Swing
About angular momentum from stationary position>
I subscribe to no less than 70 degree angle when refering to stationary bat position.
Anything less than that is too flat and to me and can be considered wrapping.
The key for my hitters is the follow-through and extension through the swing zone without wrapping or flattening bat to generate power.
Shep
BB
The position of the bat changes so much for MLB hitters before rotation. A stationary picture like the one of Brett could change several times before actual rotation begins.
Shep
The position of the bat changes so much for MLB hitters before rotation. A stationary picture like the one of Brett could change several times before actual rotation begins.
Shep
Don't forget about Cobb. He had one peach of a hitch. That was then, this is now.
Shep
Shep
T.Speaker,J.Robinson,Stan Musial,...
The list could go on and on.
Shep
The list could go on and on.
Shep
Lets get back to importance of strong legs.
Did anyone notice how big and strong BBs legs looked in BBscout's video clip?
If you post another old clip of Hank Aaron, you will notice big strong legs.
The greatest power-hitters have the big strong legs.
Shep
PS(linear-strong legs provide a little more than just a base-would you agree?)
Did anyone notice how big and strong BBs legs looked in BBscout's video clip?
If you post another old clip of Hank Aaron, you will notice big strong legs.
The greatest power-hitters have the big strong legs.
Shep
PS(linear-strong legs provide a little more than just a base-would you agree?)
quote:extension through the swing zone .
Shep
This is my biggest area of concern
As far as strong legs......I support that idea ...but you will not get much clinical/ mechanical data on this board to place a high priority there. I tried ground up years ago and I struck out
swingbuster
If you initiated talks on extension in the follow-through without support on this board, you know more than they do.
References that support this hitting component at Major League level is a majority and where I come from its more than just cornbread and biscuits, its majority rules at the highest level.
Major League Scouting Bureau showed us hours and hours of video supporting this component at Scout Development School. The late great Carroll Sembera would not be pleased to know this about the gurus here on this board. Of course, the bureau's knowledge wasn't always public. MLSB videotape technician will probably be seeing the other Brett this spring
Shep Cares
If you initiated talks on extension in the follow-through without support on this board, you know more than they do.
References that support this hitting component at Major League level is a majority and where I come from its more than just cornbread and biscuits, its majority rules at the highest level.
Major League Scouting Bureau showed us hours and hours of video supporting this component at Scout Development School. The late great Carroll Sembera would not be pleased to know this about the gurus here on this board. Of course, the bureau's knowledge wasn't always public. MLSB videotape technician will probably be seeing the other Brett this spring
Shep Cares
quote:Originally posted by bbscout:
...The batters with the hitch, starting with Ruth and going all the way to Bonds are the guys who hit with power.
Maybe most, but not all. Mark McGwire was almost as still as a statue.
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
swingbuster
"extension in the follow-through"
Please define your terminology.
Linear
Must say, glad your back. Mac is an excellent example of a hitter I like.
Shep
Must say, glad your back. Mac is an excellent example of a hitter I like.
Shep
Extension in follow-through>
Self-Explanatory
Shep
Self-Explanatory
Shep
I rarely see someone not extend in the follow through.
But, I see no significance in it.
But, I see no significance in it.
He did pretty good when he was as thin as a bean pole his first year or two.
I guess the best way I can explain extension in the follow-through is the hitter putting emphasis, almost over accentuating, the swing after contact so the swing doesn't slow down too much or only become 75% completed.
Thats what professional hitting instructors are trying to accomplish when they drill hitters to have nice high finish in follow-through after contact. Almost like pretending to still be in contact with ball and not chopping and stopping-LOL
Shep
Thats what professional hitting instructors are trying to accomplish when they drill hitters to have nice high finish in follow-through after contact. Almost like pretending to still be in contact with ball and not chopping and stopping-LOL
Shep
Hey, just evented new terminology. Better get patent quick on "chopping and stopping" in follow-through of hitter's swing-lol
Shep
Shep
shep...not disagreeing...
there is not much frame by frame going on there that one can quantify.
Ruth....if anyone has a clip...his flick away from his body of the bat tip is an interesting trigger to hip coil and get inside the ball.
We fail to see the physics in some MLB players swings idiosyncrasies and label them a "hitch".
We just right it off to style but these is more going on there
Even the pump of the hands can delay the true swing to allow more time to get the foot down. All timing mechanisms work toward synching the upper and lower body...most people thing they have to do with deciding when to swing
there is not much frame by frame going on there that one can quantify.
Ruth....if anyone has a clip...his flick away from his body of the bat tip is an interesting trigger to hip coil and get inside the ball.
We fail to see the physics in some MLB players swings idiosyncrasies and label them a "hitch".
We just right it off to style but these is more going on there
Even the pump of the hands can delay the true swing to allow more time to get the foot down. All timing mechanisms work toward synching the upper and lower body...most people thing they have to do with deciding when to swing
BB
Just downloaded quicktime software, hope it doesn't cost. Send you bill if it does since it was your baseball clip that required it-JK LOL
Shep
Just downloaded quicktime software, hope it doesn't cost. Send you bill if it does since it was your baseball clip that required it-JK LOL
Shep
Swingbuster
Would rather to short flick than long hitch,
Wouldn't you agree?
Shep
PS(BB-fixen to look at clips now) Give me a couple of minutes-not as fast as Linear and swing-lol
Would rather to short flick than long hitch,
Wouldn't you agree?
Shep
PS(BB-fixen to look at clips now) Give me a couple of minutes-not as fast as Linear and swing-lol
BB
Looked at Kevin and Matt several times and almost disgusted they can get away with those massive hitches-LOL
Did notice extension in follow-through and not chop and stop though.
Also noticed huge strong legs, especially in KM.
Shep
Looked at Kevin and Matt several times and almost disgusted they can get away with those massive hitches-LOL
Did notice extension in follow-through and not chop and stop though.
Also noticed huge strong legs, especially in KM.
Shep
Your right linear.Don't you just love to hear those words reluctantly oozing from the Shep's mouth-LOL
Sorry about the typing. Still hunting and pecking after all these years. Took me about 1000 hours to type graduate school research dissertation-no joke-LOL
Shep
Shep
quote:Originally posted by Shepster:
Don't you just love to hear those words reluctantly oozing from the Shep's mouth-LOL
My goal is to get Swingbuster and tom.guerry to say it.
