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Hello everyone, I'm new so please bear with me are I get this down.
My son is a talented player, not just in his mommy's eyes, but many coaches both little league and private coaches have said he has a natural gift. His HS coach has played him 5 innings in 12 games. He is the only lefty pitcher on the team (sophomore). He has a few very dirty off speed pitches. His fastball is mid 70s. He can throw wherever he wants. He also is a very good outfielder and can play ss, 1st, 2nd despite being a lefty. He has speed and has uncanny proprioception. He has had 9 plate appearances and is batting 375 and an obp of 666. The coach has 12 kids that he plays. He will move them around but rarely do the other 10 kids on the team play. Today, when my son sat out his 5th game in a row, he asked his coach what he could do to get playing time and his coach said that the guys he's playing are his "rotation" for awhile. The coach just lost 3 games in a row in division to a comparable team but no one on our team could hit. Saturdays double header left 10+ stranded. I'm so frustrated my kid knows how to read the opposing team and find their weakness and get on base. After the coach stopped talking. My son told him, "I'm not a scrub, coach. I can help put a w up for you." Coach skoffed at him and said, "yeah, okay" and walked away. Is there anything I can do as a parent?  The coach has threatened the team with running if a parent contacts him directly. I just want to know if he sees a weakness in my son's playing so we can get him the help he needs. Sorry for being so wordy. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Nick's mom
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Originally Posted by Nicks mom:
Hello everyone, I'm new so please bear with me are I get this down.
My son is a talented player, not just in his mommy's eyes, but many coaches both little league and private coaches have said he has a natural gift. His HS coach has played him 5 innings in 12 games. He is the only lefty pitcher on the team (sophomore). He has a few very dirty off speed pitches. His fastball is mid 70s. He can throw wherever he wants. He also is a very good outfielder and can play ss, 1st, 2nd despite being a lefty. He has speed and has uncanny proprioception. He has had 9 plate appearances and is batting 375 and an obp of 666. The coach has 12 kids that he plays. He will move them around but rarely do the other 10 kids on the team play. Today, when my son sat out his 5th game in a row, he asked his coach what he could do to get playing time and his coach said that the guys he's playing are his "rotation" for awhile. The coach just lost 3 games in a row in division to a comparable team but no one on our team could hit. Saturdays double header left 10+ stranded. I'm so frustrated my kid knows how to read the opposing team and find their weakness and get on base. After the coach stopped talking. My son told him, "I'm not a scrub, coach. I can help put a w up for you." Coach skoffed at him and said, "yeah, okay" and walked away. Is there anything I can do as a parent?  The coach has threatened the team with running if a parent contacts him directly. I just want to know if he sees a weakness in my son's playing so we can get him the help he needs. Sorry for being so wordy. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Nick's mom

Get ready to be pounded.  

 

My $.02 is don't contact the coach. It will do more harm than good. Your kid did what he should.  Not much more he can do other than be a good teammate and continue to work hard.  These things happen and you really just have to accept it. Make sure he is on a summer team where he is "loved."   Good luck.  

Originally Posted by Nicks mom:
He also is a very good outfielder and can play ss, 1st, 2nd despite being a lefty. 

 

Originally Posted by SluggerDad:

Circle the firing squad.  Ready... Aim....

 

He could maybe take a few grounders at 3rd. Has he tried catching?

 

(OK, that's kind of mean of me, I'm sorry - but I couldn't resist)

Last edited by FNL
Nick's mom, I mean this with the best of intentions, but you aren't going to get a lot of sympathy here. There is nothing you can accomplish by talking to the coach yourself. Your son has already done that, which is the correct move. He didn't like what he heard, so now he has to prove the coach wrong whenever given the opportunity. Being angry, upset and frustrated will only make things worse. Even under the best of circumstances, we are biased toward our kids and their abilities. Most parents on here have heard multiple great things about their kids playing ability over the years, but there are only so many starting spots on a team. The competition in high school is tougher, so your son needs to step up and become the player that can't be missed.

Good luck and I hope you stick around even if you feel like your getting a lot of push back on here. We need more moms

When a player isn't in the lineup he needs to remain physically and mentally ready to produce. He has to be ready for the one at bat, one inning in the field, the pinch running or inning on the mound that will make an impression on the coaching staff. To be prepared the player must keep a positive attitude and practice hard. The best way to get in the lineup is show up the first day of the season with production that shows the player should absolutely be in the lineup.

 

Do you think good players sit at other levels? On major conference college baseball teams 35 players with high school all conference, all metro, all state credentials show up for the season. Only about 18-20 get any kind of playing time.

 

Right now Jackie Bradley Jr., who may be the best defensive center fielder in baseball is in AAA as the second option to be called up after hitting over .400 in spring training. There are six better overall outfielders on the Red Sox plus one ahead of him in AAA.

 

Like your son should do, these players stay ready to take advantage of any opportunity. Your son should be the first at practice and the last to leave. Coaches notice when players work that hard to get ahead.

Add: Lefties don't play catcher, second, short or third after the preteen years. Don't even waste time thinking about it. A lot of kids were stars at previous levels. By high school the talent funnel starts getting real narrow. Earning playing time isn't about what players have done in the past. it's all about what they can do for the team riget now.

 

When my son was in high school there were three parents of kids complaining every year their kids were getting screwed by the coach. As a former college player and then travel coach I would nod my head and say, "uh huh." Then I would think to myself, "They're out of their mind. The right players are starting." Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

Last edited by RJM

Hi Nick's Mom and welcome to the site.  A few questions to get some more perspective...  you said he has speed - what is his 60 time?  What is his home-to-first time?  What is his batted ball exit speed?  Does he have a PG rating?  Which top travel/club team is he currently signed up with?  Which varsity level top travel/club teams are calling asking him to play this coming summer?  The HS team he is on now, is it varsity or JV?  22 on the team - did they have cuts and if so, how many tried out?  What is top velocity of the hardest throwing pitcher on the team?  Setting aside his strengths for a moment, what weaknesses do you think he has that are keeping him from getting more playing time?  What does your son see as his best position?  When he squares balls up against live pitching, hitting to the opposite field, how far does the ball typically travel?  Same question pull side?  Does he hit lefty?  I look forward to your answers so I can try to provide proper guidance.

Nicks Mom - Sympathy or empathy is not what you need. What you need to understand is that you can never help your son with this issue, only hurt him. It sounds like he is not shy, but passionate about the game. Good things will happen. If they do not happen with this coach, find him a good travel team for the summer and perhaps fall. But this battle you can not win and should be left to your son.

As RJM says, your son needs to keep working and always be ready for opportunities.  3 of our varsity players were just let go over the weekend due to underage drinking tickets.  Varsity coach is pulling 2 of my JVs up to fill the spots.

 

Bottom line is, you just never know?  Always be ready for the call because good chance it will come.  Life is funny that way.

Last edited by #1 Assistant Coach

NIcks mom,

 

Welcome to the site.  I believe there is a wealth of information available to you on this site if you choose to search it. Search box is in the top left corner. There is also a ton of experience with our posters.  My suggestion would be to listen to what the posters are saying and do your own research on the topic.  

 

By high school, most parents want to stay involved with their son's baseball but it becomes a different type of involvement when they get older.  Encourage him to become the best player he can be and let the coaches coach.  My suggestion would be to let your son work it out on his own,  I've gone through this 3 times with my sons.  My wife and I are there 24x7x365 for advice but they are the ones who decide what to do.  Let your son step up and take these challenges on his own.  High school baseball can be challenging, but he has to do this on his own.  So, stand by him, and support him the best you can by empowering him.   JMO.

 

Good luck.

Whether you get hammered on here or not is going to depend on how you take the advice of the posts you're getting.  So far everyone has been pretty consistent with some great follow up questions by cabbagedad that will allow us to understand things more.  If you read all this great advice and still complain and whine about how bad this coach is you're going to get hammered.  If you take it and try to make it work then you will get sympathy and empathy. 

 

Unfortunately, there are some bad coaches out there just like there are bad lawyers, doctors and plumbers.  Taking what you've posted at face value it sounds like you have a bad one.  But we just have your side so we all take what you say with a grain of salt.  The advice has been spot on - you do not get involved unless the health of your son is in jeopardy.  He's spoken up for himself and that's about all he can do.  

 

One thing that I need more information is when he told the coach he wasn't a scrub - was that in front of the rest of the team?  If so then he's dug a hole he may not get out of.  A comment like that is for behind closed door meeting with the coach but never in front of the team.  That is challenging and undermining the coaches authority as leader of the team.  If he's as bad as you say he will say your son has an attitude and will bury him on the bench.  Right or wrong doesn't matter here - he is the coach and he has the ultimate power when he writes out the line up card.  Never do or say anything to give the coach a reason to not write you in.  Show up everyday with great attitude, great teammate, great hustle and everything else that goes into being a great player.

Originally Posted by FNL:
Originally Posted by Nicks mom:
He also is a very good outfielder and can play ss, 1st, 2nd despite being a lefty. 

 

Originally Posted by SluggerDad:

Circle the firing squad.  Ready... Aim....

 

He could maybe take a few grounders at 3rd. Has he tried catching?

 

(OK, that's kind of mean of me, I'm sorry - but I couldn't resist)

 

Don't put too much stock into the whole HS baseball thing. HS baseball is just a small part of a kid's career. If he works hard on his own and plays on a competitive summer team he will get a chance to show he can play. You will find a thousand ways a HS coach can ruin your season on here. Just get through it and remember that the coach that is recruiting your kid this summer will care very little about HS.

 

Dont risk the doghouse!

Thanks for all the great feedback. Granted, I may not know all that you guys/gals know, particularly at this level of play, that's why I sought out this site so I can get the info/advice I need. I apologize if I was whining, that wasn't the intention. I'm trying to understand the mindset of the coach so I can help my son figure out what he needs to do. My son has always, always been encouraged to take on life's challenges on his own. He's probably better at it than most.

 

Someone asked whether he had his conversation in front of his teammates. Nick knows better. He asked the coach to talk after the game, in private.

 

Cabbagedad, I only know that basic stats. Nick and I are going to review your questions and get answers. We are very interested in the feedback: good, bad or indifferent.

 

Your words were encouraging. And,despite having the same advice for Nick that many of you gave, he was not receptive to it.  I'm a mom. What do I know? I told him what the vast majority of you have advised. He went to practice at 530am with a smile on his face and determination to prove he should play. 

 

We will also seek out a high-caliber club team.

Originally Posted by Nicks mom:
Nicks Mom:  Welcome to the site. I echo much of what the other posters said--your son should continue to work and practice hard. You never know when the "call" will come. One of the other dynamics here that may be at play is that a number of HS programs will play seniors as it's the last rodeo for a number of them, On average, my son's HS varsity team has 4 sophomores each year who play very little. But it says what the coach thinks of those four for the future of "the program." If he is a LHP, perhaps he'll get a start at JV. 

You've gotten excellent advice above.  And your son did the first thing many on here would have advised - talk to the coach himself.

 

Nearly all of us on here have experienced what you have in one way or another.  Might've been an all-star coach, or a travel coach...or another HS coach.  As pointed out above, even the very best professional baseball players find themselves in confusing situations not too different from this one more than once in their career.

 

Keep in mind that most private instructors, if paid by you, will tell you wonderful things about your son.  For one, they nearly all believe they can help...they are optimists as they should be!  But they also want to build a relationship with you and your son.  A good relationship gives them a better shot at helping your son and they want you to come back (and keep paying them).

 

Whats the good news?  HS season ends soon.  Summer will be upon us and if you find the right summer team - your son will re-find the joy of playing baseball.  We went through some of this with our older son.  As a freshman in HS, his coach f-bombed him over and over in front of the team and a year later his varsity coach as a sophomore called me and threatened that he'd never pitch in his program again if he took one more pitching lesson all while acknowledging he was the best pitcher in his program.

 

Sometimes these things take care of themselves (both coaches were removed cause I guess the AD saw the same things we did)...sometimes they do not.  But your son does have a real-life situation right in front of him and I believe your role is much more about mentoring him/guiding him through it as he grows into a young man.  You can better prepare him for life than baseball here if you take on the challenge constructively.

 

Terrific opportunity for you as a parent - do your best to take advantage of it. 

Welcome Nick's mom!  The more experienced posters have given lots of advice, so I don't have much to add except in the form of being a baseball mom.  Do not under any circumstances approach the coach regarding playing time.  You will be labeled as "that mom" and it will follow your son throughout high school.  He had a discussion with the coach so coach knows he's eager to earn it.  Now it is up to him to prove it.  He needs to have the most hustle, be the first one there, be the one racing after foul balls down the line, etc.  Also remember, he's a sophomore, so there are a lot of upper classmen that coach is more familiar with and its possible coach is giving them a chance to succeed or fail before giving away their spots.  

 

As parents, we are now in the role of support staff.  For me, at least, this means getting him where he needs to go, making sure uniform is clean (we've had great conversations while standing over the sink with bars of Fels Napha soap and white pants...he helps because I am definitely not doing the 50s housewife thing!), listen when he needs to vent, provide constructive feedback if needed, and kick his butt a little if needed.  There is no bashing of teammates allowed.  I cannot stress this enough!  These are his teammates and like family.  I would never put down one of my children in order to make the other feel better, so why would it be ok with teammates? No talking negative about coaches. 

 

I believe Chicagoland has better competition than my neck of the woods, but even around here, mid 70s doesn't put a pitcher in the stud category.  If your son is passionate, make sure he's on the best summer team possible and go to a showcase if he hasn't already.  PBR has lots of local events in Illinois that are relatively inexpensive.  This will give you an accurate starting point to gauge how he stacks up regarding 60 times, arm speed, exit velo and they give a paragraph write up regarding performance.  The top showcases are Perfect Game, but are much more costly and a ways away.  If you can afford it, do it, but it's not an option for us at this time.  The off season is where he will need to work hard regarding strength so that he can show up next season and prove he's a beast.  My son, packed on 15 lbs of muscle, hit the weights hard and trained like there was no tomorrow.  It paid off.  Notice that I said he did it.  If it's their dream, they need to do it.  Mom cannot be hounding them to lift or workout.  The only time I am "hands on" is if he needs a cage session and dad isn't home (this is how he works through things mentally).  I will sit behind the screen with my batting helmet and toss balls silently as he works through whatever is going on in that head and try not to squeal like a girl.

 

And remember, you need to behave and not share any of your thoughts regarding playing time with anyone in the stands.  There are 40+ parents on your side alone that believe their player is the best out there.  

Originally Posted by Nicks mom:

 

Someone asked whether he had his conversation in front of his teammates. Nick knows better. He asked the coach to talk after the game, in private.

 

 

Hate to tell you this but this probably was not the best time to talk to the coach.  Problem is there is nothing that can be done about it now.  If he goes back to the coach again it will be perceived as whining.  Most folks don't realize it but coaching a game can be a little taxing.  Especially if you are in the mist of a loosing season.  Having a kid come up to you and tell you that "I can get you the w" after you just lost can be interrupted as "hey coach, your line up sucks, if you would have put me in there, because Im so great (and you don't realize it) we would be winning".  

 

You son took the right approach to talking to the coach, I would have suggested he approach him during school or after a practice to ask him when the best time to talk was.  Surprising the coach right after a game probably was not the best approach to take.  He asked the right question when he asked what he needed to do to earn playing time.  He should have just listened to the coach and left it at that.

 

As others have said, there is not much he can do.  He can either remain bitter and think that he is better then the rest of the team or he can accept his role on the team, have fun and be ready to play when called upon.  As he is a lefty he is regulated to pitching, playing 1B or outfield at this point.  

 

I will also throw this out there.  I don't know your son so none of this might apply.  How does your son approach practice?  Does he walk around like he is better then everyone or does he give 100% every time and remain a team player?  How are his grades?  Is he a boarder line eligibility kid?  Does he understand the game?  By that I mean does he know what to do in every situation?  Some kids have wonderful skill sets but don't understand the flow of the game and may not make the proper play.

 

In HS there are a lot more things that go into a coaches playing decision then just the biggest strongest most athletic kids.  

 

One last thought.  Maybe the kids on the field are better players then you are seeing right now.  In our area its early in the season.  We have just started conference play and a lot of the kids are facing reduced playing time.  I heard a little grumbling last night and will probably hear some more tonight.  Im sure the coaches will receive a phone call or two in the next few days.  What a lot of the parents are not seeing is that up until last night everyone received equal playing time.  Now we are playing our best 10 to 14 kids.  As we were playing everyone earlier in the season the starters were dealing with reduced playing time and are still getting into the grove of playing.

 

Finally, you are going to get some good advice on here.  Some of it may be a little brutal and may not be what you are looking for but its probably all going to be right on.  Listen to the folks here.  Hang out some.  Many of these people have kids who have gone through what you are going through.  Many of them have sons playing in college, some have kids playing Minor ball and a few have kids that have played on the big stage. 

Hi Nick's Mom...you have gotten good advice, but the fact is no one knows what is in the coaches head.  He could be playing favorites, he could be playing upper level classmen to get them exposure for college, he could even be testing the team to see how they do with being sat.  *shrug*

 

All your kid can control is himself.  He should work hard, show the coach his determination, show he can be an asset to the team, show himself to be a good teammate by picking up kids who strike out, congratulating players who got out but moved the runner, and in general enjoy being part of a baseball team...and that's all he can do. He needs to accept that he may not play another inning this whole year, and any inning he does get to play should be cherished...there are no rules that say the coach HAS to play him. Once your son accepts there is nothing he can do to change the coach is when he will likely finally get the opportunity to play again. 

First of all welcome to the site. You are in a tough spot. So maybe I can offer you some words of encouragement. Lets talk about you first. You are hurting for your son because you want him to get what he wants to get. When our children want something we want to help them get it. When they are upset we are upset. And when we feel there is nothing we can do to help them, or we feel like we just don't know what to do that is not only frustrating it's painful.

 

What your son needs to know is that no matter what goes on on that field you love him just the same. That no matter if he plays a little, a lot, or not at all that has no bearing on how proud of him you are. Encourage him to continue to work hard. To go to practice each day excited about the opportunity to get better and to prove the coach wrong. Encourage him to keep a good attitude and not to sit around waiting for an opportunity but work to be prepared for it.

 

Stay positive he is tougher than you think. He will handle it much better than you. He will handle it better if you handle it well. The worse thing that can happen if you take the positive approach is that he doesn't get much PT this year. But he keeps a positive attitude and goes into the summer hungry to play and work even harder than he has before. You can use this as an opportunity to show him that when adversity strikes you hold fast. You stay positive and look for ways to turn it into a positive. Sometimes the things we think are horrible are the things that drive us to where we can go.

