There were so many parents like this poster when I was playing. They were too hung up on the coach. The parents attitude towards the coach became a distraction for the kid and affected his attitude and his advancement.
BBDAD98 posted:....The HS coach does not want them to ever swing a wood bat at his practices and that goes for tee work on up. I agree about a wood bat not being used during HS games.
So, use it in outside practice/instruction
My sons throwing motion lol! No I did not thank the coach for that info. I knew that my son threw a little weird and we had tried to address it before. My son was getting the job done, on a line and on target the way he had been coached. I see no benefit in throwing a rainbow over the cut off guys and 3rd base, sorry I don't.
Why do I find it hard to believe that the coach was teaching specifically to throw a rainbow over the cut?
... The HS coach spent all last season with him and did not mention it until the end of the year meeting as a reason he was not going to play at the next level. The coach was of little to no help.
Why do I find it even more difficult to believe that the coach brought it up end of year but never mentioned it once during the whole season?
Joking but not really I looked up the coaches senior PG measurable stats and I have to say they are not great numbers so maybe they really don't matter to him, but for a different reason.
So, you trolled your son's HS coach' playing day stats to use against him in public forum... nice. New level.
It has become glaringly evident that your son has made some nice improvements since last year but you are very much the same person, despite dozens of knowledgeable, experienced folks here trying to help steer you to a better path for your son's sake. (For those wondering why I am taking a particularly harsh tone, please read this poster's MANY previous posts in this thread.)
I do honestly hope your son is able to overcome what I suspect are his biggest two hurdles.
I think you are blowing up what the coach said. Players were talking about what they could throw and one is bragging that player X could throw 88 and the others were questioning it. The player check out his PG stats and the coach said PG stats don't really matter which they don't. How fast can you throw and well can you help the team. I also do not think a coach's playing ability affects his ability to coach. I know some great coaches who never played the game but have learned how to coach it well.
I also understand a coach not wanting wood. Swing it during the off season but swing the bbcor during practice and games. Don't agree with it but understand if it is his philosophy then go with it. My son was the only player allowed to swing wood bat during bp at his high school. when the coach was asked, he said when you start hitting .500 and double digit HR's then you can swing wood also.
I have told my son that I do not agree with some peoples baseball ideas. I have not told my son that the coach is dumb. He can come to his own conclusions. My son is not dumb and he reads people very well. I told my son to bring his wood bat home from school. I went out and got my son a used BP bat and put new grip on it for HS since he can't use his wooden one and I didn't want him to wear out or break his composite bat in this cold weather. My son never mentioned his playing time or any HS stuff to his Travel coach. During the season the travel coached asked my son about HS and the Travel coach mention that the HS coach was dumb and wanted to wring his next. My sons travel coach was an ex minor league player for many years and now current Juco college head coach. If it even matters.
BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
Coach: "Sorry Jimmy, I know you killed it in tryouts and look to be a promising player, but Johnny hit .374 in his Perfect Game tournaments this summer so I have to do what is right"
CoachB25 posted:I too find it odd that PG Stats came up in a conversation. Did you, as a dad, go up to make sure that this ignorant coach knew how good your son was? Did your son go up and say to the coach that he had a great summer and the number prove that he is better than the rest of the guys? Personally, I love for my hitters to hit with wood as much as they can but in a game, no way. There are advantages to the wood in that, imo, they can make the swing mechanics better. There are advantages to these other bats and those advantages outweigh the wood bat in HS games. This is an interesting thread!
Finally, any negative conversations with you son about how you dislike this coach will not help your son. In fact, they just might be a reason why he isn't getting that shot at V that you want.
I want to make one more point. Not only would I not care about some summer stats, I don't care about the stats for the year before for my varsity players. That was last year. This year, they need to prove to me again that they deserve to be on that field. That letter they earned was for last year as well.
BBDAD98 posted:I have told my son that I do not agree with some peoples baseball ideas. I have not told my son that the coach is dumb. He can come to his own conclusions. My son is not dumb and he reads people very well. ...
"I have not told my son that the coach is dumb."
You have over 25 posts in this thread (primarily bashing this coach), most are very lengthy, going into great detail of extensive conversations you have had with your son (almost always sympathizing and rationalizing his interactions with the coach), conversations among teammates you have overheard, conversations with other coaches and instructors who supposedly have negative things to say about this coach and VERY extensive tracking of your son's stats at every turn in effort to prove this coach wrong and incompetent. It would be absolutely impossible for you to not have conveyed your feelings about this coach in some manner to your son. Who are we kidding?
If you honestly believe your son is not fully aware and picking up on your vibe and is not influenced by it, you are seriously mistaken.
You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
game7 posted:BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
First I can't believe this thread is alive again... second I don't really remember much about it and not sure I want to read back so my reply is strictly for onthis statement and has nothing to do with the larger issue.
Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad ...
Not one person here said that. You are missing the point yet again.
Wouldn't his teammates want him on the varsity if he could help them?
2020dad posted:game7 posted:BBDAD-
I'm going to assume your son is easily good enough to be playing varsity.
Therefore, I think the reason your son hasn't made varsity is that the coach has either heard from others or seen for himself that you are a potentially disruptive baseball dad.
It's unfortunate when sons have to pay for the sins of their fathers, but sometimes it's reality.
Prime evidence that you aren't thinking straight is the fact that you have posted so many identifiable details about your son's situation. which means it's plausible that the HSV coach has been reading this thread.
