How short should a swing be vs. how long it should be.

Does a short swing, mean a quick swing? If so, why are you giving up power?

I always thought that the longer the swing, the more power you can put into it. Swinging from the heels versus trying to make contact kind of thing.

Was I wrong?

Plus scouts love kids that can drive it out. Why draft a singles guy in HS when you can get a HR guy?

I can def be mistaken. But doesn't everybody love the long ball guys? And if this is even close to being right, why teach a short swing? Who does it help in HS? Isn't it better to hit 10 out and hit 350 than hit 500 and only hit out 1 or 2?

When I hear stay short I think of keeping the hands inside the ball and not let the hands start to wrap around the ball, but once the bat gets into the strike zone then you want to extend the arms and keep the bat in the zone as long as possible, driving the ball and making backspin.

backspin+solid bat speed=POWER

Doughnutman;

When I hear a H.S. Coach preach "short swing" he, in our case, is describing a quick "hands to the ball approach." It seems many of them like to see that very quiet approach, not much "load" but just take the "knob to the ball."

Is that what they want? Applied across their line-up it seems to be a linear style, stay inside and just make good contact with your metal missle launcher.

We spent years "re-tooling" my sons's approach from that to a swing where he could really drive the baseball with a wood bat .... which is as you say, absolutely desirable if he wants to be a College position player or aspire to pro ball. His H.S. coach spent one full year trying to change him and one other hitter that uses the same (attack with the lower half) Pro Hitting Coach. He finally, do to their success, decided not to mess with what worked. The result, they will likely win their 2nd consecutive State High School Championship with pretty much the same line-up, and will set school Individual and Team records in most all power categories!

NOw back to the short swing, you still want a short but powerful path to ball. A truly long swing (we will get into semantics again, here) is not desirable no matter if you have linear or rotational mechanics.

I agree with you in your observations and premise though.

It is my understanding that you want a swing that is quick and efficient, combined with power being generated from the core and legs.

A quick swing, as Prime9 stated, does not require a linear singles/doubles approach.

You can be/and want to be quick with the hands, yet powerful with your lower half.

The key is to have a short and long swing.You want to be short to the zone but long through it.

The best power hitters are extrememly short to the zone but are able to keep the bat in the zone.

Do you consider Pujols swing short?

These terms can't be defined by anyone, therefore they can't be taught.

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These terms can't be defined by anyone, therefore they can't be taught.

I understand what you mean by your former statement but can't agree with the latter. But to the essence of what you are saying, I'm not convinced that you can teach the mechanics of a great swing to all (I certainly haven't been able to) ...... if so, I guess they all would have one!

So, touche' Misure Sultan..

If you have the ability to work with an instructor long enough, you will learn the instructors language. Then you will be able to define terms and they can be taught.

Just this year my son's hitting instructor remarked that he and my son were able to have detailed, in depth discussions on hitting after 4 years of working together, as PEERS. He (my son) learned well. This allows him to talk hitting with his instructor and analyze at bats over the phone.

Your point is a good one Sultan, but can be overcome with a seasoned instructor with a plan and a student with a long term commitment.

Sultan, we're thinking alike on this one. Can anyway show examples of a pro "short" swing vs a pro "long" swing. Makes my head spin a little bit haha

Hmmmm. Short and long swings probably can't be exactly defined. But I do know that long swings can be recognized by all. Think video. Think frames. Most videos record at 30 frames a second. A lot of software out there that can break those frames down even further. Great hitters, both male and female, will swing within a very specific, and very common, frame count.

Prime,
What was your son being taught(the correct way), if you do not mind sharing

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These terms can't be defined by anyone, therefore they can't be taught.

Words of wisdom.....An oasis in the desert....

Just like rotational and linear...No such things....

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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These terms can't be defined by anyone, therefore they can't be taught.

Words of wisdom.....

Just like rotational and linear...No such things....

You never watch fastpitch softball, I take it.

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You never watch fastpitch softball, I take it.

More then you could ever know...

I shall expand a bit....

A rotational swing and a linear swing do not exist...

Or, shall I say, MLB hitters don't swing with either....

This is something I have always agreed with BlueDog 100%

So, Blue Dog, you are saying that fastpitch hitters don't use a linear swing?

I think I agree. The terms, accompanying definitions/labels, and promoters of both, do exist.

I am no expert. In my somewhat rudimentary hitting vocabulary and knowledge base, believe elements of both are present in an advanced swing. Perhaps it should be "labeled" differently? Perhaps the the terms "swing" and "force" when coupled with the terms rotational and linear, are the problem in clarity?

Some thoughts...

When talking about being "short to the ball", are we talking about being direct? Direct with what and when?

When talking "long to the ball", are we then talking about being indirect? Indirect with what? Does long mean slow?

