wanted to be a left my whole life lol. My control is not perfect but it certainly isn't bad at all. I usually walk 1 or 2 if I throw a complete game. However, I tend to fall behind in counts sometimes and I am forced to come back. This rises my pitch count, but I normally get away with 90-95 pitches in a complete game. It's a little much, so I am working to get that down.
Gavin, how many innings do you think you throw in a calendar year, like January-December?
Thanks everyone for the responses! I'm certainly looking into all of them!
88-90 on the right side 85-87 on the left. Also, you want to differentiate between. 'Sitting' 88 and ' Topping ' 90
A good scout or RC is looking at where a guy 'sits' as much or more than where he 'tops'
Keep in mind you do need the numbers on the gun to get looks from D1 schools but once you get there it's different . D1 coaches want guys that get 'outs'. That's it. I've seen 75 mph in D1 and 91 at D3. But ultimately , the radar gun numbers get you in the door. Getting outs regardless of velo gets you innings once you're there.
Gavin crowley posted:RJM posted:Your velocity is great for your age. How tall are your mother and father? Given where you are now if it's affordable your parents and you should look into the New England Ruffnecks.
s. And I am very familiar with the Ruffnecks, they have an amazing program, but my age group's team is better. For some reason 14u Ruffnecks aren't as great as the others, although they are still a great team.
Gavin, I highly suggest you open up another thread asking about what things are important in a travel team. I just looked at the Ruffnecks website and they have an extensive list of Alumni as well as a pretty impressive program setup. Im not sure if all these folks were brought up through the program or just played there for one year and left.
There is a world of difference between a good travel team and a program that is built to get kids in front of college recruiters. Over the years my son played for a good travel team. One that won many tournaments and was the team many teams did not want to face. We left the program for one that folks did not consider as good but really knew how to get the kids recruited. Thing is the second program had many players superior to other programs. They approached how the played the game differently. In addition they spent a good portion of their season playing in games as opposed to tourneys. Those games were setup in such a way that they drew many college recruiters. The other teams did not see this and only saw the team in tourneys at the end of the season, games in which we did not necessarily play to win but played to improve and get our kids recognized.
Gavin crowley posted:hi. I'm in 8th grade, averaging around 81 MPH, and maxing out at 83-84. I'm 6'1, 160 pounds. I was wondering how hard I need to throw to go division 1 from this point. Also, how soon should I begin to look at colleges? I'm still young, in 8th grade.
Gavin - I am not a pitcher's parent but what you've posted here seems mightily impressive. Here is a different way of evaluating things. Start attending college games at all levels and sit near or behind home plate. Most/many programs have someone charting pitches and they usually have a radar gun. Peak over their shoulder and see how fast guys are pitching. See how they locate their fast balls. Do they take a little off and add a little on to their fastball to keep hitters constantly off balance. Do they throw a straight change up, slider, curve ball?
Say you see someone with an impressive change up, after the game approach that player and ask him how he throws that pitch. Do likewise for other pitches. If no radar guns are available use your eyes and ears. Does the ball pop the catchers mitt? Do they appear to be throwing way harder than local high school pitchers that you admire?
You can attend showcases or college camps and they will give you advice about where you might project in the future. Heck, given your age, size and current velocity, they may even make an offer now. If not, maybe they can give you pitching advice so that when you have matured a bit more, you will be ready to turn their heads. I guess what I am really saying is you have the power to figure this all out on your own. Nobody here at the hsbbweb can predict future baseball things based off of a few written sentences on a message board.
Attending D1 games is good advice. Keep in mind a Rhode Island game (A10) will look different from a Boston College game (ACC). A mid week game with a #4 or #5 starter will look different than a Friday game with a #1.
joes87 posted:Gavin crowley posted:RJM posted:Your velocity is great for your age. How tall are your mother and father? Given where you are now if it's affordable your parents and you should look into the New England Ruffnecks.
s. And I am very familiar with the Ruffnecks, they have an amazing program, but my age group's team is better. For some reason 14u Ruffnecks aren't as great as the others, although they are still a great team.
Gavin, I highly suggest you open up another thread asking about what things are important in a travel team. I just looked at the Ruffnecks website and they have an extensive list of Alumni as well as a pretty impressive program setup. Im not sure if all these folks were brought up through the program or just played there for one year and left.