Another thing about that teachersbilliards school of hard-knocks clip I just viewed was the amount of force at impact. So much in fact, he appears to rock back a little as if he is off-balance.
Shep
Shep
Yes linear, I was paying attention to your earlier post explaining where and how you attained your experience. Liked the reda$$ comment even though it made me blush again.
Shep
Shep
I think you like to blush.
Scout
Will he be elected to the HOF?
Will he be elected to the HOF?
Alright now linear, thats not true.
I wonder if I could have hit more than 48 reg. season 5 post season homeruns with some of those S vitamins in two seasons in college-Naww,
that would take away from it.
Shep
I wonder if I could have hit more than 48 reg. season 5 post season homeruns with some of those S vitamins in two seasons in college-Naww,
that would take away from it.
Shep
Only be true to thyself.
I can at least say my power came from proper instruction, collards and chicken and not those type vitamins.
Shep
PS(proper bat angle for LHH is /)
I can at least say my power came from proper instruction, collards and chicken and not those type vitamins.
Shep
PS(proper bat angle for LHH is /)
I feel for all the guys who wouldn't do it and were passed over
Yep
Good point BB. Thousands if not tens of thousands.
Shep
Good point BB. Thousands if not tens of thousands.
Shep
Woops I meant linear.
Shep
Shep
Never forget that during year of strike. Can compare that to Mick's chances to break the record before the knee injury opening the door for the one being chastised RM who broke the previous record of sixty with sixty-one.
Shep
Shep
You guys are too old for me.
BB
That "long stride" was also incredible in the Babe's swing and this is why that was then and this is now.
Shep
PS(Thank You for sharing that)
That "long stride" was also incredible in the Babe's swing and this is why that was then and this is now.
Shep
PS(Thank You for sharing that)
Scout,
My young son who couldn't hit the ball off a T when he was in 9th grade is mashing the ball in the cages (off both Iron Mike machine and me throwing). He's a freshman at a DIII.
Going to be interesting to see how he develops. He's just now "feeling" like he can play.
My young son who couldn't hit the ball off a T when he was in 9th grade is mashing the ball in the cages (off both Iron Mike machine and me throwing). He's a freshman at a DIII.
Going to be interesting to see how he develops. He's just now "feeling" like he can play.
That lunge is the ultimate pelvic load/unload.
We constantly fight the bigger bigger, better better, faster faster syndrome.
By that I mean, he'll get it going, start ripping line drives, one after another, then he tries harder and harder, swings faster and faster, trys to hit 500' HR's until he can't hit a thing.
Then we start all over again. Back off, find the rhythm and after 10 pitches or so he's fine.
Then, faster, faster, better, better, harder, harder.........and we start all over again.
He has to memorize that effort level that brings out the good swing......not the other one.
By that I mean, he'll get it going, start ripping line drives, one after another, then he tries harder and harder, swings faster and faster, trys to hit 500' HR's until he can't hit a thing.
Then we start all over again. Back off, find the rhythm and after 10 pitches or so he's fine.
Then, faster, faster, better, better, harder, harder.........and we start all over again.
He has to memorize that effort level that brings out the good swing......not the other one.
Okay, we can call it the hitters stride then.
Wow it must be 40 to 48inches or more.
Not taking away from my hero though. He is still my hero and I bet he didn't have s vitamins back then. Maybe a few hot dogs and such-lol
Shep
Wow it must be 40 to 48inches or more.
Not taking away from my hero though. He is still my hero and I bet he didn't have s vitamins back then. Maybe a few hot dogs and such-lol
Shep
Posted January 14, 2006 10:56 PM
Extension
Mankin has interesting observation about the finish as far as cues. When he was working on followthrough( which he BTW put little emphasis on except from point of view that it is an indicator point of something else that is maybe not happening.
When working on front leg actio he simply said make sure your back shoulder bceocmes your front at the end. The lead leg functions better and the hips and shoulders flow through. It is a function and mirror image of teh quality of the load /coil.
IWOs it is hard to land the finsih without a good load. Cause and effect
Extension
Mankin has interesting observation about the finish as far as cues. When he was working on followthrough( which he BTW put little emphasis on except from point of view that it is an indicator point of something else that is maybe not happening.
When working on front leg actio he simply said make sure your back shoulder bceocmes your front at the end. The lead leg functions better and the hips and shoulders flow through. It is a function and mirror image of teh quality of the load /coil.
IWOs it is hard to land the finsih without a good load. Cause and effect
BBSCOUT
Great Ruth clip..thanks very much.
again...hitch or movement for purpose?
Watch him flip the bat tip away from his body with his hands / forearms and then load the back scap. What does it do to his hands. It works the bottom hand under the top and gets the bat out of plane to the swing. The bat goes out of the 45 slot and back to the 45 slot. By the time the bat gets pulled back into the same path of momentum of the shoulders; the hips are ahead of the shoulders creating torque. The bottom hand locks into the rotation. IT promotes the alternate loading of the rear then the lead scap and an inside out swing. IT slows the hands (or depending on how you want to look at it) allows more time for the front foot to get down. Torque could be predicted by the the relative position tip of the rear elbow and the open from foot. Put you lead elbow that far back and stride to an open foot and tell me there is no torque in that swing.
This is an example of the "action" in a swing that promotes upper lower body synchronization.
The modern day Pujols shortened that swing but kept the essentials. He
1starts out of the 45 slot with a vertical bat
2. starts bottom hand under top
3. internally rotates elbow in set up
4 coils somewhat in the setup
5. elevates the heel and no stides with rotation
6. reduces the need for forward movement
7. Gets batspeed and quickness with the same motor action
Similarly..he uses bat plane transtion to get inside the ball, load the scaps and slow the hands to get the hips ahead a few frames. Both access torque ..one abbreviates the others key points.
It would be safe to say Pujols strikes out less. THe reason might be the reduction of stride momentum to a slight efficient shift. OBTW...agree that is not a lunge.