 

Let this build a fire under your son. Use it to build a fire under your son. Don't go the other way with it. When someone tells you your not good enough you have choices to make. Prove them right or prove them wrong. Use it as motivation or use it as an excuse to become bitter and have a bad attitude. Let your son continue to do what he is doing. Encourage him. Tell him to keep fighting. Tough times don't last. Tough people do. Good luck. Baseball is not a sprint. It's a marathon. Run the full race. Don't let today keep you from having a great tomorrow. Again, good luck.

Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

       

Hi Nick's Mom and welcome to the site.  A few questions to get some more perspective...  you said he has speed - what is his 60 time?  What is his home-to-first time?  What is his batted ball exit speed?  Does he have a PG rating?  Which top travel/club team is he currently signed up with?  Which varsity level top travel/club teams are calling asking him to play this coming summer?  The HS team he is on now, is it varsity or JV?  22 on the team - did they have cuts and if so, how many tried out?  What is top velocity of the hardest throwing pitcher on the team?  Setting aside his strengths for a moment, what weaknesses do you think he has that are keeping him from getting more playing time?  What does your son see as his best position?  When he squares balls up against live pitching, hitting to the opposite field, how far does the ball typically travel?  Same question pull side?  Does he hit lefty?  I look forward to your answers so I can try to provide proper guidance.


       
+1 to this.  Please give us facts.  Real recorded pitch velocity.  Exit velocities etc.  Further I am going to be honest here.  I really thought this was a veteran poster creating a new identity just to be funny.  As I read it I found myself getting a good laugh thinking it was clever and I wish I would have thought of it.  When I got to the ss part then I knew it was a bit.  Then I wasn't sure.  And now I think this may actually be real.  Still I don't want to be sucked in by a late april fools joke!  But at the risk of getting duped I will play along.  Mom, get some of these numbers verified.  Objective data can do a lot to figure out where you really stand.  Statistics at this level are just about meaningless.  Maybe coach was being nice and giving him his at bats against inferior pitchers?  Who knows.  But an exit velocity is what it is.  A 60 time is what it is etc.  I am guessing you may not know what these things are.  60 is a 60 yard dash.  Exit velocity is how fast the ball comes off wood or bbcor bat off the tee.  Find someone with a stalker and either from behind a screen gun the ball coming at you or sit behind the cage and.gun it going away from you.  Let us know.
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
Originally Posted by cabbagedad:

       

Hi Nick's Mom and welcome to the site.  A few questions to get some more perspective...  you said he has speed - what is his 60 time?  What is his home-to-first time?  What is his batted ball exit speed?  Does he have a PG rating?  Which top travel/club team is he currently signed up with?  Which varsity level top travel/club teams are calling asking him to play this coming summer?  The HS team he is on now, is it varsity or JV?  22 on the team - did they have cuts and if so, how many tried out?  What is top velocity of the hardest throwing pitcher on the team?  Setting aside his strengths for a moment, what weaknesses do you think he has that are keeping him from getting more playing time?  What does your son see as his best position?  When he squares balls up against live pitching, hitting to the opposite field, how far does the ball typically travel?  Same question pull side?  Does he hit lefty?  I look forward to your answers so I can try to provide proper guidance.


       
+1 to this.  Please give us facts.  Real recorded pitch velocity.  Exit velocities etc.  Further I am going to be honest here.  I really thought this was a veteran poster creating a new identity just to be funny.  As I read it I found myself getting a good laugh thinking it was clever and I wish I would have thought of it.  When I got to the ss part then I knew it was a bit.  Then I wasn't sure.  And now I think this may actually be real.  Still I don't want to be sucked in by a late april fools joke!  But at the risk of getting duped I will play along.  Mom, get some of these numbers verified.  Objective data can do a lot to figure out where you really stand.  Statistics at this level are just about meaningless.  Maybe coach was being nice and giving him his at bats against inferior pitchers?  Who knows.  But an exit velocity is what it is.  A 60 time is what it is etc.  I am guessing you may not know what these things are.  60 is a 60 yard dash.  Exit velocity is how fast the ball comes off wood or bbcor bat off the tee.  Find someone with a stalker and either from behind a screen gun the ball coming at you or sit behind the cage and.gun it going away from you.  Let us know.

Or if you could take a look at PBR and see when they are running showcases in the area.  Attend one and they will give you all the measurable you will need.

Originally Posted by joes87:
Originally Posted by Nicks mom:

 

 Having a kid come up to you and tell you that "I can get you the w" after you just lost can be interrupted as "hey coach, your line up sucks, if you would have put me in there, because Im so great (and you don't realize it) we would be winning".  

 

I'll agree probably not the most diplomatic statement, but I'd give him credit for the "swag." 

Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

If you come back with numbers will it change your situation with this coach in this situation? No. The coach has seen your son play. He knows how hard he throws, how fast he is, etc. He has told your son that he thinks these other guys are better by playing those other guys more than him. A coach speaks with his line up card. Now if you come back with outstanding numbers for a LH Soph - posters can say "Yep that coach is crazy." "Your son is good enough based on those numbers." And what does that do for you?

 

The fact is there is only one thing for your son to do. Go out every day and work to change the coaches perception of him as a player. When he practices, practice harder and better than everyone else. When he gets opportunities take advantage of them. Instead of waiting for an opportunity, prepare for it. The coach doesn't think your son is good enough to play anymore than he already is right now. Change that. Change the perception of him as a player. Or validate it. I would choose change it.

 

And if he doesn't change the coaches perception, fine. At least he hasn't given in. At least he hasn't quit. At least he has the summer to continue to work towards those goals, He can work towards coming back next season and shoving in everyone's face when he is the better option.

 

You coming back and giving us numbers does not change one thing. It only gives people here an opportunity to say "Those numbers indicate he is an average Soph" "Thoes numbers indicate the coach is wrong." When the fact is not being there at practice and at games to evaluate the competition he is up against and his own ability means we have no freaking clue.

 

What I do know is that he is in control of one thing. How he approaches the situation. And you are in control of one thing. How you approach the situation. YOU support him. Encourage him. Point him the right direction. Stay positive and tell him to fight for what he wants. And he needs to do just that. Mid 70's with command for a soph LH can be Mid 70's with command for a LH Jr with a bad attitude. Or it can be upper 70's with command low 80's and shoving it with a fighters attitude. How hard is he willing to work for it? How determined are you to stay positive and be his best fan?

 

Don't get discouraged and worry yourself to death over this. Tell him to get in there and keep fighting. Tell him to talk with his arm, glove, bat and work ethic. Prove the coach wrong. As a coach I love to be proven wrong in these situations. There is nothing better than to see a young man overcome the line up card. It makes the team better. It makes a program better. Again, good luck.

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

20-30 hours before the season begins?   That's at least an hour per player per coach for observation and evaluation before games start, in your scenario.  That's plenty.

 

My son's team plays 2 games per week now in season.  Parents of players who are 2 and third options off the bench don't see the hundreds of reps each player is getting on the other 4 days of the week, so they really have no sense of the total of what the coach is considering when he makes out his lineup card each week.

 

To the OP I don't have much to add to what's been said already, except:  Advise your son be the first kid to practice and the last to leave.  Be the first out of the dugout to get a foul ball.  Put the last rake in the shed.  Take charge of what you can control -- your own attitude, effort, and preparation.  Make sure you find a home on a summer team that will give you meaningful playing time.

Last edited by JCG
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by joes87:
Originally Posted by Nicks mom:

 

 Having a kid come up to you and tell you that "I can get you the w" after you just lost can be interrupted as "hey coach, your line up sucks, if you would have put me in there, because Im so great (and you don't realize it) we would be winning".  

 

I'll agree probably not the most diplomatic statement, but I'd give him credit for the "swag." 

I like a little confidence myself....  Though if I just lost a game, trying to oversee the kids get the field cleaned up, and am trying to get home to my family I probably would have reacted similar to the coach.

Coaches, most coaches, might change their mind and make line ups out differently.

 

Most coaches can watch a round or two of batting practice and figure out who their best hitters are.  A round or two of infield and figure out who their best infielders are. Watch them throw and figure out who has the best arm.

 

Usually the top several standout and are easy starters.  Usually there are a couple spots that require making a tougher decision.  Left handed throwers don't have a future at positions other than 1B, OF, or LHP, so playing any other position is kind of out of the picture.

 

Sometimes we see coaches play kids out of their best position.  Sometimes it just happens because of need.  However we have seen a few of the very best pitchers in their state, that were not used as pitchers on their high school teams.

 

Anyway, it's really not very difficult to watch 20 kids play baseball for a couple days and figure out who has the most talent.  Though I must admit, there has been some very strange things happen.  One of the most talented kids in the country in the 2016 class did not start for his high school team.  In fact, he hardly played.  He would have been his HS teams best pitcher (93 with a very good breaking ball and great command as a sophomore) and he is an even better position player and hitter with power.  He will be a good draft pick in 2016.  He also is a good kid and team player who plays hard and loves to compete.  He actually was one of the stars of a highest level national summer team. Not sure if anyone would have known about him had he not played for that team.

 

So mistakes do happen, for one reason or another, but if a player has what it takes he can overcome those problems.  Talent sticks out like a sore thumb and there are many people that can recognize it.

Originally Posted by JCG:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

20-30 hours before the season begins?   That's at least an hour per player per coach for observation and evaluation before games start, in your scenario.  That's plenty.

 

My son's team plays 2 games per week now in season.  Parents of players who are 2 and third options off the bench don't see the hundreds of reps each player is getting on the other 4 days of the week, so they really have no sense of the total of what the coach is considering when he makes out his lineup card each week.

 

To the OP I don't have much to add to what's been said already, except:  Advise your son be the first kid to practice and the last to leave.  Be the first out of the dugout to get a foul ball.  Put the last rake in the shed.  Take charge of what you can control -- your own attitude, effort, and preparation.  Make sure you find a home on a summer team that will give you meaningful playing time.

I'm not sure an hour is really enough when compared to the years I have seen some kids grow and develop.  Some of us have seen the kids succeed and fail in multiple situations while they where growing up - a lot more than 1 hour.   If the kid is having a bad day, then what?  I don't know about your program, but in my kid's the backups are not getting 100s of reps. during weekly practice.  The "starters" get the majority of work.  The backups have limited opportunities to change the coach's initial impression.  So they better be ready. 

Can't get past fact that he's only LHP on team and has only gotten 5 innings.

how did he do in those innings?  Are there a lot of pitchers on this team that are studs and they don't need your son as much?

Just thinking if coach sees him as future P he would have sent him to play a few JV games to get him on mound. 

If son doesn't already, he needs to find P instructor locally. Sounds like P is only way for him to get to play in his HS. They always need GOOD LHP. Maybe he can get good enough to be the closer they turn to his Sr.. Yr.  

he still has time to work for that

good luck

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

Last edited by ironhorse
Originally Posted by Coach_May:

First of all welcome to the site. You are in a tough spot. So maybe I can offer you some words of encouragement. Lets talk about you first. You are hurting for your son because you want him to get what he wants to get. When our children want something we want to help them get it. When they are upset we are upset. And when we feel there is nothing we can do to help them, or we feel like we just don't know what to do that is not only frustrating it's painful.

 

What your son needs to know is that no matter what goes on on that field you love him just the same. That no matter if he plays a little, a lot, or not at all that has no bearing on how proud of him you are. Encourage him to continue to work hard. To go to practice each day excited about the opportunity to get better and to prove the coach wrong. Encourage him to keep a good attitude and not to sit around waiting for an opportunity but work to be prepared for it.

 

Stay positive he is tougher than you think. He will handle it much better than you. He will handle it better if you handle it well. The worse thing that can happen if you take the positive approach is that he doesn't get much PT this year. But he keeps a positive attitude and goes into the summer hungry to play and work even harder than he has before. You can use this as an opportunity to show him that when adversity strikes you hold fast. You stay positive and look for ways to turn it into a positive. Sometimes the things we think are horrible are the things that drive us to where we can go.

 

Let this build a fire under your son. Use it to build a fire under your son. Don't go the other way with it. When someone tells you your not good enough you have choices to make. Prove them right or prove them wrong. Use it as motivation or use it as an excuse to become bitter and have a bad attitude. Let your son continue to do what he is doing. Encourage him. Tell him to keep fighting. Tough times don't last. Tough people do. Good luck. Baseball is not a sprint. It's a marathon. Run the full race. Don't let today keep you from having a great tomorrow. Again, good luck.

I don't know if anyone could have said it better.  One of the best, most inspiring posts I have ever read.  Thank you!

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

I would add that Winter Workouts and Summer/Fall Ball, if the team has it, can have an effect too.

Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

+1

Originally Posted by Nicks mom:

Thanks for all the great feedback. Granted, I may not know all that you guys/gals know, particularly at this level of play, that's why I sought out this site so I can get the info/advice I need. ...

 

Cabbagedad, I only know that basic stats. Nick and I are going to review your questions and get answers. We are very interested in the feedback: good, bad or indifferent.

 

Your words were encouraging. And,despite having the same advice for Nick that many of you gave, he was not receptive to it.  I'm a mom. What do I know? I told him what the vast majority of you have advised. He went to practice at 530am with a smile on his face and determination to prove he should play. 

 

We will also seek out a high-caliber club team.

Nick's Mom, to be honest, I anticipated that you would not have many of the answers (although I thought you would have a few).  I presented those questions for several reasons.  Coach May is right in the fact that it won't change the coach's current assessment of your son.  But I sensed from your opening post that there is probably a significant gap of awareness of the skill sets your son possesses and what the coach is looking for at the HS level.  Those questions were formed with the intent of letting you know that most HS varsity starters are working hard in the off-season to hone their skills.  Most are playing with decent club programs and tracking their measurables so that they know specifically where they stand and what they need to work on.  Many are attending the better showcases so they have a better feel for where the bar is when it comes to better players in the area and region.  I'm not saying that your son has to do all these things.  Confidence is good but some humility via awareness can go a long way.

 

Little League coach feedback isn't really relevant at this point.  That was several levels ago and the funnel continues to narrow.  Good private instruction is great but keep in mind that it is in their best interest to communicate lots of positive comments.

 

Agree with others that it was the right question to ask at the wrong time.  I will add... a coach looks for all players to embrace their role.  Your son said "I am not a scrub.." to the coach.  That could be seen as disrespectful to the fact that the coach has chosen for him to be a member of the team in some role.  It is important for all players to embrace their role in order for the team to be successful, even if that role is keeping the book, helping with runners and creating positive atmosphere on the bench.  I know that was not his intent but, again, just for awareness.

 

Nine plate appearances in what I would guess would be late inning non-critical situations or starts against lesser opponents are not what should be used as your measuring stick.  As others mentioned, his PT is earned primarily by what coaches see with the hundreds of daily reps, daily attitude, speed, arm strength, power, game awareness and ability to execute at the current level.

 

I would caution against putting much thought or stock into the posts that suggest your son is sitting because he may have a bad coach who is not evaluating your son fairly or properly.  Even if true, it is not where your son needs to be focusing his efforts in order to earn that PT he desires.  His focus should be on getting so much better that he leaves no doubt.

 

Lastly, you mentioned your son was not receptive to some of the advice.  So, he may feel he is not getting a fair shot.  To put what others have said in a different way... he can either whine and mope about the injustice and make things worse or he can come to grips with the fact that it is this coach who he must impress with his play and attitude and put every effort possible into accomplishing this.

  

 

 

Last edited by cabbagedad

I would also add that son's coach puts value in doing everything for the team.  Not just playing, cheering, being a good teammate, but also field maintenance.  Son told me the other day, don't worry about why XXXX isn't playing.  He's not playing because he's lazy.  He said he doesn't show-up early for field maintenance, and by not doing so, he is not being a team player.  Son said XXXX won't play, and he hasn't played for the last 4 games.

Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

While I am sure they are getting good, solid, reps, the amounts just don't add up.  If you take your 9 starters and give them 1000 fielding reps and 1000 hitting reps, that's 18,000 total reps over 30 hours.  That's something like 600 reps per hour.  Unless you have a lot of coaches and resources and can break up into many stations, you're probably doing something significantly less than 1000 reps per player.  Especially for the backups (probably another 5-10 kids), who probably get less than the starters. 

 

At my son's school resources are tight.  They only have two tunnels.  Varsity monopolizes them.  So the lower levels rarely get to hit on a regular basis.  With a single coach, situational infield/outfield is a slow process. 

 

Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

And BA and OBP mean very little to the coach if he's not squaring up and barreling the ball.

My suggestion for fast track to PT.

HIT HIT HIT. And I mean hit. Not bloops, not walks, HIT

He gets one AB? He better produce. Or he will sit.

Some perspective....

 

Be thankful wherever your son is.  Be most thankful that he is a vibrant, healthy boy.  My son got called up late to varsity his sophomore year, got no playing time whatsoever, and yet, we were beside ourselves with joy.  He played for the largest public high school in the state of Ohio and even making the freshmen team was an achievement let alone getting playing time on varsity as a sophomore.  I never advised him one time in his career to talk to the coach.  The coach speaks to the team with the lineup card.  The player will not change that decision based on verbal argument.

 

Look, this whole topic and debate boils down to control.  Control the things you can control and let go of the things you can't.  This will take the 800 lb. gorilla off you and your son's shoulders.

 

What you absolutely CANNOT control:

Coach's decision

 

What you CAN control:

1a) Your attitude

1b) Your effort

 

Focus on the what you can's and let go of the what you cannot's.  It will simply your life and lead to ultimate happiness.  Now encourage the young man to get to work and have the best attitude on the team.  Encourage him to do this while keeping his mouth shut.  Someone will eventually notice. 

Originally Posted by Everyday Dad:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

And BA and OBP mean very little to the coach if he's not squaring up and barreling the ball.

My suggestion for fast track to PT.

HIT HIT HIT. And I mean hit. Not bloops, not walks, HIT

He gets one AB? He better produce. Or he will sit.

I mentioned in one of my posts about starting to hear some parents chirp about playing time now that we have settled into conf. play.  Im sure I will start hearing about my sons hitting the last two games.  O for 3 w/walk last night 0 for 2 w/2walks game before.  If you looked at his BA you would say he's only an average hitter.  What the BA does not show is the pitcher pitching 50 MPH two games ago.  Kid was way out in front of the ball.  He knows it, the coach knows it.  He was one of the few kids to actually put the ball into play.  Last night he went 0 for again.  He was hitting the snot out of the ball.  2 kids made exceptional plays to keep my kid off base.  As my son said. "sometimes you just hit them right at the kids; dad".  


Yet the other kids, whose parents will chirp,  strike out at bat.  My kids average is probably the same as some of theirs at this point, but he only has 2 Ks on the season.   He was hitting .698 before he went into the 2 game slump.