First I can't believe this thread is alive again... second I don't really remember much about it and not sure I want to read back so my reply is strictly for onthis statement and has nothing to do with the larger issue.
Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
I think human nature in general when evaluating talent has two mindsets which many times is subconscious.
One is looking for reasons to play a kid.
and
Two is looking for reasons not to play a kid.
For obvious reasons you want your kid to land in bucket one.
cabbagedad posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad ...
Not one person here said that. You are missing the point yet again.
He doesn't want to see the point, he's looking for validation in his opinion that the coach is bad and his son should be playing varsity. He attended tryouts and it sounds like he is attending practices as he claims he overheard a player bragging about PG stats. That right there is enough to discredit any objectivity he might have. He is so caught up in his son playing and others not agreeing with him that he doesn't care to listen. When parents like this come up to you in person you have to just nod your head until they leave.
BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Buckeye 2015 posted:A couple things? 1) How did the coach know to say "PG summer stats don't matter"? Please don't tell me that your son told him. 2) You're not seriously advocating that your son would use wood in a HS season over BBCOR? My son hit very, very good with wood....probably as good as he did with metal as far as average and power over 3 seasons of top level summer ball....but he would NEVER have considered using it in a game situation. Sure, balls that are hit well are pretty close to equal, but balls that are mishit with BBCOR can still in some cases end up getting thru....balls that are mishit with wood are ground outs. I guess I can understand your frustration with the HS coach, but your arguments so far (PG stats, etc, etc) aren't proving why he is wrong...just proving that you are way too into stats. If your son is looking to play in college....I would start now....and wipe every stat you know about him out of your head. College coach's don't care....AT ALL. You could hit .750 in HS....but if you hit nothing but hard ground balls that get thru the hole between 1st and 2nd you're not getting a sniff from a college coach. Again, your HS coach may be wrong....but trying to use meaningless stats to prove your point is only digging a deeper hole for your son to dig out of if he wants to play varsity
Absolutely, hit with wood in bp and in wood bat tournaments but not in HS games. You are hurting your team when you don't use the highest performance allowed bat even if you do well with wood.
BBDAD:
A few years ago at the Hall of Fame Baseball field in Cooperstown. Our Goodwill Series American Team is playing the National Team from Japan. On our American team 6 players later played in the ML. One of the parents was behind the home plate screen "yelling" instructions to his son. During the 35 years of the Area Code games and Goodwill Series I have encountered the "over involved" parents. I quietly said to the father "do you want your son "killed"? The Japanese coaches will switch the pitch within seconds and if you son is looking for a slider, it was be a "fastball up and in"!!!
Bob
PS: why not enter your son at the JC where your Summer Coach is the Head Coach?
Things I learned from this thread.
BBDAD98 is one of "those" parents.
Stats don't matter. Even though they are recorded and kept for every level of baseball from T-ball to the MLB.
Wood bats will amplify the flaws in your swing thus over time make you a better hitter, increasing your chances at playing at the next level, but should never be used in game play for the good of the team.
CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
2020dad posted:Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is.
That might have been a good idea before posting.
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
If you are on a high way and see dozens of wrong way drivers maybe consider that something is wrong
.
smokeminside posted:Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
I think a good way that even many minor and major league hitting coaches do is leaving the studs alone. Offer them advice but as long as they rake let them do their thing and spend most energy to improve the 6th to 15th best player of the roster.
Those guys have more potential to improve anyway and usually shouldn't push back unless they have super delusional parents.
When it comes to hitting i tend to leave style things that are individual alone but certain things must be there.
I'm confident i can improve most hitters but if someone doesn't want to listen i don't force him but then he better performs.
CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
2020dad posted:I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches.
I'm not so sure you do. Coach isn't being a hard-ass; he's being firm.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
Amen. Coaches do come and go. So kids should change everything from one year to the next if a new coach is hired? To pretend there aren’t bad coaches is naive. To think some programs aren’t winning in spite of the Coach is naive. Im sure most coaches have good intentions but if it’s not broke, don’t fix it just to have your mark of to show it’s your way or the highway. Example: if a kid is committed to a top 25 program for hitting, you probably don’t need to change his swing... but it happens. And people say if you don’t like it leave? Come on.
At the risk of sending this thread onward for three more pages, on the topic of high school stats, see the bottom of this page from a D1 recruiting coordinator: https://files.armssoftware.com/2030580/9a9d759d0619
My son's HS keeps their stats in the dugout (not a public gamechanger) and hands them out at the baseball banquet at the end of the season. My son definitely had college coaches ask for his stats.
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
I agree but I can understand a coach saying my way or highway.
A big company CEO doesn't own the company either but he isn't told how to run the company. You let him do it is way and if he doesn't succeed you fire him.
I think a head coach is similar. You don't micro manage every single of his steps but you let him work and judge the overall product. I will allow a lot of individuality but I too absolutely can't Stand being micro managed.
Either you like the overall product of a coach or you fire him.
Still I think modern coaches should listen to arguments and be open to change. But if he isn't it is not the parents job to change him, either you like the overall product or you don't.