Pujols probably drinks less beer before his at bats too.
Great Ruth clip..thanks very much.
again...hitch or movement for purpose?
Watch him flip the bat tip away from his body with his hands / forearms and then load the back scap. What does it do to his hands. It works the bottom hand under the top and gets the bat out of plane to the swing. The bat goes out of the 45 slot and back to the 45 slot. By the time the bat gets pulled back into the same path of momentum of the shoulders; the hips are ahead of the shoulders creating torque. The bottom hand locks into the rotation. IT promotes the alternate loading of the rear then the lead scap and an inside out swing. IT slows the hands (or depending on how you want to look at it) allows more time for the front foot to get down. Torque could be predicted by the the relative position tip of the rear elbow and the open from foot. Put you lead elbow that far back and stride to an open foot and tell me there is no torque in that swing.
This is an example of the "action" in a swing that promotes upper lower body synchronization.
The modern day Pujols shortened that swing but kept the essentials. He
1starts out of the 45 slot with a vertical bat
2. starts bottom hand under top
3. internally rotates elbow in set up
4 coils somewhat in the setup
5. elevates the heel and no stides with rotation
6. reduces the need for forward movement
7. Gets batspeed and quickness with the same motor action
Similarly..he uses bat plane transtion to get inside the ball, load the scaps and slow the hands to get the hips ahead a few frames. Both access torque ..one abbreviates the others key points.
It would be safe to say Pujols strikes out less. THe reason might be the reduction of stride momentum to a slight efficient shift. OBTW...agree that is not a lunge.
Pujols probably drinks less beer before his at bats too.
quote:He has to memorize that effort level that brings out the good swing......not the other one
I agree...very important point. More becomes less sometimes
teacherman-
you asked for "it" :
1- it
2- teacherman IS rightabout some things
but he is wrong on some points and wrong to not be aware of some key points he is therefore unable to take a position on
BBscout and buster-
The G Brett type swingis optimized to take best advantage of Ted Williams suggestion of getting more time by closing the stance and setting your contact points back. Brett,however, had to figure out how to make it workin a full swing.
As buster points out,in golf closing the stance is sometimes used to cure or avoid slicing or to draw the ball (minihook).It works by encouraging the inside out hand/clubpath smilar to "hide hands" cue inhitting. In hitting Bonds, for example has said you close your stance if you want to pull the ball.
If you close the stance, then you have to make some other adjustments.
To not close off the inside location/ to deal with the inside pitch,you have to get off the plate in the stance
Next, for good rotational swing quickness,you must make sure the weight shifts forward and the center of gravity does not fall back before contact.This principle is well known in golf and became an important part of the Lau teaching in hitting. When you close the stance, it discourages the necessary positive move and the swing is forced out too much, losing the inside start crucial to a good load.
Finally, this is a longer (swing radius) swing which creates a heavy load/resistance to rotation,so if coil and connection are not good, the torso can poop out of energy to keep the bat accelerating causing wrist roll compensation- deceleration-reacceleration.LauSr andJr may not completely understand these issues,but they certainly knew how to describe and teach this Brett type swing:
1-strongemphasis on positive move/weight shift
2-strong emphasis on stride then swing with lead arm knob pull and prevention of top hand dominace- this prevents the outsid-in rushed/interrupted swing-
3-lead arm extension and top hand release - this encourages the right ongoing connection/lead arm extension sequence to keep the swing accelerating to contact, avoiding the wrist roll compensation/deceleration/reacceleration or what Lau describes as the 2 piece swing.
If you want to emulate G Brett, follow the Lau advice.
The underlying principles of the swing are best explained in golf by Jones- BOBBY JONES ON GOLF, see for example Chap7 and Chap 9
Perhaps there is another forum for discussing how golf appplies for the few who may be interested.
you asked for "it" :
1- it
2- teacherman IS rightabout some things
but he is wrong on some points and wrong to not be aware of some key points he is therefore unable to take a position on
BBscout and buster-
The G Brett type swingis optimized to take best advantage of Ted Williams suggestion of getting more time by closing the stance and setting your contact points back. Brett,however, had to figure out how to make it workin a full swing.
As buster points out,in golf closing the stance is sometimes used to cure or avoid slicing or to draw the ball (minihook).It works by encouraging the inside out hand/clubpath smilar to "hide hands" cue inhitting. In hitting Bonds, for example has said you close your stance if you want to pull the ball.
If you close the stance, then you have to make some other adjustments.
To not close off the inside location/ to deal with the inside pitch,you have to get off the plate in the stance
Next, for good rotational swing quickness,you must make sure the weight shifts forward and the center of gravity does not fall back before contact.This principle is well known in golf and became an important part of the Lau teaching in hitting. When you close the stance, it discourages the necessary positive move and the swing is forced out too much, losing the inside start crucial to a good load.
Finally, this is a longer (swing radius) swing which creates a heavy load/resistance to rotation,so if coil and connection are not good, the torso can poop out of energy to keep the bat accelerating causing wrist roll compensation- deceleration-reacceleration.LauSr andJr may not completely understand these issues,but they certainly knew how to describe and teach this Brett type swing:
1-strongemphasis on positive move/weight shift
2-strong emphasis on stride then swing with lead arm knob pull and prevention of top hand dominace- this prevents the outsid-in rushed/interrupted swing-
3-lead arm extension and top hand release - this encourages the right ongoing connection/lead arm extension sequence to keep the swing accelerating to contact, avoiding the wrist roll compensation/deceleration/reacceleration or what Lau describes as the 2 piece swing.
If you want to emulate G Brett, follow the Lau advice.
The underlying principles of the swing are best explained in golf by Jones- BOBBY JONES ON GOLF, see for example Chap7 and Chap 9
Perhaps there is another forum for discussing how golf appplies for the few who may be interested.
Williams Clip
Watch and weep.. living proof..best BA means best hitter
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=240&st=0#entry3810803
Watch and weep.. living proof..best BA means best hitter
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=240&st=0#entry3810803
BB
I still say / is the proper bat position for LHH. Ted looks 90 degree almost laying back to 110 degree in this clip. He must be getting bored like some great hitters do and came up with this bat angle to lift ball a little more for distance-lol /LHH>/one more time for the giffer> LHH /is the most accepted bat angle now.
