I was at extra innings yesterday and there was a minor league player throwing to me at high 70's-low 80's and i didn't hit not one of them. I was swinging extremely late.Sow how do i catch up to those speeds?
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baseball secret revealed: start sooner
Practice---Practice---Practice
The good hitters spend hours in the cage---yes they may get fooled the first time by heat but the second at bat will be a different story
And the speeds you are talking about are nothing close to what is ahead of you
The good hitters spend hours in the cage---yes they may get fooled the first time by heat but the second at bat will be a different story
And the speeds you are talking about are nothing close to what is ahead of you
Have to disagree with Sultan here. Starting sooner will make you a sucker for anything off speed.
First, you were indoors, I take it? Understand that indoor lighting is often not very good. This can slow your reaction time and also hinder your ability to square the ball up. So, don't sweat it too much. Low 80's is pretty fast for BP indoors at the HS level.
Practice of course helps. Repetition speeds reaction.
Tips I would give:
Make sure you're using a bat that's right for you. You don't mention your age. Most young kids think they're big stuff if they use a larger bat than they should. Slow bat speed is exposed by faster pitches, also by quality off speed stuff.
Also, ask your coach for tips on whether you have excess motion in your swing. A long, hitchy or complicated swing is a slow reaction swing. Work on shortening your stroke.
Finally, fight your instincts and train yourself. Human nature is that when the pitcher's throwing harder than you're used to, you swing harder. Work to relax yourself and instead of trying to swing sooner, faster or harder, just lay the barrel to the ball and let the pitcher's power work for you. As you start making contact you'll be able to whip the bat more and more to provide some juice of your own as well.
First, you were indoors, I take it? Understand that indoor lighting is often not very good. This can slow your reaction time and also hinder your ability to square the ball up. So, don't sweat it too much. Low 80's is pretty fast for BP indoors at the HS level.
Practice of course helps. Repetition speeds reaction.
Tips I would give:
Make sure you're using a bat that's right for you. You don't mention your age. Most young kids think they're big stuff if they use a larger bat than they should. Slow bat speed is exposed by faster pitches, also by quality off speed stuff.
Also, ask your coach for tips on whether you have excess motion in your swing. A long, hitchy or complicated swing is a slow reaction swing. Work on shortening your stroke.
Finally, fight your instincts and train yourself. Human nature is that when the pitcher's throwing harder than you're used to, you swing harder. Work to relax yourself and instead of trying to swing sooner, faster or harder, just lay the barrel to the ball and let the pitcher's power work for you. As you start making contact you'll be able to whip the bat more and more to provide some juice of your own as well.
This is a great topic.
To put the question another way: how can you tell if a HS hitter has the kind of swing that will succeed at the faster speeds of college ball?
To put the question another way: how can you tell if a HS hitter has the kind of swing that will succeed at the faster speeds of college ball?
All pitchers are "time guys". That is to say all pitchers will deliver a FB in x amount of seconds from their first movement and you must find when you need to start your swing in order to get the bat in the zone in order to square up a pitch.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Have to disagree with Sultan here. Starting sooner will make you a sucker for anything off speed.
First, you were indoors, I take it? Understand that indoor lighting is often not very good. This can slow your reaction time and also hinder your ability to square the ball up. So, don't sweat it too much. Low 80's is pretty fast for BP indoors at the HS level.
Practice of course helps. Repetition speeds reaction.
Tips I would give:
Make sure you're using a bat that's right for you. You don't mention your age. Most young kids think they're big stuff if they use a larger bat than they should. Slow bat speed is exposed by faster pitches, also by quality off speed stuff.
Also, ask your coach for tips on whether you have excess motion in your swing. A long, hitchy or complicated swing is a slow reaction swing. Work on shortening your stroke.
Finally, fight your instincts and train yourself. Human nature is that when the pitcher's throwing harder than you're used to, you swing harder. Work to relax yourself and instead of trying to swing sooner, faster or harder, just lay the barrel to the ball and let the pitcher's power work for you. As you start making contact you'll be able to whip the bat more and more to provide some juice of your own as well.
The key is learning the mechanics that give you the ability to start your swing, but not commit to swing. That, fellas, is the difference between making it and not making it in this game.
quote:Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
This is a great topic.