Ok, I know I've posted this before....but watch this.....go t 6:30 in
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4QSddCTQo4
This guy is from my small hometown. I coached his kid on our local teams in 6th-8th grades. He was a nut....but I'll admit that some of this is staged...he's not that much of a nut BUT....everyone in our town...and every town around us saw this and thought he was EXACTLY that guy. The guy really never gave me much grief...I was good to his kid and I knew a lot more about baseball than he did. His kid was very good as a 12 year old...and played on a really good travel team. 4 years and 4 travel teams later (because of dad of course), he wasn't playing travel anymore. Ended up being a decent HS player and never went further. Nice kid (loved having him on my teams)...and a friend of my son's...but I think he just got tired of dealing with dad. FYI...dad thought our HS coach was awful....but his son didn't show that attitude at all. Did whatever he was asked to do.
Dominic, thanks for your thoughts on that. Pretty much what the coach says.
smokeminside posted:Coach B 25—how do you handle kids who have outside instructors whose ideas differ from yours, especially swing mechanics? Ongoing issue between some of our parents and the head coach. Thx.
I've been on the record for a very long time saying that if it isn't broken, I won't try to fix it. The drills we do should reinforce what I consider to be a high level swing. Therefore, regardless of what some instructor teaches in the swing, the player should benefit from the drills we do in practice. Pitching is the same way. However, when that player experiences failure and refuses to make the changes that I see that they need, I'll play another. One example recently, there was a "stud player" according to the parents who started out 0-28 and was not hip to change. Great. We had another who took over and didn't lose that starting spot. Simply put, the best play and so, whatever you have your child do and listen to, you need to make sure that you are actually getting what you are paying for. I've coached HS for 33 years and been a part of some state championship teams and some nationally ranked teams. I was chosen, back in the day, to introduce baseball into the former Soviet Union. I know what I am doing. I have never hidden my opinion that any parent who doesn't like what the HS coach does, remove your child. That was my opinion my first year and that is my opinion this year. JMHO!
2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:2020dad posted:CoachB25 posted:BBDAD98 posted:You guys are all correct, there is no way possible the coach is bad or done these things and I am not being honest. I will say this before I go. My son has had good coaches, bad coaches, hard coaches and easy coaches. But there were two potential times he tried out for a team, and these were suppose to be good teams with good players that we knew and my son grew up with them in travel ball. These two teams had all paid coaches. This was two separate years at 14U and 15U. My son told me both times he didn't care if they offered him a spot or not he was not playing for those coaches and yes they offered him a spot. I didn't understand why at first and tried to get him to reconsider because both teams would play PG and should compete. I let my son decide from then on out 100% which team to play for. Both of those teams had bad coaches, players leaving and not returning to the teams after the season, big time fall outs. Parents would tell us boy you guys dodged a bullet. So I know my son can read people very well. I on the other hand give them the benefit of the doubt and make mental notes about whats going on. Thanks for listening
Per bold above, this is making my point. You just might be hurting your son in ways that you don't realize. However, and make no mistake, coaches notice subtle things about loyalty and players either buying into their system or not. After school today, we had a parent (dad) who wanted to stop by for a "brief meeting." It caught me off guard since I don't do these "brief meetings." We had open gym and I was not there since I had a family obligation I had to take care of. This dad "would appreciate it" if during open gyms, his child not be forced to do the things the other players are doing since he doesn't agree with the drill work. As with most programs, the seniors set up various drills from a list of drills posted during the high school system. We have a place by our cages with drills and explanations of drills posted that is up all year around for those who sneak up there to use the cage. Further, this dad wanted me to know that he realizes that we have good intent but ... Some of you might recall that something similar happened last year but that dad actually asked for a formal meeting. My solution both last year and this is the same. Basically, I appreciate the heads up and they should seriously think about investing in training while the others are playing high school ball. Perhaps the OP needs to think about this. As many of you might recall, I posed the question last year asking why someone would allow their child to play for someone that they think doesn't know the game and one of which improperly coach their child. It is that simple. Opt out.
Come on coach you know it's not that simple. A kid can want very badly to play with his high school buddies and represent his school without feeling the coaching instructions are in his best interest. I always talked to my pitchers. Ultimately I let them choose their own path. It's their career or lack thereof not mine. We would look at video. I would say what I saw. Listen to them about what they saw. Show grips but not demand that's what they use. It's just plain stupid for instance for anpitchimg coach to make every pitcher in the program throw a circle change. Maybe a kid has a different grip that works great with his hands and arm slot and delivery in general. Again I am not going back and reading all this stuff so I don't know what the OP's rep gripe is. But I think you would really agree that my way or the highway also isn't the way to go.
... and that is what is great about our various coaching styles. You get to run your program as you want and the same with me. Personally, I know how to win. I know what it takes per fundamentals, drill work, ... I am not someone who will let the players dictate to me what they will do in order for me to have the pleasure of having them on the team. I won't allow the parents to tell me what we are going to do as well. I can't imagine a successful system where 18 players with 18 agendas with 36 parents or more tell the coach what to do in practice.
BTW, of course pitchers have different pitches and way to throw. However, I have a system that the pitchers will work within. They won't be telling me that they don't believe in the band work or plyo ball work or ... Each to their own I guess. Again, it is really easy for me to help the OP. Remove your child if you don't like what the coach is doing. As a parent, you'll save your child from the idiot coach and as a coach, I won't be asked to compromise on what I believe to be the best program I can possible run.
I think that's sad. I am an old guy and understand very well the hard ass attitude of most coaches. And also know how to win. But it's not YOUR program. It's the school's. It's the kids. They were there before you and will be there after you. I sincerely suggest some perspective.
