How to Let Coach Know You're Working On Your Own?

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

Coach_Dad, congratulations on "coming out" as a poster 

I'm going to bounce around a bit...

You do not have to play HS baseball in order to play college baseball.  A good travel team and a good organized recruiting plan (along with the RIGHT TALENT LEVEL) will suffice.  That said, not playing with the HS program may raise flags that your son must be prepared to answer to and, warranted or not, "the coaches were verbally abusive and not fair" will probably not be looked at as an acceptable response.  At the end of the day, if he is a good enough player, has the grades a school needs him to have and doesn't have any other red flags on his resume, he will be able to find a college program, with or without HS baseball.

Speaking of verbally abusive and seemingly unfair, you just described the perception of most college players toward their college HC.  Sometimes this applies even more so at the better JC's where they typically bring in a large cattle call in the fall, pick the best of the litter, turn, burn and cut the rest.  So, to you and your son, be careful what you wish for.   An old-school verbal yeller and a guy who doesn't want to get close to the players until after he has cut a bunch of 'em is quite common in the college ranks.

If the situation is really bad enough at the HS, cut bait.  But, if your kid loves playing enough to want to play at the next level, he shouldn't let his dislike or lack of understanding of coaches keep him from playing the game he loves with his HS buds.  He needs to work hard enough and know enough of what the coaches are looking for to create separation.  Be good enough of a player to leave no doubt.  Be a good enough teammate to leave no doubt.  Figure out how to break out of the doghouse and stay out of it.  Really, there is very likely a reason he is in the doghouse,  whether you agree with it or not, whether warranted or not.  Doesn't matter.  Take action.  Bust out.  Rise above.  Don't accept the disgruntled parent chatter.  You may notice that chatter doesn't come nearly as much from the V starters and their parents in the program.  Do you guys want to be part of the water cooler chatter or is it more important for him to be part of the baseball program?

BTW, he shouldn't have to choose travel over HS... as stated in earlier threads, any decent travel team will know to shut down or become optional when HS ramps up.  As far as having the means,  if he wants it bad enough, he can cut lawns or something to help cover travel team costs.

It is my experience that JV stats quite often mean VERY LITTLE in regards to how that may translate into success at V (particularly when compared to parent perception).  Don't allow yourselves to fall back on his JV stats as a reason he should be owed something at V. 

Best of luck.  Keep us updated.

Iowamom23 posted:

RJM posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

We had a school here that had to give up 16 wins last season for rules' violations. And the high school associations that impose sanctions don't really much care what parents think.

The community cares. You have to decide how important it is to put up a fight. In our case the basketball coach is a friend. When he told me why he cut my son he said it was off the record. ** He trusted me not to make a case of it. I'll bet you plenty of kids get cut around the country for the same reason as my son. But they get a BS response from the coach rather than the truth. Personally, I would rather know the truth.

** I didn't pursued him. I ran into him at the grocery store that night. He started talking before I asked the question.

Coach_Dad posted:

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

As much as I feel HS baseball should be a HS kid's goal, there are rare cases where it's in the kid's best interest to find another avenue.  And though I feel I don't or can't know enough about this situation to say with confidence what might be the best avenue in this case, it sounds like it just might be.  So, I'll just say this . . . 

For 2018's, this baseball season is really important in terms of getting playing time and exposure to recruiters and scouts.  If my son were in this situation, as been presented here, I'd probably have him wait to see what develops as the season begins.  If he remains "in the dog house" (and my son had an occasion to be there for a short time Jr year, with a travel team coach), then I would have my son simply leave the HS program after giving the beginning of the season a fair effort and if there's no acceptable results, then concentrate on the travel team and development to get as much attention from recruiters and scouts as possible.  I would emphasize to my son to not let the emotional aspect of the situation color the decision and try to treat it in a very business like manner.  If the HS coach doesn't like him and can find a way to work together for son's objectives, then one must move on.  

