HS coach won't play son

WJP posted:

Been there done that. My senior lead the district in hits and Batting average. Is currently still #2 on the team in batting average and top 7 in district. Been sitting the bench since the second half of the season only to pinch hit at times. By missing those 6 games he is currently tied 5th in hits. Has 40 less at bats or so. Batting average hasn’t been under .360 until late (358). Only 3 players are above .300. The fielder he was replaced with is maybe the same skill defense but not near the hitter. Oh and btw pitched in 6 preseason games to not give up a hit. Had a rough 2 innings last game pitched with a few walks and hasn’t pitched since. But it’s ok. He has been recruited to play juco college ball

So why is he sitting?  Did something happen?  Can't imagine a coach sitting a great player for a bad player if nothing happened.

Hell, Even I know Becky Dixon is better than Marley Jenkins

atlnon posted:

Read this fictional short story in social media and it reminded me of this thread (at I think it's fictional)...

https://www.jerradhardin.com/r...iZWBr186hw3w0dcdh970

Coached in schools for 26 years...would love to work for an administrator with the sack to say, "Mr. _______, hear me out – you’re out of line...."

PitchingFan posted:

WJP posted:

Been there done that. My senior lead the district in hits and Batting average. Is currently still #2 on the team in batting average and top 7 in district. Been sitting the bench since the second half of the season only to pinch hit at times. By missing those 6 games he is currently tied 5th in hits. Has 40 less at bats or so. Batting average hasn’t been under .360 until late (358). Only 3 players are above .300. The fielder he was replaced with is maybe the same skill defense but not near the hitter. Oh and btw pitched in 6 preseason games to not give up a hit. Had a rough 2 innings last game pitched with a few walks and hasn’t pitched since. But it’s ok. He has been recruited to play juco college ball

So why is he sitting?  Did something happen?  Can't imagine a coach sitting a great player for a bad player if nothing happened.

Have no clue. Everyone in town asked me the same thing. Kid goes to practice and works hard as any one else. I know better than question a coach. Don’t need him telling college scouts anything negative. I just remind my kid every week to keep working and if he gets in to take advantage of it and shine.

Update from "That Dad" lol. My son did well over the summer at PBR and PG events. He did get some looks from D3 schools and he actually talked to the coaches and he did attend the camps that they invited him to. He batted .342 over the summer, and was one of the top 4. The team as a whole lost more games than they won and almost tied more games than they won. My son missed the last 2 tournaments due to an injury. He took the fall off to heal, do showcases and get his ACT and SAT done.

I did want to address some of the comments that I saw on here. I never meant to imply my son was a good baseball player based off of JV stats. I do believe if you went back you would see that my son did very well on the JV team compared to the other 4-5 JV players that moved up and down from varsity. His JV stats were better than the rest of the JV players and his Summer stats were better than the Varsity players stats as well and these were stats taken while he (14U) played up 2 years (16U) with these and against these Varsity players. He did see weaker comp at the JV level but so did the other guys that were called up before him. My son faced the same talent as the varsity players in the summer and lead the entire 16U team and it was a .500 team. Someone stated that it made no sense for me to think he could have been on varsity as a freshman on a similar HS team. A fellow travel dad made that comment to me that my son should play Varsity and that he would at his sons school. He knew my son was better player than the other freshman varsity players at that school. That school is now state champions and his son was a freshman varsity player. Our school seems to pick at least 2 freshman to be on varsity every year and one year they pick 4 or 5, which happens to be the year my son did so well and the others struggled to the point they were put back down to JV and still did not do well. I can't speak for other schools but this seems to be normal over here. Our HS had a great season and won 20 plus games with like 5 losses and 2 were in the playoffs, we should had done better but it is impossible to criticize the coaches if they are winning as much as we do. We could win more though with just a few more good decisions. Our roster was not that deep in talent unless they took my advice and moved up the 3 players I would suggest. But if I remember right the averages drop off the table after the 6th batter. Two of the bottom starters were even dangerous to have in the field. The other bench players had chances but could not earn a spot, then only then they brought my son up and he did amazing hitting and fielding for the 7 innings they let him play.