Shep
PS(Certain others on this thread must have notebooks upon notebooks of notes on hitting-Any of that material been published other than Charlie LAU?)
I still say / is the proper bat position for LHH. Ted looks 90 degree almost laying back to 110 degree in this clip. He must be getting bored like some great hitters do and came up with this bat angle to lift ball a little more for distance-lol /LHH>/one more time for the giffer> LHH /is the most accepted bat angle now.
Shep
PS(Certain others on this thread must have notebooks upon notebooks of notes on hitting-Any of that material been published other than Charlie LAU?)
The slash "/" is just a keyboard identifier or extra I invented accidently for use on discussion boards which represents the bat of a LHH in proper position when hands are cocked during the uncoiling of the rotational process.
Should never be less than 70 degrees or bat will be too flat and could be considered wrapping. Think of right arm of LHH in setup. Consider the right arm as bottom line segment of an acute angle seen here /_ You will have to close the corner of /_ to complete acute angle because keyboard won't do so. The top line segment or / should never lean farther down or below 70 degrees in LHH setup or hitter will be considered wrapping bat. IMHO and many others, as well. There are however, exceptions.
It is interesting thinking about what you pointed out last night about stride not being considered lunge. The way you splained it makes perfect sense. The Babe did take a very long stride though but his picture is still by my bed every night and the last thing I look at before I close my eyes.
The one most important conclusion I have drawn many years ago is that every hitter has his own distinct style and approach as a hitter and each individual will have a different unique evaluation. Prognosis will be different for every hitter. Some better than others. LOL
Shep
Should never be less than 70 degrees or bat will be too flat and could be considered wrapping. Think of right arm of LHH in setup. Consider the right arm as bottom line segment of an acute angle seen here /_ You will have to close the corner of /_ to complete acute angle because keyboard won't do so. The top line segment or / should never lean farther down or below 70 degrees in LHH setup or hitter will be considered wrapping bat. IMHO and many others, as well. There are however, exceptions.
It is interesting thinking about what you pointed out last night about stride not being considered lunge. The way you splained it makes perfect sense. The Babe did take a very long stride though but his picture is still by my bed every night and the last thing I look at before I close my eyes.
The one most important conclusion I have drawn many years ago is that every hitter has his own distinct style and approach as a hitter and each individual will have a different unique evaluation. Prognosis will be different for every hitter. Some better than others. LOL
Shep
While reading back through this very informative thread, noticed a post I found very interesting which compared this thread to a coach's encyclopedia on hitting. Would have to agree in a positive way from emails and response thereof-lol
The funniest thing I have seen in this thread, which there are many, was one of our beloved contributers begging for forgiveness while removing info ITS had requested to be removed.
Sounded like James Earl Jones in Field of Dreams
its-
done.
bad show.
just couldn't resist.
Will try to turn over a new leaf.
Hilarious-LOL
No pun, Just Fun
Shep
The funniest thing I have seen in this thread, which there are many, was one of our beloved contributers begging for forgiveness while removing info ITS had requested to be removed.
Sounded like James Earl Jones in Field of Dreams
its-
done.
bad show.
just couldn't resist.
Will try to turn over a new leaf.
Hilarious-LOL
No pun, Just Fun
Shep
BB BTW
The 90 to 110 degrees I refered to in comment on Ted's homerun would be considered right or obtuse angle which is also incorrect in proper bat position. But like I mentioned a long time ago, whatever works consistently at highest level for each individual.
Shep
PS(hey Tom)
The 90 to 110 degrees I refered to in comment on Ted's homerun would be considered right or obtuse angle which is also incorrect in proper bat position. But like I mentioned a long time ago, whatever works consistently at highest level for each individual.
Shep
PS(hey Tom)
http://www.******.com/forums/showthread.php?p=59074#post59074
I'd be getting nervous if I were you buster.
Of course, you'll have to take out the stars (******) and put in s e t p r o for the link to work.
I'd be getting nervous if I were you buster.
Of course, you'll have to take out the stars (******) and put in s e t p r o for the link to work.
I don't go there... booted once for no reason..won't visit again.....
there are plenty of people more than willing to tell me how ****** hits.
Scott( ssarge) had a nice post confirming scap loading and what happens to the bat barrel plane. At least he got it right. That is what I was asking for almost a month.
I assumed Paul had it wrong ;maybe it was just you...that WOULD make more sense
Ssarge said
"
A hitter w/ proper upper body load WILL have a bat roughly vertical, and slanted back towards the pitcher. From the profile view, the bat is at an angle roughly parallel to the front upper arm (between shoulder and elbow). The bat is vertical - or close to it - roughly parallel to where a vertical line on the back of a football helmet would be.
I wrote"
First person that has acknowledged that in 700 post on HSBBWEB besides Tom. Were doing better already SCOTT. I feel like I just had a cold beer and a hot shower"
Good news bad news facts :
27 million people play baseball/ softball
99.99% don't know any of the internet instructors we talk about.
44, 000 people in my town and not three know or ever heard of one batting instructor.
Linear...nobody( 99.999%) really cares about the CONTENT about who said what on the internet....
Lastly,
Epstein/Mankin vs Ny-man discussions are the key to their continued success. What is good without bad, Auburn without Alabama, republicans with no democrats. Human nature is to take sides and debate.
Heck, I was beginning to get real bored without you.....
Where else can Ny-man get that much exposure free. I buy ads with money and he is on every page of Eteamz free every single day.
Do you know what an Eteamz add package cost?
THere is no such thing as bad publicity. He wrote the post with the shock factor about Steve E.. He is dumb like the proverbial FOX. Don't believe everything you read
If he just had a $29.00 CD we would make $1,000,000 in two years.....that I cannot understand.
there are plenty of people more than willing to tell me how ****** hits.
Scott( ssarge) had a nice post confirming scap loading and what happens to the bat barrel plane. At least he got it right. That is what I was asking for almost a month.