There is a world of difference between a good travel team and a program that is built to get kids in front of college recruiters. Over the years my son played for a good travel team. One that won many tournaments and was the team many teams did not want to face. We left the program for one that folks did not consider as good but really knew how to get the kids recruited. Thing is the second program had many players superior to other programs. They approached how the played the game differently. In addition they spent a good portion of their season playing in games as opposed to tourneys. Those games were setup in such a way that they drew many college recruiters. The other teams did not see this and only saw the team in tourneys at the end of the season, games in which we did not necessarily play to win but played to improve and get our kids recognized.
If you found the Ruffnecks alumni list then it should list the years they played in the program. Both my sons are alums of that program. Unlike some other area teams, they only field one team per age group and the kids play the entire season. Some clubs have lengthier alum lists but they count kids that may have only played a single weekend or very few games, and/or they run several teams per age. I wouldn't say which approach is better, just pointing out they can be very different. Ruffnecks guys are with the program all year, often starting with fall ball the previous fall, then winter workouts, then the lengthy summer schedule. They build a great deal of comradery and many friendships that both my boys enjoy years after being done with the program.
I'm not familiar with the Ruffnecks, but one thing I can tell you is with top flight Travel Programs, oftentimes their 14U and younger teams are only pretty good, mostly because families don't want to pay top dollar for travel ball prior to 15U. Then at 15U the best talent comes out of the woodwork to try out
The best Travel Program in the Wisconsin/Illinois border area is Hitters. They had two 1st Round MLB picks and one 2nd Round pick from just their 2017 class alone, along with a bunch of D1 commits etc etc.... relatively easier to make their 9U-14U teams. Extremely difficult to make their 15U/16U/17U teams. I would suspect that many of the top programs are like that nationwide. Go somewhere that has a track record of getting players signed or drafted.
3and2Fastball posted:I'm not familiar with the Ruffnecks, but one thing I can tell you is with top flight Travel Programs, oftentimes their 14U and younger teams are only pretty good, mostly because families don't want to pay top dollar for travel ball prior to 15U. Then at 15U the best talent comes out of the woodwork to try out
The best Travel Program in the Wisconsin/Illinois border area is Hitters. They had two 1st Round MLB picks and one 2nd Round pick from just their 2017 class alone, along with a bunch of D1 commits etc etc.... relatively easier to make their 9U-14U teams. Extremely difficult to make their 15U/16U/17U teams. I would suspect that many of the top programs are like that nationwide. Go somewhere that has a track record of getting players signed or drafted.
It's not just the talent comes out of the woodwork. The programs chase the talent. They've been tracking players at the lower levels when they were the competition.
i got to know a dad whose son played for one of the top 17u teams in the country. Our son's started playing against each other at 13u. Only four players from the 13u team made the 17u team.
3and2Fastball posted:I'm not familiar with the Ruffnecks, but one thing I can tell you is with top flight Travel Programs, oftentimes their 14U and younger teams are only pretty good, mostly because families don't want to pay top dollar for travel ball prior to 15U. Then at 15U the best talent comes out of the woodwork to try out
The best Travel Program in the Wisconsin/Illinois border area is Hitters. They had two 1st Round MLB picks and one 2nd Round pick from just their 2017 class alone, along with a bunch of D1 commits etc etc.... relatively easier to make their 9U-14U teams. Extremely difficult to make their 15U/16U/17U teams. I would suspect that many of the top programs are like that nationwide. Go somewhere that has a track record of getting players signed or drafted.
Very familiar with the Hitters program. My comments earlier about the best program for recruiting not necessarily being the best travel program were in relation to the team my son played on. They are a "companion" program to the Hitters down here in the western suburbs of Chicago. We played the Hitters a lot. Spent a good portion of my summer and fall weekends up at Nash park for the better part of a couple of years. My son's program and the Hitters are very similar, in fact those kids that don't play HS ball here play for the Hitters during the HS season as the WI HS season is played in the Summer.
These programs do not play in the normal summer tourneys here in Chicagoland or Southern WI. Instead they are playing against each other most of the season. When it comes to tourney time these programs may not stand out as a power program, as they have not played in and won a lot of summer tourneys. In addition they are used to managing the game in a different way and will sacrifice a win if they know it will get the kids more exposure.
joes87 posted:Gavin crowley posted:RJM posted:Your velocity is great for your age. How tall are your mother and father? Given where you are now if it's affordable your parents and you should look into the New England Ruffnecks.
s. And I am very familiar with the Ruffnecks, they have an amazing program, but my age group's team is better. For some reason 14u Ruffnecks aren't as great as the others, although they are still a great team.