My son is now a Junior and the suspected Varsity team looks to be really strong but still might be missing 2 really good players the coaches might leave on JV. Why, I don't know that seems to be what they do? We should have 6-7 seniors and 6-7 Juniors with two sophomores that would most likely carry over from last year. Which would leave about 3ish positions open for another sophomore or freshmans.

Breaking News! My son has told me he no longer has interest in playing in college which has been a dream of his sense he first learned about college sports (maybe 5 or 6 years old). He plans to play his Junior year and see if the coaches give him a chance or if they will continue to over look him. He said he is really tired of the bad coaching at HS and is not sure how much longer he can stand poor instructions from coaches who don't seem to be able to demonstrate what they are looking for from their players. He said the last 3 years of HS baseball has been the worst experiences with any coaches he has every had, and he doesn't want to even think about having a coach who seems not to like/or care for him in college. He is currently getting private instructions on hitting, he has weight training everyday, he also has baseball specific conditioning and arm care 3 days a week. He is still working very hard so we will see what he chooses to do.      

 

"Breaking News! My son has told me he no longer has interest in playing in college which has been a dream of his sense he first learned about college sports (maybe 5 or 6 years old). He plans to play his Junior year and see if the coaches give him a chance or if they will continue to over look him. He said he is really tired of the bad coaching at HS and is not sure how much longer he can stand poor instructions from coaches who don't seem to be able to demonstrate what they are looking for from their players. He said the last 3 years of HS baseball has been the worst experiences with any coaches he has every had, and he doesn't want to even think about having a coach who seems not to like/or care for him in college. He is currently getting private instructions on hitting, he has weight training everyday, he also has baseball specific conditioning and arm care 3 days a week. He is still working very hard so we will see what he chooses to do."

Not sure why you are spending the money on him when he has decided he is no longer interested in playing college baseball.  My son had a bad HS coach, and one of his teammates came to the same conclusion as your son and his parents stopped paying for private lessons and such.  The kid stuck it out and played a solid senior season but he finished his baseball career then and there.  Wise move by his parents who realized their kid was not going to be able to survive the demands of college baseball if he could not overcome a bad HS coach.  They accepted it and moved on.

On the other hand, my son was determined to prove his HS coach wrong and has done so by playing college baseball with a drive and determination that has set him up well for life beyond baseball and college. Learning to survive tough, negative or just bad coaches is part of growing up and positioning a kid for life in the "real world" where their job and financial well-being may depend on their ability to survive and overcome bad managers/bosses.

That's a shame. You only have a HS baseball experience once. Many times the fun is wrung out of it by Parents. Reading the under tones on this thread, you may want to make sure you are not one of those parents. 

Statements like "unless they took my advice and moved up the 3 players I would suggest." Show your disdain for the program. Your son is sure to pick up on your attitude. 

There is still time to jump on board and make the baseball time he has left, fun and productive. However it may mean having a sitdown with your son and explaining you were wrong about some things.

One attribute about quitting is it makes it easier to do the second time. 

Wow. I don't know where to start.  If he did so well in travel at PG and PBR events, and he is still taking private instruction and working an off-season throwing program, why does he no longer have interest in playing college baseball?  Why would he do that just for a HS program that he doesn't like and you hate?   If he did so well w/ travel, PG and PBR, and has consistently been a great player for years, why is he only getting some interest from D3?  If the HS baseball team is such a perennial winner and desirable program to be a part of, as you have stated in previous posts, how can they have two starters that are even dangerous to have in the field?  If the dad of a fellow travel team player of your son, not from the same HS but lives in the same state says to you that your son should be starting varsity, why the heck wouldn't your son's HS coach be listening to him?  Geez, you were right all along.  That coach is an idiot.  Just because your son has a weird throwing motion, that doesn't mean he shouldn't get more attention and opportunity at higher levels.  Geez, he's totally getting the job done at HS JV.