To put the question another way: how can you tell if a HS hitter has the kind of swing that will succeed at the faster speeds of college ball?
One has early batspeed and the other doesn't.
hm...just see it and hit it. that's what always has worked for me and still does.
quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Have to disagree with Sultan here. Starting sooner will make you a sucker for anything off speed.
Confucious suggest clarification to baseball secret:
Start stride (weight shift) sooner, not swing. Foot must be down before ball is halfway to plate.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
Have to disagree with Sultan here. Starting sooner will make you a sucker for anything off speed.
Confucious suggest clarification to baseball secret:
Start stride (weight shift) sooner, not swing. Foot must be down before ball is halfway to plate.
I don't think so! I think Confucius was a Kung Fu guy.
Whenever I face a guy throwing hard I always load earlier. I don't commit myself to swing just get "ready" to swing earlier. A buddy of mine roped a kid throwing 93 because he just loaded earlier. Also, just getting used to the speed usually helps.
If I were to face a guy throwing low 80s then face something throwing low 90s, the low 90s would be real difficult to catch up with. However, if I were to see the low 90s consistently I would probably have a better chance.
If I were to face a guy throwing low 80s then face something throwing low 90s, the low 90s would be real difficult to catch up with. However, if I were to see the low 90s consistently I would probably have a better chance.
Not knowing your age, level or circumstances, I would ask; "what do you think you need to do to hit faster pitching? Some of the solutions should be pretty evident...
Start with; "have I ever PRACTICED against pitching at that speed?" Have you ever heard of the "Overload principle?"
Sometimes I wonder about some of the questions we see on here.
Start with; "have I ever PRACTICED against pitching at that speed?" Have you ever heard of the "Overload principle?"
Sometimes I wonder about some of the questions we see on here.
There is not enough information to give you any meaningful advice. A swing with serious flaws can succeed at the lower levels of HS baseball, but it is my experience that when you get to Varsity against guys throwing 85+ the same swing won't work no matter how soon you get started. Build a swing that can compete at the highest levels of HS baseball and it will carry you to college. Just my 2cents. Post some video and it might help.
Sultan
In the visual mechanics thread you quoted that from toe touch to contact a swing is 180-200 ms. That sounds right with what I had read. I am assuming that was for a fairly high level hitter.
There must be quite a bit more variation in that number at the lower levels. Even the guys who execute the same mechanics might not have the ability to execute them at the higher speeds. Then there’s the guys who have loopy swings, or no hip drive, etc. If they don’t have good swing mechanics: they either don’t have enough time to see the ball well enough because they have to start their swing; or they wait longer but, they just run out of time to get the swing through correctly.
I could see that a guy could have great bat speed numbers but, suffer because of the time it takes to bring the bat to the point of contact (likely due to a longer path or unnecessary movements).
If 180-200 ms is Major League, I could believe that some swings have to be 300 ms.
In the visual mechanics thread you quoted that from toe touch to contact a swing is 180-200 ms. That sounds right with what I had read. I am assuming that was for a fairly high level hitter.
There must be quite a bit more variation in that number at the lower levels. Even the guys who execute the same mechanics might not have the ability to execute them at the higher speeds. Then there’s the guys who have loopy swings, or no hip drive, etc. If they don’t have good swing mechanics: they either don’t have enough time to see the ball well enough because they have to start their swing; or they wait longer but, they just run out of time to get the swing through correctly.
I could see that a guy could have great bat speed numbers but, suffer because of the time it takes to bring the bat to the point of contact (likely due to a longer path or unnecessary movements).
If 180-200 ms is Major League, I could believe that some swings have to be 300 ms.
Every time I hear about how to get around on a fastball, I think of Gary Gaetti, whose nickname was "rat". (If you look up a picture of him, you will see why!)
He was a good fastball hitter, and the saying was;
"You can't sneak the cheese past the rat".
He was a good fastball hitter, and the saying was;
"You can't sneak the cheese past the rat".
axum;
you stand deeper in the box, choke the bat and keep your eyes open. Years ago, Robert had the similar opportunity to hit off of a minor league pitcher who later became GM of the Padres.