I assumed Paul had it wrong ;maybe it was just you...that WOULD make more sense
Ssarge said
"
A hitter w/ proper upper body load WILL have a bat roughly vertical, and slanted back towards the pitcher. From the profile view, the bat is at an angle roughly parallel to the front upper arm (between shoulder and elbow). The bat is vertical - or close to it - roughly parallel to where a vertical line on the back of a football helmet would be.
I wrote"
First person that has acknowledged that in 700 post on HSBBWEB besides Tom. Were doing better already SCOTT. I feel like I just had a cold beer and a hot shower"
Good news bad news facts :
27 million people play baseball/ softball
99.99% don't know any of the internet instructors we talk about.
44, 000 people in my town and not three know or ever heard of one batting instructor.
Linear...nobody( 99.999%) really cares about the CONTENT about who said what on the internet....
Lastly,
Epstein/Mankin vs Ny-man discussions are the key to their continued success. What is good without bad, Auburn without Alabama, republicans with no democrats. Human nature is to take sides and debate.
Heck, I was beginning to get real bored without you.....
Where else can Ny-man get that much exposure free. I buy ads with money and he is on every page of Eteamz free every single day.
Do you know what an Eteamz add package cost?
THere is no such thing as bad publicity. He wrote the post with the shock factor about Steve E.. He is dumb like the proverbial FOX. Don't believe everything you read
If he just had a $29.00 CD we would make $1,000,000 in two years.....that I cannot understand.
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:
A hitter w/ proper upper body load WILL have a bat roughly vertical, and slanted back towards the pitcher. From the profile view, the bat is at an angle roughly parallel to the front upper arm (between shoulder and elbow). The bat is vertical - or close to it - roughly parallel to where a vertical line on the back of a football helmet would be.
I see no mention of the bottom hand working under the top hand. Do you? Maybe you should look deeper as to how that bat points toward the pitcher.
I see no mention of arm action.
I guarantee you looked, too.
a bat roughly vertical, and slanted back towards the pitcher. From the profile view, the bat is at an angle roughly parallel to the front upper arm (between shoulder and elbow). The bat is vertical - or close to it - roughly parallel to where a vertical line on the back of a football helmet would be.
Why did you not acknowledge that even when I said it over and over...I don't think you thought it was part of the loading process.
THat was my WHOLE POINT FOR A MONTH
I see no mention of the bottom hand working under the top hand. Do you?
It happens..it is a golf cue...increases club head speed and hand release. Golf pre-dates baseball by a few years.
I see no mention of arm action.[/quote]
Semantics..elbow positional change moves arm hence arm action..
How do you define arm action???? Please answer
Besides... why must my language match ....who's.
Key point..bat barrel moves to vertical when the scaps load ...now you know it and you will help kids better...My mission is complete
"I guarantee you looked, too
Wrong twice!!
Why did you not acknowledge that even when I said it over and over...I don't think you thought it was part of the loading process.
THat was my WHOLE POINT FOR A MONTH
I see no mention of the bottom hand working under the top hand. Do you?
It happens..it is a golf cue...increases club head speed and hand release. Golf pre-dates baseball by a few years.
I see no mention of arm action.[/quote]
Semantics..elbow positional change moves arm hence arm action..
How do you define arm action???? Please answer
Besides... why must my language match ....who's.
Key point..bat barrel moves to vertical when the scaps load ...now you know it and you will help kids better...My mission is complete
"I guarantee you looked, too
Wrong twice!!
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:
Why did you not acknowledge that even when I said it over and over...I don't think you thought it was part of the loading process.
THat was my WHOLE POINT FOR A MONTH...
Very simple. It was never the issue. The issue is how you describe the hands. It plain and simple doesn't work that way.
Bonds, my favorite, tips his bat. Pujols, another favorite, tips his bat. In fact, I posted Pujols and said I saw no arm action. Never said anything about the bat tip because it was never in question. How the bat tips is the question.
You accused me of never acknlowledging the bat tip before. I quoted myself saying of course it does/can....that it is an "advance" move, not done with the hand and it is an add on.
All that being said, many mlb hitters do not tip the bat. Therefore, it is not an absolute like you claim. It is an add on after they learn to rotate from their center. It has nothing to do with helping them load/unload their center.
A good scap load, like Pujols for example, can do the bat tip thing. It is not done with the bottom hand working under the top hand.
Tipping was never the issue.
Your analysis of how it happens is deeply flawed.
Wow,
That is a two-way conversation. Any comment on my obtuse angle
J should charge ya'll rent. Do you have unlimited nights and weekends?
Sheppy
That is a two-way conversation. Any comment on my obtuse angle
J should charge ya'll rent. Do you have unlimited nights and weekends?
Sheppy
quote:It has nothing to do with helping them load/unload their center.
Baloney... the load has everything with the above.
everybody doesn't start in stages
Shep...obtuse....splain..
Bat / forearm 90 degree & lead elbow 90degree in my model
The film with Ted W. had him laying the bat down backwards away from 90 degree rather than forward.
I contend this is simply an adjustment made by Ted to lift ball more for HR distance opposed to those numerous liners and ground balls he had been hitting in some earlier film I've had the privilage of viewing.
Forget obtuse, I just came up with that from teaching school as analogy for better understanding.
Shep
I contend this is simply an adjustment made by Ted to lift ball more for HR distance opposed to those numerous liners and ground balls he had been hitting in some earlier film I've had the privilage of viewing.
Forget obtuse, I just came up with that from teaching school as analogy for better understanding.
Shep
In fact, this adjustment wasn't made till after the war. Think he might off taken on some schrapnel or something? LOL
Seriously, instructors probably advised him to start laying bat back a little like an instructor asked me to do when I had drilled the wall about 10 times in one week-sad but true.
Missed that many more HRs that year that could have been very interesting in larger scheme. Guess thats why so interested. Wouldn't want anybody else to "not" obtain maximum results from power and distance.
Shep
Seriously, instructors probably advised him to start laying bat back a little like an instructor asked me to do when I had drilled the wall about 10 times in one week-sad but true.
Missed that many more HRs that year that could have been very interesting in larger scheme. Guess thats why so interested. Wouldn't want anybody else to "not" obtain maximum results from power and distance.
Shep
Buster,
Waiting for you to post your swing over at the hitting site.
