HS Coach - Different Thread

Tell him to miss all the games for the hs or make all the games for the hs. His choice.

...and they say HS baseball is not in trouble.

I agree with BigHit15...make a choice. But if you choose "select" what is your answer when a college coach asks, "Why didn't you play for your HS team?"

I'm not sure its easy to answer that question without sounding "me, me, me" about it.

In California, you can not play on another team during that sports season (CIF rules). They got it right here.

Do areas outside of my area (Northern CA) have decent 15-18 year club teams and tournaments that compete with the HS baseball season? Outside of this board I have never heard of this being a widespread problem in my area except in s****r and volleyball.

Isn't there a time in the HS years where you have to learn that some issues require committment. I've always felt that there is no "I" on a HS team, you are there or you are not there.

In the HS hockey world there are 2 distinct teams. Hs and Select and there is no overlap.

What state is this? I don't know of any state where they don't have guidelines prohibiting even practicing with select teams while the high school season is ongoing.

I know of no select coach who would advocate a player miss his SCHOOL game. None who are reputable.

My experience was coaches saying to finish hs season. One of my son's teams ended up in the Connie Mack WS, but my son didn't join the team until after they lost in the final four of state at the end of June.

I would not play for a coach who advocated or ALLOWED a plyer to miss his hs game. jmo

quote:

Originally posted by Bighit15:
Tell him to miss all the games for the hs or make all the games for the hs. His choice.

Right on Bighit.

Here, there's no competition between select teams and HS ball except perhaps in the summer with HS programs that prefer to keep all their kids together on the same summer team. IMO, a good select/summer coach tells his players that he will see them when their HS season is over. HS ball is a very important part of a player's life in these parts.

In NH and Mass, rules are you cannot play for any other team during your HS season. Players found to be in violation face an initial 2 week or 4 game suspension (whichever is shorter) and penalties get more severe from there.

I'm with the others - play every game for the HS or none at all.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rules to prohibit this are good...however, out here in California in other sports...the teams are starting to "beat" the rules by not participating. I.E. A local top-flight girls HS s****r team stepped OUT of the HS season, en masse, in order to just do their thing on their own and not worry about the HS rules.

If you think it cannot happen to baseball, you are mistaken. I know parents already considering it and some of the posts above demonstrate it is already happening in some places.

This was, in part, the basis of my earlier thread "Is HS baseball in trouble?"

sluggo!!!
You seriously need to look at UIL rules, or if a private school TAPPS.
HS players are prohibited from playing anything other than HS ball from Jan thru the end of the particular HS's run at or in the playoffs.
Fall select is allowed, as there is no conflict with the "season".
High School in Texas is 9th thru 12th grades...maybe the 14 yr old you refer to is in Jr. High...but he AIN'T in HS, or on a HS team & missing HS spring season, or he AND the coach will be missing more than a "few games next spring".
Further, none of the HS (15U-18U) select teams from ANY league (BBI, Kyle Chapman, Lone Star, etc) in Houston, Dallas-Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, Lubbock areas even start till late May, after the last HS season game!

So, what HS is this?

www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/manuals
www.uil.utexas.edu/athletics/rules/index.html


Bighit15, you know the law...I mean rules of UIL. A hs player is not allowed to be on a hs team & play select during the HS season...

quote:

Originally posted by Bighit15:
Tell him to miss all the games for the hs or make all the games for the hs. His choice.

Pretty simple choice. Bingo!

quote:

the team is 14U, the other kids are not in HS yet

Here is the snafu. This kid is still eligible to play 14U select ball which often does conflict with school ball at the HS (and at Jr Hi if the school has a program) because most 14 year olds aren't in HS yet and have only select or league ball to worry about. BTW, my previous post referred to my son's JR Hi school team, not a HS team. At 15U the select teams begin at the end of the HS season in order to avoid conflicts with the ball team.

Unfortunately there are no select teams at 14U that delay the season until after May in my area. You're committed to a team by October, or you have missed the boat.

I think the bottom line is: coaches should do what's best for their team. If sluggo feels having this kid on the team would create apathy and anarchy among the other players, or it violates a HS ball rule, then he should tell the kid adios. My kid's coach felt otherwise, and it turned out to be a win-win for everyone.

HS ball come's first, No matter what.
It's just the way it should be.
It's only a 3 month commitment each Spring.
The Player's still in School no big deal.
Plenty of time in the Summer for select ball.

What is the select ball coach worried that maybe he won't win one
of the 9 million World Series Championship's that are out there??? EH

quillgirl, my point exactly...

quote:

team is 14U, the other kids are not in HS yet

Sounds like this kid is "playing down" or atleast trying to...
If he is in HS, regardless of his age (14?), (9th thru 12th), the governing body of HS sports in Texas, University Athletic League, UIL, will not permit a member of a HS team sport to play outside the HS program during the season the sport is played. Age factors in at a cut off of 19 prior to the first day of school of students' Senior year.

Something in sluggo's scenario doesn't add up...It would be unwise to attempt to "beat the system", so to speak. or the student will wind up inelligible, the program santioned, yadda, yadda, yadda.
As far as the select coach allowing a 14 yr old, who happens to be a high schooler, to play on the 14U team...he should release him to the HS...the parents ought to know better, too.

I looked at UIL website. In the 2006 - 2007 Baseball Manual, on page 43, Item 12 it states that a player is allowed to tryout, practice and/or play on teams outside of school.

I am not arguing here, I just do not see anywhere where such a thing is forbidden by UIL.

EH/Big Hit::


say no more!!

High School baseball is important, and no player should consider himself above playing HS ball during the spring. In California, there are rules forbidding a student/athlete who is playing for his HS team from participating in games for any other team that is playing in the same sport at the same time. As a result, you generally don't see travel baseball teams out here in the spring above the 14u age level.