During our Area Code games I invited Eric Davis to conduct a clinic to all the young and nervous HS hitters. He simply said "you know what is coming,swing the bat!!!! Do not have any "fear".
Later, I may relate the story of Don Mattingly, Tony Gwynn and Jeff Torburg talking hitting. This was a "classic".
Bob Williams
you stand deeper in the box, choke the bat and keep your eyes open. Years ago, Robert had the similar opportunity to hit off of a minor league pitcher who later became GM of the Padres.
During our Area Code games I invited Eric Davis to conduct a clinic to all the young and nervous HS hitters. He simply said "you know what is coming,swing the bat!!!! Do not have any "fear".
Later, I may relate the story of Don Mattingly, Tony Gwynn and Jeff Torburg talking hitting. This was a "classic".
Bob Williams
Pitchers love it when a batter chokes up. They now have 2-3 inches more room!
When a batter chokes the bat, he will use a longer bat. Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, Pete Rose choke the bat. It is better to be quick than to be late.
"Now the rest of the Story"
Many years ago in San Diego at the College Coaches Convention.1,000 coaches listened to Jeff Thorborg [moderator]; Tony Gwynn and Don Mattingly discuss hitting.
Don said "I can predict my pitch". Silence among all the audience. Jeff said tell me. Don then said, if I crown the plate the pitch will throw inside. What I do is to choke the bat, shorten my back swing and think "quick". If I stand "off" the plate the pitcher will pitch me outside corner. Then I focus on hitting to the "opposite" field.
Tony said he "works" up on sinker ball pitchers and "back" on "rising" ball [Nolan Ryan*.
Then Torborg mentions Pete Rose. Pete would talk when he was in the batter's box. "Jeff, I want a fast ball" Thorborg of course thought that Rose was setting him up. Rose did not care, he hit the ball where it was pitch.
When we travel to Australia each December our coaches, former ML players can verify these stories.
Bob Williams
"Now the rest of the Story"
Many years ago in San Diego at the College Coaches Convention.1,000 coaches listened to Jeff Thorborg [moderator]; Tony Gwynn and Don Mattingly discuss hitting.
Don said "I can predict my pitch". Silence among all the audience. Jeff said tell me. Don then said, if I crown the plate the pitch will throw inside. What I do is to choke the bat, shorten my back swing and think "quick". If I stand "off" the plate the pitcher will pitch me outside corner. Then I focus on hitting to the "opposite" field.
Tony said he "works" up on sinker ball pitchers and "back" on "rising" ball [Nolan Ryan*.
Then Torborg mentions Pete Rose. Pete would talk when he was in the batter's box. "Jeff, I want a fast ball" Thorborg of course thought that Rose was setting him up. Rose did not care, he hit the ball where it was pitch.
When we travel to Australia each December our coaches, former ML players can verify these stories.
Bob Williams
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
When a batter chokes the bat, he will use a longer bat. Ted Williams, Barry Bonds, Pete Rose choke the bat. It is better to be quick than to be late.
ummm... wouldn't a longer bat be heavier? How do you gain bat speed with a heavier bat?
Even if the longer bat weighed the same, how would you gain bat speed if the bat is the same length out of your hands?
What good is bat speed if you cannot see the ball.
A longer bat is not necessary heavier.
I have in front of me now the SSK Albert Pujos model 34", 31 ounce. Also Carl Crawford model [he chokes the bat]34" 33 ounce.
The Cubs Soriano uses a 35" 35 ounce.
We had a San Diego HS player in Australia
swing a 34.5" 34 ounce.
If you need "bat speed" use a fungo.
Bob Williams
A longer bat is not necessary heavier.
I have in front of me now the SSK Albert Pujos model 34", 31 ounce. Also Carl Crawford model [he chokes the bat]34" 33 ounce.
The Cubs Soriano uses a 35" 35 ounce.
We had a San Diego HS player in Australia
swing a 34.5" 34 ounce.
If you need "bat speed" use a fungo.
Bob Williams
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
baseball secret revealed: start sooner
I'd rather wait longer.
quote:Originally posted by SixMonthsInALeakyBoat:
hm...just see it and hit it. that's what always has worked for me and still does.