Gavin, I highly suggest you open up another thread asking about what things are important in a travel team. I just looked at the Ruffnecks website and they have an extensive list of Alumni as well as a pretty impressive program setup. Im not sure if all these folks were brought up through the program or just played there for one year and left.
There is a world of difference between a good travel team and a program that is built to get kids in front of college recruiters. Over the years my son played for a good travel team. One that won many tournaments and was the team many teams did not want to face. We left the program for one that folks did not consider as good but really knew how to get the kids recruited. Thing is the second program had many players superior to other programs. They approached how the played the game differently. In addition they spent a good portion of their season playing in games as opposed to tourneys. Those games were setup in such a way that they drew many college recruiters. The other teams did not see this and only saw the team in tourneys at the end of the season, games in which we did not necessarily play to win but played to improve and get our kids recognized.
I was looking into the RuffNecks this past summer. Believe me, I read everything about their alumni, and teams this year. I wanted to play for them badly, unfortunately, their facilities are much too far, I did not want to ask for too much. I 100% know how much of an advantage it would be, but my travel team is also very good, and has a good recruitment reputation.
CaCO3Girl posted:Gavin crowley posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
Unfortunately I am a righty. I have wanted to be a left my whole life lol. My control is not perfect but it certainly isn't bad at all. I usually walk 1 or 2 if I throw a complete game. However, I tend to fall behind in counts sometimes and I am forced to come back. This rises my pitch count, but I normally get away with 90-95 pitches in a complete game. It's a little much, so I am working to get that down.
Gavin, how many innings do you think you throw in a calendar year, like January-December?
I know I threw 45 for travel, not sure for middle school. I probably threw a total of 75-80 innings. Arm health is my #1 concern.
Good luck Gavin. Please do your research or even post another question about innings pitched, pitches thrown, and general arm care. Lots of conflicting advice out there, but please form a plan on paper. Those are a lot easier to follow.
Are your parents, or perhaps an older sibling, helping you? Lots of information to sift through...I can't even imagine my 14 year old coming on here and asking anything, he's still trying to figure out which shirt best matches his work out shorts and how best to wear his glasses on his hat, lol!
If you have questions go ahead and ask them, it's why this board is here :-)
He's still trying to figure out which shirt best matches his work out shorts and how best to wear his glasses on his hat, lol!
This stuff matters. My son didn't get nicknamed "Hollywood" in high school without an effort. He nailed quiet, confident cool with a 10. 
Gavin crowley posted:CaCO3Girl posted:Gavin crowley posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:RHP or lefty? My son is at a mid-major D1.....there are plenty of guys throwing 85-86 on the teams he's played against over the past two years. 90+ will get you noticed by some bigger schools....especially if you're a lefty. Keep in mind velo isn't the only thing.....college umpires seem to be tighter with their strike zone than HS, so being able to control the velo is probably just as (if not more) important than just throwing hard. If you're at 83-84 as an 8th grader and have reasonable control....I'd say you've got a pretty good shot....that's easily the upper end of what 8th graders are throwing velocity wise.
Unfortunately I am a righty. I have wanted to be a left my whole life lol. My control is not perfect but it certainly isn't bad at all. I usually walk 1 or 2 if I throw a complete game. However, I tend to fall behind in counts sometimes and I am forced to come back. This rises my pitch count, but I normally get away with 90-95 pitches in a complete game. It's a little much, so I am working to get that down.
Gavin, how many innings do you think you throw in a calendar year, like January-December?
I know I threw 45 for travel, not sure for middle school. I probably threw a total of 75-80 innings. Arm health is my #1 concern.
Hi Gavin! Thanks for posting.
That's a lot of innings, but sometimes it is more important how the innings are spaced. I think you know what I mean. If you throw 2 innings on Friday, and then 4 more on Saturday, not the best. Look up the pitch smart guidelines. They are pretty good. What I do for my son is write down the date, # of innings and # of pitches. It helps to keep track.
Good luck and take care of that arm!
Hi Gavin. It sounds to me like your on the right track. Keep doing what you're doing and you'll be a stud!!!!!