I absolutely disagree. It is my program. I am the one who will be fired if we fail. The school has turned that program over to me to see as I feel fit. I don't go through anyone for what I do in games, how I run practice nor how I spend my money. In the event that I don't produce, I expect to be fired. I don't coach a team. IMO, that is the problem with a lot of schools and HC. They want to coach a team when they should be building a program. Every assistant coach that I have had have been hand chosen. The district saw fit to hire them. That is how you take an also-ran team and turn it into a highly respected area power.
I should end with the above paragraph but I'll add must a little more. Why would you expect me to concede my experience and success and turn my program over to the whims of others? That expert most likely hasn't had half of the experience I have. That expert most likely was in diapers long after I started. From the days of the hitting wars to now, I have been involved in and kept up with all of the changes wrt hitting. I keep up on all of the latest things wrt pitching. I'm not stagnant. Finally, it is my name on that program. I won't concede my responsibilities and turn into a supervisor.
Edited to add:
Regarding the "hard ass" comment, I run a tight ship but am not a "hard ass" per your impressions. In fact, I have won the "post popular teacher" award for so many years in a row that the school no longer gives out the award. I've had dozens of kids go on to play professionally. I've had dozens more go on to great baseball schools. We've won a bunch of games. If it didn't work, maybe I'd take a different stance.
No need to quote previous posts in your reply..the last one took an enormous amount of bandwidth and makes viewing nearly impossible on a phone for others...thank you.
CatcherDadNY posted:No need to quote previous posts in your reply..the last one took an enormous amount of bandwidth and makes viewing nearly impossible on a phone for others...thank you.
In my experience, it is important to keep things in context. Thus the quotes. I don't use a smart phone. I'll do better. Well, not really, I don't post much anymore because I've seem to have become controversial. It works better if I just assist once in a while as a moderator and read. Back in the days when Bob Howdeshell created this site and I joined a couple of years after, there were a lot more coaches like me. LOL
CoachB25 posted:In my experience, it is important to keep things in context. Thus the quotes. I don't use a smart phone. I'll do better. Well, not really, I don't post much anymore because I've seem to have become controversial. It works better if I just assist once in a while as a moderator and read.
Quoting is good, just don't do a super multi quote with 7 posts and quote only the last 1-2.
I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
RJM posted:I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
Chief cook and bottle washer! LOL
CoachB25, that just put a smile on my face! 😊
MN-Mom posted:CoachB25, that just put a smile on my face! 😊
Wow! What a handle! Thank you for the gift of HSBBW!
CoachB25 posted:RJM posted:I wonder how many posters here know who Bob Howdeshell is.
Chief cook and bottle washer! LOL
Mr MN-MOM
I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
KTCOTB posted:I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
You are screwed
KTCOTB posted:I’m going to throw my hat into the ring and ask a question, since I overtstepped my bounds last year by texting the coach questioning why my son doesn’t get to play. Granted, this was middle school baseball. Obviously, it was not recieved well, and I apologized profusely for it. In fact, I regretted it iinstantly but texts are permanent. Fast forward to this year, my son is trying out for JV, and is vying for a roster spot of 16, with 21 trying out. My son’s middle school coach was promoted to JV now (my luck). So my question is: what are my son’s chances of getting a fair and unbiased shot at making the team? If he makes it , great, if not, we will get over it. I just don’t want it to be based on something stupid that I did.
Chances are the word was passed about “the dad.” Unless your son is going to be a legitimate contributor and a future varsity prospect he might want to try lacrosse or track.
When my son played 7th grade baseball there seventeen players. There were three moms from hell of bench players. The 8th grade coach went with a roster of fourteen.
Theres a performance/pain in the arse quotient that exists from school sports all the way through a business career. The more a person contributes the more crap is tolerable. Taking crap with no return on investment isn’t worth the stress.
I'll be the wishy-washy contrarian here. Your son might be okay. Did playing time change after your text? How did the coach handle your apology? How has your son improved in the past year?
Our coach is remarkably patient with players' parents but that's his personality and he suffers a LOT of second-guessing in the stands and even to his face, especially about game strategy. My son had an exceedingly difficult situation occur last year that was not his fault, and only tangentially affected playing time. He almost quit the team. His mom and I vented with each other, privately, but never talked to the coach about it unless he brought it up, which he did repeatedly as the situation evolved. We respectfully answered his emails but kept deflecting him back to talking with my son. The ice slowly thawed between them, kind of like a river after an Alaska winter, and he ended up having a great year.
I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
More to the point: You might be screwed, but maybe not.
As I said, it was a mistake, and I regretted it immediately. After I apologized multiple times (sincerely), I met with the coach to discuss my son. I know he should have asked the coach himself, but he is very shy and doesn’t talk about his frustrations. The coach seemed to take the apology well, and he told me he needs to work on his confidence. I don’t think he is a spiteful person- seems very easy going and nice. My son worked hard in the off season, bulked up, and has refined his swing, as well as his defensive skills. I promised the coach I would disappear: he wouldn’t hear or see me anymore. This was before I found out he was the JV coach. If he cuts my kid because he doesn’t think he is JV material, I will not dispute it or question it, but I want his assessment to be based on HIS ability, and not what I did.
I was thinking similar to Smoke... how did the "apologized profusely" go? And, probably more important, how much did your son improve since not getting much PT in middle school?
BTW, welcome to the site. And thanks for posting. Your story can help others.