Coach_Dad posted:

First time posting, long time reader of these forums. I've been using this website and forums for about 5 years now trying to plan / guide my 2018 to be in the best possible position to be a successful baseball player. He's worked hard, off season workouts since 6th grade, has a good bat (told he definitely has a college "swing" -- whatever that means. His off tee VELO his freshman year was metered at 75 mph by University of Michigan during a clinic), good arm and glove. By far not the best kid on the team but definitely no slouch and working on improving his game as much as possible. Has a deep passion and I feel he's one of those players that's a student of the game.  

Unfortunately, 2018 is in a toxic baseball program that includes verbal and mentally abusive staff. And no one wants to say anything about it because they are afraid of how that will affect playing time -- and sadly, we're one of those parents. We've seen retribution many times. HS program does not have a great history, since this coaching staff took over about 6 years ago, of connecting players to good colleges and baseball programs and the coaches do not have a very good reputation among their peers. 

2018 batted over .600 for most of the 2016 season on JV and for some reason was the only soph not pulled up to Varsity at end of the year. 2018 had many conversations with coaches to see what he could so to improve only to get the run around and blown off. We were warned from a couple of parents before his freshman year that coaching staff usually has at least 1-2 kids in "the doghouse" regardless of what they do, and that our kid would most likely be one of those kids. Sure as anything, 2018 has permanent residency in the doghouse. He's been very frustrated over this situation but fights through it and does not give up.

We have never really had the means to get 2018 into travel programs; however, we were told last year that if our 2018 would have any hope getting into a college program (we're looking at junior colleges, only at this point due to 4 year costs) that he needed to get on a travel team this year. He's been very successful in his community athletic league program but I guess that doesn't really hold as much weight as it did when I played community ball 30+ years ago.

Fortunately, 2018 was picked up by a great travel organization and the team is playing up a division (playing "up" an age or two is something we've been doing as much as possible) and there appears to be a potential route to a junior college 2018 has targeted through this organization. Both travel org and HS program will be practicing pretty much at the same times on the same day. Up to this point, 2018 has been to every off-season HS workout program, even taking clinics / camps run by HS coaches to get more face time and display what he can provide to them. Everything seemed pretty cut and dried to us parents: go to the travel practices and catch up with the HS program once tryouts start.

But, after reading the postings in this thread, I'm concerned that if our 2018 chooses travel over HS that it will basically sink him with the HS program for the 2017 season. I'd like to get some input into our situation as it seems unique from what others have been posting. Is it "safe" for 2018 to take a chance on choosing travel over HS practices in our case? And, this is not a case of "daddy goggles"; the situation with coaching staff has been the subject of many conversations with parents and players before and after we got into the program. 

Well I guess I would have a couple of questions.  First, why would the other parents say before freshman year that your kid would likely be in the "doghouse?"  Is there something about the kid's attitude that would put him there? 

Second, I think the "metal abuse" allegations get thrown around a lot more these days.  Most old school, tough coaches would be considered mental abusers these days.  I don't know what is happening at your school, but are you sure they are abusive?  Or are you just hearing from "little Johnny's mommy" about how they mad him "cry?"  My kid has had some tough coaches in the past.  You have to have a thick skin and not let it bother you. 

As for complaining and/or retribution, that is a valid concern.  But you would be surprised how far a complaint can go.  Last year as the season wound down a parent complained to the AD about how "little Johnny" was treated.  The complaint eventually went public via a mass email.  Now the parents had some valid points.  Eventually the coach left for "greener" pastures.  In your case, after you have really looked at the situation and agree that it is in fact abusive, anonymous communication to the AD would be in order - with a simple request that the AD attend workouts/practices/games to see what is going on.  Let it go from there. 

And I feel the frustration of not getting "pulled up."  Happened to my kid after he was hitting .600 plus.  Not a sniff.  He couldn't figure out why we wouldn't get pulled up to a team which had been no-hit several times. 

As for what to attend, I let you know when I figure it out. 

