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How will you teach hitting?

F FlippJ1,000+ posts
swingbuster,

Was that last sentence really needed? I haven't seen you post your swing (or your son's) so the only reasons I can come up with for that last comment are...

1) You don't like Linear or
2) You're trying to shift the focus from a poor swing using a device you're trying to sell.

Either way I don't believe your last sentence adds anything to this discussion and in my opinion was unnecessary.

Jason
Last edited by FlippJ
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts 
This photo of 16 yr old LHH 
prospect from California 
and video clip of #25-(Trip?) 
looks very similiar in early 
stages of the swing.  Believe 
Shep when he says, that is a 
compliment! PG Jerry, you can 
view frame by frame of NY 
prospect #25 by using arrows 
on right side bottom of video 
clip. Reverse/FF buttons

Notice how Stock loads against
lower body large muscle groups
and maintains balance and
center before turning 
shoulders and bringing bat
forward. Front foot is closed
as should be and power is
coming from lower base as
in hitting against a strong
front side in carousel 
fashion.

The rotational power swing
as demonstrated by LHH in 
California can be attained
through hard-work and
dedication. Stock began
studying this type of swing
back when he was around 11-
12 yrs of age and is the 
best recent example I can 
think of as far as success
attained from proper use of
the mechanics involved in the
rotational swing and using the
lower body muscles,  which by
the way are strongest in body,
to generate batspeed and power.
Upperbody/shoulders/hands 
should be like a whip when 
coming forward if hitting
against strong front side.
The lowerbody is the primary 
foundation of the strong
front side and vital in the success of a hitter.
Last edited by Shepster
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts
Kinda looks like this LHH in photo above in the early frames/stages of swing but does need to work on finish>long through the ball. Looks more like a chop and stop swing rather than a swing with good follow through and extension of clip of NY kid but I kinda like the swing mechanics too and would say this chop and stop is correctable.

The recoil of bat at end of swing in follow through is strong indicator of upperbody swing using arms as powersource as indicated by Linear.IMHO

Still a nice lick though! Was it a HR??

Shep tater
Last edited by Shepster
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts
Here is the text again sir as requested in Email captain

quote:
Posted February 19, 2006 01:55 PM

This photo of 16 yr old LHH
prospect from California
and video clip of #25-(Trip?)
looks very similiar in early
stages of the swing. Believe
Shep when he says, that is a
compliment! PG Jerry, you can
view frame by frame of NY
prospect #25 by using arrows
on right side bottom of video
clip. Reverse/FF buttons

Notice how Stock loads against
lower body large muscle groups
and maintains balance and
center before turning
shoulders and bringing bat
forward. Front foot is closed
as should be and power is
coming from lower base as
in hitting against a strong
front side in carousel
fashion.

The rotational power swing
as demonstrated by LHH in
California can be attained
through hard-work and
dedication. Stock began
studying this type of swing
back when he was around 11-
12 yrs of age and is the
best recent example I can
think of as far as success
attained from proper use of
the mechanics involved in the
rotational swing and using the
lower body muscles, which by
the way are strongest in body,
to generate batspeed and power.
Upperbody/shoulders/hands
should be like a whip when
coming forward if hitting
against strong front side.
The lowerbody is the primary
foundation of the strong
front side
Last edited by Shepster
CA Coach A100+ posts
MT07LHP,
Nice swing. You lower half does a good job of "flowing" through your swing and never stopping your rhythm. Upper body stay inside the baseball pretty well. You may have pulled the front shoulder out just a hair premature, but it was minor if you did. Where was the pitch? It looked as if inside half? I would just recommend trusting your hands a bit more allowing your swing to finish more towards R-CF instead of RF. That will give you a cleaner finish and more leverage due to the arms extending through the ball.
PG,
I see what you are saying on the front leg. It appeared that way to me in regular speed, but when slowed down, it locks at a pretty good time in the swing. He did appear in game speed to lock it a bit early though. Good observation.
Shep,
I believe that the recoil you saw was a result of him trying to get out of the box too quickly and not finishing his swing (aka Ichiro). The shoulders do start to get a little loud towards the end of his swing, but when slowing the video down, he stays through the ball pretty well and it doesn't appear he pulls off so much as to initiate a recoil. If you will go to the end of the clip and then step back 8 frames, you will see that he gets through the ball well. Then on the next frame, either he starts to get out of the box before finishing or he is not real flexible in his back and his swing finishes pre-maturely due to that. You are right though...in most players, using the upper body to generate the bat speed will incur a recoil.
Great stuff here guys!
L Linear500+ posts
Are you all enablers?