Related story... I stepped down has HC of a HS program this past summer. I get occasional calls/texts from parents regarding the new staff. I try to either stay out of it or show support where I can. Last night, got a text from a disgruntled dad. I tried to defuse. He then told me he already wrote a letter to the principal. Went past the coach, past the AD. Ugghhh. Said he was "voted" by other parents to do so. Told him to get the h$!! away from those parents and never do that again.
His kid is probably screwed.
PS - looks like we were typing same time. Sounds like you did all you could and it is likely up to your son to earn it. Best to him!
To your point HSBAseballweb, I agree with what you said. This however was an isolated incident, I wasn’t that pain in the arse that constantly complained. I hope the JV and Varsity coach will see him as an asset/prospect, otherwise I don’t want him to be in the team and ride the bench the entire year. There is nothing worse than riding the bench (especially in the cold). I did that part of my Freshman year in college, and hated life.
Thanks Cabbage. I sent the email only to the coach, and did not discuss with parents, so it’s likely that he is the only one aware of it. At the very least, I hope it helps a parent on these forums. Wish i knew about this site last year- you guys could have talked be off the ledge. I just hope my son’s fate is in his hands and has not already been determined. That’s all I’m hoping for.
There's a WHOLE lot of talking off the ledge around here.
smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Sounds like you have a bunch of parents that smokemoutside !
Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Though I have never done that I would imagine they know exactly what to look for. It's not rocket science.
2020dad posted:Buckeye 2015 posted:smokeminside posted:I will say the culture of our kids' school is strange. 30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands.
Wow, that's crazy....how many of those parents even have any idea what they are looking at
Though I have never done that I would imagine they know exactly what to look for. It's not rocket science.
Well, in my experience, that group and the ones that show up to watch the whole practice every day often have a heavier tint to their rose colored glasses and they also have tunnel vision. It may not be rocket science but in their world, the earth is flat.
They are analyzing from the perspective of "what can I find that rationalizes my kid should be ahead of the others" instead of "how do each of these players measure up in total with one another".
For those I have offended, there are exceptions 
"...30-40 parents routinely show up for tryouts at the 7th-grade level, many with notebooks and stopwatches in their hands." That's flat out wacky.
KTCOTB posted:To your point HSBAseballweb, I agree with what you said. This however was an isolated incident, I wasn’t that pain in the arse that constantly complained. I hope the JV and Varsity coach will see him as an asset/prospect, otherwise I don’t want him to be in the team and ride the bench the entire year. There is nothing worse than riding the bench (especially in the cold). I did that part of my Freshman year in college, and hated life.
Most of what you've said sounds good, but I'm not a big fan of lessening the value that can come from riding some pine. You can learn a lot about a kid from bench time, and he can learn as well:
- How bad does he want it?
- What kind of teammate is he?
- Could learn from watching/listening to his coaches/teammates?
Spending some time on the pine is not a total waste. There are life lessons that can be learned about rooting for your teammates success, finding out what you are made of, self evaluation of your true skills, etc.
Agreed. Problem is as I have posted previously, he had very limited playing time in middle school ball. In football, he rode the bench as an 10-11 year old. While he is a starter on the JV football team now, one can only take so much of riding the bench. It builds character and resilience, but it also wears you down over time, and you question why you are doing this to begin with.
KTCOTB posted:Agreed. Problem is as I have posted previously, he had very limited playing time in middle school ball. In football, he rode the bench as an 10-11 year old. While he is a starter on the JV football team now, one can only take so much of riding the bench. It builds character and resilience, but it also wears you down over time, and you question why you are doing this to begin with.
I actually do feel for you. Every time we have a cold football game I think about all those parents who show up all the time to watch and support the team even though their kid doesn't play. Not sure I would be good at that. It's really tough to say when to find other activities. I always told my players (and it's true) that 20 years from now when they sit with their old high school buddies nobody's gonna be talking about how they were the star of the team or whatever. It's always about funny stories or stuff that happened on the bus or when the coach had a meltdown etc. shared memories. I think there is value in being part of a team but times are changing. You have some tough decisions facing you. Good luck.
Thanks. It is hard to stay positive. You can’t help but build up resentment over time. That’s how and why that email was sent out to the coach. It was during a game where there were like 10 kids there. The coach was not there and gave instructions to the acting coach on where and when to play kids. My son still didn’t get to play. My view has always been that middle school, and the beginning of JV is the time to give everyone a chance, so you get a real picture of what talent you have. Everyone knows that during those years especially, kids are still developing physically as far as size, skill and emotional development. The kid from 7th grade may be totally different a few years from then. This coach never really gave my son a chance to prove himself in practice and especially not in games. At this point it is too late to change sports nor would he want to. He is better at football, and is a starter so that will not change. As far as baseball, if he gets cut he is still good enough to play summer ball. He plays up on a 15u team ( which is similar level to school ball).
Kid riding pine, not making the higher team, etc is very frustrating. Unfortunately, it rarely ends well if the parents intervene. As much as they're not ready, especially if in middle school, our job is to coach our kids address it themselves. One day, our intervention will be an absolute non-option, so let them get the practice now.
My son is a HS senior, who still doesn't like to solicit advice/tips, which frustrates me to no end. At the end of the day, he's the one most impacted, so it's on him.
I agree. I learned my lesson fast last year. He needs to fight his own battles, fall and pick himself up.