Seriously, as we approach page 11, you seem to have listened to absolutely none, zero, of the advice given by an audience that can help you, and in turn, your son.  It's getting late and that door is closing quickly.  Go back and read your posts in this thread and, more importantly, the responses.  Think about what advice others are trying to give you, not about what you want to hear.  It is becoming extremely unlikely your son will be able to survive a college baseball program, regardless of how far his skill set may continue to advance.  So, he may have made a wise decision.  It may not be too late but the fat lady has her harmonica out, humming her notes.

cabbagedad posted:

 

Seriously, as we approach page 11... 

Classic!

It may happen one day. But so far I have never seen these situations end well. My son was a tremendous HS player. Ranked very high. Went to his dream school. All I did was keep it real with him. Never offered excuses as a solution. He transferred to another school and I did the exact same thing. During his 5 years of college 1 rs year and 4 playing not once did I offer up excuses when things were tough. And he followed my lead. No excuses find a way. He ended up having a great college baseball experience. He ended up being an All American his sr year. He learned how to grind. He learned how to deal with adversity. He learned how to fight. 

At the end of his college career his college coach who I never talked to one time about my son's baseball. Pulled me over to the side after a game and said. "I hope one day when my son's play baseball I can be the parent you have been. I hope my sons are half the man your son is." 

He offered my son a spot on his staff after he graduated. And when the PC was offered a HC position he gave my son a job on his staff. This started my son's coaching career his dream he always wanted to do. What he will tell you is he wouldn't change a thing. Those tough times were the fire that forged the steel. They were what drove him to be a great player but more important an outstanding man. Baseball is great. But nothing is as important as the man he will be one day. Baseball is a vehicle that can assist your son with this process in a positive way or a negative way. And make no mistake you as a parent have a whole lot to do with what road they take. 

 

It may sound harsh but the bottom line is be more concerned with the man the game is making than the player you want him to be. 

 

I'll throw my 2 cents in but the value is probably less.  You stated that your son doesn't have any respect for the high school coach.  You have made it clear that you have no respect for the high school coach.  You stated that your son no longer has any wish to pursue baseball in college.   Do both of you a favor and tell your son to do something other than play baseball at this school.  You and your son will be happier and the stories of how great he was and what could have been will resonate forever as you blame the high school coach.  

Just in case there are new readers thinking we are ganging up and being hard on this guy, you need to know there is extensive history with him in this thread. We were largely sympathetic and/or tried to offer guidance/support the first ten or twenty posts he made on this topic.  

Unfortunately,  unless proper role models enter the kid’s life he’s doomed to be the complainer at the water cooler at work. The players who get ahead in baseball and people who get ahead in the business world aren’t complainers. They see problems and seek solutions. 

“The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough. They’re there to stop other people.”

-Randy Pausch

It seems fairly obvious that this kid is making wise choice. College baseball isn't for everyone, him realizing it now will only benefit him. There are many down sides to the college experience, some of us think they are worth it for the upsides but that doesn't mean we are correct. 

I have 2 - one stuck with it in college, is in the process of having successful career, has been player for his first seasons in a 2 games out of 3 role and will be a full time starter (at least I believe he will) this coming season. He will be the first to tell you ain't all fun and he questioned many times why he does it. 

My 2nd said hell no I got better things to do....is he a quitter? Let me tell you something that kid is a stud and is going to very very successful. He knows how to read a room, he anticipates situations well and is very observant to what is going on around him. I almost had to convince him to play his SR yr in HS because the love and desire we gone...but he certainly isn't a quitter. 

There is a big world out there besides playing HS and college baseball - deciding not go that path is not a bad choice - only a personal one. 