This kid has a major swing plane flaw.

The graphic demonstrates it.

It has to be fixed or he won't play through his genetic potential.

I could be wrong but I don't believe the author is looking for "atta boys".

Visually stare at the Bonds clip on page 52 until you can "see" the imaginery disk created by his swing plane.

Visually stare at the youngster until you can "see" the imaginery disk created by his swing plane.

Compare the two.

Both swing planes are in the skeletal graphic. One is Bonds'. One is the kids'. One is good. One is bad.
Last edited by Linear
CA Coach A100+ posts
Linear loves a good fight. boxing
Please speak in specifics instead of using generalizations to pick on a kid's swing. The lead arm never bars out thus the box is maintained through contact. The swing planes are nearly identical. The rear elbow/hand lead into the hip together correctly and pass through bat lag very efficiently without losing the barrel into the zone or down-out of the zone. The hands snap at the appropriate time allowing the barrel to catch the ball with the hands just in front of the stomach. His backside finishes through the ball as he goes through contact and I am going to guess, unless his dad is Barry Bonds, he should be able to maximize his "genetic potential" quite well with that as a foundation and continued refinement as he grows.

*DING* Round 1 *FIGHT* boxing
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts
Would also like to add that S-E-T-P-R-O is the only way to go and would highly recommend this fine looking LHH to extend his horizons and do a little research in the area of N-Y-M-A-N

What a tremendous difference it has made in the prospect I posted on page 52 and many many others.

He can mean the difference of college scholarship vs no college scholarship,
being drafted by MLB vs not being drafted by MLB. This is how much I believe in it and getting ready to start several more prospects on S-E-T-P-R-O program ASAP. Smile

Shep looks for results, talk is cheap. Have found outstanding results in N-Y-M-A-N teachings over and over.

Good Day hi Shep
Last edited by Shepster
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach A:
The swing planes are nearly identical...


There can be no fight.

Not until you get an education.

If you can look at the two swings and say the swing planes are identical then you can't see enough yet.

The skeletal graphic shows two swing planes. Bonds has one of them. The kid has the other.

And the kids failure to maintain the box is a large part of the problem.

Study.

And, while studying, look at the imaginery disk....not the bat.
Last edited by Linear
L Linear500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Coach A:
Please speak in specifics instead of using generalizations to pick on a kid's swing.


Pick on a kid's swing?

I believe the poster (dad) posted the swing and asked what we thought.

Am I supposed to lie?

Am I supposed to enable the kid to have good success at low levels and watch him hit the wall as he goes up the food chain?

No matter what is posted are we supposed to say...."that's really good"?

And as for specifics.....swing plane is specific. Maintaining the box is specific.....even if you don't know what they mean.

Your real complaint is that one of us knows a little bit and the other doesn't. And, you're not on the side you want to be on.
Last edited by Linear
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Interesting! This kid is Old news as a sophomore in high school based upon one swing. My point, and I'm sure Linear ... will all agree. I'd like to see more. BTW, some great clips this weekend on Barry Bonds after he made his announcements. If one wants to talk about spine angle and swing plane he just might be perfect if perfect can exist. JMHO!
Last edited by CoachB25
ShepsterShepster1,000+ posts
quote:
Shep...describe briefly the PROGRAM that you see



Would take a long time and Shep's on Laptop @ school getting ready to eat "cafeteria food"LOL

Swing, Will give you a brief answer though.

Methods used by P-a-u-l N-y-m-an help the player internalize the muscle memory of baeball related movement. Simple as that but most times training devices are needed to break "old habits" LOL

I like you Swing and like what you have to offer and I have kep't quiet up to this point this morning before I departed for school but feel I'm at the crossroads and must choose.

Besides this prospect lives closer to Conn. Wink

Back to country fried steak and 28 2nd grade students.

Going to HS BB game after school-Top Prospect Smile

Talk Later Bro,
Shep
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
quote:
Originally posted by Linear:
quote:
Originally posted by CoachB25:
Interesting! This kid is Old news as a sophomore in high school based upon one swing.


Even more interesting is you can't see the difference in swing planes.

You.......the hsbaseball coach........