Mentally active bench players contribute at every level. There is no excuse to come off the bench and not know the plays, signs, inning, out, situation, and etc. Stay in the game mentally every pitch/play. Steal reps even if only mentally. Know what's going on and be ready to contribute when called. So many times I've watched players names get called that are NOT prepared to perform. Pretty much sealing the deal to stay regulated to the bench. Nope it's not easy BUT that will get you on the field!
real green posted:Mentally active bench players contribute at every level. There is no excuse to come off the bench and not know the plays, signs, inning, out, situation, and etc. Stay in the game mentally every pitch/play. Steal reps even if only mentally. Know what's going on and be ready to contribute when called. So many times I've watched players names get called that are NOT prepared to perform. Pretty much sealing the deal to stay regulated to the bench. Nope it's not easy BUT that will get you on the field!
Watch for missed bases.
KTCOTB, every coach knows that once in a while an email is going to come. I never liked them. However, I never held that against the player. Those are two different things. Most likely, the coach knows that the player, if the player knew, didn't want that email sent. Your son was in middle school. So what? He has gone through puberty and is still developing. Have you noticed that the starting center on most middle school basketball teams are not the starting centers in high school? Puberty happens. Your son will be just fine if he put forth the time. If not, he already knows it. He'll either make or break it on his own. Finally, I was cut my freshman and sophomore years. I was a "stud" and "star" my junior and senior years. Believe me, I'm not alone.
Thanks coachb25.
KTCOTB posted:I agree. I learned my lesson fast last year. He needs to fight his own battles, fall and pick himself up.
It can get tough with lack of playing time or getting cut. But if it happens, a quick non confrontational conversation with the coach can help move things in the right direction. Pull him aside before practice one day and just politely ask what you need to work on to get back in the lineup or things he needs to improve for next year. You will always almost get an honest answer and more importantly it is an unbiased opinion on why you're not where you want to be. I think your kid will be fine in terms of the relationship, just be friendly if you see him and avoid apologizing/bringing it up again.
2020dad posted:Ok, when did coaches grow so soft? When are we going to wake up and take the testosterone crisis seriously and realize all this is part of the pussification of America. Never ever ever in my coaching career did me or ANYONE I coached with bring up a kids dad when discussing who should play and where they should play. Are you kidding me???! You put the best 9 on the field. If the coach is so soft he has to 'get even' with the dad by sabotaging a teenager... not much of a man. So if there is really a coach out there who has ever actually done this I would love to hear them admit it and defend it. We may discover this to be mostly myth.
Not sure if this applies but my son's youth travel coach definitely did. In his first 2 years of coaching the travel team, he experienced first hand the disruption to the team that crazy parents (and grandparents) would cause. It inevitably affects the on field performance. After the first 2 years, he screens the parents as much as the kids. He has turned away studs bec the parents are known to bring drama with them. This is one reason we stayed with the coach (the reassurance that he is doing his best to avoid disruptive parents).
However, that is youth travel though and not HS ball. I would think that off field disruptions and drama caused by parents can still affect on field performance in HS, but maybe not as much as youth travel where parents have more influence.
You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
2020, it's sort of like what George Carlin said about other drivers: "anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac"
W2020dad posted:You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
- Mother comes into the dugout in the middle of the game screaming at me for never playing her son in center or short. After all, he played these positions in LL. He wasn’t fast or quick enough to play these positions on a full size field.
- Father comes into the dugout and gets in my face for benching his kid. I had previously warned the kid after the first offense the next time he didn’t run out a pop up he would be benched. When I benched the kid he told me to my face it was f’n bull shoot. I told the kid to take a walk outside the field to the flag pole. I told him by the time he got back to the dugout either decide he wants to follow team rules or keep going, grab his father and leave.
- Mother brings a full dinner for her kid into the dugout.
- This was a kid I learned a lesson. I shouldn’t have put him on the team in the first place. It was a political decision. By the time the season was over the parents and I weren’t talking. We weren’t friends anymore either. The dad took it out in my son in basketball.
I played the kid in left. He hit .170. But of course he was a LL all star shortstop when his dad coached. When we ran a defensive first and third drill an entire practice he was the one kid who couldn’t throw out the runner from second to home. The dad was there watching the entire practice. A week later the mother corners me and asks why her son doesn’t play infield. I referenced the drill. The next game the father is up in my face warning me never insult the their kid to the mother again.
- In 14u travel softball I had a player who thought signs and rules didn’t apply to her. She was very talented. She was also very difficult to coach. She was kicked off every team the next three years. One time she was on the phone in the dugout in the middle of the game. I was at “had enough.” I yelled loud enough for everyone to hear, “Next at bat take your phone to the plate and call me for signals. Right now you better be ordering pizza for the entire park or get off the phone NOW!” No, her mother wasn’t pleased with my reaction. She pulled her out of the dugout and off the team.
How many do you want? These were all 13u and 14u when some parents have trouble accepting their kid isn’t a ball player or has a bad attitude he’s now willing to share. I just glazed over and assumed the dazed deer position until the parent was done. Then I told them to get out of the dugout and never consider coming in again. The great thing about travel ball is it’s easy to replace problems the following year. I could go on and on going back to to preteen sports and I’ve coached sixty plus teams. But in the scope of things it was a minimal and I’d do it (coach) again.
The stuff I witnessed and heard about at high school games was the typical coach doesn’t know what he’s doing, can’t judge talent, screwing my kid, going behind the coach’s back to the AD stuff.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for weak teams. Between my two kids varsity baseball and softball won the conference six of seven years and a second place the seventh and parents bitched.