I am watching the SEC tournament, Texas A&M pitcher is pretty consistent at 87-88 on the fastball...watch Miami vs. Georgia Tech earlier, pretty much the same. All this talk about 90+ in recruiting sure doesn't seem to translate on the field. As I speak Mizzou's Houck threw a 91 MPH FB and these announcers have really been talking him up.
Heard this in the stands at a recent game:
Scout1 "How'd he get this guy throwing 91?"
Scout2 "Recruited him when he threw 93."
(Don't forget to consider the huge difference in workload, pressure, and academics in college. Lots more innings the work horses throw when compared to HS; this time of year exhaustion sets in - think The Belmont's last 1/8 mile.)
90+ in recruiting is more of the reality all the time. More HS guys are throwing harder.
And it translates on the field. But I'll agree with Goosegg, way more innings thrown by many college guys than in high school. A schedule with 50+ games at D1...more than double what many high school schedules have. Add in the conditioning and weight training multiple times per week, academics and now finals, interstate travel, etc. My oldest is absolutely gassed right now.
SanDiegoRealist posted:I am watching the SEC tournament, Texas A&M pitcher is pretty consistent at 87-88 on the fastball...watch Miami vs. Georgia Tech earlier, pretty much the same. All this talk about 90+ in recruiting sure doesn't seem to translate on the field. As I speak Mizzou's Houck threw a 91 MPH FB and these announcers have really been talking him up.
I have to agree, as a challenge I want everyone to watch the CWS. ESPN has been doing a good job of broadcasting the early round gams. . My experience the last few years is that you won't see the 90+ guys until the final 8. You will see a few, but in the later rounds (final 8) is where the really show up.
From what I have been seeing across most levels is about a 4mph drop for cruising game velocity from max effort velocity. My guess would be college kids cruising at 88mph more than likely can touch 92mph.
So kid who can pump it up every now and than to 90mph in a BP will sit 86ish in a game.
That is true and makes a lot of sense. With my son being a pitcher I never pass on a chance to watch a pitcher on TV or in person, and I just don't see this 90+ much except for MLB, which is to be expected. People I've talked to say if a HS kid is 90+ he'll most likely be drafted, so I guess they are all in A or AA ball somewhere.
Nonamedad posted:That is true and makes a lot of sense. With my son being a pitcher I never pass on a chance to watch a pitcher on TV or in person, and I just don't see this 90+ much except for MLB, which is to be expected. People I've talked to say if a HS kid is 90+ he'll most likely be drafted, so I guess they are all in A or AA ball somewhere.
Just because you are drafted doesn't mean you accept. LHP touching 91 was drafted in like the 37th round last year from my sons HS, he opted for Auburn. This year LHP touching 93...pretty sure someone will throw his name out there but also pretty sure he's going to GA Tech.
Nonamedad, there are a lot more 90+ arms out there than you think. Just go to Perfect Game website and search the big tournament in Jupiter. There are over 100 kids topping at 90 and above. Now when you compare that number to the 1000s of kids playing HS baseball I guess it's not a lot. But I can assure you not all the 90+ guys are in professional baseball. My son's college team has 8 guys who ar consistently 90 or above. That doesn't mean every pitch is 90, but they hit 90 or above multiple times in an outing. We have at least 3 guys that can easily get 94-96. Don't let anyone fool you. Velo is what gets you noticed.
Check out Florida, Vandy or UNC pitchers. They are full of 90+ arms. I would go out on a limb and say all of them have at minimum a half dozen guys that pitch 90+.
That's exactly my point, you see these teams in Omaha regularly. My challenge for everyone is to watch the CWS regional and super regional games and we can all see when the majority of 90+ arms show up. We have the top 64 teams in the country, I'm betting it will be down to 16 before 50% are 90+.
I'm betting it will be down to 16 before 50% are 90+.
Are you you talking about teams or individual staffs? There is no way it gets to 16 before you see a 90+ arm as a starter. It may be that deep before you see 50% of the entire staff at 90%. But I guarantee you that almost every team that makes the tournament has at least 1 guy that is 90+. Im not trying to be argumentative and I have nothing to backup my assertion other than what I've seen with my own eyes. Every SEC team we have faced has had multiple 90+ arms. Most of the midweek teams have flashed a 90+ guy. Maybe you are talking about a different level. I have not watched anything other than D1 baseball. But unless the stadium scoreboards are off or ESPN is off, most all D1 (at least here in the south) schools have at minimum one 90+ arm. Just my observations.