Last edited by joes87
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

While I am sure they are getting good, solid, reps, the amounts just don't add up.  If you take your 9 starters and give them 1000 fielding reps and 1000 hitting reps, that's 18,000 total reps over 30 hours.  That's something like 600 reps per hour.  Unless you have a lot of coaches and resources and can break up into many stations, you're probably doing something significantly less than 1000 reps per player.  Especially for the backups (probably another 5-10 kids), who probably get less than the starters. 

 

At my son's school resources are tight.  They only have two tunnels.  Varsity monopolizes them.  So the lower levels rarely get to hit on a regular basis.  With a single coach, situational infield/outfield is a slow process. 

 

Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

We do 4-fungo infield 3 times a week for 30 minutes at a time. There are variations to it, but each position gets roughly 400 groundballs hit to them a day (we don't slow down swinging or we use machines/fungoman, so about a gb every 4 sec or 15 a minute for calculation). About 5 deep at every infield position (sr - freshman), that's about 80 gbs a day or 240 a week at the bare minimum. 30 hours is over three weeks of practice for us (only 8 hrs per week per UIL), so you can see we're close to or past the 1000+ mark I referenced off the cuff, and that's just in our one drill. ANd most of those are quality reps with our kids.

 

If you mean 1 coach with one fungo and 9-kids on the field than you have a point, but like I said, that's a very crappy practice.

Ok with my luck this will be the n last straw and I will be the one yelled at for hijacking!!  But I do like the debate on practice reps.  Ironhorse I agree on the reps.  In fact I dont even have infielders throw back.  Start with two buckets one by me and one by no more than 4 fielders.  I hit they field and drop in their bucket.  Rapid fire.  When my bucket is empty they run theirs in and switch.  Hundreds of grounders in a short amount of time.  Stations are the key.  If you don't have a lot of coaches then groups of 2 doing flips, hitting from tees, fly balls (2 groups total 4), ground balls (2 groups total of 4) that's 12 kids.  Got more?  Add a couple stations.  How about 4 kids (2 pairs) working on rundown catch?  The possibilities are endless.  And you really only need 2 coaches.  Too much standing around at baseball practices!  Let's improve our reputations and get organized!  Everyone doing something!
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 


Last night I umpired a lopsided game that ended by run rule after 4-1/2 innings. The home coach started subbing players in the bottom of the third and had all nine of his eligible substitutes in the line up by the bottom of the fourth.

 

Even with a 14-run lead, he watched every at bat his subs took with keen interest. Every time one of them took a strike he didn't approve of them letting go by, he barked out a reminder that this was their chance to show they can hit and if they don't want to hit, they will sit.

 

One at bat in a blow out may not be much of an opportunity, but if it's the only one you get, you'd better seize it.  

 

 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

How much of an opportunity the kid has to show himself may depend on the off season. He needs to be aware of every opportunity to show himself. In the fall of soph year my son passed on travel and played for the high school fall ball team. This was even though he was on varsity soccer.  He had shortstop won by the end of fall ball. Tryouts in the spring were a formality. He had been called the heir apparent since 8th grade. But he wasn't taking any chances. He also attended every winter indoor workout.

Originally Posted by RJM:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by RJM:

Most coaches aren't stupid. Typically they can judge talent. They see a lot more than the parent sees. And they don't see it with bias. If it appears the coach has a favorite player it's typically one that works the hardest or is the most talented.

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

So not to put pressure on the kid, but realize that there is a very small window of opportunity to impress a coach and bump a "starter."  He may only have a handful of pitches to show he can hit, or a few balls to show he can field.  So he has to be ready to perform.  That is where the arriving early, staying late, and busting a$$ can play a part.   

How much of an opportunity the kid has to show himself may depend on the off season. He needs to be aware of every opportunity to show himself. In the fall of soph year my son passed on travel and played for the high school fall ball team. This was even though he was on varsity soccer.  He had shortstop won by the end of fall ball. Tryouts in the spring were a formality. He had been called the heir apparent since 8th grade. But he wasn't taking any chances. He also attended every winter indoor workout.

Very true.  My son has pretty much been to everything he is eligible for.  Camps prior to frosh year, summer ball, any meetings, and off season workouts --when he could.  Our school prohibits in season athletes from attending the off season open gym workouts during their active season.  So when they ran the open gym's this past winter my son was playing basketball.  He was not allowed to attend the baseball open gym.  I've been told they primarily do this for two reasons.  1 - to keep the kids from burning out.  2 - To make sure an in season athlete does not get hurt at an open gym.


In addition to the school stuff, my kid would work out with his travel team 2 or 3 days a week during the off season.  How many days he got in depended on his football/basketball schedule.  In addition starting in December he worked out with his hitting and pitching coaches as well.  His travel program actually ran practices 5 days a week but due to the basketball schedule he could only make W, Sat and Sun.  And W and Sat were hit or miss depending on his basketball schedule.  

 

 

 

 

I have a very good friend who was a year and a class behind me in sports. He was very talented. He was a QB in football and a LHP in baseball. But he was one year behind a dominant class that won state titles in both sports. As a soph QB he played JV while a junior watched a senior be all state. The next year as a junior he carried the clipboard while the QB a class above him became all state. Then senior year my friend was the starting QB after every starter but one graduated. He spent the season running for his life until he got injured. He could have been all state had he started either of the previous two years.

 

in baseball he was on JV as a soph. There were five pitchers ahead of him. Three were drafted in the top twenty rounds of the MLB draft. My friend was skilled enough to make the Legion team as a soph (no travel then). But he was behind the high school pitchers plus two more from a Catholic school (one drafted). Only one pitcher left after that year. He sat through another season. The Legion team won two state championships. My friend barely pitched until his last year of Legion. He dominated. He went on to pitch at he D1 level for a team that went to the College World Series.

 

The problem my friend had wasn't a stupid or unfair coach. He was buried behind a load of talent. Now, what do you think the dads thought of the Legion coach when their son's backups on the high school team started over them in Legion? The high school and Legion coaches saw and evaluated the talent differently. Personally I thought the Legion coach got it right. But the truth was it was just two coaches seeing different abilities in players.

Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

While I am sure they are getting good, solid, reps, the amounts just don't add up.  If you take your 9 starters and give them 1000 fielding reps and 1000 hitting reps, that's 18,000 total reps over 30 hours.  That's something like 600 reps per hour.  Unless you have a lot of coaches and resources and can break up into many stations, you're probably doing something significantly less than 1000 reps per player.  Especially for the backups (probably another 5-10 kids), who probably get less than the starters. 

 

At my son's school resources are tight.  They only have two tunnels.  Varsity monopolizes them.  So the lower levels rarely get to hit on a regular basis.  With a single coach, situational infield/outfield is a slow process. 

 

Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

We do 4-fungo infield 3 times a week for 30 minutes at a time. There are variations to it, but each position gets roughly 400 groundballs hit to them a day (we don't slow down swinging or we use machines/fungoman, so about a gb every 4 sec or 15 a minute for calculation). About 5 deep at every infield position (sr - freshman), that's about 80 gbs a day or 240 a week at the bare minimum. 30 hours is over three weeks of practice for us (only 8 hrs per week per UIL), so you can see we're close to or past the 1000+ mark I referenced off the cuff, and that's just in our one drill. ANd most of those are quality reps with our kids.

 

If you mean 1 coach with one fungo and 9-kids on the field than you have a point, but like I said, that's a very crappy practice.

Please put me in touch with your admissions office and a good local realtor....I'm moving my family to your district.  You might have a few sharp edges , but your program appears to be what most of us would wish for our kids.  Kudos to you, sir.

Originally Posted by Marklaker:
Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by ironhorse:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

While somewhat true, I would caution about how much a HS coach actually sees.  If you just do the math, coaches have very little time before games begin to evaluate players.  Therefore, you could be looking only at 20-30 hrs. of practice time.  With maybe 20 kids on a team, that is at best about an hour of actual skills time.  And in many cases, the penciled in starters will get more time than the backups. 

 

 

Not sure what kind of practices you're used to, but they sound crappy. I would venture to guess that in 30 hours of practice (not factoring in scrimmages and games) my varsity kids have all gotten near 1000+ groundballs/flyballs and 1000 + swings. A lot of those on the field "game-like" reps. Subvarsity kids not identical numbers, but not too far behind.

 

 

While I am sure they are getting good, solid, reps, the amounts just don't add up.  If you take your 9 starters and give them 1000 fielding reps and 1000 hitting reps, that's 18,000 total reps over 30 hours.  That's something like 600 reps per hour.  Unless you have a lot of coaches and resources and can break up into many stations, you're probably doing something significantly less than 1000 reps per player.  Especially for the backups (probably another 5-10 kids), who probably get less than the starters. 

 

At my son's school resources are tight.  They only have two tunnels.  Varsity monopolizes them.  So the lower levels rarely get to hit on a regular basis.  With a single coach, situational infield/outfield is a slow process. 

 

Not to get bogged down into calculations and such, but the reality is the backups are getting less and less opportunities to prove themselves.  They just need to be ready when called. 

We do 4-fungo infield 3 times a week for 30 minutes at a time. There are variations to it, but each position gets roughly 400 groundballs hit to them a day (we don't slow down swinging or we use machines/fungoman, so about a gb every 4 sec or 15 a minute for calculation). About 5 deep at every infield position (sr - freshman), that's about 80 gbs a day or 240 a week at the bare minimum. 30 hours is over three weeks of practice for us (only 8 hrs per week per UIL), so you can see we're close to or past the 1000+ mark I referenced off the cuff, and that's just in our one drill. ANd most of those are quality reps with our kids.

 

If you mean 1 coach with one fungo and 9-kids on the field than you have a point, but like I said, that's a very crappy practice.

Please put me in touch with your admissions office and a good local realtor....I'm moving my family to your district.  You might have a few sharp edges , but your program appears to be what most of us would wish for our kids.  Kudos to you, sir.

I'll agree with that.  You obviously have way more resources then we have.  I'm not sure we even have a full bucket of balls. 

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by Marklaker:
 

Please put me in touch with your admissions office and a good local realtor....I'm moving my family to your district.  You might have a few sharp edges , but your program appears to be what most of us would wish for our kids.  Kudos to you, sir.

I'll agree with that.  You obviously have way more resources then we have.  I'm not sure we even have a full bucket of balls. 

Haha. We definitely have more than adequate resources, but far from the tops in our area. I think what most coaches need are prepared plans and a little creativity. As long as your willing to take the time to teach your kids how the drills work and the importance of quality reps, a lot of times they can start running them themselves, and seniors take ownership of teaching which makes them better. 

I can't really add much, as I believe Coach May and some of the others have hit the nail on the head, but I do have a couple little things to offer.  What is your son's long term goal?  Does he want to play in college?  If so, his HS soph playing time won't have a lot to do with that.  But his grades will.  His club team will.  His work ethic will.

 

In 6th grade, my 2015 set a goal to make varsity as a freshman.  I'm happy to say he accomplished that goal and has been a V starter since the 3rd game of his freshman year.  As a freshman, he set the goal of playing in college.  I'm happy to say he has signed a scholarship to play in college.  To achieve these goals, above all, he worked extremely hard - on and off the field.  He's never had a drink or smoked anything.  He's never been in any trouble.  He also knows the importance of good grades. And you know what, the first question every college coach he worked out for wasn't "How much playing time did you see in HS?"  It was "What'd you get on your ACT?"

 

I know it's hard for a soph to sit.  I know it's hard for a mom to watch.  Try to look at the big (long term) picture.  Focus on grades, too.  And help in the ways you can.  Not to toot my own horn, but I happen to be a phenom as a front-tosser.  Every day, after a three hour practice, I front toss at least 100 balls to my son.  If it's dark or bad weather, I set more than that on a tee in the garage.  Every night. In season and out. I'm there to listen, and have sat through enough workouts to offer some advice on little tweaks.

 

Be supportive and don't talk to the coach.  Look at the big picture and focus on the long term goal.  Everything will fall in to place.

Originally Posted by FNL:
Originally Posted by Nicks mom:
He also is a very good outfielder and can play ss, 1st, 2nd despite being a lefty. 

 

Originally Posted by SluggerDad:

Circle the firing squad.  Ready... Aim....

 

He could maybe take a few grounders at 3rd. Has he tried catching?

 

(OK, that's kind of mean of me, I'm sorry - but I couldn't resist)

That was kindof mean...but funny.

Now if it were me,  jp would be complaining how mean I am..or in his words....sometimes the best response is no response.

Right jp?

nicksmom, you have gotten excellent advice. Best of luck.

Last edited by TPM

There are posts when you can tell the OP just doesn't know. Many of my conversations over the years have been with people that just didn't know. They need someone they can go to for advice. I once had a mom of a player who played for a team we faced in HS. She got my number from one of our parents during the game. Her son was a stud. I remembered him from the game. She called me and asked me some questions that made it clear she "just didn't know."

 

Their school had a terrible program. I just directed her to a guy that ran a program in their area. Two years later he signed with an ACC school and was drafted after his Jr year. This site is a valuable resource for people who know and don't know. But it also can serve as a means of stress relief for those that feel helpless to help those they love.

Sorry for replying to such an old post but as I google searched this topic I was interested by what everyone said. There was some good advice given and I hope it worked out for the player involved. With that being said my son struggles to get playing time also. He is currently 5'8" 165. He is strong and athletic. He squats 350, benches 150, runs the 60 in 7.4 possibly less now and a time to first in 4.2. His running was clocked by hand at a college scouting clinic. He has above average bat speed and other batting matrix numbers for his grade level. Numbers also taken at the clinic. He throws 76 in the field and 72 on the mound. He can pitch, catch and play outfield. His best position is CF. He has been at the top of his roster every year from 8-14 on travel teams. He started at Single A and as we saw him being the best on the teams we moved him up until he reach a low major team with really good players, but the team was weak on elite pitchers. He leads the team on offense as a leadoff batter and only had 1 error in the outfield after 40 games. He made the freshmen team at 13 in the 8th grade. He had the best tryout I have ever seen him have. He out ran everyone, had great catches and throws and hit the ball to the fence while others barely out of the infield. I noticed quickly that most kids trying out were from Dixie Boys Rec league and not travel ball. I could go on for hours so if you have a question please ask. So 4 8th grade kids made JV. My son started batting last as a DH on the freshman team. By the end of the year he was a DH batting forth and leading the team in overall offense. (Avg,Runs,RBI,Walks, Steals,ect) He rarely ever played in the field. While other less quality batters played were ever they wanted. My son was also never allowed to pitch in a game only scrimmages which he did very well striking out or getting ground outs from the JV team. If ever there was a sub to be made he was the first one pulled every time. The last 4 games were also played with 3 of the 8th grade JV players who could not hang with JV. When they brought them down they took my son's batting opportunities. None of the 3 even batted over .200 while on the Freshman team (He batted a low .400). At the end of the year he was passed up for an award as offensive player of the year. The winner had an average 15 points higher and a higher slugging percentage, my son surpassed him in all other categories and batted less often.  Next year my son has a good tryout almost as good as last year. He was out ran by one other kid if that matters. He made JV yay! He started again DH batting 9th. He is now DH batting 2nd with 2 innings in the outfield out of 11 games and 6 were blowouts we won.  He is currently leading in offense again and in the top 3 in all categories for hitting, stealing and so forth. Two of his team mates that he bats better than have been called up to Varsity. We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year. My son is afraid that he might have him a 3rd year if he stays on JV for a 2nd year. This coach really gets in his head and the game is no longer as fun. please give some advice and ask any question you like. My son would like to transfer to a new school or only play showcase ball the rest of high school. People say to hang in there and be tough but how much is too much if you strive and do your best and their really is nothing to look forward to in HS baseball except when its over you can go play with a better team and coach that appreciates you and encourages you. Input?

Input.....oh dear....my input would be that if he likes practicing with his friends it doesn't matter if he's IN the games.  Sometimes life isn't fair, that's true.  Your choice to stick it out or not. Play only travel ball or not.  For now I would tell him to talk to the coach about how he could get up to Varsity, and I would leave out ALL mention of who he is better than, and just ask for advice to improve.

BBDAD98 posted:

Sorry for replying to such an old post but as I google searched this topic I was interested by what everyone said. There was some good advice given and I hope it worked out for the player involved. With that being said my son struggles to get playing time also. He is currently 5'8" 165. He is strong and athletic. He squats 350, benches 150, runs the 60 in 7.4 possibly less now and a time to first in 4.2. His running was clocked by hand at a college scouting clinic. He has above average bat speed and other batting matrix numbers for his grade level. Numbers also taken at the clinic. He throws 76 in the field and 72 on the mound. He can pitch, catch and play outfield. His best position is CF. He has been at the top of his roster every year from 8-14 on travel teams. He started at Single A and as we saw him being the best on the teams we moved him up until he reach a low major team with really good players, but the team was weak on elite pitchers. He leads the team on offense as a leadoff batter and only had 1 error in the outfield after 40 games. He made the freshmen team at 13 in the 8th grade. He had the best tryout I have ever seen him have. He out ran everyone, had great catches and throws and hit the ball to the fence while others barely out of the infield. I noticed quickly that most kids trying out were from Dixie Boys Rec league and not travel ball. I could go on for hours so if you have a question please ask. So 4 8th grade kids made JV. My son started batting last as a DH on the freshman team. By the end of the year he was a DH batting forth and leading the team in overall offense. (Avg,Runs,RBI,Walks, Steals,ect) He rarely ever played in the field. While other less quality batters played were ever they wanted. My son was also never allowed to pitch in a game only scrimmages which he did very well striking out or getting ground outs from the JV team. If ever there was a sub to be made he was the first one pulled every time. The last 4 games were also played with 3 of the 8th grade JV players who could not hang with JV. When they brought them down they took my son's batting opportunities. None of the 3 even batted over .200 while on the Freshman team (He batted a low .400). At the end of the year he was passed up for an award as offensive player of the year. The winner had an average 15 points higher and a higher slugging percentage, my son surpassed him in all other categories and batted less often.  Next year my son has a good tryout almost as good as last year. He was out ran by one other kid if that matters. He made JV yay! He started again DH batting 9th. He is now DH batting 2nd with 2 innings in the outfield out of 11 games and 6 were blowouts we won.  He is currently leading in offense again and in the top 3 in all categories for hitting, stealing and so forth. Two of his team mates that he bats better than have been called up to Varsity. We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year. My son is afraid that he might have him a 3rd year if he stays on JV for a 2nd year. This coach really gets in his head and the game is no longer as fun. please give some advice and ask any question you like. My son would like to transfer to a new school or only play showcase ball the rest of high school. People say to hang in there and be tough but how much is too much if you strive and do your best and their really is nothing to look forward to in HS baseball except when its over you can go play with a better team and coach that appreciates you and encourages you. Input?

Your son starts every game.  What exactly are you concerned about?  What grade is he in and what level is he playing?  