You're awfully critical of N Y M A N S....let's see yours.
Waiting for you to post your swing over at the hitting site.
You're awfully critical of N Y M A N S....let's see yours.
Good night now ladies and gentlemen.
May God Bless you all.
Shep's Moment of the Day
May God Bless you all.
Shep's Moment of the Day
quote:Good night now ladies and gentlemen.
May God Bless you all. clever-man2.gif
Shep's Moment of the Day
And the HSBBWeb's Moment of the Day, Shepp saying goodnight.
quote:You're awfully critical of N Y M A N S....
Not so .......your confusing me with one of several hundreds others that did however. NO point leaving a lob shot chest high at the net Linear without ducking.
I might send you a clip of a good player( 18) that is working to improve. Maybe you can help out>
Epstein told me when your talking swing mechanics never swing a bat or all they see is your swing and never hear the message. **** either learned that the hard way or maybe the truth is it doesn't matter for the people that read his stuff.
**** might do it differently looking back. In his defense; when you get 50 your swing might be pretty good but I guarantee with your loss of flexability you will look like your picture on your drivers license. Remember the older Arnold Palmer...still shooting par but it looked different
Swingbuster
I, personally, have a problem with the comparison of a golf swing to a baseball swing
I find the two similar in some fashion but totally different in many others
Lets see if I can explain myself without physics/scvientific terms and claymation models
01-- a golf swing does not involve the body motion that a baseball swing does
02-- in golf you are swinging at a stationary ball at your feet while in baseball you are swinging at a moving ball somewhere around waist high--thus for me the plane of the swing is totally distinct to each swing.
03-- the rhythm of the baseball swing is totally different than in golf--in baseball you need to react to the pitch with the body taking it cue from the brain/eye mechanism-- not so in golf
Just a few thoughts from an old baseball guy here and to cite a statement from Joe Torre who is a golf fanantic " How come I can't break 100 in golf and I could hit .300 in baseball?"-- Two totally differenty actions and I include Brain/eye connection in the term body
I, personally, have a problem with the comparison of a golf swing to a baseball swing
I find the two similar in some fashion but totally different in many others
Lets see if I can explain myself without physics/scvientific terms and claymation models
01-- a golf swing does not involve the body motion that a baseball swing does
02-- in golf you are swinging at a stationary ball at your feet while in baseball you are swinging at a moving ball somewhere around waist high--thus for me the plane of the swing is totally distinct to each swing.
03-- the rhythm of the baseball swing is totally different than in golf--in baseball you need to react to the pitch with the body taking it cue from the brain/eye mechanism-- not so in golf
Just a few thoughts from an old baseball guy here and to cite a statement from Joe Torre who is a golf fanantic " How come I can't break 100 in golf and I could hit .300 in baseball?"-- Two totally differenty actions and I include Brain/eye connection in the term body
Thanks 3000...I'm back-LOL
Eh, why don't you head back north to your igloo.
The Canadian forum, I think it is-LOL
Have a great day,
Shep
Eh, why don't you head back north to your igloo.
The Canadian forum, I think it is-LOL
Have a great day,
Shep
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:quote:You're awfully critical of N Y M A N S....
Not so .......your confusing me with one of several hundreds others that did however.
"ted ...your killin me man...LOL LOL LOL"
Your words in response to Ted who criticized *****. In the context of the discussion it was very clear that you agreed with him and enjoyed his point.
Dishonest again buster?
quote:Epstein told me when your talking swing mechanics never swing a bat or all they see is your swing and never hear the message.
A better explanation comes from Epsteins tag line only slightly different.
"Maybe his swing doesn't match what he teaches"
And if the can duplicate what they see, why not show em?
quote:Dishonest again buster?
I was laughing at a discriptive set of terms written by someone else because it was funny... no crime in that . Show me the post where I critcized his swing or lose the point.
tick, tick tick....
Game, set, match again.....
Your just a spoon stirring **** all the time.
Who made you you the internet judge, jury, psychic, lawyer , and police, knowing everyone's intent, cryptic thoughts anyway....
Show me where I wrote that Paul had a bad swing......waiting..be accurate please .
Maybe you should slap Ted's wrist
no intellectual integrity at all!!!!!!!!!
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:quote:Dishonest again buster?
I was laughing at a discriptive set of terms written by someone else because it was funny... no crime in that . Show me the post where I critcized his swing or lose the point.
I'll just post the link and let the readers decide the context of the statement.
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Hitting/index.php?showtopic=238&st=15&#last
Well if you think it was bad manners why do you keep promoting and republishing the idea.. Your a big help to the man.
Go to the battle field and keep shooting the wounded.
You trying to help him or hurt him? Or maybe your one of the plants to him keep his name out there. Business is business but I don't have any of those.
Why did Paul's lead story that he wrote and published on the internet ( that Shawn introduced to us) have such controvery?
Your saying it was not to draw attention to himself? If you believe that your not weaned yet. Heck of a way to keep a low profile...just staying at home minding his own business huh?
What do you get for each DVD sold Linear being a plant and promote guy? I hope he makes millions if that is his goal. Makes NO difference to me. What is your motivation or manipulation...which is it?
MAybe he needs to send Tom and I a check too
Go to the battle field and keep shooting the wounded.
You trying to help him or hurt him? Or maybe your one of the plants to him keep his name out there. Business is business but I don't have any of those.
Why did Paul's lead story that he wrote and published on the internet ( that Shawn introduced to us) have such controvery?
Your saying it was not to draw attention to himself? If you believe that your not weaned yet. Heck of a way to keep a low profile...just staying at home minding his own business huh?
What do you get for each DVD sold Linear being a plant and promote guy? I hope he makes millions if that is his goal. Makes NO difference to me. What is your motivation or manipulation...which is it?
MAybe he needs to send Tom and I a check too
I'm starting to see too many *****'s in here. Therefor I nominate this thread to be inducted into the Golden Threads forum! 
quote:Eh, why don't you head back north to your igloo.
The Canadian forum, I think it is-LOL
I'm waiting for someone to reply!!!!
Mr 3000
welcome to the fray ...jump in the waters fine..