What's life like in the big leagues? =)
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
axum;
you stand deeper in the box, choke the bat and keep your eyes open. Years ago, Robert had the similar opportunity to hit off of a minor league pitcher who later became GM of the Padres.
During our Area Code games I invited Eric Davis to conduct a clinic to all the young and nervous HS hitters. He simply said "you know what is coming,swing the bat!!!! Do not have any "fear".
Later, I may relate the story of Don Mattingly, Tony Gwynn and Jeff Torburg talking hitting. This was a "classic".
Bob Williams
Bob, how many kids at the area code games have mechanics that come close to Eric Davis. I've been looking for video of his swing for a few weeks but haven't had any luck. Davis did some wicked things with the bat. In my experience, pro hitters are great at talking approach, but not so much with mechanics. I have played for former MLB guys and was a host family for the Atlantic League for 7 or 8 years. Literally had pro guys (including former MLB players) living in my house. They typically teach what they think they do, not what they really do.
Interesting Question:
My son copied Eric Davis from the right side and Strawberry from the left side, however he was 6', not 6'6". Each approach started with the hands lower
and then each hitter brought the hands up to get on top of the ball. The "high tee" drill is great for this muscle memory.
When the hands are low, the hitter needs discipline to "lay off" the high pitch. the low hands are also relaxed. Ted Williams, Willie Mays each started with hands low. Eric Davis had the rare combination of running speed and power.
He told our AC players to adjust. During the AC games the radar guns were on the pitcher and the pitcher threw his best fast ball, so go to the plate ready to "hack" and let it "rip".
When I work with players today, I say "let it rip", feel the energy, remove all "fear of failure".
Find a relax "set up" and enjoy the swing.
"think about nothing". Maybe "feel sorry" for the pitcher.
Bob Williams
My son copied Eric Davis from the right side and Strawberry from the left side, however he was 6', not 6'6". Each approach started with the hands lower
and then each hitter brought the hands up to get on top of the ball. The "high tee" drill is great for this muscle memory.
When the hands are low, the hitter needs discipline to "lay off" the high pitch. the low hands are also relaxed. Ted Williams, Willie Mays each started with hands low. Eric Davis had the rare combination of running speed and power.
He told our AC players to adjust. During the AC games the radar guns were on the pitcher and the pitcher threw his best fast ball, so go to the plate ready to "hack" and let it "rip".
When I work with players today, I say "let it rip", feel the energy, remove all "fear of failure".
Find a relax "set up" and enjoy the swing.
"think about nothing". Maybe "feel sorry" for the pitcher.
Bob Williams
quote:Originally posted by Bob Williams:
Each approach started with the hands lower
and then each hitter brought the hands up to get on top of the ball. The "high tee" drill is great for this muscle memory.
When the hands are low, the hitter needs discipline to "lay off" the high pitch. the low hands are also relaxed. Ted Williams, Willie Mays each started with hands low.
Do you think they were trying to get on top of the ball, or even with the ball. I've heard people talking about "pumping the well" in reference to the "hitch" that Davis used. To me, getting on top of the ball implies a lot of top hand use (= top arm use?) and I don't think Davis did this. At least not when he his the ball well.
Do you think Sheffield tries to get on top of the ball? Is he much more different than Davis?
Sheffield's 500 Career HR
Out of everyone on here, I think JohnnyAppleseed has it right. Don't overthink it. Practice hitting the faster pitches allot, and your body will adjust to be able to hit it. You will figure out yourself how to compensate. you can't really listen to allot of the garbage people try to tell you.
quote:Out of everyone on here, I think JohnnyAppleseed has it right.
Actually, he's the least right....IOW, not right at all.....
All of you should listen to Blue Dog---he is never wrong !!!!!
quote:Whenever I face a guy throwing hard I always load earlier.
Well, TRhit, if you agree with this, well, actually, you probably do..........
I probably do what???