The simple answer to the playing time riddle is that Coaches play kids that they believe can help them win. Period. This applies not only at the HS level but also college .

That being said , if a kid in fact believes he can help his team win and the Coach sees it differently , the player ( never the parent ) needs to speak to the coach . He needs to be direct and ask the Coach what it's gonna take for him to play or move up to Varsity in this case. At this point most coaches are pretty straight forward in explaining to a player what he needs to do or what the coach needs from him to advance .

It's pretty simple. But most HS kids are afraid to approach the coach. That is sort of a developmental thing at that age. But if he's truly unhappy or unclear about his role or future he needs to start there.

Don't let your son or yourself get caught up in the age old excuse of 'The Coach just doesn't like me' . That is a mistake and will just cloud your judgment . Because it's irrelevant. Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. They have 16-21 guys on Varsity , of those 16-21 guys , sure there may be a couple kids he likes personally more than others and occasionally a dislike and more often than not indifference towards some players, but it will rarely change how he makes out his line up card.

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

Have your son talk to the coach about what it's gonna take to advance in the program. After the meeting sit down with your son and put together a plan to accomplish those goals. Then have him go back to the coach once your son has improved in those areas and Hold the coach to his word.

Last edited by StrainedOblique

Welcome to the site, BBdad.  

You said... "We know the coach does not like him, he said so and its the same coach this year."

Based on the abundance of other information you provided, it is likely not his playing ability that the coach doesn't like.  So, what is it?  I don't know your son's situation or if any of what I am about to share applies.  But in my experience, your son is probably very aware of what the issues are.  And, those issues are very likely to be the same that cause the next coach to not like him as well.  And, assuming I am the least bit on the right track, he needs to face up to those issues and fix them.  He needs to share with the coach that he recognizes them and is addressing them and then he needs to do it.

I head up a decent program and coach V.  I oversee the entire program before we split off.  We have a handful of juniors that are still playing JV this year.  Generally, it is not due to their lack of talent.  Last night, we took advantage of a rain night and I conducted a hitting discussion for the JV group so that they all know the program way and so that they have a clear path toward continued improvement.  Toward the end of the discussion, I had to kick two players out of the meeting.  They were two of the juniors.  It was no real surprise.  They don't lack talent.  They were doing what they do that dictates why they are still on JV.  They comply just enough to stay in the program but don't care sufficiently to address the issues that prevent them from being a part of the next level in the program.

Again, I have no idea how much of this applies to your son.  

I also see that you have been involved in coaching previously and I see that you have quite a depth of statistical info on your son as well as exactly how his numbers compare to others on the team/in the program.  I suspect this won't go over well but my suggestion is that you let go of this, at least to a large extent.  The way you are using the comp numbers is not healthy or productive for your son.  Don't look for reasons he should be "in".  HE should be looking for reasons he is "out" and working toward eliminating those.  He should be working toward being the player the coach wants in the lineup, on the field and in the dugout as a teammate and he should have the goal of leaving no doubt with all three... regardless of who the coach is.

You found a site that can be a treasure trove of information and direction for you both.  I hope my "less than rosy" message doesn't scare you away from using it to the fullest.

 

It doesn't matter, tell him to continue to improve/get better. The situation may seem as a setback but it's a big character builder..........find the positives and forge ahead. Be the best teammate, best ball shagger, the best __(insert)___________................control his attitude and effort. The pieces will fall where they fall as you can't control others and the decisions they make.

I will continue to repeat, attitude and effort! It's very difficult to turn away a player that has a good attitude and works his tail off.

Don't compare other players tools, attributes, ect. It's irrelevant to your sons development as a person and a player. Be consistent working on his own game, energy focused for ONE second on another player is time away from his own improvement.

By taking ownership in his own journey, not blaming others and really focusing on the things he can control, that being attitude and effort.

StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

cabbagedad posted:
StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

You're correct cabbagedad. A good coach that's trying to develop not only a baseball player , but a responsible young man is going to take exception to that rule. Regardless of a players on field talent.

My comment was intended to illustrate a broader point about playing time . And I didn't include or factor in the demands of a High character Coach.

My son was a Top player in HS at a infamous West Coast program w/ a legendary coach. This coach was concerned about developing young men. And in the process Developed a USA Today HS baseball top 25 program

Son, wanted to go to Coachella music festival senior year ( During Season) . He asked the coach if he could miss a Saturday non-league game. Coach said ' Sure if that's what you want to do.

Son played Friday game . Left afterwards for festival missed Saturday , returned from Coachella and following Wed game was BENCHED.

When son asked coach about it , he said ' Coach I talked to you about going and missing a game , why did you bench me ?"  Coach said " That is correct. You did talk talk to me. And you asked me about missing the game and outlined your whole plan and I told you , You can do whatever you want to do. But you never asked my permission . You just dictated to me what your intention was , Without any solicitation of my opinion or how your actions would effect the team.....So, you'll sit and think about all that today"

cabbagedad posted:
StrainedOblique posted:

... Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. ..

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

....

I am almost always in agreement with Strained and his perspective.  However, as it applies to this particular OP, I have to disagree.  In our last game, I was put in a position to remove our best player about two minutes before first pitch.  He definitely could have helped us win.  There was a bigger message that he needed to understand.  It was made clear to him that he would not be entered back into our lineup until he showed that he did understand even if that meant the rest of the season and even if that meant we lose every game along the way.

Our HS team's best player(D1 SS, yada, yada) decided to not leg out a ground ball early in the 1st inning of a game. Coach yanked him.

  That's what you call sending a message that was heard up and down the dugout, not just by the player in question.

 

Thanks guys I will try to clear things up. My son is 14 in the 9th grade playing JV and yes he starts most games but not all games. I do have an extensive stat history from game changer because all of his teams have used that app. The numbers in my comments were not really to brag or compare but only to show that my son is not just gifted or talented he is a hard worker and he rises to the top of the skill level he plays with. If he sees someone working hard, hitting hard, running fast or whatever he sets out to be that good and better. Thats his thing, I don't have to push him in practicing or working hard, that is fun to him. He likes chasing after and passing others, but he is still tired of after he does good he gets sat or has to start at the bottom. He is small but not the smallest by a few other guys, the smallest gets to play and not produce. Its not about moving to Varsity either, he knows he wouldn't play, they don't let him hit the field in JV. Just saying that some guys moved up and play now. We even had a PO prove himself with a few at bats and now he bats 4th or 5th and now plays outfield when not pitching. He is not very good at RF, but anyway. I am happy for him he hits well. When will my son prove he can play the field. To answer the other remarks. He has approached the coach. The coach told him he didnt like him because of his attitude last year. More on that later. In the same conversation he told him that this year his attitude was good and he could tell he was working hard and hustling, and would give him a chance to take someones position on the field. Never happened by the way. Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. Later on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. Coach did nothing. My son was on first and got the steal sign( he steals a lot of bases 5 last night) the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. Coach does nothing. My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together. Coach did not approve and said it was his job to do the coaching. This coach is 2 years out of HS if that matters to anyone. So the coach does not like him. My son was very angry from that game forward. He lets it go now and says nothing until summer ball. At the end of last year at his review he has told about his attitude and poor fielding. What fielding he hardly play the field ever. He was told he had the most potential as a hitter on the whole team. They told him to hit the gym. That summer he did. He asked about pitching and they responded they didn't know he pitched. Are you kidding me they wrote notes about him and used the radar gun. If they don't like his pitching fine, but don't lie or be incompetent enough to not know someone pitches please. They struggled to have enough pitchers all year with the new pitch count rule. Input? Am I crazy?

BBDAD98 - from what you wrote, it sounds like your kid has attitude issues and needs to learn to keep his mouth shut, especially for a Freshman playing JV.  Probably just maturity issues that he'll grow out of, but coaches these days have to deal with tons of players with entitlement issues and your son is not doing himself any favors by acting like that.

It sounds like your kid likes the game and wants to succeed. That is good because it takes a lot of time, work, bp, infield, bullpens, lifting, plyos, speedwork... etc  to get to be a good HS player. Right now the numbers you posted are decent for his age but not a definite starter on the Varsity level. My opinion would be to put the coaches decisions out of his mind right now and just work on getting better. Work hard on baseball everything. Use his opportunities to show he is making progress. If he is not progressing like he thinks he should reassess how he is doing it and keep working hard. He is going to have to get to a higher level to be a definite Varsity player. Until he gets to that level you are going to drive yourself crazy having the my kid is better he should have this or that mindset.

Guys i am not suggesting he could start or deserves Varsity. His fielding and batting suffer at the HS practice. No fielding hurts and in BP he comes home with bad habits and we go to his club cage and fix them. He had an altitude even though he was correct. He no longer says anything. Last year he was told to not cheer or chant, so he just high fives now. Thanks

Ok...

Coaches will side with the coaches, parents who are just parents and never really played the game will defend their kids til the day is long. Not one person has seen your kid play so its all relative. Let me tell you what is going on at our school. Private, Catholic with great athletes. Up until last year, never missed D1 playoffs.

Our coach is in his second year. Got his position after two years of being the pitching coach under the former coach who, by all means, was a baseball guy. Not a people person but knew baseball. College coaching technique and his players got to college and played right away. Because he was tough and his baseball technique did not translate to all players, a few parents were miffed. Guess who became buddies with those folks?  The assistants.  Yup, the pitching coach who is now the head coach.  Guess who started feeding the AD info about the head coach and all the parents complaints without naming parents names and adding his personal views on the program? You got it. Flash to two years later and one mistake by the Head Coach with a Phys Ed class (unrelated to baseball) and who is terminated? You guessed it, the head baseball coach. Who is hired? Coach Judas himself.

Coach Judas steps in and softens up the program just the like parents want. We have 5 D1 commits and several kids getting ready to commit. First thing out of his mouth after cuts were made? "Starting today, if you are part of this program, there will be no more outside lessons, nor more club/travel ball and all interaction with colleges will now go through my office!"  My son, the future Marc Cuban, and definitely NOT a pitcher and has never worked with this guy, is the first one to respond, "Well I am getting ready to commit in a few weeks, so I would think that I, and others in the same boat are exempt from that plan? And, I have plans to go to Jupiter with my Club team in October because as a 4-year player, that is the ultimate honor by the organization I am with." Judas looked at him with the most evil eyes and said, "We'll see about that." There was never a problem to my knowledge from then on. They got along fine. Son has been a leader as a Junior and the team has been fun.

The season started off well. Through 8 games, the team was 6-2 and 2-0 in league and going into the second game of a double-header on a Saturday. My son was hitting .525 and had 3 doubles and 2 triples on the season. The coach pulled my son over prior to game 2 and said, "I am going to sit you and play Jack the second game. Give you some rest. It will boost Jack's confidence for later just in case we need him down the road." My son thought that was a great idea. Because he loved his teammate he said, "100% behind that, Coach!"

Four games later my son has yet to see the field since that Saturday. The team is 0 and 4. They have scored 3 runs in 4 games and Jack has started every game since. Jack has 12 at bats. 10 Ks. He is hitting .000. A year ago my son would have been losing his mind, paranoid, biting his nails and sitting at the coach's door the next morning at 6:00 am. Now he doesn't see things that way anymore. You might say, "Sure, he is getting ready to commit so he is fine". The commitment thing didn't happen until he went through this change over last summer after being diagnosed with a learning disorder called APD.  But that is besides the point. My point is that he realized that things are just out of your control when someone in control is taking away something with no explanation. The way he looks at it is, "Man, I want to win, I see my boys hurting, Jack is struggling, and what is Coach trying to teach me/us here?"  Well, he says it like a teenager would say it and I don't help the matter by calling the coach an <insert expletive> moron but we just laugh. But, I would recommend for all baseball players to look into a technique called "mindfullness" as way relax prior to games and after (also for tests and relaxation in general). UCLA has implemented this in their program and they are moving up the D1 ranks slowly but surely this year! Schools across the country as well as business are adopting it.

I have read some of the great responses on here written by coaches. Man do I wish I could print them all out, take them and go pick a team right now. But there are a lot of former pro and collegiate ball players that have convinced themselves they are good coaches that do a terrible job at the high school level. Coaching teenagers is tough. Getting their respect takes time and you can lose it in an instant. It requires the ability to be cool and tough but subtle enough that the young men are still the focus, not the coach. In the case of my son's coach, there really isn't much hope. My wife and I used to enjoy going to his games to relax after a long day at work. My son has asked us to enjoy ourselves somewhere else. He said that other parents aren't coming anymore and he doesn't want us to be there alone. He will tell us when it was fun again. He thinks the coach will have to change sooner or later.

Today my son plays the #1 team in the nation. He wasn't worried about winning, losing or even playing. He was just stoked to be going to their stadium for one last game. As he was was leaving, he said" Dad, I wont forget to say hi to Mr. XX (father from the opposing team) he misses seeing you, you know!". I said, "He enjoys seeing you better. If you have time after the game, please get photos of you and your friends on the other team. We may not see them for a while." It reminded me that just because a bad coach, that no one else knows anything about, can bench for a game or two, he can never take the years of memories, fun times and friendships you have made along the way.  Just stay positive, work hard, good things will happen.  There is plenty of time.

Oh my!  Please reflect on how you might be influencing your son's behavior.  Be thankful he can hit so well.  At this point, that is his saving grace.  The best thing for both of you at this point is to erase all opinions about what anyone else is doing on or off the field.  Zero judgement of decisions, quality of play, quality of student, or quality of coach.  Realize you can only control what you can control.  Your effort and your attitude.  Focus 100% on your attitude and your effort AND do not concern yourself about anyone else.  

Do not talk to other parents about your opinion.  Do not talk to your son about your opinion of other players or coaches.  Only provide support and direction for attitude and effort.  

BBDAD98 posted:

Thanks guys I will try to clear things up. My son is 14 in the 9th grade playing JV and yes he starts most games but not all games. I do have an extensive stat history from game changer because all of his teams have used that app. The numbers in my comments were not really to brag or compare but only to show that my son is not just gifted or talented he is a hard worker and he rises to the top of the skill level he plays with. If he sees someone working hard, hitting hard, running fast or whatever he sets out to be that good and better. Thats his thing, I don't have to push him in practicing or working hard, that is fun to him. He likes chasing after and passing others, but he is still tired of after he does good he gets sat or has to start at the bottom.

OK, yes, you have cleared some things up and it sounds like your son has many admirable attributes.  And he also knows what the issues are as we suspected.  So, this could be an easier problem to solve.  He needs to realize that there will always be hurdles and obstacles.  It isn't always going to be an exact "OK, I'm doing better at this, now i should get everything I think I have coming to me".  There are lots of moving pieces.  The coach has 16 or however many other players hopefully trying to make the same necessary improvements and trying to earn the same additional playing time.  Also, this is JV, there are development elements involved.  Best players are going to sit sometimes or play out of position so that others can get their shot.  Coaches are not going to see each player through the rose colored glasses we parents see our own kids with.  He has to put in the work to be in position to take advantage of the opportunity when it presents itself, not when he thinks he deserves it.

He is small but not the smallest by a few other guys, the smallest gets to play and not produce. Its not about moving to Varsity either, he knows he wouldn't play, they don't let him hit the field in JV. Just saying that some guys moved up and play now. We even had a PO prove himself with a few at bats and now he bats 4th or 5th and now plays outfield when not pitching. He is not very good at RF, but anyway. I am happy for him he hits well. When will my son prove he can play the field.

The comparisons are OK to use as general reference but again, there are many moving parts that you as the parent will never fully see.  Again, his goal should be to work to the point of excelling and leaving no doubt.  It sounds like part of his "attitude problem" is that he is doing those comparisons and being disgruntled because those decisions aren't going his way.  Again, don't be the enabler to this mentality.  

To answer the other remarks. He has approached the coach. The coach told him he didnt like him because of his attitude last year. More on that later. In the same conversation he told him that this year his attitude was good and he could tell he was working hard and hustling, and would give him a chance to take someones position on the field. Never happened by the way.

Again, don't expect things to happen in perfect order... lots of other moving parts and other players hopefully striving for the same opportunity.  And the "take someones position" means that the someone would have to clearly demonstrate that they are willing to give that position up.

Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. Later on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. Coach did nothing. My son was on first and got the steal sign( he steals a lot of bases 5 last night) the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. Coach does nothing. My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together. Coach did not approve and said it was his job to do the coaching. This coach is 2 years out of HS if that matters to anyone. So the coach does not like him. My son was very angry from that game forward.

Look, sure it can be a factor that the coach is 2 years out of HS.  But it is about perspective and expectations.  A coach that played V in HS and is two years beyond will certainly have some limitations but will also certainly know more than a 14 y.o. kid in JV in most areas.  Son should be latching on to all the positives this coach brings.  Every coach will have positives and negatives.  Which does son fixate on and why?  There are also a lot of advantages to having a young guy and it is not uncommon at sub-varsity levels.  To be honest, I wouldn't be happy with your kid either.  It's great that he recognizes game situations and wishes for the team to improve and do the right thing.  But, in some of those situations, he is also to blame (76 mph tops throwdown isn't helping the pitcher any so he should work on improving himself).  In other situations, it probably isn't his place to say and/or the coach is already very aware.  In other situations, there may be other reasons.  For example, while I am very aware that most programs have their hitters sacrifice themselves on a steal, we do not do that in our program.  We let our hitters hit when we steal... so nothing for the runner to be mad at if there is a double play or foul ball.  Furthermore, if he is giving himself up the traditional way, he should be swinging late at that pitch to protect the runner, not taking it.  And if he is using that as his excuse for what happens in his AB after that, I am all over him.  All this telling the coach to have the other players do better... NOOOOO!!!  SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE YOUR TEAMMATES.  DON'T THROW THEM UNDER THE BUS !!!!  Then, when your kid subsequently shows he is angry at his teammates and his coach while playing, that is a big attitude issue, no matter how warranted the reason.

He lets it go now and says nothing until summer ball. At the end of last year at his review he has told about his attitude and poor fielding. What fielding he hardly play the field ever.

Are you telling me he doesn't get ample defensive reps in practice?  This is where many of the position decisions are made.  Do you see all these practice reps that the coach/es see?  (I hope not)

He was told he had the most potential as a hitter on the whole team. They told him to hit the gym. That summer he did. He asked about pitching and they responded they didn't know he pitched. Are you kidding me they wrote notes about him and used the radar gun. If they don't like his pitching fine, but don't lie or be incompetent enough to not know someone pitches please.

By the time they reach HS, most kids are or have been pitchers.  There is nothing you have described that would have him standing out significantly from others to make the coaches specifically recall him as a pitcher even if they gunned him.  We time all of our runners on occasion.  I can identify those that stood out either good or bad but probably won't recall much about those in the middle.  It sounds like more and more opportunities are coming his way but both you and him are taking a skeptical, negative perspective, which is exactly what coaches don't like.