I'm Ny-man neutral...use some of his stuff; use others stuff too
Just trying to get an original thought from Linear.....its been almost 30 days
He has never started a sentence about hitting mechanics with "this is what I think happens"
welcome to the fray ...jump in the waters fine..
I'm Ny-man neutral...use some of his stuff; use others stuff too
Just trying to get an original thought from Linear.....its been almost 30 days
He has never started a sentence about hitting mechanics with "this is what I think happens"
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:
Well if you think it was bad manners why do you keep promoting and republishing the idea.. Your a big help to the man.
Go to the battle field and keep shooting the wounded.
You trying to help him or hurt him? Or maybe your one of the plants to him keep his name out there. Business is business but I don't have any of those.
Why did Paul's lead story that he wrote and published on the internet ( that Shawn introduced to us) have such controvery?
Your saying it was not to draw attention to himself? If you believe that your not weaned yet. Heck of a way to keep a low profile...just staying at home minding his own business huh?
What do you get for each DVD sold Linear being a plant and promote guy? I hope he makes millions if that is his goal. Makes NO difference to me. What is your motivation or manipulation...which is it?
MAybe he needs to send Tom and I a check too
Bob & Weave. Serpentine. Change the subject.
Anything to save face when your theory can't deal with the questions.
I'm doing my best to stay on "hitting". You are doing your best to go to the traits of the messenger.
You criticized his swing by your statement. Nothing wrong with that. He is over 50. I'm just asking for your swing.....to be fair. Maybe we should all get a look at it. Then we can talk about who better demonstrates the high level swing.
If that was the benchmark then the bar was set way too low.
But of course mine would be posted against a 25 year old MLB player in about 5 minutes frame by frame.
Lucky that didn't happen to him
He has good thoughts he just did not demo them as I recall. Since you have access to so many comparatives why not post it again for us
But of course mine would be posted against a 25 year old MLB player in about 5 minutes frame by frame.
Lucky that didn't happen to him
He has good thoughts he just did not demo them as I recall. Since you have access to so many comparatives why not post it again for us
Duck, squirm....
I,ve been lurking since 1999.... reading and learning about the swing...must say I have enjoyed reading the thoughts of Teacherman/Linear....Swingbuster etc. I had never heard of rotational hittng etc. Have since spent many hours studying Mankin/Epstein/Nyma* etc. All thanks to you guys... My 08 and 2012 son's have been the beneficiaries and my 2001 son is ticked that we did not have the info his brothers now have, via the internet and HSBBW. I've never felt need to post until now.... Will you guys please get back to the disecting the swing instead of each other......Thanks
It's not only free but it needs to fit your time schedule?
Good point.....
Troy99,
"Will you guys please get back to dissecting the swing instead of each other......"
Very good point!
"Will you guys please get back to dissecting the swing instead of each other......"
Very good point!
Troy,
Agree with MN-Mom. These fellas occasionally lose sight of the intent of this website. They use it for their own personal battles - which is extremely selfish.
They really do need to contribute information and insight - and cut back on the gladiator stuff.
When it gets real bad - we just erase their posts - and move on. Although we would prefer not to.
Enjoy the site - It is the BEST!
Agree with MN-Mom. These fellas occasionally lose sight of the intent of this website. They use it for their own personal battles - which is extremely selfish.
They really do need to contribute information and insight - and cut back on the gladiator stuff.
When it gets real bad - we just erase their posts - and move on. Although we would prefer not to.
Enjoy the site - It is the BEST!
its....
I have learned a lot from this thread. It was a informative rush getting me primed for practice that started today.
I must share again that we start on line drive drill off a tee to the back of a batting cage. The kids tell me they "get it better than ever " with this approach.
For coaches with kids that aren't up to speed yet try this drill. It is simple and amazingly captivating for even seniors. I talked to other coaches that do it.
When you learn how to make them accomplish this goal they will have good swings.
Sorry for the departure from good posting form. I know some people have gotten food for thought though.
This site would be boring without Linear and the traffic would drop by half
Thats because half of it is his....couldn't resist
I have learned a lot from this thread. It was a informative rush getting me primed for practice that started today.
I must share again that we start on line drive drill off a tee to the back of a batting cage. The kids tell me they "get it better than ever " with this approach.
For coaches with kids that aren't up to speed yet try this drill. It is simple and amazingly captivating for even seniors. I talked to other coaches that do it.
When you learn how to make them accomplish this goal they will have good swings.
Sorry for the departure from good posting form. I know some people have gotten food for thought though.
This site would be boring without Linear and the traffic would drop by half
Thats because half of it is his....couldn't resist
quote:Originally posted by swingbuster:
This site would be boring without Linear and the traffic would drop by half
Throw your hitting opinions and suggestions out there - and leave the Nielsen ratings to others.
can someone give me a summmary as to what has happend in this post?
i just decied to look at it today and i don't think i can read all 980+ posts on here.
thx in advanced
i just decied to look at it today and i don't think i can read all 980+ posts on here.
thx in advanced
quote:can someone give me a summmary as to what has happend in this post?
I described how to load where the bat went vertical and plane transition and hand torque sent the bat in a circular pattern to make kids better hitters and finally a guy at eteamz agreed.
Linear appologized and said we were all right but him and he gets it now and he would never give a short answer again as he has learned his manners. MN- Mom and Its complimented us on our gentlemanly behavior. And then practice began.
Was that a dream...........
Good luck on your season
Thanks swingbuster
And bbscout i will try to but that is going to take me a very long time and this is my "finals" week so i will be mentally drained by the time this week is over.
Hope everybody has a great year this year.
And bbscout i will try to but that is going to take me a very long time and this is my "finals" week so i will be mentally drained by the time this week is over.
Hope everybody has a great year this year.
Wanted to sneak this "Hitting" blurb into this record setting hitting thread.
