HS coach won't play son

BBDAD98 posted:

... (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.)  ...

Let me get this straight... So, in playoffs, your son's team was run-ruled twice by a team, one game included having a no-no shoved at them (except for your son's late inning sub hit).  But you had a strategy that would have resulted in his team winning the series.

Man, I can seriously use your help...  I'd like to see more rescue dogs behave and we need a faster cure for cancer, SMA and ALS.

I'm tappin' out... best to ya.

I've posted this before....but I coached this guy's kid for 2 years in junior high.  Go about 7 minutes in lol

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6tf87k

To be fair....some (quite a bit actually) of this is an act....I knew him well enough to know it as soon as I watched....BUT in our little small town, most people saw this and this is exactly what they thought of him.   I haven't seen him for 5 years now.... but my son and the kid played 2 years of Varsity HS ball together and are still friends.....great kid, and I really think that if he wouldn't have had to put up with dad and his "coaching" that he could have played college bal.   He ended up giving up baseball after HS.....I'm fairly certain it was he was just tired of dad at that point

I think the value in this thread does not come down to the ability to help the op. It comes down to hopefully someone reads this and takes the advice offered up before it's too late for them. I will be honest, sometimes I look back on when my son's were playing sports before the HS years and I cringe at myself. I valued some things over other things then and now that I look back I say "What in the _____ was I thinking?" I did some things and I look back and I am quite honestly embarrassed. Just think about this. When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?

Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.

It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.

Coach May, now that's a sermon we all needed to hear! 

old_school posted:

It seems fairly obvious that this kid is making wise choice. College baseball isn't for everyone, him realizing it now will only benefit him. There are many down sides to the college experience, some of us think they are worth it for the upsides but that doesn't mean we are correct. 

I have 2 - one stuck with it in college, is in the process of having successful career, has been player for his first seasons in a 2 games out of 3 role and will be a full time starter (at least I believe he will) this coming season. He will be the first to tell you ain't all fun and he questioned many times why he does it. 

My 2nd said hell no I got better things to do....is he a quitter? Let me tell you something that kid is a stud and is going to very very successful. He knows how to read a room, he anticipates situations well and is very observant to what is going on around him. I almost had to convince him to play his SR yr in HS because the love and desire we gone...but he certainly isn't a quitter. 

There is a big world out there besides playing HS and college baseball - deciding not go that path is not a bad choice - only a personal one. 

I love this post. Folks!  Read it and read it again. It’s ok if your kid doesn’t keep playing baseball.  Baseball is a choice. For all players it starts off as their own choice. For some players it will end being someone else’s choice. Be supportive and love your player. 

I like the post, too. Easy to forget that not everyone would crawl through
broken glass to keep playing like I would have.

There are a lot of outstanding posts in this thread.  As you all know I coached my daughter in travel ball and ended up having to be her high school coach.  That was not what I wanted.  In fact, we didn't want her to play TB and couldn't have cared less if she decided to not play in college.  Along the way, somehow her mother and I must have done something right.  BB is a middle school and high school coach now.  She coached 8 years of TB and her heart was broken when she had to stop doing that.  (Long story)  Now, and I know some of you others have the same happening in your lives, she and I talk coaching.  I am amazed at what she learned.  My wife and I were never the parents to push, yell during games, get upset with loses or get too excited about wins and I think that is what kept her even keeled.  The love of the game is destroyed so often by so many including coaches and parents.  If some of you will remember, at one game in college against their conference rival, I got up to walk behind the bleachers because I was nervous for her in a high pressure situation.  After the game, she came up to me and asked my why I left my chair.  I didn't even realize she would know where we were sitting.  She told me I didn't have to get up and walk and that she would get the hits.  I think maybe some parents don't realize the impact they make even by simply doing the nervous walk.  I would give almost anything to go back and get to do that journey again.  Some parents will reap the joy and benefits of similar actions and the enjoyment.  Some will never know it.  They simply can't help themselves.  

I'm not a coach, and I'm also closer to being a high-school parent than some who have posted.  I was a newbie sports parent who spent lots of time wondering why the coach did things. Never ever said anything, but wondered.  So I get where the OPs (there are 3 or 4 of them on this thread, I think) come from.  Every parent I have known second-guesses coaches about something!  By senior year of high school, I understood and approved of most of what the coach had been doing for 4 years; freshman year, there were lots of unasked/unanswered questions, and to this day, there are some things that I still don't understand. 

I completely agree with Coach May about character.  I saw my son do things that made me proud of him as a person, but I expect that, 10 years from now, I may realize what those were better than I do now.  In the moment, you only see what's happening in that moment, and you react without knowing how things are going to play out.  Hindsight solves a lot of problems!

Adversity Made Me The Man I Am Today. Every Injury, Every Challenge, Every Loss, Becomes Fuel That Keeps Me Motivated. I’m Determined To Be The Best Me!

- Danny Shelton, DT New England Patriots

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

atlnon posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

I saw parental behavior and heard parental comments regarding making varsity and playing time that were just unbelievable. In two of the most significant situations I recollect I was very tempted to ask the parents, “How many freak’n opportunities and failures do you believe your kid deserves?” The parents were blind to their kid got their shot. In both cases the parents had trouble accepted that 14u stud and high school, big boy ball are two different things. 