Wouldn't it be even more interesting to see more than one swing? Do you then suggest that one swing defines a player? Is it incomprehensible to you that a hitter could take a swing of lesser quality on a given pitch? Are you suggesting that even the greats don't get fooled once in a while and have a poor swing?

I posted my thoughts on this swing and then deleted that portion of the post because I'm not quick to judge. Aren't you the same poster that remarked, in the past, that high school coaches change hitters to quickly based upon a couple of swings? Looking for a little conflict today? Guess that floats your boat! Genetic Potential? Good I don't have a son. You'd be the first to tell them to take up golf. LOL!
Last edited by CoachB25
L Linear500+ posts
MT07LHP posted one clip and asked for advice.

He got it. He can determine what to do with it.

Not everyone needs your help.

Could be a one swing mistake and most all his others are good. I suspect not. On what looks like a very good pitch to hit, he has an improper swing plane. If you can't maintain your swing plane on that pitch you'll be even worse on other pitches.

MT07LHP can make that decision.

As for you.............it's still amazing you can't see the difference in the swing planes. For that matter, I doubt if you know what the differences mean even if you could figure out how and why they are different.

You know, YOU, the "I know I'm the best but please tell me again how good I am" guy......that in reality falls far short of knowing what constitutes a high level swing.

What brings you back to the skills section?

You (and a few others) have been missing for a couple of weeks now and the level of knowledge has advanced.
Last edited by Linear
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
How do you deduce that I can or can't see any flaw. I haven't posted on it. As per the absence, haven't been absent at all. Just didn't feel the need to post. Besides, leave this up to you. You are constantly and consistently the kettle. Did want to see more clips and don't think one swing is enough. As always, you're good for a chuckle or two. Per your "not everyone needs my help," exactly why I've stayed out and let you be the EXPERT on everything under the sun. Basketball, Football, Baseball, do you fix Baked Alaska as well? Probablly a gourmet cook! My ego, as large as it is, pales in comparison to yours. BTW, how do you know I don't belong to another website? Perhaps I do and correspond with others under a different name. Perhaps I took a lesson from you, the Sybil of the Internet. Then again, maybe I don't. At least I've looked at the mirror and all of my face is the same color since I haven't been putting it other places. dizzy dialog dizzy
Last edited by CoachB25
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Define who's the expert! It's easy to be an arm chair quarterback and tell everyone that such and such is the flaw. However, who's to say you, the almighty, Linearrshardozzirteachermanthecoach...'s opinion on what is right or wrong is any more correct off of one video feed than any John Doe walking the street?
CoachB25CoachB25Honorary "Old TImer"
Linear Wrote:

“Or is someone else working with your kids.........with you taking the credit.”

Well, heck yes. I have an incredible coaching staff. In fact, 2 out of the 3 paid coaches PLAYED FOR ME. Of those two, one went on to be an All-American in college and the other pitched in college. Both coached in college. Head Coaches get a lot of credit and assistant coaches do a lot of work. It was the same when I was an assistant coach.

Richard asked for my evaluation. The topic was locked this morning when I got to school. I had to coach basketball and then scout last night and so, I didn’t post my requested analysis. First let me say again, that I don’t think you can rate a player’s abilities on one swing. I feel the most comfortable suggesting changes in a hitter’s technique after I’ve thrown BP to them.

The upper body and the hands are not acting as one unit. What we call “Hands and body are better together.” This young man extends his hands toward the ump and then begins the swing. In turn, this lengthens or straightens the right arm. In my opinion, this could make his swing “longer.” I believe that this alters his swing plane. What would I then recommend to change it? I’d suggest that this young man change his spine angle and do what we call “getting the eyes over the plate.” I’d also recommend that this young man trigger by keeping his hands and upper body as one unit and slightly rotating his shoulders inward loading. In doing all of this then, the tell tale sign of the adjustment is that this young man’s swing plane should improve and his balance would be significantly better at finish. Note, in the video, he really rolls over that front foot and is not balanced.

Well, this is my assessment. I’m no expert and have never claimed to be. In fact, I despise most (not all) “experts.” These “experts” spend a lot of time looking at a computer skeleton and simulating swing planes. They are fantastic at hitting enter on the keyboard. Players are not perfect as those simulations. They are human and have human traits. To say a player won’t reach their “genetic potential” based on one video feed is absurd. That is unless that computer graphic can account for that player’s genetic makeup. Oops, don’t believe it can. JMHO!
Last edited by CoachB25
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