My two favorite high school stories I witnessed was the parent who threatened to sue if her son was benched for going on vacation for a week in the middle of the season and the dad who claimed his son was screwed after getting benched for going 0-8 with five strikeouts, three errors and misplaying two gappers to the fence in three games.
I wasn’t aware of how stupid coaches are and how many parents who coached LL could do better until I wasn’t in the dugout for high school games.
When my son made varsity the coach was in his third year. The two previous years the team had losing records. But he was turning around bad play, bad attitudes and bad parents. The previous coach was owned and manipulated by the parents. Go figure under his reign the high school had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. Once the new coach turned it around the program won five conference titles in eight years before he couldn’t take it anymore and quit.
Being a coach is a job that I don’t envy- never had the courage to do it myself in spite of my college and semi pro experience. I’m sure they are damned if they do, and damned if they don’t. It’s easy to second guess when you are a spectator. I have resigned myself to the fact that what is meant to be will happen, and I don’t have control over it. Unless someone puts a hand in my kid, I will not get involved, regardless of whether or not politics, favoritism, or bias have anything to do with how decisions are made. Let’s face it, I think it is less than 4% of kids will make it to the next level (Divison 1, MLB). If your kid is on his way there, god bless. For the rest of us, we will just have to sit back and enjoy the ride for how ever long that is. That depends on our kid’s ability and willingness to continue to play. When that goes, all we have are the memories, and the videos. I want my son to be able to reflect on that time fondly. We don’t need the drama, and if it means no HS ball, so be it.
In my experience the delusional parents are just unaware of how competitive things get along the way. They haven't experienced it themselves or with an older kid. Most were either gone, or better educated by 14U. The real problem are the few parents who are familiar with the process and should know better, but still overrate Johnny.
2020DAD, here're just example of what I have experienced first hand.
- 7u all star season. Team wasn't doing well. Coach organized a fun kickball game with the 7u B team during one of our practice to get the kids to relax. Half of parents in the team wasn't happy. A couple of dad started cursing loudly in the bleachers. One of them even slammed/punched the bulletin board in the quad and broke the glass on the board. Another mom (whose son isn't a starter on the team) goes to the coach during the middle of the kickball game and told him in a loud voice for all the parents to hear: "clearly, my son needs more practice as he is not getting enough playing time so not sure why we are playing kickball".
- 8u all star season. Family who's been a close friend of the coach is not happy. The families are in the same neighborhood, played rec ball together since 4u Tball, kids hang out at each other's house, and mom has been team mom since 6u all star season. Their kid was struggling that year and went to bottom of lineup (but no loss of playing time). Parents and grandparents started grumbling a lot in the bleachers during games, loud enough for most people to hear. They second guess everything, and question decisions that the coach does. Several other families who are at the bottom of the lineup got influenced by them. The parents broke up in 2 groups in the bleacher towards the end (the rest of the parents just don't want to hear the negativity). Halfway through the season, the family ceased all relationship with the coach's family. Their son is not allowed to hang out with the coach's son anymore (they were best friends before this). They purposely avoid them when they see each other in the neighborhood pool. They started bad mouthing the coach at school. While there was an impact on the team, the biggest impact is with the coach's family's personal lives.
- 9u travel season. This happened to another team we are familiar with. One of the dad on that team was a rec ball all star coach from 6u to 8u. Cops had to be called at 7u and 8u in our games against them bec of how he was harassing the umpires. Coach was banned from the district and state tournaments. The stud kid tried out for our travel team at 9u. Knowing the parent's personality and history, coach didn't take the kid. Kid went to another team. Fast forward several months later, the team and our team is in the same end of season out of town tournament. During their game against another team (we were watching the game), parents in the same team started a brawl against each other and cops have to be called. Apparently, the antics of that family caused the parents to splinter in 2 factions during the season and animosity developed between the 2 factions. As an example, one of things the dad did was have spirit shirts printed just for their faction. Half of the families in that team left right after the brawl. The coach has to beg one of the family to drive back so that they can have enough kids to continue playing in the tournament.
Above are just some examples. I have a bunch more (some I personally experienced, some I heard first hand from other parents). One of them is a friend of mine outside of baseball whose child plays in a lower age group. Apparently, my friend becomes crazy during games and would barge into the dugout in the middle of games to curse out the coach and demanding why her son isn't playing more.
RJM posted:W2020dad posted:You know what I would love to hear sometime is what these 'crazy' parents do? Cause my son has played travel ball, high school ball, AAU basketball, high school basketball and high school football and I have yet to encounter this mostly fictional 'crazy' parent. Sometimes I think it's just 'the other parent'. You know the one who dares to act not like ourself? I think we all set a standard in our head and then that's it. Anything outside our own standard and we label a person crazy. And what about the guy who sits silent 99% of the time but loses it a couple times a Season out of frustration? Is he a crazy dad (by the way the craziest thing I ever saw was a mom). Or does the almighty coach on high just get to label people at their whim? Who gets to determine this? I sometimes yell 'run the ball' at our football games. In three years of football I have never once called or e mailed or sat down with the coaches for complant purposes. And rarely even speak to them other than hello. But I will bet anything some would qualify that as a 'crazy' dad. In all seriousness - just how soft are you people??