Input? Am I crazy?

Beyond that, no, you are not crazy.  You and your son are dealing with the typical issues that come up as kids start to head further into becoming young adults.  None of us handle it perfectly.  Much of the feedback you will get here is an effort to help others avoid the same mistakes we made before you.

 

Last edited by cabbagedad

Attitude problems?  Yes.

"my son was the backup catcher .... He could not throw anyone out .... so he asked the coach if the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster...."

"on more than one occasions he would be batting and the runner would not steal when given the sign so he would take a first pitch strike for no reason. So he asked the coach to talk to them. "

"My son was on first and got the steal sign... the batter hits the ball foul or line drives into a dp. My son was mad. "

"My son was catching, throws down to 2nd no one was there, he yells at the middle guys to talk and get it together." 

"My son was very angry from that game forward."

To the last few comments thanks guys i like the other point of view, even If we don't agree. I know you would need to be in my sons and coaches shoes to fully see where something is wrong. During travel ball the catcher runs the infield and talks to the middle guys, who has the bag, talks to the pitcher about how to get the next guy out. So it did not seem uncommon. My sons arm speed is what it is. Is it great? no. Was his velo faster than others that catch, pitch, ss, and centerfield? Yes some. He was still able to throw kids out in travel on the same size fields 60-90. None of our catchers could throw anyone out at 2nd. My son was trying to make an adjustment. Did he end up with an attitude? Yes. Did he start with one? No? Was his attitude not wise? No it wasn't. He trys to help the pitchers and batters. They ask him for advice. They have not gone to other professional coaches so they have no clue what other methods or tips there are. They ask him how does he hit so hard. He uses his hips. My son did not earn his 2nd batting spot until the starting SS who went up to Varsity last week ask the coach on 3 different occasions in front of the dugout to please let my son have his spot sense he was hitting .125 and my son was hitting .500. The coach makes the team aware of these stats to the players. And has anounced that my son was leading the offense. I guess what I'm saying is HS Baseball sucks for my son and some others. Even our star players that play all the time have told their parents from the dugout that the coach is messing up. Please believe me my son has worked on his attitude and does not say those things to me in a ugly way, but the situation is draining him. And I know most people are thinking poor pitiful brat. He is not a bad kid and is mature for his age. He does not hang around the goofing off players only the ones who are trying to improve and not worried about making sniper rifles out of tape, bats, and Gatorade cups. Can we ever come together and say that an adult has a bad attitude and maybe wrong. I fit the bill sometimes how about you guys? I'm not always right, sometimes my kids are. My son studies baseball and he teaches me things and has deep conversations with his none HS coaches. Right now he can't wait to be done. He opted out of playing travel fall ball last year and did Soccer with his classmates on a select team. He had a blast and they won a championship. He had never played before and got a lot of playing time for his speed and he scored a handful of goals. It got his mind off of HS baseball. But I know he loves Baseball more and he say the same. Thanks

Some mentioned that nothing that i have mention before made my son stand out as a good pitcher. Fair enough. He had the fourth fastest velo on the freshman team last year. They told him that. I get thats not enough. The other kids were already 5'11"- 6'2" and he was 5'7" and he will never be 6 foot most likely. What he was taught by his pitching coach what seems to be good mechanics that he can repeat and pound the strike zone with a 4 seam, 2 seam, nasty changeup and a slider still improving on. We have 2 strong pitchers that get good results but throw a lot of pitches, 70 in 3 innings, and the other 3 can't find the strike zone and have walked 10 in 10 innings. When my son pitches in the scrimmages he has 3 up 3 down and 3-9 pitch innings against the varsity now and JV last year. Is he elite? No. Does he throw heat past you? No. Does he strike you out or make you hit ground balls middle to left side? Yes. Will he have a pitching career? Never, unless he can find 90+. He will get stronger, i just don't see 90 in his future. But I tell you what it sure would be fun for him to pitch now while he has something to give to pitching. He most likely want have the tools to go far after these last two years. Just saying.

BBDAD98 posted:

Last year my son was the backup catcher for a few games. He could not throw anyone out like he had been in travel ball so he asked the coach he the pitchers could deliver the pitch faster (not such a slow high leg lift) coach just looked at him. 

I'll say more later, but frankly this "killed" your son't chances.  If you're a catcher, it's your fault (even if it isn't).  Protect your pitchers.  Period.  End.  

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

BBDAD98 posted:

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

I'm not sure of your tone here, so I will reserve most of my comments until I reread it a few more times.

However, I can tell you that it's a bad idea to hang around practice. Really bad. If a parent is watching consistently, a few thoughts are going to go through a coach's mind, and none of them are good.

BBDAD98 posted:

Your right as a coach I worry about my pitches feelings over getting the runners out. SMH. Serously you are right, everything was his fault. The curve balls that went behind the batters back to the back stop, totally his fault. His catching coach at the club even told him it would be before the season started. My son was not ready for that much blame. Someone mentioned if my son took fielding practice. Last year i went to most practices sence they were an hour and a half and it was 30 minutes home. Last year he stood next to the coach and gave him balls as he hit them. He went to the OF once, no lie got one fly ball and dropped it, never a 2nd chance. He got 3 ground balls at SS and did a good job. They never practiced catchers, ever. The pitchers never threw a bullpen last year. We had 19 kids on the team, a couple POs and some kids were so bad they never played at all once they had a shot, but you could see at practice and tryouts they didn't have it. This year's fielding practice is much improved. He gets 5 ground balls in outfield and 5 fly balls as well. He has done well sense I have been hitting him fly balls on all of his off days, so that he stays good so he will not drop another in front of the coach.

You are right.  The HS is the problem.  I have never heard such horrible practices.  Have you considered transferring.  This program will cripple your son's ability and I can't believe the coaches haven't realized what they have.  I am sure the current center fielder is the son of a deep wallet that bought his way on to the field.  Your son will never get a fair shot.  Get out while you can....  

This is real. Sorry just being a little funny about the pitchers feelings, but lets coach the situation. Is it the catcher, then coach him, is it the pitcher then coach him. Practice was that bad. It has improved this year as stated. I lot of parents hang out for practice. Mainly your booster club, and officers of the dugout club parents. I did hang out the first year but got sick of it so I stay away this year. Last year it was so bad with parents gossiping they sent out an email to stop. I was not involved. I didn't know those parents. We just moved to town. Our Varsity coach later resigned due to issues with money. Its not about CF guys. Just trying to earn a shot at the field and enjoying playing. Thanks for the input and other view points. I can totally see the coach thinking the way you guys are thinking. They are true statements. Thanks

BBdad....I just spent 15 minutes reading this bunch of garbage (sorry, but that's how it comes off)....and I have two thoughts....again, sorry for being blunt, but someone has to say it.

1) I feel sorry for you and your son......you're delusional and probably ruining any chance he ever has to be a good baseball player....................or.................

2) You're making this up just to have some fun because it's freezing in most of the country and your game got cancelled today.

Unfortunately I'm leaning toward #1.  Trust me....I know a little about this.....watch this....go to 7 minutes in....

https://tornadomovies.to/serie...rGifSP-watching.html

The guy is from my hometown...I coached his kid in 6th and 7th grade (he was a year younger than my son and we brought him up to play with the older kids).   The guy never gave me any crap because I liked his kid and really had hopes that he would help our HS team.  Also, he knew I had some connections with good travel teams and hoped to get his kids into one of the better programs.    This video is a little overboard...even for him, but EVERYONE else in our town thought it was EXACTLY how this guy is.  It's a little crazy...and I can tell some of it was staged...but not nearly as much as you'd think. 

The kid had a lot of potential...but if I didn't know better, I'd think that his dad and BBdad are the same guy....he had the exact same thoughts toward coaches as BBdad does.  Guess what, the kid went backwards from 8th grade when I coached him until he got thru HS.  The dad wouldn't let the kid do anything the HS coach said...and he ended up actually being a below average HS player....when as a 6th grader, the kid was as good as anyone in our area.

BBdad....sorry for coming off harsh, but your son deserves better....if he goes into practices/games with the attitude you have, he'll be lucky to play next year...let alone be on varsity.  One last thing....you said "I have all of his stats from Gamechanger".....well, this guy brought a scorebook to games when his son was in 4th-8th grades...not so he could keep track of his son's stats...he kept track of all of the OTHER kids... so he had "proof" when he wanted to argue with coaches about why his son should be playing more.  Take that however you want to

Last edited by Buckeye 2015

Thank you for your input sincerely. None of this is made up. I am not delusional, sorry. I know that would make you feel better. I found it hard to believe it was all happening as well. This is the best Baseball school around with a good academic record. People move here and find other loop holes just to come to this school. We have over 100 kids tryout for 55 spots. The other near by schools are lucky to fill 2 teams, we have 3. The talent here is so much better than the other 2 that we nearly run rule them every time we play. Those schools are playing at a rec level were as this team might be AA travel. With of course a mixture of very talented will play college to why did that person make the team. I have not spoken to the coach because it would never end well. Even if I got the coach to play him, my son might have a off day and then the coach would have a good reason. Or he would hold a gruge and never play him for spite. Is my son a super star? No. But he is out hitting their studs that THEY compare him to. He can make the throw from RF to 3rd or home on a line and the others do not. Their are tools to baseball that they look for and my son does a good job of using them. He was always the smaller kid on teams fighting for playing time. What he did have and still has is speed and a great work ethic. He worked on his mechanics in throwing, hitting, and cathing to make up the size disadvantage. It turned into him hitting as many homeruns as the big kids with the jacked up swings and throwing as hard as the kids hurting their arm throwing the same speed. He ended up being one of the biggest kids his 11u and 12u season because of a growth spurt. He is now small again and just as capable of out playing the larger guys who have no training. He is ready to play now. Those guys should wait and practice hard. My son has worked hard and doesn't want to wait while the other guys get better or not. Does that make sense? He had to wait and get better now its the opposite. I know life is not fair, work harder and show the coach without a doubt and if he still don't play you then you learned a life leason that sometimes your boss sucks. I have repeated these things, but it does not make it easier to swallow for him or me. He has risen above little playing time before. Being the best on the team and never played more than half of the innings he move to the cross town rival travel team and earn a spot in RF batting leadoff after the first tournament. Played amazing all year and help beat his old team. His old coach asked him to come back after his season and he did and started CF batting leadoff the whole next year if he wasn't pitching or catching. Why did it take all that to see that you should play someone? I know lifes not fair, work hard, see it all works out in the end yada yada. Thanks again for your opinions. I like venting it makes me feel better.

Wait....your last post didn't help....at all.   You are now saying your son is at "one of the best baseball schools around".....and you're still complaining that he's playing JV as a freshman?   Here in Ohio....at the "best baseball school around"....the best of the best freshmen.....play on the freshmen team....and are happy to do so.  I guess a couple things from your first post.  At my son's HS...that isn't nearly the "best baseball school around"....72 mph on the mound doesn't cut it...even in JV.  My son was throwing that hard in 7th grade....when he was 5' and 100 lbs.  He was mid-upper 70's as a freshman...and pitched on JV (no freshman team).  You said yourself that "he can't throw kids out".  So if he isn't throwing fast enough to pitch and can't play catcher, I guess at some point maybe you should just be HAPPY that he's playing JV at all.    I'm not going to go any further.  You've gotten a lot of replies here....from a lot of guys who have been thru it....my son is a D1 pitcher now.....and your last post makes it seem like we have just completely wasted our time.  Stop talking about 11U & 12U....those years are completely meaningless.  Stop talking about travel ball....it's meaningless too.  All that matters is what your HS coach thinks, sees and hears.   He is in charge....everyone here at some point has thought their kid was getting a raw deal from a coach....heck, I thought that when my son was a freshman in college.   Your son is 14 year old HS freshman.....you're going to give yourself a heart attack if you keep going the way you are.

RJM posted:

From his profile ...

“I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 different sports”

Doesn’t sound like a coach to me in his posts. We’re getting spoofed.

Lol, I'm kind of thinking the same thing.  A couple things I missed....he's talking about teams being rec ball and some AA.  We don't have USSSA here in Ohio anymore....but when we did, the teams playing AA were local teams who couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag lol.  He says "this team may be AA travel".  I'm not sure how you say "one of the best baseball schools around" then say the same team is like a AA travel team??   Either way, I'm done with this....I'm feeling like we're being set up for some kind of reality show 

Last edited by Buckeye 2015

Look he was happy to make JV. With coach not liking him he was ready for freshman team. No problem. He made the freshman team last year was happy, until the problems with the coaches sending up the wrong kids to JV and bringing them back down and taking more playing time from him. He sees and some others see that he is at those kids level. These are his team mates saying you'll be on JV or Varsity soon. The kids that get the playing time and don't do well see that. They want to play with him and not see him on the bench or just hitting. One was willing to trade spots in the line-up. They played two POs in the outfield and not him. I was happy that the POs were able to play, poor guys can't hit, but they got their chance to bat also. The travel ball stuff is just the back story of how he made the HS team sorry. He plays well in HS, I am very proud of what he has accomplished this season and last. Yes he has an average arm but we have very few good arms and a lot of average or below arms on the team. I didn't say we are a baseball powerhouse that has won championships. So we dont have a bunch of flame throwers. We had 3 freshman throwing as hard or harder than the varsity players. People were seriously worried that freshmen players would start over there kid on varsity. But guess what arm strength isn't eveything, you got to hit the strike zone and bat the ball. They weren't ready for that so they move back down. Again my son wants to play, doesn't matter if its freshman or JV he wasnts to be the best on whatever team he is own and he wants to play in the field. If they are handing out rewards for good playing of course he wants that to. Who wouldn't? Instead you watch the coach make a decision that you don't agree with and then watch the coach have to admit he was wrong and drop them back down. They have done this to the same 3 kids two years in a row. Whats the definition of insanity?

Look, your kid has an attitude problem, showed up his coach, and is now paying the price.  If I was his Coach he'd never even play this season.  He needs to grow up.  It doesn't matter if he's the next Mickey Mantle, he shouldn't have pointed fingers at his teammates and showed up his coach.  Now he's going to have to wait longer to play more.  From what you've told us, he deserves to wait more.  

We have the weakest schedule in our region. We are good compared to our suroundings. Yes AA travel is not very good. My son and 2 of his team mates played major ball in a different town that has more talent. They were not on the same teams, but the teams were good. This town does not travel. Maybe one kid here are there. We moved to this town. We were in a much better baseball town. This town does not even have a baseball batting cage or club facility. Nothing wrong with that they just stick to rec and allstar ball.

I'm so confused....watching basketball and paying attention to this is giving me a migraine.   How can you be "one of the best baseball schools around"....where kids move there to play baseball....but "we're not a baseball powerhouse".   You are in GA.....my son played in the 14U WWBA at East Cobb.  We were a pretty good team from "up north"....14U is heading into freshman year.... so the same level as your son is now.  We thought we were good....but we showed up in GA and got destroyed.   We weren't playing East Cobb teams....or the Roadrunners, we were playing teams that by GA standards were "average".  Your "average" down there is very, very good.  Those same "average" 14U travel kids are all fighting for spots on HS teams the following spring.....with kids who played for East Cobb or the Roadrunners or other top level 14U teams.  Those are the kids that make Varsity as freshmen.   Did your son play for East Cobb?   Did he play on a travel team in tourneys that played at that level?   Did his team play in the WWBA?   If so how did he hit against the pitching he saw there?     If he's not playing summer  on teams that are that level, to think that he steps into a GA HS and makes varsity as a freshman is kinda crazy in my mind.  

Buckeye 2015 posted:
RJM posted:

From his profile ...

“I have been coaching for 11 years, 4 different sports”

Doesn’t sound like a coach to me in his posts. We’re getting spoofed.

Lol, I'm kind of thinking the same thing.  A couple things I missed....he's talking about teams being rec ball and some AA.  We don't have USSSA here in Ohio anymore....but when we did, the teams playing AA were local teams who couldn't hit their way out of a paper bag lol.  He says "this team may be AA travel".  I'm not sure how you say "one of the best baseball schools around" then say the same team is like a AA travel team??   Either way, I'm done with this....I'm feeling like we're being set up for some kind of reality show 

We’re going to end up on Lavar Ball’s reality show.

3and2fastball, fair enough your ego would be hurt so you wouldn't field the best 9. I hear ya. The other kids are talking behind your back but someone has the guts to ask hey why don't we do this or that and their the problem. Fair enough, at least you admit to it. I like your honesty. I can handle honesty. This coach has been dishonest and most people can't and want see it.

BBDAD98 posted:

3and2fastball, fair enough your ego would be hurt so you wouldn't field the best 9. I hear ya. The other kids are talking behind your back but someone has the guts to ask hey why don't we do this or that and their the problem. Fair enough, at least you admit to it. I like your honesty. I can handle honesty. This coach has been dishonest and most people can't and want see it.

The freshman and JV teams are about molding players for varsity. No one outside the players and their parents care if the freshman or JV teams wins or loses.  Player development is part of the molding. So is having the right attitude. I’m with 3and2.

My son was the best player on the JV team when he was a freshman. Two other kids were promoted to varsity over my son. My son knew why. He never made the mistake again. 

The decision may have prevented a 6-16 varsity team from winning a game or two more. But the lesson learned helped him be a valuable player on a 15-7 varsity team the following year and a team leader the next two years.

Last edited by RJM

Buckeye i am trying to tell you these freshman and some sophomore guys my son plays with would not make the major travel teams. They are rec allstar players except for the few that did travel from a different town. I am not stating that my son should be on varsity, i am stating how crazy it is to move them up and not take him as well. None should be going up. They are not ready. If they happen to see a reason to not play my son on JV then he said he would rather be on freshman instead of dealing with this BS. The last time he played at east cobb we played 4 east cobb teams and lost to the titans and beat the other 3 last year. When he was 13. He had 9 AB with four hits, 1 single, 1 double, and 2 hr batting leadoff, 5 rbi, 3 runs, 2 walks, 2 ks, and 2 stolen bases. We beat the other teams pretty easy and lost to the titans by 1 point extra innings. He has committed to a team that invited him to play up at the 15u level, but looking at their schedule they will play in 16u wood bat tournaments and will travel as far as Lakeland FL. He tried out and made an Eastcobb 14u which would have been extremely hard for us to travel that far but they were considered their 2nd best team eastcobb offered and after the best team and 2nd team lost some players they reorganized and he was out. Thats what I was told. It all sounded strange but he moved on and made two other major teams and when he was choosing which one the 15u team coach slash owner called. My son has wanted to play for him. So he looks forward to earning that spot were he knows the talent is good and he will need to bring his A game. We have talked about this and he accepts the challenge to play with a good team. I love it that you guys don't believe me. I can't make this stuff up. Whether you like me or not or think my kid can play doesn't matter to me, because this is for real.