My son is continuing all of his practice regiments currently because he wants to be the best he can and his goal is to be the best on the field every time he goes out. He is very competitive and has proven himself to be competitive in mind and actually play over and over again. Even when I was helping coach his 9-13 travel teams I did not advocate for him to have un earned daddy ball playing time. There were years that he was the smallest player, not the worst just the smallest player and his hitting and his consistency in the field moved him up in the lineup without any of my influence as a coach. My influence was with my son working on his swing and working on his defense his hustle and everything else. My son has seen the brick walls and has climbed them. I hope he continues but he is becoming tired of it. I think he his projected to be D3 partly because he is 5'9" and not likely to get any taller. Big guys with bad batting averages are going to get more looks because they can hit the ball further that one time somebody important was watching. They are more projectable. The coaches are looking for big guys they can coach to be better. Coaches are not going to be able to teach my son how to be 6'2" 200 lbs. My son is currently throwing 86 from the outfield with great accuracy he has a exit velo of 85 (wood bat on a tee) and runs a 7.02 (laser) 60.  I have read your guys comments and thank you for the words of advice and the quotes you share. I see truth in a lot of them. Sometimes things are just different.  Some will say his bad coach is preparing him for a bad boss and maybe it is. I however don't put up with bad bosses. I am very good at my job, there are few of me, and I am wanted by several companies. I will move on if the company is not heading in the direction I want to go ( I do not job hop I have stayed at least 6 yrs everywhere). I have respect for myself I have had to demand respect form many bosses. I always respect the boss and they should give it back. If they don't, I call them out on it. That's my real world. This baseball world my son can't do that, and I can't do that. It might hurt a coaches ego or feelings. Maybe someone here can relate to this scenario. Coach tells a bunch of 14year olds you guys know nothing about baseball, when I was 14 I was so dumb and I knew nothing about baseball until I had a good coach teach me the right way to play. Then he went on to coach them all the things my son and I would say most of the others already knew. My point is just because you were dumb at 14 does not mean everyone else is. I went to the bank looking for a loan at 20 yrs old. Before running my credit the loan officer told me no because I was the same age as his son and his son would not be able to get a loan at that bank. I went to school with his son and just because he is a loser should have no affect on me. I asked him to run my credit, he begrudgingly did. He came back with a big smile on his face and said we can do business.  Maybe sometimes we don't need to climb these walls but knock them down. If you are correct then bosses, bankers and dare I say teachers and coaches need to be corrected. My son longs for the day when he will be judged for the content of his character, work ethic, and playing ability rather than the number of years he has been around the sun. HS tryouts on MLK 2020. We will see what happens. For those of you that think I should sit down and have a heart to heart with my son and take blame for what I have done. I did have a sit down talk about it before he said he didn't want to play in college. I critique everything and everyone, it's me. I don't share them with everyone, and I have had success with helping others and myself in doing so. (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.)  I did apologized if I was hard on him his teammates or coaches. He told me I was correct in my judgments an rarely wrong at reading people and their abilities. He told me I was the most fair minded coach he ever had. I was not however his favorite. lol. He continues to ask me to take him to the field for extra work with hitting and fielding and we both have a really fun time. I continue to encourage him to battle and play hard because his past experiences has proven that when he works hard he comes out on top. We never thought it would take 3 years but he has 2 more to get it done. 

BBDAD98 posted:

