When is enough, enough? How many chances should a player get before the player shows he just isn't on board with the program? In particular a kid who quit 1 one year, almost quit the second year because of not starting and questioned the coaching and sulked when he didn't start the next game recently. Decent talent but...
By the way the weather here in Georgia is perfect.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
Totally situational-dependent, and personality-dependent.
When is enough, enough? How many chances should a player get before the player shows he just isn't on board with the program? In particular a kid who quit 1 one year, almost quit the second year because of not starting and questioned the coaching and sulked when he didn't start the next game recently. Decent talent but...
By the way the weather here in Georgia is perfect.
When it starts to impact the team its time to cut him loose.
When is enough, enough? How many chances should a player get before the player shows he just isn't on board with the program? In particular a kid who quit 1 one year, almost quit the second year because of not starting and questioned the coaching and sulked when he didn't start the next game recently. Decent talent but...
By the way the weather here in Georgia is perfect.
Are you worried about your son?
Ok, ok...I know. Not funny. I'm guessing its someone on your son's team. But what if it was your son? Knowing everything you know about this situation...which may include family issues or other? What would you do?
There have been times when I've given my own kids tons of chances...and times when I did not. I think Batty67 has it about right. Its "situational" and if you don't like whatever is happening in this case, you've got choices yourself...with your own son. 
As odd as it may sound on a baseball website, youth baseball isn’t really about baseball…..
The farther I get away from the day to day baseball saturation we all had (have) with our sons, I see that in the end the baseball does not matter that much. What really matters is character development, learning to be a teammate, learning to deal with adversity, learning to deal with success, with failure, with unfair situations, learning to deal with all of the things that come with life.
Baseball, it’s just a vehicle.
Relax dad, don’t get too worked up, it’s none of your business let the coaches deal with it, they have a lot more insight than you do, plus 5 years from now it won’t matter.
I think it may be presumptuous to assume the OP is a flustered dad. I think he might be a high school coach asking a sincere question and looking for sincere advice.....which Batty and Standball have provided.
If I am wrong I guess I will find out soon.
I think it may be presumptuous to assume the OP is a flustered dad. I think he might be a high school coach asking a sincere question and looking for sincere advice.....which Batty and Standball have provided.
If I am wrong I guess I will find out soon.
That was my assumption that it was a HS player.
Coach asking about a player.
OK my bad.
Sounds like it’s time for a one on one sit down and lay out your expectations. Be specific. If he conforms then he is part of the team, and if not, he is off. I would not make it too complex. (assuming it is HS ball) If the kid comes back the following year, then great. Kids mature and change a lot during HS. I know my son’s team had kids quit and comeback the following years for a whole bunch of reasons.
I know one particular very talented kid on my son’s HS team was kicked off, but he had a lot of personal issues at home and the team and coaches knew it, the team voted to let him back (after a long discussion with the coaches) and he conformed the rest of the year. (more or less)
Coach asking about a player.
My answer would still be essentially the same when I said (in part),
...But what if it was your son? Knowing everything you know about this situation...which may include family issues or other? What would you do?
There have been times when I've given my own kids tons of chances...and times when I did not. I think Batty67 has it about right. Its "situational"...
I often find if I'm talking to a young employee of ours, treating them like my son/daughter is both greatly appreciated and helps me to deliver better thought out advice.
Does the kid have issues outside of baseball complicating everything? Family issues? Does he have a mentor outside of the baseball team? Does he consider you a mentor? How will this impact him in life in general? Does it push him further off the deep end? Or does he 'need' a swift kick in the pants? Or a little of both?
These are just some of the questions I'd be asking myself when deciding what to do. I'd also consider sitting down and just having a heart-to-heart with him. You may learn reasons you had no idea about.
Good luck! Might be an opportunity for some good stuff!
You need to talk with the kid and find out if the issues go deeper than baseball. There may be something impacting his life going on in the classroom or home. Sometimes kids act out for attention when they feel no one will listen to them or understand what they are feeling. Even if this is the case, after listening you need to define acceptable baseball behavior.
You need to talk with the kid and find out if the issues go deeper than baseball. There may be something impacting his life going on in the classroom or home. Sometimes kids act out for attention when they feel no one will listen to them or understand what they are feeling. Even if this is the case, after listening you need to define acceptable baseball behavior.
100% Agree. A lot of coaching is outside the diamond.
How does he relate to the other players? Is he a good teammate? A hustler? A little bit of emotions and some sulking can be tolerated for some younger players but if it habitual yank him aside and give him an ultimatum -- shape up or ship out.
A mentor doesn't mean you have to be a psychologist. Most young men WANT a strong male presence in their life.
In many programs, the answer is: it depends on how talented he is.
It's just the way the world works.
As a business owner, when I have a troublesome employee, I have more tolerance for above-average producers than for run-of-the-mill guys. Not saying I'm a tolerant person by nature; but I have more tolerance. Because the goal is making money.