It has nothing to do with Coach's ego.  A coach needs the players to show respect to each other and to the coach, otherwise everything falls apart.  

To raise a kid to believe that they are entitled to break that very basic protocol of respecting a coach and not throwing their teammates under the bus is just flat out bad parenting, and as already mentioned by someone else, could jeopardize their career.

Yes, I am judging you.

Last edited by 3and2Fastball

Sorry. But it is called holding someone accountable. He did not attack anyone. He wanted to know about the signs and who had the bag and high long leg lifts as a pitcher and so forth. He was on more than one team that held each other accountable. It was not mean it was do your job, if you don't know how someone will help you. He was told not to yell anything from behind the plate anymore. Guess what all of the catchers do this year, hold each other accountable and yell stuff. He was told to stop cheering, so he did, this year coach wants everyone in the game cheering. This year someone missed a sign and stole and got out. They ran poles for their error. So it is about ego the coach knew he was right. My son has had many coaches from Soccer, football, track, baseball, and basketball and i have heard many praise him for his leadership and super competitiveness. Football coaches have loved the way he leads as QB and middle line backer in middle school. I get it he is not for everyone, fine don't hold him down and make him miserable. He is a good kid, and I try to help him navigate his teenage testosterone anger and he does good. Is social security an entitlement or is it some thing you worked for? He is not entitled he wants to earn it at a reasonable price. He just wants to hit and play the field. Coach said if you hit you can play. Some batting .100 still starting. He is not looking to be on any team that doesn't want him to play. If he has to move down he would. The coaches send mix signals about what it takes to get playing time or move up. Thats what it boils down to. They don't like some kids for differnent reasons. Some kids can improve, my son will most likely not improve the coach liking him. You can't make someone like you. You just can't.

StrainedOblique posted:

The simple answer to the playing time riddle is that Coaches play kids that they believe can help them win. Period. This applies not only at the HS level but also college .

That being said , if a kid in fact believes he can help his team win and the Coach sees it differently , the player ( never the parent ) needs to speak to the coach . He needs to be direct and ask the Coach what it's gonna take for him to play or move up to Varsity in this case. At this point most coaches are pretty straight forward in explaining to a player what he needs to do or what the coach needs from him to advance .

It's pretty simple. But most HS kids are afraid to approach the coach. That is sort of a developmental thing at that age. But if he's truly unhappy or unclear about his role or future he needs to start there.

Don't let your son or yourself get caught up in the age old excuse of 'The Coach just doesn't like me' . That is a mistake and will just cloud your judgment . Because it's irrelevant. Remember , HS Coaches play the kids that can help them win. Period. They have 16-21 guys on Varsity , of those 16-21 guys , sure there may be a couple kids he likes personally more than others and occasionally a dislike and more often than not indifference towards some players, but it will rarely change how he makes out his line up card.

A bad student, bad attitude jerk that touches 88-90 mph will pitch at the HS level regardless of the coaches personal opinion of him. Don't forget that.

Have your son talk to the coach about what it's gonna take to advance in the program. After the meeting sit down with your son and put together a plan to accomplish those goals. Then have him go back to the coach once your son has improved in those areas and Hold the coach to his word.

Strained, I might have to respectfully disagree on the jerk statement. A very talented kid who was on Varsity last year as a Freshman didn’t make our Varsity team this year because he didn’t show up for early morning workouts and told everyone he didn’t have to because he was their best (position). The coach didn’t buy it. He’s sitting on the sophomore team. Not all coaches will tolerate jerkiness.

Wow so much, so little time.  Add me to the group that thinks this is fake.  But let's play along.  I am generally very hard on coaches -- I expect the best from them.  And I certainly see issues here.  In fact, in many ways the OP could be describing my kid's HS team -- pitchers slow to the plate, bad mechanics, low baseball IQ, little accountability.  In our case, much was due to being severely understaffed.  

But the kid in question sounds the a real "treat."  And the fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.  It's not the kid's job to hold anyone accountable but himself.  It's about picking up your teammates and covering for their mistakes.  Pitcher gives up a walk -- that's ok, we'll turn two.  SS boots a ball -- we'll get the next one.  Pitcher throws WP that gets to the backstop -- catcher stands up and let's everyone know that "on me."  Kid strikes out with bases loaded -- no problem, next kid is going to hit a double.  Little Johnny has to run poles because he didn't get the bunt down -- we all run poles.  You just booted your 4th ball of the game -- SS comes over and gives you a hug. 

Last edited by Golfman25
CaCO3Girl posted:
TPM posted:

Freshman, 2 seam, 4 seam, changeup and a SLIDER.

HMMMM...You guys got trolled on. 

Not agreeing with the poster but my son threw a slider at 14.  His arm slot didn’t allow for a curve, only a slider.

Most younger players throw whats called a slurve. Combo of a curve and a slider. Most pitchers throw either or. But if someone is teaching a young HS player a true slider, the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation.

 

BBDAD98 posted:

Whats so hard about a slider? Curve grip fastball arm motion. Look up Lance Wheeler. See which pitch Jesus wants you to throw. Curve or Slider? The video might be locked. But it explains how to pick and how to throw it. We have 2 leftys on JV throwing sliders now.

Once again, if someone is teaching a developing teen a slider the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation. You know it took son almost 2 years to throw a true slider and that was in pro ball. His off speed in HS was his 2 seamer and change up, which you claim was both used. Used to be the go to pitch in college, one after another but things have changed its not a good pitch.

Are you a pitching coach. If so what are your credentials?

Chico Escuela posted:

I don't think anybody has pitching-related injuries completely figured out, but I do think ASMI and Dr. Andrews are as good anybody (and better than most).  And they definitely say sliders aren't for younger kids: 

 http://www.andrewsinstitute.co...Prevention/Baseball/

http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/risk-factors/

Do folks here have a different take?

My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.

As to different takes, yup.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html

http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention

Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave.  My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.

Last edited by CaCO3Girl
CaCO3Girl posted:

My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.

As to different takes, yup.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html

http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention

Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave.  My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.

I have seen those links before, but thanks.  They deal with curve balls though, not sliders.  ASMI says kids can learn curves earlier; sliders should come later.

TPM posted:
BBDAD98 posted:

Whats so hard about a slider? Curve grip fastball arm motion. Look up Lance Wheeler. See which pitch Jesus wants you to throw. Curve or Slider? The video might be locked. But it explains how to pick and how to throw it. We have 2 leftys on JV throwing sliders now.

Once again, if someone is teaching a developing teen a slider the parent needs to reevaluate their sons situation. You know it took son almost 2 years to throw a true slider and that was in pro ball. His off speed in HS was his 2 seamer and change up, which you claim was both used. Used to be the go to pitch in college, one after another but things have changed its not a good pitch.

Are you a pitching coach. If so what are your credentials?

I taught my pitchers to throw a cut fastball instead of the slider.  I just was uncomfortable teaching a "real slider" and I have coached for a few years.  

BBDAD98, I'll play along.  You say your son is a freshman and yet, you are complaining about playing time.  Wow.  Instead of that, consistent support would go a lot further in his development.  Complaining about a coach and or supporting his complaints about a coach will serve no positive purpose.  I'll tell you about a player I once  coached.  This was supposed to be our next superstar.  How do I know that?  Dad did gave his best effort to tell me even though I told him I didn't want to talk to him.  Like you, he knew ever stat.  He played absolutely terrible competition.  When put up against those who actually did play tough competition, he was in the lower tier.  Still, he was a "super star."  When I attempted to coach him, he has his own expert.  So, he gave the complimentary nod and did what he wanted.  Of course it irritated me.  Of course, he started out 0-18.  So, the fault was ........... mine according to dad.  Needless to say, he never got a chance to go 0 - 19.  There is a small lesson in that story if you want to glean it.  

CoachB25, thanks for your reply.  My freshman on varsity was starting to complain about hitting 9th.  Pretty much all seniors on his team except for him.  HS baseball much more complicated than travel ball.  After the last game, he was very frustrated, so we hit in the cage for over an hour.  Talked about hitting more and complaining less.  I am fairly new here, but am enjoying all of your opinions so far, and will try to contribute from what I see here in Southern California HS and travel ball.

billsfanla posted:

CoachB25, thanks for your reply.  My freshman on varsity was starting to complain about hitting 9th.  Pretty much all seniors on his team except for him.  HS baseball much more complicated than travel ball.  After the last game, he was very frustrated, so we hit in the cage for over an hour.  Talked about hitting more and complaining less.  I am fairly new here, but am enjoying all of your opinions so far, and will try to contribute from what I see here in Southern California HS and travel ball.

It’s funny looking back after it’s all done and worked out (son is turning 25) the little things are forgotten until someone posts something that sparks a memory. 

My son was the only opening day soph starter in a large high school. He batted last. He finished second on the team in hitting and stolen bases. But he never moved out of the nine hole. I just figured it was because he was the young player. After the last game of a successful season (team went from 6-16 to 15-7) the coach told him he expected him to lead and star starting next year. 

If a player does the right things and dad minds his own business it all works out.

Last edited by RJM
baseballhs posted:

What about when the coach decides that your sophomore is a PO even though he doesn't want to be  and doesn't need to be?  I could maybe live with it if he still let him take reps but he won't even let him do that.  He is not a PO for summer but if he never gets reps during the year he won't be ready.  Trying to be respectful but its getting tough.

Reps are too limited in HS. That's stuff he'll need to do on his own to keep sharp. 

Son is a  talented defensive player who can play any position but C. In his pre season meeting with the HC, he is asked his least favorite position. Son says, " I'll play anywhere, coach." Coach asks again. "Wherever you want me to play, coach." Coach demands to know where he really would prefer not to play. Son says LF.

First game of the season, guess where he is playing. 

 

baseballhs posted:

What about when the coach decides that your sophomore is a PO even though he doesn't want to be  and doesn't need to be?  I could maybe live with it if he still let him take reps but he won't even let him do that.  He is not a PO for summer but if he never gets reps during the year he won't be ready.  Trying to be respectful but its getting tough.

had the same thing happen except the HS coach was also his TB coach as well...moved TB team winter of Junior year...didn't see the field at all Junior year in high school (only 3 ABs)...on fire during summer and down at lakepoint and only pitched one inning all summer...committed to D3 as an OF...starting OF for HS this year. 

Do I think the HS coach didn't start him as a position player because he thought my son was a PO?...yes.  Does it matter?...hell no. 

Coach has changed tunes this year and has used him more than once in reference to him not losing sight of his goal and never giving up. 

Last edited by phillyinNJ
57special posted:

Son is a  talented defensive player who can play any position but C. In his pre season meeting with the HC, he is asked his least favorite position. Son says, " I'll play anywhere, coach." Coach asks again. "Wherever you want me to play, coach." Coach demands to know where he really would prefer not to play. Son says LF.

First game of the season, guess where he is playing. 

 

When push came to shove, my kid said the bump. He makes Ricky Vaughn look like Maddux, so after 1/3, he was done.

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

I like the discussion guys. Again I have not talked to the coach. My son is discouraged at this point in time and has not been a bad team mate. The coach has not told my son this year that he has a problem. My son played good last year when given the chance and lead the team in offense, which is what he did most of the time DH in the 4 hole. My son is doing good this year in spite of the frustration he is feeling. Side note last year we had a CF that started and batted every game and he was at the top also. This year he hasn't started but is now out performing the others in hits and has fewer at bats. His mom has been very vocal from the stands. She works for the county and says the coach does not like her and is taking it out on her son. I don't know what the issue is with her and him, but she is not shy about her opinion of him. We have 4 10th graders on JV with the other 11 being freshmen. I don't think they have seen that many freshman taking this many spots on JV before. Which is a good problem but it seems unorganized on how they seem to pick who plays. Our 9th grade team has 14 8th graders and 1 freshman who played great last year but he was injured at first and they needed a catcher. Update my son played LF a little last game and he had a sliding catch and a game saving throw to home to keep the tieing run at 3rd. The throw was an error from the catcher that ended up in LF. The kid was fast and halfway home when my son threw a strike and the runner made it back to 3rd in a run down. It was a very exciting game.

baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

Ya'll are being played.  This guys story has changed so many times.  He is just messing with ya'll.  How about let's close this down.   He does talk a good game and his story in different parts is realistic for so many kids I have been around.  Kids and parents think they can act up and a coach will just forgive and forget. 

PitchingFan posted:

Ya'll are being played.  This guys story has changed so many times.  He is just messing with ya'll.  How about let's close this down.   He does talk a good game and his story in different parts is realistic for so many kids I have been around.  Kids and parents think they can act up and a coach will just forgive and forget. 

You may be right, but if you are right and he's trolling,  he's the one wasting his precious time writing reams of this stuff, so the joke's on him.

baseballhs posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:
baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

He doesn't have 5.  He just made a decision.  My son was ranked 3 in the state  26 nationally on PG for the position he can't even take reps at.  It is definitely in the life isn't fair category.

His travel coach much love him, so at least he has that

Coaches have their reasons for holding back JV/Fr players and/or bringing up inferior players to V, but if your son flat out asked the coach, I feel the coach should've told him straight up what the deal was.  Players don't know what coaches expect from them until they're told what it is.  If you can't do what your coach tells you, then you can go have a seat on the bench.  

BBDAD98 posted:

Only, no. Oldest yes. Moved for work. County has several schools this one has the best academics and happens to have the best baseball. Other schools excel at football, basketball, track and so forth. Academics and safety were our top priorities. We moved last year he has played for this school twice now.

OK, thanks.  That gives added perspective.  

So, here's my last contribution...

One of your comments was that you came to vent and that is totally fine... in fact a good place to vent.  You've had pretty thick skin through some of the criticism here and seem to have taken heart to some of the points.   But if you REALLY want the situation to improve... (and I'm not just talking about on the baseball field)...

Based on some of your replies and the timing of them, IMO, you are missing a few of the most important points.  It is particularly difficult with our first kid when it comes to letting go of some things.  I suggest you go back and read through the thread again and really try to pick up on the consistent messages.   This is not an issue of how good your son is or isn't.  It is not an issue of how good his coaches are or aren't.  It's about perspective.

Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it.   That's the very short version in a cliche quote.  Protecting and defending our kids with every negative thing that happens to them can be a natural reaction.  It isn't doing them any good.  

Last edited by cabbagedad

"Coach not going to name names or single anybody out but there are some guys in the lineup that are really struggling. I'm not asking for a spot in the lineup, just some more opportunities. What do I need to do to get more opportunities?"

IMO - I'd skip this one and let the other questions suffice.  If coach then asks "who", are you going to name names?  Maybe tell him it rhymes with "Hobby" or "Silly" and avoid calling out your teammates.  I think the first three questions are more than adequate to get your position across and start the conversation.  Maybe just drop the struggling comment and go with the rest.

Weird thread.  I vote trolling on the OP.

Nicks mom posted:
Is there anything I can do as a parent?

Short answer - No. 

As others have indicated it's up to your son to prove or show his coach he would be invaluable to be in the line up and on the field.   Practice hard and play hard when he gets a chance that the coach has no choice but to put him in the lineup and on the field.  It's not just the performance in games, but what he does in practice as well.

Like it or not, it is the coach's team to run, not the parents.

Cabbagedad, thanks for the sincere comments. I am a calm person. My son is also like me with an extra boost of hormones. He is what i think a typical first born and a rule follower as I was and my wife. I get that it is the coaches team, and I hope he finds employment else where. He is very immature and inexperience. He coached against my old high school budy one game. My buddy had no clue about him, i had not spoken to him in 10 years or more. My friend called me the next day and asked why was that coach such a jerk, and he said that kids these days will not respond to his style of coaching. My friend was a travel ball coach before a HS coach and that may have something to do with it. You need experience and this coach has none. Sorry. To make things worse after the bad year my son had last year this coach would not let it go. How do i know? We had a fund raiser game in which the JV and Varsity get picked by 2 coaches and they battle it out for bragging rights. My son had an excused absents from practice 2 days prior for an academic after school project. On game day he inform my son that he would not play for missing practice. My son said but it was excused, but the coach said no. We have a baseball code of conduct that the parents, players, and coaches must sign, and hold each other accountable. My son followed the rules perfectly. My wife email the Varsity coach and ask if we misunderstood the rules for excused academic absents. The Varsity coach said that my son did right and should have played. After they lost the fund raiser game the losers had to run poles. Which ment my son ran poles in a game that he was wrongfully not allow to play and help win. As far as all the advice about working so hard that the Coach can't keep you out of the lineup. In case you missed it thats why my son hits, you can't deny that he can hit. The coach most likely hates everytime he has to put him in. He holds him back just to see if someone will rise up so he doesn't have to play him at all. Same with the other kid i mention. The coach wants certain players to earn those spots so the others can't. I will let it go now. I'm done. You can think it is fake or whatever. I will not respond anymore. Thanks for the good advice.

baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Do ALL of the little things right.  Do ALL of the little things right.  Right now we have a player fighting for a spot his senior year.  On deck batter, man on third less than 2 outs, deep fly ball -- what are u doing?  You better know or you'll be sitting.   

baseballhs posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:
baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

When Ryno was younger, he definitely got hosed, and didn't make an All Star team.  Completely unfair, but do you know what I told him?  GET BETTER!  Use it as fuel!  Get so good that there is no way that they can keep you off the team.  He did, and I don't think he would have if I had given him a bunch of excuses to use.

 

How do you ever prove yourself if you can’t take reps even in practice?  I don’t make excuses but I don’t believe a coach should put a kid in a box with no way to get out.

Sadly this falls under the life isn't fair category.

If the coach has 5 other kids that CAN do the job and he is questioning if your kid can or can't...then he doesn't have to let him try.

He doesn't have 5.  He just made a decision.  My son was ranked 3 in the state  26 nationally on PG for the position he can't even take reps at.  It is definitely in the life isn't fair category.

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

Handcontrol posted:
baseballhs posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:
baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

I was curious about that when he made the statement.  PG is pretty good at ranking kids...especially when they are that high.  I'm curious what position he is ranked #3 at?  We know a few things....1) he doesn't throw hard enough to be a pitcher  2) he has already admitted he can't throw guys out from catcher 3) he isn't nearly fast enough to be ranked in the top 26 nationally at an OF position....and there's been no mention of him being an IF....so what's left?  

Buckeye 2015 posted:
Handcontrol posted:
baseballhs posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:
baseballhs posted:
rynoattack posted:

Making excuses for your kid, blaming the players, coaches, etc. will not work.  As another poster mentioned, most all of our kids have gotten the shaft at some point, and I don't think most people would deny that.  However, it is a crossroads for your kid - they can either get in, or get out!  

If your son is ranked 26th nationally at a position by PG, and the HS coach won't even let him take practice reps at the position, I'd seriously consider finding a new HS.    