My son is continuing all of his practice regiments currently because he wants to be the best he can and his goal is to be the best on the field every time he goes out. He is very competitive and has proven himself to be competitive in mind and actually play over and over again. Even when I was helping coach his 9-13 travel teams I did not advocate for him to have un earned daddy ball playing time. There were years that he was the smallest player, not the worst just the smallest player and his hitting and his consistency in the field moved him up in the lineup without any of my influence as a coach. My influence was with my son working on his swing and working on his defense his hustle and everything else. My son has seen the brick walls and has climbed them. I hope he continues but he is becoming tired of it. I think he his projected to be D3 partly because he is 5'9" and not likely to get any taller. Big guys with bad batting averages are going to get more looks because they can hit the ball further that one time somebody important was watching. They are more projectable. The coaches are looking for big guys they can coach to be better. Coaches are not going to be able to teach my son how to be 6'2" 200 lbs. My son is currently throwing 86 from the outfield with great accuracy he has a exit velo of 85 (wood bat on a tee) and runs a 7.02 (laser) 60.  I have read your guys comments and thank you for the words of advice and the quotes you share. I see truth in a lot of them. Sometimes things are just different.  Some will say his bad coach is preparing him for a bad boss and maybe it is. I however don't put up with bad bosses. I am very good at my job, there are few of me, and I am wanted by several companies. I will move on if the company is not heading in the direction I want to go ( I do not job hop I have stayed at least 6 yrs everywhere). I have respect for myself I have had to demand respect form many bosses. I always respect the boss and they should give it back. If they don't, I call them out on it. That's my real world. This baseball world my son can't do that, and I can't do that. It might hurt a coaches ego or feelings. Maybe someone here can relate to this scenario. Coach tells a bunch of 14year olds you guys know nothing about baseball, when I was 14 I was so dumb and I knew nothing about baseball until I had a good coach teach me the right way to play. Then he went on to coach them all the things my son and I would say most of the others already knew. My point is just because you were dumb at 14 does not mean everyone else is. I went to the bank looking for a loan at 20 yrs old. Before running my credit the loan officer told me no because I was the same age as his son and his son would not be able to get a loan at that bank. I went to school with his son and just because he is a loser should have no affect on me. I asked him to run my credit, he begrudgingly did. He came back with a big smile on his face and said we can do business.  Maybe sometimes we don't need to climb these walls but knock them down. If you are correct then bosses, bankers and dare I say teachers and coaches need to be corrected. My son longs for the day when he will be judged for the content of his character, work ethic, and playing ability rather than the number of years he has been around the sun. HS tryouts on MLK 2020. We will see what happens. For those of you that think I should sit down and have a heart to heart with my son and take blame for what I have done. I did have a sit down talk about it before he said he didn't want to play in college. I critique everything and everyone, it's me. I don't share them with everyone, and I have had success with helping others and myself in doing so. (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.)  I did apologized if I was hard on him his teammates or coaches. He told me I was correct in my judgments an rarely wrong at reading people and their abilities. He told me I was the most fair minded coach he ever had. I was not however his favorite. lol. He continues to ask me to take him to the field for extra work with hitting and fielding and we both have a really fun time. I continue to encourage him to battle and play hard because his past experiences has proven that when he works hard he comes out on top. We never thought it would take 3 years but he has 2 more to get it done. 

The bold above pretty much sums everything up and give me a pretty good idea of why your son isn't playing.

HS Baseball is running rampant with 2 things:                                                                   1) Poor coaching     &.                                     2) Overinvolved, delusional parents.              If you wanna know what happens when the 2 collide all you have to do is read this thread. 

Smitty28 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

 

Seriously, as we approach page 11... 

Classic!

Thanks guys, I just spit up my coffee (again) and made a mess.  

Coach May you speak the baseball and parenting gospel.  Awesome post about letting your children grow up within boundaries and finding their way in life.

 

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

BBDAD98 posted:

... (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.)  ...

Let me get this straight... So, in playoffs, your son's team was run-ruled twice by a team, one game included having a no-no shoved at them (except for your son's late inning sub hit).  But you had a strategy that would have resulted in his team winning the series.

Man, I can seriously use your help...  I'd like to see more rescue dogs behave and we need a faster cure for cancer, SMA and ALS.

I'm tappin' out... best to ya.

I've posted this before....but I coached this guy's kid for 2 years in junior high.  Go about 7 minutes in lol

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6tf87k

To be fair....some (quite a bit actually) of this is an act....I knew him well enough to know it as soon as I watched....BUT in our little small town, most people saw this and this is exactly what they thought of him.   I haven't seen him for 5 years now.... but my son and the kid played 2 years of Varsity HS ball together and are still friends.....great kid, and I really think that if he wouldn't have had to put up with dad and his "coaching" that he could have played college bal.   He ended up giving up baseball after HS.....I'm fairly certain it was he was just tired of dad at that point

I think the value in this thread does not come down to the ability to help the op. It comes down to hopefully someone reads this and takes the advice offered up before it's too late for them. I will be honest, sometimes I look back on when my son's were playing sports before the HS years and I cringe at myself. I valued some things over other things then and now that I look back I say "What in the _____ was I thinking?" I did some things and I look back and I am quite honestly embarrassed. Just think about this. When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?

Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.

It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.

Coach May, now that's a sermon we all needed to hear! 

old_school posted:

It seems fairly obvious that this kid is making wise choice. College baseball isn't for everyone, him realizing it now will only benefit him. There are many down sides to the college experience, some of us think they are worth it for the upsides but that doesn't mean we are correct. 