It was amusing to hear how successful their kids were on piss poor 16u teams that never saw quality pitching. These were the teams in pool play I worked from the back of the staff as a travel coach. On some occasions, to save pitching I asked former pitcher, position players to just throw strikes until we out slugged them into a mercy. 

atlnon posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Please don't ever take this down.  You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this.  If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with.  So you scouted a JV team for playoffs?  Are you kidding me?  When your son is not even starting?  I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.

Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500.  I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up.  I do know you are your son's worst enemy.  YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU.  WOW.  I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this. 

This has to be a Top 10 Thread.

You all sure we're not being trolled???  Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?

Possible but highly unlikely, IMO.  While there's plenty to make someone think that, there are certain elements of consistency throughout his many posts over 1 1/2 years since he first joined this thread way back on mid page 2, now nearing page 11.  Besides, yes I have actually had more than a couple of "this dad" almost "to a T" in my programs in real life over the years.  Yes, unfortunately, you can guess the fate of the sons with 100% accuracy.

To Anotherparent's point, I think we have all been there to a degree at times as parents.  But most of us are like the other 3 or 4 on this thread that Anotherparent referenced.  They came in, voiced their experiences and concerns, were given advice, listened to those who have been down the path, were talked down from the ledge where necessary, encouraged to look at things more rationally, took what they could from the conversations and moved on, most in a much better place than when they came in.  Not the case with this one.

Over the course of the thread, the dad has let out that the player has at various points had attitude issues, had a bad throwing motion, tried to tell the coaches that it was the pitchers' fault that he couldn't throw out runners as a catcher and threw them under the bus, lacks size and power, among many other things.  Yet, he continues to make excuses and defend the kid at every turn while putting all blame on the coach/es.  Meanwhile, dad is making it very clear to the player and others in and around the program that he doesn't approve of the coach/es.   This still going on after a year and a half of many here trying to talk him down from the ledge and convince him otherwise.  

Back to the playoff series - So, you came up with a game strategy that you knew was much different than that of the coaches.  You told your son, hoping "he would find it useful and share it with others" (Your exact words).  Who were you hoping he would tell?  If he did, how does that not get back to the coaches?  How does this possibly not end very badly?   What was your desired outcome, considering you are so successful at good outcomes in your profession?  Were you hoping for a mutiny, where all the players would say "yeah, his dad has a much better plan!  Let's quit on our coaches and try to get him to lead us to the promised land here in the playoffs!"  Seriously, WT$ !!!  

Oh, to be a fly on the wall!!!...I mean... A fly on the chain link fence around the dugout!  

Baseball mom

when I coach one of the best travel teams in Calif, I would invite the parents into the dugout and explain my decisions. In the 6 years we played against 50 future MLB players. Every game drew 5-10 pro scouts.

From this experience I created the Area Code games and the players benefited from 300 scouts each game. 

Travel to Santa Rosa and sit in the "dugout"

bob

Coach_May posted:

When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?

Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.

It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.

Coach May, your posts are invaluable here. You really get it.

One thing that is funny is if you read this site enough, you do see the clueless parents like the guy in this thread who probably means well but just don't see how he is affecting his son. But you also see people still bragging and taking credit for what their kids did 10 or 15 years ago. Aside from how empty that bragging is, the point is that for the kids who DID start and succeed, THAT doesn't matter either. Bragging on how your kid was better than the kid of some other "clueless parent" is equally pathetic because it matters exactly zero that your kid was good 15 years ago. What kind of a person is he now, and what kind of a person are you?

Coach_May posted:

 Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch?

Yes

Wow there is a lot to read through here for someone just chiming in! I have come to really enjoy a ton of posts by Coach May, Cabbagedad, and many of you on the site, and the advice in this thread is great.

I am a high school teacher (though not a coach thank God) and I shoot as straight as I can with parents whose kids struggle. The biggest situation I run into is that the kid is just not all that interested in getting decent grades, or is not willing to work. With those kids whose parents "snowplow" the obstacles away for their children, I will typically ask them what they think will happen when their kids goes off to college or enters the real world and mom or dad are not there to help anymore. I will tell them about the valedictorian of my high school that flunked out of college his first semester because he didn't know how to do things or handle adversity himself.

I hear students everyday in my classroom talking about how coach only moved that kid up because he is his favorite, or how so and so is not "that good", or (insert excuse here).

I have a freshman, and my take is that it is all on him. I can try to help guide him in some key areas (and this site is amazing for that) but I have always told him that: if he is not talented enough, does not love the game enough, and is not willing to work hard enough then he may as well just have fun with it and take what he gets - because he will never be good enough to play at a higher level anyway.

Take these peoples' advice. Let your son fail. Make him be his own man. 

I am much more concerned about what type of man my son will be at age 30 than "if" he gets to play a sport in college or not. Go google how many MLB guys realized their dream and played in the show for 2-3 years, and then see what they are doing now. The same things you and I are doing. Teaching, selling cars, running small businesses, coaching, working in the corporate world, etc.

I always try to keep this in mind - none of this crap is going to matter in 5 years anyway. Everything is going to work out as it is supposed to.