BTW, as a baseball coach, I'm not similar to most programs, or to my business methods. I don't cut extra slack for talented players. Because the goal is building team chemistry.
IMO, the player mentioned in the original post has gotten at least one too many chances, if not two.
The player has had many chances to prove he is a team player and every time he isn't playing he becomes a cancer, when he plays he is a good leader. I have had one to one talks and laid out my expectations for 3 years now. Not to mention the player is an average player who can't hit well. I hate when kids quit and I hate kicking kids off because I know how much baseball means to me but when is enough, enough? There are only so many times you can extend a hand before it becomes pointless. IMO.
I wish every kid accepted his role on the team but unfortunately that is not realistic. Obviously every kid wants to play but when a kid becomes a cancer to a team because of his lack of playing time, seems to me that the kid isn't buying into the program and might need to find another sport.
So, you've spoken to him many times over the years, given him a chance and he continues with this behavior. I don't think you have much of a choice if it is affecting the team's attitude and performance. Focus on what is best for the team.
One of my biggest regrets as a youth travel ball coach was not telling our best player to go home before the 11U AAU Championship Game @ Disney. The kid was acting up all season (one of my coaches didn't want to take him, and I should have listened), and I had to speak to him and his Dad regularly. Let's just say the apple didn't fall far from the tree. The player quit on the team before the national semi-finals, and I talked his Dad into turning their car around to come finish the tournament. Huge mistake, and I blame myself. Thankfully, my wife reminds me of that mistake from time to time. When I reflected on the season, our kids actually played better without our best player. It is a lesson I've seen play out over the years time and time again through high school and college baseball teams. Team chemistry is everything IMHO.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.
Removing a kid from the team should be the hardest thing you do even if it is the right thing to do. I'm a huge fan of giving kids several chances but at the end of the day if you can honestly say you tried then pull the trigger. I'm a firm believer in we might be the only stable influence in their life and life lessons are more important than winning baseball (or any sport) games. But when that one (or several) are so negative that the lesson now turns into teaching the other guys on the team that you can do anything you want without serious repercussions you're doing it for the wrong reasons. The problem is where is that line for an absolute decision to be made? Only you can make that decision because you know you're kids.
From what you've posted my guess is you're at that line and it needs to be done. Sometimes that life lesson is to show them that life will move on without them. That will be the "aha" event which makes it click and they figure it out.......or it doesn't phase them and they place their failures on you. If they are the latter then I really doubt they will figure it out ever.
If it gets to the point where removing a kid from a team becomes easy then you need to get out. But I suspect you're nowhere near there.
Good luck
life lessons are more important than winning baseball (or any sport) games.
Absolutely.
When you get rid of a bad apple sooner rather than later, you impart a lasting life lesson to the other 14 players.
Three strikes and you're out? Three is too many.
Two strikes, at the most. For the good of the TEAM.
BOF your post was awesome. Because it was the truth. And in this world that seems to be harder and harder to find. Great post man.
You treat him the way you would treat your own son. You coach him just like he was your own son. What is the real goal here? What is your real goal as a coach? What's really important? Is it to prove your the boss and your going to prove who is in charge? Or are you going to shape, change, mold, motivate, inspire, encourage, etc etc? What have you lost by doing everything in your power to help this kid figure it out? What have you gained by giving up on him?
You know many kids act the way they do because they don't believe any one believes in them. They have issues at play we don't have a clue about. I have never given up on a young man. Never. I have cut players. I have kicked players off my teams. But I never given up on a player. Heck I even cut my own son one year. But I never gave up on him.
Remove the baseball from the equation. Remove the team issues from it. Remove your feelings from it. Sit down with the young man and try to find out who he is. What he is about. And what is going on with him. Find that thing that makes him tick and then make him tick. You will find the reward when this happens will be far greater than any game you will ever win. JMO - But go the extra mile. The same way you would want someone to go the extra mile for your own son.
Coach May,
I value your opinions. I have saved many of your posts in an email file.
But I find your latest post confusing.
"I have never given up on a young man. Never. I have cut players. I have kicked players off my teams. But I never given up on a player"
I give a huge amount of time and energy to my players. But it's a finite amount. It's not unlimited. I'm also devoted to work and family.
Considering the limits on time and energy, please be more explicit about what it means to never give up on a player after you've kicked him off your team.
_____________
Edited to say: Just re-read you last paragraph, which answers my question.
life lessons are more important than winning baseball (or any sport) games.
Absolutely.
When you get rid of a bad apple sooner rather than later, you impart a lasting life lesson to the other 14 players.
Three strikes and you're out? Three is too many.
Two strikes, at the most. For the good of the TEAM.
Well said.
The other players are talking...maybe not to the coach but each other. And they see how a single player gets chance after chance while they are good teammates.
I assume this player is at least in their mid-teens. We're not talking about a 10YO.
Time to cut bait. You have done all you can coach.