Actually, imho, the best way to catch up to the top speeds is to practice to catch up to the top speeds. In other words, players find a comfort zone and then practice at that zone for the majority of their repetitions. This leaves them ill prepared to handle someone who really brings the gas. Things like getting to the position of palms up/palms down in fractions of a second is important to being able to catch up. Tweks made the comment that he didn't load earlier but tended to "wait longer." That can only happen if you've practiced efficiency. How you do it is another matter and so, I won't go into that since we'd have arguments. Also, I believe it is easier to gear down than gear up. Having hit off of a couple of guys who made it to the bigs (years ago) it is very humbling when they lean back and blow and you're defenseless. I didn't practice the right way at times.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
Actually, imho, the best way to catch up to the top speeds is to practice to catch up to the top speeds. In other words, players find a comfort zone and then practice at that zone for the majority of their repetitions. This leaves them ill prepared to handle someone who really brings the gas. Things like getting to the position of palms up/palms down in fractions of a second is important to being able to catch up. Tweks made the comment that he didn't load earlier but tended to "wait longer." That can only happen if you've practiced efficiency. How you do it is another matter and so, I won't go into that since we'd have arguments. Also, I believe it is easier to gear down than gear up. Having hit off of a couple of guys who made it to the bigs (years ago) it is very humbling when they lean back and blow and you're defenseless. I didn't practice the right way at times.
CoachB, I'd rather wait longer than start sooner. No need to argue if you don't agree.
Nothing like facing a guy throwing 90+ and gearing up for a fastball only to have him drop in a curve to make you look foolish. You have to be able to read the pitch and react, regardless of speed. Knowing the pitchers tendencies helps, but it sure isn't easy.I believe swing mechanics can (and should) help a player to be able to wait longer. I picture Bonds when he set the single season HR record. It looked like he was waiting forever.
quote:Originally posted by BobbyTewks:quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
Actually, imho, the best way to catch up to the top speeds is to practice to catch up to the top speeds. In other words, players find a comfort zone and then practice at that zone for the majority of their repetitions. This leaves them ill prepared to handle someone who really brings the gas. Things like getting to the position of palms up/palms down in fractions of a second is important to being able to catch up. Tweks made the comment that he didn't lo
CoachB, I'd rather wait longer than start sooner. No need to argue if you don't agree.
I believe swing mechanics can (and should) help a player to be able to wait longer. I picture Bonds when he set the single season HR record. It looked like he was waiting forever.
Bobby, I think we agree. I've stated before on this site that my child's improvement came when it seemed as if she had more time to sit and hit and didn't worry anymore about speed. The argument would be on how and I'm no longer going to do that. I believe you made my point about efficiency. In training, btw, you also have to incorporate visual strategies. I know that Bluedog has studies a lot in that regard.
quote:Originally posted by CoachB25:
Bobby, I think we agree. I've stated before on this site that my child's improvement came when it seemed as if she had more time to sit and hit and didn't worry anymore about speed. The argument would be on how and I'm no longer going to do that. I believe you made my point about efficiency. In training, btw, you also have to incorporate visual strategies. I know that Bluedog has studies a lot in that regard.
I think we agree as well.
The visual strategies would be a great addition to this thread.
quote:axum;
you stand deeper in the box,
why would you stand deeper in the box? what if next pitch was curveball? changeup?
If you think moving around in the box is the answer, pitch to pitch, the pitcher has already won...
quote:Originally posted by BlueDog:quote:Out of everyone on here, I think JohnnyAppleseed has it right.
Actually, he's the least right....IOW, not right at all.....
That philosophy worked for me....Practice hitting the faster pitches allot, and you will teach yourself to hit it. Its too confusing listening to all the different bits of advice people give (allot of it is garbage). Most people are intelligent enough to figure it out themselves (except maybe little kids).
I have a question on this in regards to preparing for a hard thrower. My son’s coach has a very nice high-end machine that can be cranked up so when he is there he can use it. What about dear old dad throwing closer and harder? At what point is it counter productive. If I am blazing along at 50 MPH and move into 45-50 ft or so is this a good way to practice?
Bof that is what we have always done. Move closer and throw a little harder. Stress getting the load early and then getting that front foot down. A drill we do alot in cages is setting up 3 home plates one about 3 feet in front of the other, im still at a close distance and we work 5 to 8 pitches at each plate then they move up to the next plate. works on staying back and seeing the ball deep ( besides inside pitch ) at the first plate then they move up to middle plate this one should be in there zone still stress load early and getting front foot down. Finally the last plate i work on them turning the front knee in( turn and go ) this replaces the load and step.