RJM posted:

CoachB25 posted:

Keep in mind that any coach that demands that their players participate in off season programs, take roll, ... and use that as a reason to cut a player when cuts are completed is subject to sanctions by most state associations with penalties to include suspensions for the coaching staff and loss of games.  Parents need to educate themselves and then be prepared to act IF they can prove any violation of the state rules.  That is why I am so adamant that my players don't have to attend and roll will not be taken. 

By the time anything happens the season is over. Even if it's half over what do you think the reaction would be to disrupting the season when the coach is suspended or fired?

Two former pro basketball players (dads) told the basketball coach he was out of his mind to cut my son. It didn't change the coach's mind. He wanted players who were going to maximize their talent and be committed to the program. He didn't believe my son could do it playing two other sports. 

It worked out. Having the winter to focus on baseball and physical training made him a better baseball player.

I can't worry about that.  Do the right thing all the time and you'll always be able to look everyone in the eyes.  We had open gym tonight.  We had a player not there.  Some of the kids were upset.  So, I asked them whether any of them had to be there tonight.  They said no.  I responded, "exactly." 

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

Golfman25 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

My son's HS tryouts are 1/16...coach started his pre-workouts on 1/3.  JV goes until mid March, Varsity goes until mid April.

Do you have similar dates?

CaCO3Girl posted:

Golfman25 posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

Bottom line...the HS team takes priority over the travel team.  You can train with the travel team 9 months out of the year.  HS is first for that short 3 month season.

Yes but we are talking off season.  That's where the "conflicts" arise. 

My son's HS tryouts are 1/16...coach started his pre-workouts on 1/3.  JV goes until mid March, Varsity goes until mid April.

Do you have similar dates?

I think Golfman is here in IL with me.  Tryouts start 2/27.  First on contest is usually two weeks after that.  Season ends around 5/20 and State Championship is on 6/10.

BTW our off season lifting/conditioning program started in October, open gym/hitting on the weekends occasionally (when supervision and enough kids are available) through December.  Starting in January, lifting/conditioning in the mornings (5:30am), open gyms start to kick in two mornings a week (5:30am) and hitting on the weekends.

So Golf, what is the coach asking of your son?

Hi All - definitely an interesting question, and we've found the answer can be different coach-to-coach, and year-to-year too.

CaCO - my son does not play football like yours but offseason workouts at his HS started mid-August.

New coach last year, and his comment to my son was..... if we are willing to pay for training, he was all for it.  He wanted son to make his HS training, and also let him know when he had conflicts and his training dates for strength/speed work.  He did not want my son to overtrain (which we appreciated).

My son trains at same outfit as Nuke83s son, and its probably one of the better facilities here in the Atlanta area. This year they opened a facility 3 miles from the HS, and the facility owner offered to partner with the HS coach to help his HS offseason training program.  The coach was leery about losing 'his' offseason time with the kids - even though a number of the kids on the HS team were already working out at the facility.  SMH because ALL of the kids could have benefited and could have taken advantage of folks that specialize in baseball specific training.

Long story short - son does both to get face time with the HS coach, but get real benefits from working with the training facility.  Key is for son to communicate.

Best of luck Golfman

CaCO3Girl posted:

So Golf, what is the coach asking of your son?

It's a battle between travel, HS and MOM (re school work). 

Basically it's 4 nights and one sat/sun for travel - 3 hours a session.  HS is 4 afternoons and 3 mornings a week - 1 to 1.5 hrs. 

Kid wants to be seen as much as possible.  Coach hasn't really said anything (that I'm told), positive or negative.  But I think they are frustrated with his grade level.  And I assume they are letting it show.  There are only 3 kids from his class that work regularly - him and 2 buddies.   

Now, here is how stupid a 3.5 gpa kid is.  Coach asks him if he is coming to the next workout.   There's the opening he needs to open up a dialog, right?  He shrugs and says, "yep."   