Am reading a great book and the author has said his guru was Casey Stengel. This commentary is from Casey:
Let me show you what a smart man I was. We're playing the Cardinals and they got this kid, just up from the minors at the end of the year. I know all about his record and how he's supposed to be a great left-handed hitter and all. But he's a kid. And I know how it is with kids, they can all hit fastballs, but they can't hit the soft stuff, because they've just come from the minors and who's down there that's a good experienced pitcher and knows how to mix it up, right? So he's been looking at fastballs and wild men and now I tell my pitcher, don't worry about it, just give him those little soft curves and he'll break his back swinging at it---and he hit two singles and two doubles off my pitcher, and that's when I figured out this Mr. Musial was a pretty good hitter whether he was young and had seen pitching or not!
Am reading a great book and the author has said his guru was Casey Stengel. This commentary is from Casey:
Let me show you what a smart man I was. We're playing the Cardinals and they got this kid, just up from the minors at the end of the year. I know all about his record and how he's supposed to be a great left-handed hitter and all. But he's a kid. And I know how it is with kids, they can all hit fastballs, but they can't hit the soft stuff, because they've just come from the minors and who's down there that's a good experienced pitcher and knows how to mix it up, right? So he's been looking at fastballs and wild men and now I tell my pitcher, don't worry about it, just give him those little soft curves and he'll break his back swinging at it---and he hit two singles and two doubles off my pitcher, and that's when I figured out this Mr. Musial was a pretty good hitter whether he was young and had seen pitching or not!
Chill
Stan Musial was a great young hitter that could hit anything you threw but bet Mr. Stengal realized this before Musial-lol
Best regards to Chill and family.
Shep
Stan Musial was a great young hitter that could hit anything you threw but bet Mr. Stengal realized this before Musial-lol
Best regards to Chill and family.
Shep
Hey Shepster,
You have a new PM.
Thanks
You have a new PM.
Thanks
Donny
If you know so much why are you always looking for confirmation.
Batspeed, here, shawns site......always looking for someone to say "I agree". Always looking for confirmation. Even if the "confirmer" is clueless.
The answer you are looking for as to why your hitters don't feel like they work when they rotate is very simple. And, it's the reason yours will fall out of the food chain earlier than they should.
If you know so much why are you always looking for confirmation.
Batspeed, here, shawns site......always looking for someone to say "I agree". Always looking for confirmation. Even if the "confirmer" is clueless.
The answer you are looking for as to why your hitters don't feel like they work when they rotate is very simple. And, it's the reason yours will fall out of the food chain earlier than they should.
Linear
(read fast>You are asking for it aren't ya?JK
Who you mean when you say clueless-JK LOL
(read fast>
You are asking for it aren't ya?JKWho you mean when you say clueless-JK LOL
Did you happen to notice two threads I pulled from distant past on hitting?
I think your in there somewhere or another.
Shep
I think your in there somewhere or another.
Shep
Linear...where have you been? called to a Ny-man inner circle meeting. Getting detailed on the new product.
Set-Pro SPRT5A REACTION TRAINER, VIPER-RT VISION-REACTION TRAINER, VO-RFD-1HP-6 BALLISTIC SWING TRAINING KIT $847.00
You can see free clips with him using it in a 5 part series on the site...I did look and watch it.
I might get you one for Valantines Day...can I borrow $847.00
Guess Jack wouldn't post all of your replies...wonder why...you blocked there too. Good thing MN-MOM is patient you might have to buy stamps to write people
Set-Pro SPRT5A REACTION TRAINER, VIPER-RT VISION-REACTION TRAINER, VO-RFD-1HP-6 BALLISTIC SWING TRAINING KIT $847.00
You can see free clips with him using it in a 5 part series on the site...I did look and watch it.
I might get you one for Valantines Day...can I borrow $847.00
Guess Jack wouldn't post all of your replies...wonder why...you blocked there too. Good thing MN-MOM is patient you might have to buy stamps to write people
singbuster you have a pm.
Swingbuster
How are you tonight, sir? Enjoyed surfing your site earlier and learned alot to say the least and like your humble no-nonsense style. You are good for baseball says the Shep and I respect you immensely and I am serious about learning more.
Found out last night how well RS from California was doing and think that is great also. Gotta love it!
Read Your Earlier Posts!
Keep it coming!
The board needs good hitting instruction from one of the "good guys".
Sincerely,
Shep
How are you tonight, sir? Enjoyed surfing your site earlier and learned alot to say the least and like your humble no-nonsense style. You are good for baseball says the Shep and I respect you immensely and I am serious about learning more.
Found out last night how well RS from California was doing and think that is great also. Gotta love it!
Read Your Earlier Posts!
Keep it coming!
The board needs good hitting instruction from one of the "good guys".
Sincerely,
Shep
thanks shep...
Things are going well and life begins at 50 right?
Things are going well and life begins at 50 right?
You got it Swing!!!
Our best years are ahead of us. 50 is just a number-LOL
Just like a 1000 posts-LOL
You have the right idea "help kids". Learned that from you sir.
Shep Cares too!
Our best years are ahead of us. 50 is just a number-LOL
Just like a 1000 posts-LOL
You have the right idea "help kids". Learned that from you sir.
Shep Cares too!
quote:The most overlooked area in hitting is correct timing - or to say it another way "timing the pitcher". Most batters are late in their swing. I do not care how good your swing mechanics are - if you are late getting your front foot down - you will have a hard time hitting the ball. Again timing is a very critical part of hitting that is overlooked.
Passion for the game??? I believe it!!!! This was a great post and has been a frequent point of discussion of late.
Appreciate Useful info.,
Thanks Passion!
Shep
Thanks Sand BB and Linear
Got plenty more where this one came from so all of ya'll need to get ready for a steady stream of good ole analysis.
Shep
how far he hit that because that is a perfect swing
Swing
How long ago was this videotaped?
Shep Cares
Thanks to everyone who triggered this loaded discussion. i have 17 8 1/2 x 11 pages of purest wheat seperated from the [lets see, 50 times an average of 8 pages per equals 400 pages] chaff over which i will ruminate nightly. After serious and considered thought i will integrate the new lessons learned [hopefully few but only time will tell] gleaned from those pages into my own long studied, private but constantly evolving hitting philosophy. Then and only then will i stride up to my 17 year old high school junior what it is that i have been incorrectly teaching him since he was 3. Thanks again to all and may egos reign for out of chaos comes creativity.
This is my fav though.
Thank you BB, you da man.