As a follow up to the last post and to answer the original OP, I'm not stating you MUST throw 90 to play at a D1. All I can tell you is from my son's experience, if you don't have the plus velocity, you need pinpoint precision, a bulldog mentality or some other makeup factor that a college recruiter is looking for. My best advice would be to go watch a few games of any schools of interest. See with your own eyes the types of pitchers they recruit. This will give you the best idea of whether you could compete for playing time at that particular school. Even the programs with multiple 90+ arms also have multiple upper 80s guys. The question is, which of those guys are getting the bulk of the innings. The bottom line is the coach has to win and will use the guys that give him the best chance. The issue is you have to first show the coach something that will get you recruited before you ever have a chance to win a spot.
YoungGun mentioned Jupiter and the number of pitchers there throwing 90+. Here are the exact numbers:
Number of Pitchers: 926
Number of Pitchers Throwing 90+: 197 (21%)
Number of RHP Throwing 90+: 177 (25% of RHP)
Number of LHP Throwing 90+: 20 (9% of RHP) Special note - 15 of the 20 are exactly at 90.
As of a month after Jupiter (Data only for 2017 Pitchers):
Percentage of RHP throwing 90+ committed: 84%
Percentage of LHP throwing 90+ committed: 93% Only 1 had not committed
Velocity of RHP in which at least 50% of Pitchers were committed: 88 MPR
Velocity of LHP in which at least 50% of Pitchers were committed: 85 MPR
I hope that this is helpful.
Like YG says. You hit 90 and you get noticed. Kid at our HS consistent at 88/89. Not much interest. Gained 1mph to get to the magic number 90 and the calls came in. Kind of ridiculous really.
How hard do I have to throw to go D1? Or some variation of this topic is constantly being discussed.
For a RHP, generally speaking, you have to throw hard. And velocity is not the only benchmark, but it's a very important one.
PerfectGame is one data point. I know that not all players do PG events. My youngest is a college player and did not. My oldest was a D1 RHP / SS and only did one PG event.
That said, if I read PG profiles correctly, the average fastball for 2017 grads clocked by PG in 2017 is 82mph. 84mph would put a 2017 roughly in the top 45% in 2017. I'm not looking at all the data, but I'd swag 82-83mph would put a 2017 at the median fastball, i.e., the 50th percentile, in 2017.
2017 RHPs at or below the median of 82-83mph are generally not going to play Division 1 baseball as a pitcher. It's possible. Anything's possible. Generally, in my experience and IMHO, 87 - 89 mph is a decent starting point for the discussion of a D1 RHP. There are always exceptions.
87-89 sitting or touching? I find these discussions hard to follow becuse some people use max numbers and other use sitting number. And they can be 3-4mph apart
Knowing that the poster is in Rhode Island if he cruises 85-87 every New England D1 will be interested. BC will be a little less interested unless he has great command. They have to compete in the ACC.
Boston College, UMass, Holy Cross, Northeastern, Harvard, UMass Lowell, Maine, Dartmouth, Bryant, Rhode Island, Brown, UConn, Quinnipiac, Yale, Hartford, Central Connecticut, Sacred Heart and Fairfield.
The thing to understand is not all D1's are created equal. There are D2 programs who could put a beating on some of these programs. The best question is, "Where can I have the best baseball and academic experience based on my skill set?" A motivated player is always looking to improve his skill set.
Do college coaches look at projectability? Would a 16 year old sitting at 86 get looked at the same way as a 17 year old sitting at 88?
howdybaseball posted:Do college coaches look at projectability? Would a 16 year old sitting at 86 get looked at the same way as a 17 year old sitting at 88?
There are other factors. Size, body frame and year to year progression would be among them. The 16yo might have peaked pitching wise while the 17yo is just getting started.
So the answer is yes - they do look at projectability. Son is a skinny 16yo 2018 pitcher that throws 86-87 and he has some D1 schools that were interested in him but nothing concrete yet. Hoping this summer seals the deal for him.
"Do college coaches look at projectability? Would a 16 year old sitting at 86 get looked at the same way as a 17 year old sitting at 88?"
Too many variables to give a decent answer. RJM hit a few, but there are lots more pieces to the pitching puzzle.