"If he remains "in the dog house" (and my son had an occasion to be there for a short time Jr year, with a travel team coach), then I would have my son simply leave the HS program after giving the beginning of the season a fair effort and if there's no acceptable results.."

If the kid continues to play he will run into more bad coaches, yet  he can still learn from bad coaches.... but he can't learn or earn respect by quitting.   I don't know of a single kid my son played with at the college  or pro level that  quit his HS team.  Other coaches and scouts know about the bad coaches and if your son shows he can work with one, he will earn their respect and consideration, in addition to learning a useful life lesson/s. 

presont posted:

 

My son trains at same outfit as Nuke83s son, and its probably one of the better facilities here in the Atlanta area. This year they opened a facility 3 miles from the HS, and the facility owner offered to partner with the HS coach to help his HS offseason training program.  The coach was leery about losing 'his' offseason time with the kids - even though a number of the kids on the HS team were already working out at the facility.  SMH because ALL of the kids could have benefited and could have taken advantage of folks that specialize in baseball specific training.

 

This is the kind of crap that really irritates me.  I really think our HS should partner with a local facility.  They can just do more than a HS coach can in the off season.  It's not about face time with the kids.  It's about making better ballplayers. 

Local facility owner was telling me about back when his kid played at a local high school.  They would open their place on Sunday nights and players would come in for live pitching & hitting.  First weeks of the season, they would hit the ground running having already played several games worth of hitting.  Can't do that in a HS gym. 

My high school program dont allow the players to participate in travel ball during the season but encouraged them to play two sports. Parents have to sign a letter stating that they are not to say anything about how players are coached , required to take weight training, participate in a navel seal  program and a two month baseball conditioning three times a week even though they take weight training and lift every Saturday during the season . Coaches are really tough on the players and  talk lots of smack but if you want to play this sport you grind until you reach your goals. Hope your son don't get discouraged. Look at the bigger picture. 

Hate to say it but he can't do both.  You are begging for an injury.  My advice would be to pick and choose the days with travel and the days with HS.  And while I am ALL for kids communicating with coaches in this case your child is putting his health in jeopardy by not communicating.  I would send a short email to the coach explaining the kids schedule and asking which days are most important to the HS coach. It's entirely possible the HC of the HS is not a bad coach, he's just misinformed.

Grindneverstop posted:

My high school program dont allow the players to participate in travel ball during the season but encouraged them to play two sports. Parents have to sign a letter stating that they are not to say anything about how players are coached , required to take weight training, participate in a navel seal  program and a two month baseball conditioning three times a week even though they take weight training and lift every Saturday during the season . Coaches are really tough on the players and  talk lots of smack but if you want to play this sport you grind until you reach your goals. Hope your son don't get discouraged. Look at the bigger picture. 

How successful is this HS program?  This coaching program sounds egotistical and limiting the upside of projectable baseball players.  How's the moral of the players and how supportive are the parents?

Program very successful.  Produce D1,D2,D3, Juco and MLB. We have lots of players that do move out of the the district to play baseball at another district. Parents are 100% sopportive. I do agree head coach is extreme but tells the players he's preparing them to play at next level. I must say he teaches the players to play the game the right way. Make sure they stay healthy and don't injure themselves. Son don't complain and can never wait for HS baseball to start. 

Golfman25 posted:

This is the kind of crap that really irritates me.  I really think our HS should partner with a local facility.  They can just do more than a HS coach can in the off season.  It's not about face time with the kids.  It's about making better ballplayers. 

Local facility owner was telling me about back when his kid played at a local high school.  They would open their place on Sunday nights and players would come in for live pitching & hitting.  First weeks of the season, they would hit the ground running having already played several games worth of hitting.  Can't do that in a HS gym. 

I agree. I tried to partner with a local strength and conditioning place and got out kids a great discount on  12-week offseason baseball specific program. Very affordable. I hammered their parents about how important it was. And it would allow us to do all baseball skills in the athletic period.

6 kids signed up.....