I have 2 - one stuck with it in college, is in the process of having successful career, has been player for his first seasons in a 2 games out of 3 role and will be a full time starter (at least I believe he will) this coming season. He will be the first to tell you ain't all fun and he questioned many times why he does it. 

My 2nd said hell no I got better things to do....is he a quitter? Let me tell you something that kid is a stud and is going to very very successful. He knows how to read a room, he anticipates situations well and is very observant to what is going on around him. I almost had to convince him to play his SR yr in HS because the love and desire we gone...but he certainly isn't a quitter. 

There is a big world out there besides playing HS and college baseball - deciding not go that path is not a bad choice - only a personal one. 

I love this post. Folks!  Read it and read it again. It’s ok if your kid doesn’t keep playing baseball.  Baseball is a choice. For all players it starts off as their own choice. For some players it will end being someone else’s choice. Be supportive and love your player. 

I like the post, too. Easy to forget that not everyone would crawl through
broken glass to keep playing like I would have.

There are a lot of outstanding posts in this thread.  As you all know I coached my daughter in travel ball and ended up having to be her high school coach.  That was not what I wanted.  In fact, we didn't want her to play TB and couldn't have cared less if she decided to not play in college.  Along the way, somehow her mother and I must have done something right.  BB is a middle school and high school coach now.  She coached 8 years of TB and her heart was broken when she had to stop doing that.  (Long story)  Now, and I know some of you others have the same happening in your lives, she and I talk coaching.  I am amazed at what she learned.  My wife and I were never the parents to push, yell during games, get upset with loses or get too excited about wins and I think that is what kept her even keeled.  The love of the game is destroyed so often by so many including coaches and parents.  If some of you will remember, at one game in college against their conference rival, I got up to walk behind the bleachers because I was nervous for her in a high pressure situation.  After the game, she came up to me and asked my why I left my chair.  I didn't even realize she would know where we were sitting.  She told me I didn't have to get up and walk and that she would get the hits.  I think maybe some parents don't realize the impact they make even by simply doing the nervous walk.  I would give almost anything to go back and get to do that journey again.  Some parents will reap the joy and benefits of similar actions and the enjoyment.  Some will never know it.  They simply can't help themselves.  

I'm not a coach, and I'm also closer to being a high-school parent than some who have posted.  I was a newbie sports parent who spent lots of time wondering why the coach did things. Never ever said anything, but wondered.  So I get where the OPs (there are 3 or 4 of them on this thread, I think) come from.  Every parent I have known second-guesses coaches about something!  By senior year of high school, I understood and approved of most of what the coach had been doing for 4 years; freshman year, there were lots of unasked/unanswered questions, and to this day, there are some things that I still don't understand. 

I completely agree with Coach May about character.  I saw my son do things that made me proud of him as a person, but I expect that, 10 years from now, I may realize what those were better than I do now.  In the moment, you only see what's happening in that moment, and you react without knowing how things are going to play out.  Hindsight solves a lot of problems!

Adversity Made Me The Man I Am Today. Every Injury, Every Challenge, Every Loss, Becomes Fuel That Keeps Me Motivated. I’m Determined To Be The Best Me!

- Danny Shelton, DT New England Patriots

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

atlnon posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

I saw parental behavior and heard parental comments regarding making varsity and playing time that were just unbelievable. In two of the most significant situations I recollect I was very tempted to ask the parents, “How many freak’n opportunities and failures do you believe your kid deserves?” The parents were blind to their kid got their shot. In both cases the parents had trouble accepted that 14u stud and high school, big boy ball are two different things. 

It was amusing to hear how successful their kids were on piss poor 16u teams that never saw quality pitching. These were the teams in pool play I worked from the back of the staff as a travel coach. On some occasions, to save pitching I asked former pitcher, position players to just throw strikes until we out slugged them into a mercy. 

atlnon posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

Possible but highly unlikely, IMO.  While there's plenty to make someone think that, there are certain elements of consistency throughout his many posts over 1 1/2 years since he first joined this thread way back on mid page 2, now nearing page 11.  Besides, yes I have actually had more than a couple of "this dad" almost "to a T" in my programs in real life over the years.  Yes, unfortunately, you can guess the fate of the sons with 100% accuracy.