The summer season is another story, and conflicts can and do arise then, due to HS coaches wanting "their" players to stay with the HS summer team, and summer travel coaches wanting the kids who play with them to actually show up for their games. It can be too much for some kids.

Personally, I wouldn't take a kid for summer ball who skipped his HS spring team if he felt he was above playing for his school.

sluggo,
I went & read the manual, too. I stand corrected.
I'd suggest the parents contact UIL for clarification, anyway.
I'd have reservations about my son doing both...and about the coach.

Wow is Right! My sons HS coach makes it pretty simple. No practicing or playing with any other team during the season.

Life's full of choices so now that the player is in hs real life begins so they need to make a choice. Can't imagine the precedent if you would allow this

quote:

Originally posted by justbaseball:
Rules to prohibit this are good...however, out here in California in other sports...the teams are starting to "beat" the rules by not participating. I.E. A local top-flight girls HS s****r team stepped OUT of the HS season, en masse, in order to just do their thing on their own and not worry about the HS rules.
so the CIF allows participation in club s****r and hs s****r at the sametime.
If you think it cannot happen to baseball, you are mistaken. I know parents already considering it and some of the posts above demonstrate it is already happening in some places.

This was, in part, the basis of my earlier thread "Is HS baseball in trouble?"

I don't see baseball or basketball going in that direction. S****r and volleyball(?) are the exception to the usual dual participation rules in CA.

The reason s****r players can play club and HS s****r at the same time is because California does not have a unified "s****r season." i.e. in the NCS redwood empire boys s****r is in the fall, girls in the spring and I think the eastbay NCS plays both boys and girls s****r during the winter. Until s****r has a unified season (likely winter) the CIF can't prohibit dual particpation as it wouldn't be fair to the kids playing on club teams that conflict with HS schedule. i.e. the kids you mention leaving a HS in mass to play club were probebely on a HS s****r team playing in the fall (during all of the big club s****r tournments) and the section or school told them they wouldn't adjust the hs schedule to avoid conflicts.

CollegeParent - The girls s****r team I was talking about checked out of the Winter HS season to train..."to train for the big" opportunities on a national level...not even to play games but to "train!"...the team was in the Central Coast Section (CCS).

More and more parents where I live are talking about not playing HS baseball anymore because its just becoming "rec. ball" (their words, not mine). Its being discussed and if they could find someone to play, they probably would have already done it.

You need to commit....to one team....and in our case it was always school first.....think one of the things we have appreciated most in son's baseball experiences is the bonding that goes on between his teammates....and....none of them would have appreciated him showing up 90% of the time....

I'd imagine the parents will be "awakened" as to the meaning of Team in a few months...
He may wind up "a bump on the bench".

Parents can be hazardous to players & programs.

In our area, the select teams honor the high school season. Now in the case of this slightly older player still playing with players not yet in HS you have a different scenario. This has had the possiblity of happening in our area before, but my sons HS coach makes sure that everyone understands the rule, HS first during the season or don't bother to show for tryouts. The first time this kid didn't show for a JV game to play for an AAU team, he wouldn't play for this coach again. Most likely he wouldn't play for any other coach in the local area either as none that I know want a non committed player. Now if he was going to pitch on a weekend, and the coach wasn't projecting him as an early week starter and he asked the coach first, then ok (for the JV level only - for varsity it is HS only).

Anyway we have very few of these incidents as all the boys I know love to play HS ball because of the cross town rivalry, wearing jerseys to class the day of a game, the announcements at school before the game, the announcements the day after a game (if they win or someone has a big day or sets a record), ribbing their select teammates if they beat their HS team, and of course the girls that come to watch the games.

quote:

..we have very few of these incidents as all the boys I know love to play HS ball because of the cross town rivalry, wearing jerseys to class the day of a game, the announcements at school before the game, the announcements the day after a game (if they win or someone has a big day or sets a record), ribbing their select teammates if they beat their HS team, and of course the girls that come to watch the games.

I wish it were like this at our school! Baseball gets too little respect...

noticed that sluggo deleted his/her most recent post...
Sluggo, you said it all!
I wish the kid luck. But HE needs to be deciding...
hs is the time for parents to step back a bit & allow the player to become his own "director" , so to speak.

in my opinion the more important team is your high school team.you only get 4 years to represent your school.the college coaches i have talked to are concerned with your high schoolk season,because it's a time that you have to balance school work with baseball. just like in college.
no summer team that i ever heard of lets or advocates kids missing the high school season.unless maybe this team has no high school players?

20dad,
I believe that's the scenario: the select team is a 14U with no high school players so it doesn't conflict with HS for anyone else but this kid. The player in question is eligible for 14U still, but happens to also be a HS student. He is at the young end of the cut-off for 9th grade--probably a summer BD.

There is a kid on my son's select team in this bracket. BIG boy, great player, could play 14U as a HS freshman. Ulitmately decided to play 15U summer ball, and HS ball rather than continue with spring select as a 14U.

Is a 14 yr old that important to this HS team? It must be a very small HS to consider depending on a 14 yr old. If this kid is good enough to actually play for the HS team, then he is too good to be playing with a bunch of 14U kids.

Seems like he ought be faced with choosing between PLAYING on the 14U team or SITTING on the HS team. If I was the HS coach, I'd tell the parents to make the choice for the kid because those are the only two options he has with me.

As far as I know, Florida has the same rules where a player cannot play for a different team during the season. Even if they didn't, I don't know a coach that would allow it anyway.
We have let kids go to a showcase instead of practice on a saturday, then we gave the rest of the team a day off.

Coach Ric

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