I was curious about that when he made the statement.  PG is pretty good at ranking kids...especially when they are that high.  I'm curious what position he is ranked #3 at?  We know a few things....1) he doesn't throw hard enough to be a pitcher  2) he has already admitted he can't throw guys out from catcher 3) he isn't nearly fast enough to be ranked in the top 26 nationally at an OF position....and there's been no mention of him being an IF....so what's left?  

The 26th PG ranking is BASEBALLHS, not BBDAD98.  That would really be a red flag lol.

Am I allowed to get retroactively ticked off? I forgot to do so ten years ago. My son was an all conference shortstop ten years ago as a soph. A less talented soph came up the following year. My son was moved to center. It’s not fair! It’s not fair! It’s not fair! As a parent I was sooooo humiliated.

It doesn’t matter that the team won the conference the next two years with my son playing center. The new shortstop made a bunch of errors. He didn’t go on to college ball like my son. My son was removed from “the stud position.” It’s not fair!

Last edited by RJM

It's an oldie but a goodie:

There are only two positions on a baseball team: on the field, or off.

KC12, you may wake up a year from now to find out that your son's HS coach has done him a huge favor by giving him reps at OF.

A couple years ago I heard a few parents at a school in our league complain that a player was getting screwed because he was being moved from the IF, where he was all league, to OF for his senior year.  Turns out getting screwed prepared him for Juco, where they needed him to play both OF and MIF.  He's done great for 2 years at this Juco, which is one of the best in the state, and I'm sure he'll have a nice D1 or D2 home next year.

(Edit:  Looks like comment I was replying to was deleted.)

Last edited by JCG
BBDAD98 posted:

Cabbagedad, thanks for the sincere comments. I am a calm person. My son is also like me with an extra boost of hormones. He is what i think a typical first born and a rule follower as I was and my wife. I get that it is the coaches team, and I hope he finds employment else where. He is very immature and inexperience. He coached against my old high school budy one game. My buddy had no clue about him, i had not spoken to him in 10 years or more. My friend called me the next day and asked why was that coach such a jerk, and he said that kids these days will not respond to his style of coaching. My friend was a travel ball coach before a HS coach and that may have something to do with it. You need experience and this coach has none. Sorry. To make things worse after the bad year my son had last year this coach would not let it go. How do i know? We had a fund raiser game in which the JV and Varsity get picked by 2 coaches and they battle it out for bragging rights. My son had an excused absents from practice 2 days prior for an academic after school project. On game day he inform my son that he would not play for missing practice. My son said but it was excused, but the coach said no. We have a baseball code of conduct that the parents, players, and coaches must sign, and hold each other accountable. My son followed the rules perfectly. My wife email the Varsity coach and ask if we misunderstood the rules for excused academic absents. The Varsity coach said that my son did right and should have played. After they lost the fund raiser game the losers had to run poles. Which ment my son ran poles in a game that he was wrongfully not allow to play and help win. As far as all the advice about working so hard that the Coach can't keep you out of the lineup. In case you missed it thats why my son hits, you can't deny that he can hit. The coach most likely hates everytime he has to put him in. He holds him back just to see if someone will rise up so he doesn't have to play him at all. Same with the other kid i mention. The coach wants certain players to earn those spots so the others can't. I will let it go now. I'm done. You can think it is fake or whatever. I will not respond anymore. Thanks for the good advice.

Thank you.  With respect, you are clearly still missing the point.  Still, I wish you and your son the best.

I was wrong... I'm not done.  I have two seniors in my program that I want to mention to you.  I have been working with these two off and on (bouncing from JV to V) for three or four years.  These two both had questionable mental thought processes (even by teen standards) and we have battled through them for a long time.  I have reached the point of beyond frustrated with both of them on MANY occasions.  In many ways, they were the guys that you would argue coaches didn't want to like.  I certainly didn't like the decisions they made and the way they carried themselves.  We talked a lot.  They sat a lot.  They were sent to or kept at JV often.  They definitely matched your description of being the players on the wrong end of the stick when it came to the coaches wanting other players to earn those spots.  It took a tremendous effort on the part of both of these young men to work through their attitude/behavior/mental weakness issues to push through and earn favor in the eyes of the coaches.  They recognized the points that needed to be addressed and they pushed through (although always an ongoing process).  These two are the only two that i sent congratulations notes to this morning after stellar performances in starting roles for varsity last night.

You mentioned in a previous post that there is nothing a kid can do if a coach doesn't like him.  Bullsh$it.  

It certainly was not an overnight process, though.

Last edited by cabbagedad

A "slap in the face" to be a starter on Varsity?  And a player headed to D3.  Helping the team is what is important.  If a kid thinks it is a slap in the face to be a starting OF instead of SS, then he is for a huge eye opener when he steps on campus.

He might end up grateful for the OF experience when he gets to college.  Being versatile might be the only way he makes it out of fall cuts at the college level....

cabbagedad posted:
BBDAD98 posted:
****
 

****

You mentioned in a previous post that there is nothing a kid can do if a coach doesn't like him.  Bullsh$it.  

Cabbagedad:  I think this post was great.  And I absolutely agree that sometimes kids (maybe boys especially) need "tough love" to help them understand that their attitudes and approaches have to change.

But I think we can concede that some coaches are just jerks.  Some will hold grudges, play favorites, be unreasonable.  Unfortunately, the same will be true of some HS baseball players' future bosses, colleagues, maybe even some "significant others."  Part of why we want our kids to participate in sports is so they can learn some key life lessons--such as dealing with jerks--before the stakes get higher, like in careers, etc. 

I say this only to acknowledge that maybe some of the posters here really do have sons who are in bad situations and are being treated unjustly.  It does happen.  But you won't talk a jerk out of being a jerk, nor will you persuade him with statistics or other coaches' evaluations of your kid's abilities.  Even if the facts are exactly as bad as you think (and let's face it, none of us is objective about our own children, no matter how hard we try), the advice given throughout this thread still applies. 

Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

Chico Escuela posted:
Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

Fair enough Chico. Usually when people question posts as people have here, they don’t give respect to the poster by continuing the discussion. That said you’re right and I’m out of this one. 

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

Last edited by PitchingFan

I don't see it necessarily as the "best 9" (which as you say is a big "lie" in many cases).  Reality is it should be the best 11, maybe 12.  You have 8 regular fielders.  Then an extra outfielder and utility infielder.  You're up to 10.  Add a few bats, pitcher only's etc. and you have a regular group you can rotate thru during the season.  One thing I see is guys who pitch and play the field need some opportunities to rest.  Doing both is a lot of wear and tear for a long season.  You need them fresh come play off time.  

PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

Of course there will be some bad actors in any group of people, so yes, you can't say "all coaches" do any one thing.  But from what I have seen I do think the vast majority of coaches on all high school VARSITY teams play they players THEY THINK will help them win. I have definitely seen the sons of hot moms, snack bar supervisors, and booster club presidents get benched or cut.

THEY THINK is capped because it's subjective and in some cases they may be wrong.

VARSITY is capped because from my (thankfully) limited exposure to Freshman and  JV teams, the focus of these teams is development, not just winning, so they don't belong in a discussion of whether or not coaches always put the best players on the field.

JCG posted:
PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

Of course there will be some bad actors in any group of people, so yes, you can't say "all coaches" do any one thing.  But from what I have seen I do think the vast majority of coaches on all high school VARSITY teams play they players THEY THINK will help them win. I have definitely seen the sons of hot moms, snack bar supervisors, and booster club presidents get benched or cut.

THEY THINK is capped because it's subjective and in some cases they may be wrong.

VARSITY is capped because from my (thankfully) limited exposure to Freshman and  JV teams, the focus of these teams is development, not just winning, so they don't belong in a discussion of whether or not coaches always put the best players on the field.

THEY THINK is a huge modifier.   Some guys out think themselves. 

I do not think it is as high as JCG makes it out to be.  I think the more competitive teams do but again that is minority.  There are lots of coaches out there that have their own agendas rather than the best players in mind.  They care more about keeping certain people or the right people happy rather than winning.  They are concerned about keeping their job through politics rather than winning because we also know that not everyone is worried about the team winning if Little Johnny and his friends don't get to play.  I have seen way too many high schools who do not care about winning, especially in this new world mindset of everyone getting a trophy. 

Maybe I'm delusional, but I thought participation trophies, where they exist, end when players are in the first or second grade.  Maybe it happens, but I have never seen a HS program give them out.  I've also never seen a HS team not care about winning, or not think that losing really really sucks. I have seen HS teams that have gotten used to losing, but that is a different discussion.

PitchingFan posted:

This has brought up a statement that I think is wrong.  Many on here have said that all coaches play their best nine.  My sons have been blessed with good coaches who held to this BUT.  I know coaches who have not played their best.

They have played:  the booster club's presidents kid or the biggest giver, the hottest mom's son, their best friend's son, their son, and on and on.  Some do not give younger guys a chance even if they are better.  My sons have played for some guys in other sports who believed that junior and seniors have earned their right to start and should start over younger guys even if they are better.  All coaches are not in it to win.  There are some coaches, especially JV and under that are not kept on for their win/loss record but because they knew the right person or were the right person or the school had no one else apply. 

So for posters to consistently say that all coaches play the best is false.  I know lots of guys who do not play the best.  I think we have to be honest in this and say there are some bad coaches out there.  The guy I followed in Missouri was a great guy but a terrible coach.  He knew nothing about baseball.  Had never even played slow pitch softball but he was the only one who wanted the job.  So we have to admit some coaches are just bad.

As I originally posted I’ll bet between everyone on this board we can come up with 100 cases of coaches not playing the best players. But in the big picture most coaches do play the best players. More often than not when I’ve heard the accusation it was a very inaccurate observation from an excuse making parent. Then before you know it the excuse is traveling the league as fact with the other excuse making parents.

We had a couple of parents on our high school team who would whine to anyone who would listen. It got to the point where parents would scramble when they saw them coming. So these parents would make their way to the other side and complain to the opposing team parents. It’s the best way to make news travel fast.

There are also legitimate reasons kids don’t play that are outside talent. We had a kid who was always busting up equipment. The display pissed off the coach. The parent asked why the coach cared if the kid was breaking his own equipment. What goes on in school from a citizenship and academic standpoint can affect playing time.

Start with parents believe their kids are better than they are. Parents also tend to have a higher opinion of their kid’s travel teammates since they see them play more often. Parents often don’t have the baseball acumen to see something in a player the high school coach sees. The high school coach may be thinking long term and not about today.

If you get into smaller high schools where they must hire from the school there may not be anyone qualified to coach. Don’t blame the coach willing to take the job. Thank him. Otherwise there might not be a team. Blame yourself for choosing to live in that school zone if it matters that much to you.

Last edited by RJM

Two types of coaches.  One who knows what they are doing (several on here) and one who doesn't know what they are doing.  Those that know can take a team of average talent and make them competitive.  Those that don't know might get luck as some veins of talent work thru the school but eventually are exposed.  

I watched type one last night.  Last year had a down year with a very young team and injuries.  Today, with a year under their belts, they are making a move.  But just watch them.  Everyone knows what they are doing and where they should be on EVERY SINGLE PLAY.  It's a pleasure to watch regardless of the score.  

Chico Escuela posted:
Midwest Mom posted:

I don’t understand why this thread keeps going.  This is self aggrandizement at best and fake at worst. It’s not worthy of this site. Why are seasoned members continuing to indulge in this thread?

I mean no disrespect at all when I say this, but if you aren't interested in the topic, then don't read the posts.  If you are getting email notifications and those bother you, then you can turn them off for this thread.  At any given time there are lots of conversations on this board I'm not interested in--and that's fine with me.  

Agreed...

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

 

cabbagedad posted:

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

 

It doesn’t matter if the player or the coach is the problem. The coach makes the lineup. The player has to adjust his attitude to be in the lineup. 

I look at this like crossing the street. I don’t step in front of cars because they’re supposed to stop. I don’t see the value of my dying words being, “I was right. He was wrong.”

Last edited by RJM

1. not the coach

2. I hope that's not what we're doing. I think we can acknowlege that coaches have different agendas without supporting OP's point of view.

I wonder if the OP ever played much himself.  Whoever posted that video of the pawn shop dude, thanks.  The dad was clueless as a dad and it looked like he never learned how to throw properly himself.  Poor kid.

RJM posted:
cabbagedad posted:

So, we've had the good/bad HS coach discussion many times here at HSBBW.  My questions are these...

1 -After reading all the posts from the OP, do we really think, in this instance, the bigger problem is the coach?

2 -In this instance, are we helping the OP and his kid any by reinforcing his belief that the issues lie with the coach?

 

It does matter if the player or the coach is the problem. The coach makes the lineup. The player has to adjust his attitude to be in the lineup. 

I look at this like crossing the street. I don’t step in front of cars because they’re supposed to stop. I don’t see the value of my dying words being, “I was right. He was wrong.”

I'm thinking that you meant, "It doesn't" matter.  You are correct!  It doesn't matter if the coach likes your kid or not.  He makes the line-up, and he is in control.  I've had this conversation with Ryno before.  It doesn't matter how the coach is, you have to figure out what that coach wants you to do.  You have to make him like you, respect your ability, or something to get his attention and get you in the line-up.  It's on you, not on him.  Same way with a teacher.  What do I need to do to get the grade that I want?  Same thing with a boss.

A person will most likely not mesh with every coach, teacher, or boss.  It is up to them to figure it out, or find a new team, class, or job.

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

 

FoxDad posted:

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

 

C) Recognize that his focus on what everyone else is doing wrong (in his eyes) has been passed down to his son and there's a learning opportunity for both here. 

Matt13 posted:
FoxDad posted:

Cabbage -

Regards to #1 - We have only heard one side of the story (the OP) and not the coach.  There must be some truth to what he posted, but I'm not totally convinced the coach is "the problem".  How many times has a disgruntled parent posted similar concerns on this board?  And parents (myself included) tend to have a bias (the rose colored glasses thing).

#2 - The OP has two options.  A) try to get the coach replaced, but that will be a time consuming process and won't necessarily result in more playing time for the player involved.  B) Find another school to transfer to, but depending on the state league rules, that has its own pitfalls.  In my state (VHSL), in most cases it involves said student sitting for a year before being allowed to participate in any sport.

 

C) Recognize that his focus on what everyone else is doing wrong (in his eyes) has been passed down to his son and there's a learning opportunity for both here. 

Yeah, that about sums it up... I think a few missed that my questions were rhetorical.

It's not the coaches job to get you to like him. It's the players job to get the coach to like him. How does a player do that? Well he can be the first guy there and the last one to leave. He can do more than everyone else. He can be coachable. He can work to be so good the coach has to put him in the line up. He can look for ways to stand out above everyone else. He can ignore those who would convince him the reason he is not playing is the coach. He can ignore the negative influences in his life. He can do all these things and more. And he can do all these things and more and maybe the coach still won't like him. So for that player what does he gain?

He knows he has done everything he could do. He knows he has been the best he could be. He takes that same attitude, work ethic and game plan to his next stop in baseball and life. He won't have this same coach, boss forever. Or he falls into the trap of finding excuses for his failure. He never develops the mentality that he owns his fate. No it's the coach. No it's the teacher. No it's the cop. No it's your fault. No there's no need to do anything special. No there's no need to do anything, it's out of my hands.

I mean what's the game plan when you relegate yourself to the Coach just doesn't like me option? When you don't play for the next coach what's the reason? The coach just doesn't like me again? Well that's all you know. Their all the same. How do you flip the switch when all you know is "The coach doesn't like me." So the coach is great guy and knows his stuff when your playing but the coach is a clown if I don't? It's the coach silly don't you get it?

Parents who spout this even when it might be true have no idea what they are doing. So these are the tools your going to give them to work with? Instead of saying "What difference does it make? You are who you are regardless of who he is. Make him like you. Don't let him stop you from being all you can be. Be so good he has no choice and if he still doesn't make him look stupid for not playing you. Never let anyone stop you from being the best you can be. Playing time or lack thereof should never change how you go about your business."

I often wonder about these comments about HS coaches. These blanket statements or these "percentages" of HS coaches people use. Just how many HS coaches has your son played for? How many HS coaches do you actually know? How many HS baseball coaching experiences have you actually had? Or are you just basing your opinion on the ONE HS coach your son has had and the numerous conversations you have had with other disgruntled parents of other HS coaches? You know birds of a feather flock together. We all know the reasons our son's don't play. It has nothing to do with his enormous undeniable ability. No the Coach just doesn't like him. We all know the best players routinely sit the pine.

HS coaches are human. Like other humans, some are deeply flawed, even disturbed, individuals. Yes, a player has to deal with this—life is like that and it pays to learn this lesson early. But to defend all coaches unconditionally (which some comments here come awfully close to doing) just isn’t realistic IMO. 

I also believe that at some point (which is going to vary with circumstances, by kid, and by kids’ age) a parent ought to tell a child that “No matter what you do, you may not change this coach’s / teacher’s / boss’s mind.”  The next part of that conversation needs to be about dealing with this fact in the right ways. But for my part, I think there are times when it’s not fair to a kid to just say “work harder, it’s all on you.”  

Chico Escuela posted:

HS coaches are human. Like other humans, some are deeply flawed, even disturbed, individuals. Yes, a player has to deal with this—life is like that and it pays to learn this lesson early. But to defend all coaches unconditionally (which some comments here come awfully close to doing) just isn’t realistic IMO. 

I also believe that at some point (which is going to vary with circumstances, by kid, and by kids’ age) a parent ought to tell a child that “No matter what you do, you may not change this coach’s / teacher’s / boss’s mind.”  The next part of that conversation needs to be about dealing with this fact in the right ways. But for my part, I think there are times when it’s not fair to a kid to just say “work harder, it’s all on you.”  

I think Coach May's post above sums it up quite nicely by using it as a teaching point for your kid's future.  When you say it's not fair to just say, "work harder, it's all on you", what exactly would you say.  There's a fine line between support and support through negativity.  For instance, if I say, "Ryan your coach is a fool, and he should be pitching you more", I am supporting him, but I am supporting him in a negative manner.  This will not be productive.

I've chosen to handle it differently.  "Ryan, I believe your coach should be pitching you more, but honestly, you haven't been getting the job done.  Your control isn't where it needs to be, and you need to make improvements in order for the coach to trust in your abilities."

I don't think anyone here thinks all coaches are right; but as others have stated, it's his kingdom, and you have to please him, not the other way around.

Ryno, I don't think we disagree...

Can you imagine having a conversation with your son in which you acknowledge there really seems to be nothing else he can do, and then talk with him about the fact life isn't fair and that while his coach may be wrong, he's still the coach?  Yeah, almost all conversations are going to boil down to "you have to work harder and try to change your coach's mind."  But I think there are times when you have to say "No matter how hard you work, you may not change this coach's mind.  That's not fair.  But you have to do the best you can and think about what you *can* accomplish, not what you can't." 