This topic really gets beat to death here. Those trying to give players and parents a reality check share that a certain high level of velo is necessary to get serious interest/$$$ with top programs. Others (often, those with kids who don't throw quite as hard) throw out examples of guys throwing below that threshold and "doing just fine" with Big School U.
It's pretty simple. Velo is very desirable (we have also spent countless discussions explaining why). College coaches look for guys with either current velo or projected velo. That gets you the most interest and the most $$. Once you get on the field, lots of things can happen. Velo is successful. Projected velo is reached and is successful. Velo is good but the other guy that didn't get the $$ is getting more outs. PC's find that you are more effective throwing 2-seam at a cruising speed instead of max effort 4-seam. Velo is good but too straight, can't seem to adjust and create movement. Velo arm gets fatigued but this is still the most effective P to roll out. On and on. So, many of these college guys throwing 84-87 were either guys with better velo or projected better velo when recruited.
If your velo or projected velo doesn't stand out among a very large pool of very good pitchers out there, you will not get an offer that stands out from a top school. Of course, there are some exceptions but it would be foolish to latch on to those and set "recruiting interest" expectations from them.
I think, the main reason that 90 is a magic number is that, categorically speaking, the pool in the upper 80's is just so much larger than the pool in the low 90's. Simple as that.
Around_The_Horn posted:YoungGun mentioned Jupiter and the number of pitchers there throwing 90+. Here are the exact numbers:
Number of Pitchers: 926
Number of Pitchers Throwing 90+: 197 (21%)
Number of RHP Throwing 90+: 177 (25% of RHP)
Number of LHP Throwing 90+: 20 (9% of RHP) Special note - 15 of the 20 are exactly at 90.
As of a month after Jupiter (Data only for 2017 Pitchers):
Percentage of RHP throwing 90+ committed: 84%
Percentage of LHP throwing 90+ committed: 93% Only 1 had not committed
Velocity of RHP in which at least 50% of Pitchers were committed: 88 MPR
Velocity of LHP in which at least 50% of Pitchers were committed: 85 MPR
I hope that this is helpful.
Very helpful, correlates perfectly with what my eyes tell me. If you took those 197 players and gave each of the 300 D1 program 1, there would still be 33% +/- schools without a 90+ kid. As we know SEC schools like to stockpile these guys, so even fewer to go around for the other D1 programs.
Thats why when I watch BTN or the Big12 or PAC 12 baseball I will most likely see 2 kids sitting mid 80s. Makes perfect sense.
younggun posted:I'm betting it will be down to 16 before 50% are 90+.
Are you you talking about teams or individual staffs? There is no way it gets to 16 before you see a 90+ arm as a starter. It may be that deep before you see 50% of the entire staff at 90%. But I guarantee you that almost every team that makes the tournament has at least 1 guy that is 90+. Im not trying to be argumentative and I have nothing to backup my assertion other than what I've seen with my own eyes. Every SEC team we have faced has had multiple 90+ arms. Most of the midweek teams have flashed a 90+ guy. Maybe you are talking about a different level. I have not watched anything other than D1 baseball. But unless the stadium scoreboards are off or ESPN is off, most all D1 (at least here in the south) schools have at minimum one 90+ arm. Just my observations.
I can't speak for noname but the way I read that was 50% of all pitchers in all games. Not 50% of teams will have at least one guy who throws 90. It would be good for him to come back and clear that up!
FWP posted:younggun posted:I'm betting it will be down to 16 before 50% are 90+.
Are you you talking about teams or individual staffs? There is no way it gets to 16 before you see a 90+ arm as a starter. It may be that deep before you see 50% of the entire staff at 90%. But I guarantee you that almost every team that makes the tournament has at least 1 guy that is 90+. Im not trying to be argumentative and I have nothing to backup my assertion other than what I've seen with my own eyes. Every SEC team we have faced has had multiple 90+ arms. Most of the midweek teams have flashed a 90+ guy. Maybe you are talking about a different level. I have not watched anything other than D1 baseball. But unless the stadium scoreboards are off or ESPN is off, most all D1 (at least here in the south) schools have at minimum one 90+ arm. Just my observations.
I can't speak for noname but the way I read that was 50% of all pitchers in all games. Not 50% of teams will have at least one guy who throws 90. It would be good for him to come back and clear that up!
That's right 50 % of the pitchers on the teams. Both teams combined, So if we see 5 kids in a game total and 2 throw 90 that doesn't count, and it counts what is shown on TV, not PG numbers.
