How much does having the sign help a hitter?

some hitters don't like to know what's coming, but many hitters can hit a bullet if they know it's coming. if it wasn't a big deal they wouldn't worry so much about stealing signs.

quote:

Originally posted by dusty delso:
some hitters don't like to know what's coming, but many hitters can hit a bullet if they know it's coming. if it wasn't a big deal they wouldn't worry so much about stealing signs.

Is it a big deal because it makes a big difference or because people THINK it makes a big difference? In my experience, the AVERAGE HS player can’t even square it up very well in BP, so I can’t see them doing much better in a game where everything isn’t geared to help them hit the ball, even if they were told the pitch type and location, and the pitcher could execute perfectly.

A lot

The better the hitter, the more it matters to know what is coming.

quote:

Originally posted by baseballpapa:
The better the hitter, the more it matters to know what is coming.

I can go along with that easily enough. So now I guess the question becomes, out of a lineup of 9 HS players, how many are really going to benefit enough to warrant spending the time to make it possible?

Just for the sake of ease, how about we eliminate all non-varsity players from consideration? That leaves us approximately 16,000 teams X 9 players in the lineup or about 144,000 starting HSV players. So out of the 9 players chosen to start and hit, what percentage would warrant spending the time?

I think it would surely vary from team to team, but I can’t see an average of more than 1 player on every team reaping much of a benefit. If I’m correct, it boils down to the same thing these things always boil down to. If you’ve got 4 or 5 players who could really benefit, you spend the time. Anything less than that, IMHO its just not worth all the time and trouble.

It makes a whole lot of difference. 2-0,3-1 fastball counts? Good hitters feast on those counts. Because they usually look for a fastball and they get one.

For every player at every level, it makes a difference. I've done hitting drills with 6 yr olds up through early college players. When you drill with a steady speed and movement, performance is at level x. When you drill with varied speeds and movement, performance is less than x. Period. Remember the saying...
"Hitting is timing, pitching is disrupting the hitter's timing". Very true.

Now, that is assuming you are 100% sure you have the signs. HS signs should be at least complex or disguised enough (i.e.- include indicators and wipes) that this should rarely happen.

quote:

Is it a big deal because it makes a big difference or because people THINK it makes a big difference? In my experience, the AVERAGE HS player can’t even square it up very well in BP, so I can’t see them doing much better in a game where everything isn’t geared to help them hit the ball, even if they were told the pitch type and location, and the pitcher could execute perfectly.

What does make a a HUGE difference to a good hitter, even at the HS level, is knowing that a FB is coming! If a good hitter can look "Dead Red" without any doubts, he WILL have a field day...

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

quote:

Originally posted by baseballpapa:
The better the hitter, the more it matters to know what is coming.

I can go along with that easily enough. So now I guess the question becomes, out of a lineup of 9 HS players, how many are really going to benefit enough to warrant spending the time to make it possible?

Just for the sake of ease, how about we eliminate all non-varsity players from consideration? That leaves us approximately 16,000 teams X 9 players in the lineup or about 144,000 starting HSV players. So out of the 9 players chosen to start and hit, what percentage would warrant spending the time?

I think it would surely vary from team to team, but I can’t see an average of more than 1 player on every team reaping much of a benefit. If I’m correct, it boils down to the same thing these things always boil down to. If you’ve got 4 or 5 players who could really benefit, you spend the time. Anything less than that, IMHO its just not worth all the time and trouble.

Now your question makes absolutely no sense to me.

Oversimplified, but to succeed at the plate you have to do 3 things: pick a good pitch to hit, make a good swing, and time the pitch correctly. If you know what pitch is coming you've practically eliminated 33% of the equation.

Doesn't mean every kid who knows a fastball is coming is going to **** all over it, but being able to look for only one pitch helps immensely.

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
...how many are really going to benefit enough to warrant spending the time to make it possible?

What exactly are you spending time doing? We have kids on the bench trying to pick signs during the game, but we don't waste allotted practice time on it.

If I was in a slump I wanted to know everything there was to know about the next pitching coming - type, speed, location, movement. If I wasn't in a slump I never thought for one second about what was coming. See the ball, hit the ball.

It's such an individual thing I doubt you will get a valid percentage or study to even conduct.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
Now your question makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why not? All I’m asking is, where’s the cutoff? Almost everyone agrees that it’s the better hitters who will benefit, and I’m trying to get a handle on the percentage of hitters it will help. If there’s no one on the team that could be considered a “good” hitter, it would make more sense to spend time on improving their fundamentals than worrying about stealing signs.

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
What does make a a HUGE difference to a good hitter, even at the HS level, is knowing that a FB is coming! If a good hitter can look "Dead Red" without any doubts, he WILL have a field day...

Are you saying he’ll not only do better, but perhaps double or triple his success and production?

That’s an interesting concept, but I don’t know of any way to test it in the real world because 1st there would need to be an agreement on what a “good” HS hitter is, and 2nd there would have to be agreement on what a “field day”, or rather success was.

Coming to such agreements is nearly impossible, which is why these things are so difficult to resolve.

quote:

Originally posted by coach2709:
If I was in a slump I wanted to know everything there was to know about the next pitching coming - type, speed, location, movement. If I wasn't in a slump I never thought for one second about what was coming. See the ball, hit the ball.

It's such an individual thing I doubt you will get a valid percentage or study to even conduct.

That pretty much exemplifies why asked the question. People TEND to jump to some pretty big conclusions when talking baseball, but conclusions aren’t always valid because the individuals seldom think alike.

Time? it takes about 1 minute to explain how we relay signs from 2nd if they are simple.
it takes another minute if they are hanging them out for 3rd or 1st base coach to see.

we discuss this when we have a rainy day and we are stuck inside....

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

quote:

Originally posted by Prime9:
Now your question makes absolutely no sense to me.

Why not? All I’m asking is, where’s the cutoff? Almost everyone agrees that it’s the better hitters who will benefit, and I’m trying to get a handle on the percentage of hitters it will help. If there’s no one on the team that could be considered a “good” hitter, it would make more sense to spend time on improving their fundamentals than worrying about stealing signs.

STATS; if the basis for asking the question was to determine whether time is best spent stealing signs or teaching fundamentals, at the HS level, I'd advocate teaching fundamentals always.

There are some things in life that you can't quantify, like are blonds, brunettes or red heads the best looking? Your question is probably another. As you leave HS, you will witness that every position player handles an average FB. They may not be able to cope with exceptional heat; mid to high 90's. The best hitters, however, can and much prefer that pitch to any other (generally speaking).

That being said, if a "good" advanced hitter, can eliminate off-speed pitches from his thinking when facing a hard thrower, or knows it is coming (because pitcher is tipping his pitches, or he has the sign) he will fare better than his best average.

As you say, no way to quantify it. But, the higher you go, the bigger the perceived advantage is thus the finely developed art of stealing signs.

Can you teach a hitter to predict his pitch?

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Bob Williams:
Can you teach a hitter to predict his pitch?

Bob

I'm going to say no to this but I think you can teach a hitter to understand tendencies or what counts is typically a certain pitch to be thrown. But to predict the pitch - no.