I do think some folks here come awfully close to saying HS coaches all are good, honest folks trying to do what's right.  Most HS coaches surely are; I hope *almost* all of them are.  And I get that folks feel the need to defend coaches against parents' natural inclinations to defend their kids and attack their kids' coaches.  I'm just concerned that we not reflexively make kids think the problem is always that they aren't doing enough--that's no healthier than teaching them it's never their fault.

I don't think anyone would come on here and say "All HS coaches are good guys." We all know that's simply not he case even though we all surely wish it was. The same coach who in one person's eyes is the end all to be all is a total failure in another person's eyes. If your son is playing and doing well the coach is all good. If your son is not playing the coach is a clown. Does that happen? Of course it does.

I think it's the right thing to do to be totally honest with your HS player. If your son is not playing do you know why? Does he know why? Are you both honest with each other? If your son is not playing and you can be totally objective and you have all the information needed and your son is being totally honest and he should be playing but is not how do you handle that?

Me personally "Suck it up. Keep working. Yeah he might be wrong but don't make him right. Keep pushing and keep grinding. Prepare for your opportunity don't wait for it. These situations only prepare you for success down the road. Man up and keeping fighting."

I have never seen a negative person who blames others for his failures change his lot. A negative seed yields a negative crop. On the other hand I have seen what a positive person who takes total ownership in his lot can do. It is a very powerful force that simply will not be denied in the end. A positive seed will always yield a positive crop. You just don't get to choose when the harvest is. Just know that you will have your day and you will be a better person for it.

Don't get caught looking at the moment as the final result of the journey. Sometimes the rocky road with the pot holes turns out to be the road that led to the ultimate success.

Chico Escuela posted:

Ryno, I don't think we disagree...

Can you imagine having a conversation with your son in which you acknowledge there really seems to be nothing else he can do, and then talk with him about the fact life isn't fair and that while his coach may be wrong, he's still the coach?  Yeah, almost all conversations are going to boil down to "you have to work harder and try to change your coach's mind."  But I think there are times when you have to say "No matter how hard you work, you may not change this coach's mind.  That's not fair.  But you have to do the best you can and think about what you *can* accomplish, not what you can't.

I do think some folks here come awfully close to saying HS coaches all are good, honest folks trying to do what's right.  Most HS coaches surely are; I hope *almost* all of them are.  And I get that folks feel the need to defend coaches against parents' natural inclinations to defend their kids and attack their kids' coaches.  I'm just concerned that we not reflexively make kids think the problem is always that they aren't doing enough--that's no healthier than teaching them it's never their fault.

I agree, there's a good lesson in this message too.  Anytime one's fate is up to another individual, sometimes doing all you can do isn't enough to get what you're looking for.  Learning how to grow through these situations is huge.

Parents want to win at all costs as long as their kid is playing.  Has any parent ever gone up to a coach and suggest he take his son out of the lineup so they can make a run for the title?  I had a parent talk to me about his son's mental illness for almost an hour.  It didn't help nor hurt his playing time, but it did make me think twice about cutting him (I'm afraid he might end up cutting me, literally). 

 

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Coach_May posted:

 The same coach who in one person's eyes is the end all to be all is a total failure in another person's eyes. If your son is playing and doing well the coach is all good. If your son is not playing the coach is a clown. Does that happen? Of course it does.

Hit nail on head!  I have seen this play out so many times over the years.  

RJM posted:

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Whether it started with fakery or not (I'm agnostic on that), this has been an interesting, and helpful, thread for me.  It's always good to be reminded of some things, especially at the start of a new HS season.  I'm new(ish) here, but really have come to appreciate this site--and a level of civility here that is mighty rare on the Internet.

One last try on this topic:  I think I agree 99+% with RJM and other posters, but with a reservation. You may say I'm splitting hairs or obsessing (and believe me, you wouldn't be the first to tell me so ).

Sometimes I think a kid needs a parent to acknowledge that the kid is being treated unfairly, and not just told to work harder. Not often--maybe rarely--but sometimes.  One example that comes to mind is dealing with prejudice. My daughter had a teacher who had a reputation for favoring boys over girls. I say this as someone who also had a son go through this teacher's class and who has heard the same verdict from other parents who had kids of both genders in this class in other years. My daughter makes honey badgers look timid by comparison and she worked like heck to earn the grade she ultimately made in that class. I never suggested she had any excuse to do otherwise, never complained to the teacher or the administration. But I did acknowledge to my kid that her teacher seemed to have a problem and that I thought my daughter was right to feel she was being treated unjustly. (I won't go into details, but I'm a teacher and I don't make this accusation lightly.)

Granted, a coach's decision to bench a baseball player is different in a lot of ways, and all of us ought to be miiiiighty careful before we assume anything about a coach other than the best intentions and honest motives.  I guess the tl;dr version is: Sometimes I think the message ought to be "yes, that is unfair and it's ok to think so; but you still have to do and act your best," not just "your coach/teacher/boss gets to make the rules, so suck it up and try harder." 

Chico Escuela posted:
RJM posted:

A parent who convinces their son it’s the coach’s fault is just training him for following a family legacy. I’ll bet you can find that parent at the water cooler blaming his boss for the promotion he didn’t get. He can be proud knowing someday his son too, will be a complainer at the water cooler. 

Whether it started with fakery or not (I'm agnostic on that), this has been an interesting, and helpful, thread for me.  It's always good to be reminded of some things, especially at the start of a new HS season.  I'm new(ish) here, but really have come to appreciate this site--and a level of civility here that is mighty rare on the Internet.

One last try on this topic:  I think I agree 99+% with RJM and other posters, but with a reservation. You may say I'm splitting hairs or obsessing (and believe me, you wouldn't be the first to tell me so ).

Sometimes I think a kid needs a parent to acknowledge that the kid is being treated unfairly, and not just told to work harder. Not often--maybe rarely--but sometimes.  One example that comes to mind is dealing with prejudice. My daughter had a teacher who had a reputation for favoring boys over girls. I say this as someone who also had a son go through this teacher's class and who has heard the same verdict from other parents who had kids of both genders in this class in other years. My daughter makes honey badgers look timid by comparison and she worked like heck to earn the grade she ultimately made in that class. I never suggested she had any excuse to do otherwise, never complained to the teacher or the administration. But I did acknowledge to my kid that her teacher seemed to have a problem and that I thought my daughter was right to feel she was being treated unjustly. (I won't go into details, but I'm a teacher and I don't make this accusation lightly.)

Granted, a coach's decision to bench a baseball player is different in a lot of ways, and all of us ought to be miiiiighty careful before we assume anything about a coach other than the best intentions and honest motives.  I guess the tl;dr version is: Sometimes I think the message ought to be "yes, that is unfair and it's ok to think so; but you still have to do and act your best," not just "your coach/teacher/boss gets to make the rules, so suck it up and try harder." 

I’ve forgotten how many times I’ve been screwed or my kids (29 and 25) have been screwed. Sometimes these threads bring back the memory. But I had forgotten for a reason. In the moment I decided, or convinced my kids “This is not going to get in the way. There is a go around I need to find.” After the fact  I’ve forgotten about these situations because I don’t dwell on the negative. I celebrate where I am now. 

Back when I was at a President’s Club the hired keynote speaker said, “It doesn’t matter where you’ve been if you’re happy where you are.” When I do look back I don’t dwell on who held me back. I congratulate myself for fighting through to the other side.

I’ve taught my kids to do the same. If anyone thinks competitive sports can be rough, jump into the politics in the corporate world. There’s always a solution in the long term. But you don’t get there focusing on the negatives. 

Leaders don’t come from the whiners circle at the water cooler. Leaders come from those who walk away from those at the water cooler, sit in their office and come up with solutions to the problems. In a simpler world, sports, the same philosophy applies. 

Last edited by RJM

Very good post. But then I think about all the times I didn't get what I probably deserved. My kids didn't get what they probably deserved. I think about all the good things I have been given. All the good opportunities I was afforded. And I'm simply too busy counting my blessings to have time to think about negative stuff. 

I also have lived long enough to have seen what I believed was a curse turn out to be a blessing. And what I believed was a great break turn into a freaking nightmare. I don't believe we can judge an outcome before the final results are in. 

You can't pick a Rose without navigating the thorns. I say embrace the thorns of life. Sometimes they end up being the Rose.

If everything was perfect for someone then do they ever truly value when they are successful?  Winning is not easy.  Getting that promotion is not easy.  Getting that job is not easy.  So when you have those things you need to appreciate the hard work, mental toughness and value that you get from success.  

I was a head coach for 9 years in Kentucky.  Decided to step way from being a head coach and make a major move in my life to relocate to NC where I did NOT know a single soul.  The plan was to be away from being a head coach for 1 or 2 years.  Ended up being 9 years for various reasons with one being a challenge created by other people.  Now that I am back in the big seat I am having the time of my life.  It has been so much fun and I think that has infected my guys because we are having fun out there.  I can appreciate being a head coach so much more now than i did before.  

I'm happy for you Coach. Having read your posts for several years there is no doubt in my mind you are the kind of guy we need doing this. Like you I stepped away for a few years. My last year coaching was 2008 in HS. I can honestly say I am enjoying it this time around more than I ever have. I am having more fun and enjoying every moment with the guys. As you know there is so much more to this thing than what people tend to worry about. The relationships that are built. The mentoring and the experiences that have nothing to do with actually playing the games. I wish you all the best and I know your players are lucky to have a coach like you.

Update: Take it how you guys want. My son finished HS JV with over .400 avg highest on the team, 50 AB and DH in the 8 and 2 hole and was awarded MVP for all of his offensive efforts. He played 6 total innings of defense in 16 games. His end of the year meeting was positive with one constructive criticism. He was told that he did not play Varsity and that he will not make it to the next level because of his throwing motion. 6 boys from JV and 1 boy from our freshman team were called up to Varsity to play the last 4 games of the season and to play in the playoffs, we made it to round 2. My son and I watch from the bleachers, he was not called up. He made a .500 team for summer ball with a good organization and college coach. He was lead off and starting CF, he made 3 amazing throws home to stop a runner or gun them out. My son was 14 and played up on a 15U team and the team played up in 16U wood bat PG tournaments. He was looked up to as a leader by the players and coach, which surprised him, he humbly told them I'm only 14 and a JV player.  My son had a great wood bat season batting just under .400 avg. He lead the team in avg, and hits and was in the top three for OBP, steals, and others according to PG Diamond Kast. He made 4 All Tournament teams at PG. He had right at 90 AB. He also pitched and was throwing 78-82 mph which was a personal record for him. He had a blast this summer with his travel coach and team and I hope he can continue that with his HS career. He is currently taking the fall off to workout and work on that throwing motion that is killing his HS career.

HS Tryout update. My son made good improvements in the off season. He is faster and stronger and increased his exit velo and throwing velo. He was put on the JV team again. I am sure he will have another great season, he has put in the extra work as always. Found out yesterday that the coach does not want the players swinging wood bats at all because they are not in the majors and he also said that their summer PG stats don't matter. SMH

BBDAD98 posted:

 Found out yesterday that the coach does not want the players swinging wood bats at all because they are not in the majors and he also said that their summer PG stats don't matter. SMH

Don't want to rehash the whole V/JV debate, but I don't think any HS coach cares about Summer PG stats.  I happen to agree with the coach on the wood bat things.  Very few HS players really know how to swing a wood bat.  Composite bats are way more forgiving of swing glitches.  

The coach didn't say they don't matter to him, he said that they did not matter. He might have meant to say not to him. I can give him the benefit of doubt. Question if you had 9 of your HS players in PG wood bat tournaments over the summer across 3 teams and they played the same age and same weeks and you told them you would follow them. Would it matter then? Would it matter that you had players doing very well, some average and some doing poorly? Would it matter that you get to see how your hitters and pitchers do against better competition if you plan to go deep into the HS playoffs and you know already that you have the weakest schedule? You already know the HS region comp stinks until you reach playoffs. If none of that matters then fine it is whoever's opinion. The wood bat helps the BBCOR bat swing. The wood bat is less forgiving therefore if you can hit with wood you will hit with the BBCOR and since the BBCOR is more forgiving you should get even more hits. My son adjusted very well moving to all wood bat tournaments because it was something he practiced since he was 12. But again you can disagree. I am just trying to prepare my son for the next level. Side note my son did fix his weird throwing motion in the off season. He use to throw on a line and on target but he was putting extra stress on his shoulder. Now he throws faster 85 from 72 but with a decrease in accuracy. Which should improve with practice. 

BBDAD98 posted:

The coach didn't say they don't matter to him, he said that they did not matter. He might have meant to say not to him. I can give him the benefit of doubt. Question if you had 9 of your HS players in PG wood bat tournaments over the summer across 3 teams and they played the same age and same weeks and you told them you would follow them. Would it matter then? Would it matter that you had players doing very well, some average and some doing poorly? Would it matter that you get to see how your hitters and pitchers do against better competition if you plan to go deep into the HS playoffs and you know already that you have the weakest schedule? You already know the HS region comp stinks until you reach playoffs. If none of that matters then fine it is whoever's opinion. The wood bat helps the BBCOR bat swing. The wood bat is less forgiving therefore if you can hit with wood you will hit with the BBCOR and since the BBCOR is more forgiving you should get even more hits. My son adjusted very well moving to all wood bat tournaments because it was something he practiced since he was 12. But again you can disagree. I am just trying to prepare my son for the next level. Side note my son did fix his weird throwing motion in the off season. He use to throw on a line and on target but he was putting extra stress on his shoulder. Now he throws faster 85 from 72 but with a decrease in accuracy. Which should improve with practice. 

Again, I am not getting into your specific situation.  I'm talking more in generalities.  

If you're talking about baseball stats.  Batting Average, ERA, etc, he is correct they don't matter.  What matters to the colleges are measurable.  Things like Batted Ball Exit Velo,  Position throwing velocity, 40 yard speed, and then the eye test (do they play like the coach would like them to play).  

I want to agree with you in general. If you have 9 players as an example and you know their measurables from HS and PG you can see how they use what they have. Hitting an 88 mph fastball for a line drive base hit is different from hitting 88 mph off a tee. An 88 mph ground ball to 3rd off of a pitcher helps no one. Throwing 88 on the mound and can't find the strikezone is bad in PG and HS. I feel overall the statement was better left unsaid. The players who did well were told it did not matter and the players that were struggling at PG were told its ok stats don't matter. How about motivating both.

I would love to know how the PG Stats even came up unless someone was trying to tell a coach what they were.  I would agree if you were telling me your son's PG stats I would say I don't care what they were.  I care about what he does for me right now.  I know kids that have good summer stats but can't hit the slower pitching of HS so they don't get to play much.  I also know kids who have great summer stats playing lower level ball but can't hit fast pitching so they struggle.  Summer stats only matter in the summer and spring stats only matter in the spring and then all stats matter if they are equal and are validated by your ability to play the game.  I also don't care what your summer coach says.   Or if I'm your summer coach I normally don't care what your HS coach says.  When you are with me, it is my way.  I hope no dad or player would try to tell their HS coach about their summer stats but I'm sure it happens.

On wood bat, I think if you can hit with wood bat then it makes you a better hitter but if you struggle with it in practice then put it up.  I would only let a kid hit in HS games with a wood bat if he was dropping bombs regularly or batting over .500.  I would never let a player hit in a game with a wood bat unless he is the stud and there are few of those.   Why would you want to?  Is that what he is talking about or hitting in cage?  Cage, I'm ok with but in games, no way.

Congratulations to your son on fixing his weird throwing motion.  All those posts from you last year (earlier in this thread) bashing this coach ...  sounds like the coach was right last year after all, playing him mostly at DH... might have saved his career.   In hindsight, sounds like his actions were pretty good motivation for your son to fix it.  Have you or your son thanked him for that?

(I'm taking the over on three more pages)

Last edited by cabbagedad

A couple things?  1) How did the coach know to say "PG summer stats don't matter"?  Please don't tell me that your son told him.   2) You're not seriously advocating that your son would use wood in a HS season over BBCOR?    My son hit very, very good with wood....probably as good as he did with metal as far as average and power over 3 seasons of top level summer ball....but he would NEVER have considered using it in a game situation.  Sure, balls that are hit well are pretty close to equal, but balls that are mishit with BBCOR can still in some cases end up getting thru....balls that are mishit with wood are ground outs.   I guess I can understand your frustration with the HS coach, but your arguments so far (PG stats, etc, etc) aren't proving why he is wrong...just proving that you are way too into stats.   If your son is looking to play in college....I would start now....and wipe every stat you know about him out of your head.  College coach's don't care....AT ALL.    You could hit .750 in HS....but if you hit nothing but hard ground balls that get thru the hole between 1st and 2nd you're not getting a sniff from a college coach.   Again, your HS coach may be wrong....but trying to use meaningless stats to prove your point is only digging a deeper hole for your son to dig out of if he wants to play varsity

I too find it odd that PG Stats came up in a conversation.  Did you, as a dad, go up to make sure that this ignorant coach knew how good your son was?  Did your son go up and say to the coach that he had a great summer and the number prove that he is better than the rest of the guys?  Personally, I love for my hitters to hit with wood as much as they can but in a game, no way.  There are advantages to the wood in that, imo, they can make the swing mechanics better.  There are advantages to these other bats and those advantages outweigh the wood bat in HS games.   This is an interesting thread!

Finally, any negative conversations with you son about how you dislike this coach will not help your son.  In fact, they just might be a reason why he isn't getting that shot at V that you want.  

The reason I think the PG stats were brought up by the coach is I overheard a player bragging on another player for throwing 88 while catching. Someone or all didn't believe it so the player that was telling the stats said that they could look it up on PG. Now I also know that at the end of the season the HS coach asked me where my son was going to play for the summer and my answer was with 2 of his other players on team X. He said good that he would follow them all and planned on even coming to some games at PG. The coach also has a travel team that plays at PG. I don't think I mislead anyone on the wood bat issue but If I did sorry. The HS coach does not want them to ever swing a wood bat at his practices and that goes for tee work on up. I agree about a wood bat not being used during HS games. My sons throwing motion lol! No I did not thank the coach for that info. I knew that my son threw a little weird and we had tried to address it before. My son was getting the job done, on a line and on target the way he had been coached. I see no benefit in throwing a rainbow over the cut off guys and 3rd base, sorry I don't. I paid someone to help my son with his throwing in the off season. The HS coach spent all last season with him and did not mention it until the end of the year meeting as a reason he was not going to play at the next level. The coach was of little to no help. Joking but not really I looked up the coaches senior PG measurable stats and I have to say they are not great numbers so maybe they really don't matter to him, but for a different reason.   

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