To Anotherparent's point, I think we have all been there to a degree at times as parents.  But most of us are like the other 3 or 4 on this thread that Anotherparent referenced.  They came in, voiced their experiences and concerns, were given advice, listened to those who have been down the path, were talked down from the ledge where necessary, encouraged to look at things more rationally, took what they could from the conversations and moved on, most in a much better place than when they came in.  Not the case with this one.

Over the course of the thread, the dad has let out that the player has at various points had attitude issues, had a bad throwing motion, tried to tell the coaches that it was the pitchers' fault that he couldn't throw out runners as a catcher and threw them under the bus, lacks size and power, among many other things.  Yet, he continues to make excuses and defend the kid at every turn while putting all blame on the coach/es.  Meanwhile, dad is making it very clear to the player and others in and around the program that he doesn't approve of the coach/es.   This still going on after a year and a half of many here trying to talk him down from the ledge and convince him otherwise.  

Back to the playoff series - So, you came up with a game strategy that you knew was much different than that of the coaches.  You told your son, hoping "he would find it useful and share it with others" (Your exact words).  Who were you hoping he would tell?  If he did, how does that not get back to the coaches?  How does this possibly not end very badly?   What was your desired outcome, considering you are so successful at good outcomes in your profession?  Were you hoping for a mutiny, where all the players would say "yeah, his dad has a much better plan!  Let's quit on our coaches and try to get him to lead us to the promised land here in the playoffs!"  Seriously, WT$ !!!  

Oh, to be a fly on the wall!!!...I mean... A fly on the chain link fence around the dugout!  

Baseball mom

when I coach one of the best travel teams in Calif, I would invite the parents into the dugout and explain my decisions. In the 6 years we played against 50 future MLB players. Every game drew 5-10 pro scouts.

From this experience I created the Area Code games and the players benefited from 300 scouts each game. 

Travel to Santa Rosa and sit in the "dugout"

bob

Coach_May posted:

When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?

Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.

It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.

Coach May, your posts are invaluable here. You really get it.

One thing that is funny is if you read this site enough, you do see the clueless parents like the guy in this thread who probably means well but just don't see how he is affecting his son. But you also see people still bragging and taking credit for what their kids did 10 or 15 years ago. Aside from how empty that bragging is, the point is that for the kids who DID start and succeed, THAT doesn't matter either. Bragging on how your kid was better than the kid of some other "clueless parent" is equally pathetic because it matters exactly zero that your kid was good 15 years ago. What kind of a person is he now, and what kind of a person are you?

Coach_May posted:

 Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch?

Yes

Wow there is a lot to read through here for someone just chiming in! I have come to really enjoy a ton of posts by Coach May, Cabbagedad, and many of you on the site, and the advice in this thread is great.

I am a high school teacher (though not a coach thank God) and I shoot as straight as I can with parents whose kids struggle. The biggest situation I run into is that the kid is just not all that interested in getting decent grades, or is not willing to work. With those kids whose parents "snowplow" the obstacles away for their children, I will typically ask them what they think will happen when their kids goes off to college or enters the real world and mom or dad are not there to help anymore. I will tell them about the valedictorian of my high school that flunked out of college his first semester because he didn't know how to do things or handle adversity himself.

I hear students everyday in my classroom talking about how coach only moved that kid up because he is his favorite, or how so and so is not "that good", or (insert excuse here).

I have a freshman, and my take is that it is all on him. I can try to help guide him in some key areas (and this site is amazing for that) but I have always told him that: if he is not talented enough, does not love the game enough, and is not willing to work hard enough then he may as well just have fun with it and take what he gets - because he will never be good enough to play at a higher level anyway.

Take these peoples' advice. Let your son fail. Make him be his own man. 

I am much more concerned about what type of man my son will be at age 30 than "if" he gets to play a sport in college or not. Go google how many MLB guys realized their dream and played in the show for 2-3 years, and then see what they are doing now. The same things you and I are doing. Teaching, selling cars, running small businesses, coaching, working in the corporate world, etc.

I always try to keep this in mind - none of this crap is going to matter in 5 years anyway. Everything is going to work out as it is supposed to.