Alot of short vs long has to do with your lead elbow. If the leaqd elbow drags around the ball, its long. If its pulled down to the ball, its much shorter. In order for a guy with a long swing to turn on hard inside fastballs (with + V-LO), he must be timing it. If thats the case, he will struggle on off speed pitches.

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Originally posted by Blue Collar Baseball:
Alot of short vs long has to do with your lead elbow. If the leaqd elbow drags around the ball, its long. If its pulled down to the ball, its much shorter. In order for a guy with a long swing to turn on hard inside fastballs (with + V-LO), he must be timing it. If thats the case, he will struggle on off speed pitches.

Please show me a video of a MLB hitter that pulls down on their lead elbow.

I thought this was a pretty good explanation of rotational vs linear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML21-_Z1JbA

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Originally posted by 1baseballdad:
I thought this was a pretty good explanation of rotational vs linear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML21-_Z1JbA

The "linear" movement forward has nothing to do with a "linear" swing, and he further confuses people by saying this.

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The "linear" movement forward has nothing to do with a "linear" swing, and he further confuses people by saying this.

Epstein's video describes the understanding most have of the difference. Which camp is confused? So, Sultan, are you saying that Epstien's explanation is flawed because it's an incorrect description of the differences. Or, are you saying as Blue Dog seems to be, that they neither rotational or linear swings/mechanics/movement (whatever word you choose to describe) exist?

Would it be possible to just lay it all out there? Why isn't rotation of the bottom half not rotational, and why is taking the hands direct to the ball not linear? Why must we cloud the issue and talk about the bat path? Why is a linear stride to the ball, if it's used, not allowed to be considered linear? Yea, after all that non-logic, I admit, I'm confused.

The problem exists because people are convinced that a swing needs to be either entirely linear, or entirely rotational.

When we hear of discussions about "Sequensing" and "Core" and "Hands" and "Wrists" and "Legs" and "Lower Half", then "Upper Half", or "opening up too soon", these are all discriptions of significant aspects of a swing.

A high level swing is smooth and incorporates many different aspects and seperate skills to be attained.

I believe that a high level swing is neither "Rotational" exclusively nor "Linear" exclusively. But it is the coordinated effort syncronized by the player to allow all the energy his body is capable of producing and directing that energy to the sweet spot on a bat where he makes contact with a ball.

To try to oversimplify what is a very complicated endevor does not give adequete credit to what the player, who through some God given skillsets combined with years of hard work and dedication, is able to accomplish.

Aspects of a swing can be taught, some focus on rotational, some although not many focus on linear.

When you have a player that can put it all together and who has the ability to "read a pitch" to determine location in the hitting zone, and who has the arm and wrist strength to hold off at the last fractional second as an excellent pitch exhibits late movement, and who has the overall core and leg strength to take a pitchers mistake for a ride, then you have something special.

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I shall expand a bit....

A rotational swing and a linear swing do not exist...

Or, shall I say, MLB hitters don't swing with either....

The definition of shall is 'something that will exist or take place in the future'. We are still waiting...do you have an estimate on when the future might transition to the present?

Remember, it's your decision if you wanna learn, or not....

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Remember, it's your decision if you wanna learn, or not....

I have not forgotten.

Communication is defined as a conveyence of information. I have learned from you that there is no such thing as a rotational or linear swing. I disagree and have seen both. Please specifically convey your reasons for making that statement. So few words, so little information...

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Originally posted by MVSquared:

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Remember, it's your decision if you wanna learn, or not....

I have not forgotten.

Communication is defined as a conveyence of information. I have learned from you that there is no such thing as a rotational or linear swing. I disagree and have seen both. Please specifically convey your reasons for making that statement. So few words, so little information...

agreed

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I disagree and have seen both

Only if you've also seen the tooth fairy.....And, you just might say you have...

BlueDog,

What do you think of the verbal cue "long to short"? (As opposed to "short to long".)

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Only if you've also seen the tooth fairy.....And, you just might say you have...

Actually, I see the tooth fairy everytime I look in the mirror. I take on that role whenever one of my children loses a tooth. That might be the most lucid comment I've read in one of your posts.

I am still waiting for a conveyence of information regarding the topic.

I believe I covered your question in my post.

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I believe that a high level swing is neither "Rotational" exclusively nor "Linear" exclusively. But it is the coordinated effort syncronized by the player to allow all the energy his body is capable of producing and directing that energy to the sweet spot on a bat where he makes contact with a ball.

More commonly referred to as the "kinetic link, or generating force kinetically, more commonly kinetic force. This isn't new verbage in the generation of power which uses both commonly referenced means of delivery; linear and rotational.

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Remember, it's your decision if you wanna learn, or not....

True and furthermore, if you want to learn go to a proven source of knowledge.