By the way as a coach I was made aware of parents yelling stuff from the stands occasionally. After the game. Why after the game? I can honestly say my focus on the game was so intense I never hear anything from the stands. That's the truth. Now I did while coaching baseball have a dad meet me at home plate IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME cause I pinch hit for his kid. That's pretty crazy. But so what? I mean really who cares? Was the entire team destroyed cause of that? Did I melt and cry? Why do some of you people care so much how others comport themselves. How bout this - just do YPUR job. Be it as a parent or a coach. Conduct yourself as you see fit and don't worry about what Mr Smith is doing over there. If he wants to carry a clipboard and wear a stopwatch around his neck and a stalker in his other hand why do you care so much? My weakness I must confess is delusional parents. I let them get under my skin. But whose fault is that really? Mine for sure. I need to let it go. I get viewed as a negative cause I will be blunt about Johnnies capabilities. That's my cross to bear and I really need to get better at letting it go. We all need to get better at letting some things go.
- Mother comes into the dugout in the middle of the game screaming at me for never playing her son in center or short. After all, he played these positions in LL. He want fast or quick enough to play these positions on a full size field.
- Father comes into the dugout and gets in my face for benching his kid. I had previously warned the kid after the first offense the next time he did t run out a pop up he would be benched. When I benched the kid he told me to my face it was f’n bull shoot. I told the kid to take a walk outside the field to the flag pole. I told him by the time he got back to the dugout either decide he wants to follow team rules or keep going, grab his father and leave.
- Mother brings a full dinner for her kid into the dugout.
- This was a kid I learned a lesson. I shouldn’t have put him on the team in the first place. It was a political decision. By the time the season was over the parents and I weren’t talking. We weren’t friends anymore either. The dad took it out in my son in basketball.
I played the kid in left. He hit .170. But of course he was a LL all star shortstop when his dad coached. When we ran a defensive first and third drill an entire practice he was the one kid who couldn’t throw out the runner from second to home. The dad was there watching the entire practice. A week later the mother corners me and asks why her son doesn’t play infield. I referenced the drill. The next game the father is up in my face warning me. Ever insult the their kid to the mother again.
How many do you want? These were all 13u and 14u when some parents have trouble accepting their kid isn’t a ball player or has a bad attitude he’s now willing to share. I just glazed over and assumed the dazed deer position until the parent was done. Then I told them to get out of the dugout and never consider coming in again.
The stuff I witnessed and heard about at high school games was the typical coach doesn’t know what he’s doing, can’t judge talent, screwing my kid, going behind the coach’s back to the AD stuff.
I can’t imagine what it’s like for weak teams. Between my two kids varsity baseball and softball won the conference six of seven years and a second place the seventh and parents bitched.
My two favorite high school stories I witnessed was the parent who threatened to sue if her son was benched for going on vacation for a week in the middle of the season and the dad who claimed his son was screwed aftes getting benched for going 0-8 with five strikeouts, three errors and misplaying two gappers to the fence in three games.
I wasn’t aware of how stupid coaches are and how many parents who coached LL could do better until I wasn’t in the dugout for high school games.
When my son made varsity the coach was in his third year. The two previous years the team had losing records. But he was turning around bad play, bad attitudes and bad parents. The previous coach was owned and manipulated by the parents. Go figure under his reign the high school had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. Once the new coach turned it around the program won five conference titles in eight years before he couldn’t take it anymore and quit.
Over how many years? And are people allowed to make mistakes and be forgiven? And the lady with the full dinner... if she brought me one too and it was good I would play that kid every day!!
I rarely saw parents with the chutzpah to act crazy or challenge the coach in front of everyone else. Instead, I would hear later, usually after the season had ended, about parents who had emailed the coach berating him (or other players) or challenging his game-day decisions, and marvel at what the coach had endured unbeknownst to the rest of us. Kudos to those coaches for handling these crazy-parent interactions with discretion and professionalism.
That said, I also have a couple of crazy coach stories, but I'd rather not spill them here.
There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure. I was a horrible coach when I was young. I won. I won at places others could not. But I was a lunatic. A screamer. I berated kids. I didn't see it as berating at the time. And I was a popular teacher. And totally different in baseball than I was in basketball. I was always an assistant in baseball because basketball was my main sport. Kids really liked me in baseball. In basketball I may not have been hated but I maybe should have been. I am ashamed looking back at some of my language I used with these kids. Locker room meltdowns. My teams won. But I was so bound and determined to be the next great D1 basketball coach... it was all about me. I finally had an epic meltdown - no need for details - and I went to the principal and AD and accepted the girls head coach spot. It got me away from all the guys I knew in the coaching circle. The guys I had rivalries with. In those days it was the kiss of death to coach girls. Being a men's D1 basketball coach was now an impossibility. I relaxed took a breath and just decided to coach some basketball. Took a program that hadn't won in twenty years and brought it to be ranked in the top 25 in the Chicago sun times and tribune. I was still intense for sure. Gave those girls all of my effort. Hours upon hours of scouting, crafting game plans, watching film Etc. still occasionally yelled in the locker room - but in a much different way. I had grown up. I had to. I couldn't burn that hot for much longer without destroying myself. I have been around a lot more ignorant, foul mouthed, egotistical, narcissistic, hard ass coaches than all of us put together have seen the same in parents. Truth is the coaching profession breeds these attitudes. It is changing for sure but unfortunately now we get decent people with no passion or knowledge for the game!! Maybe someday we will get it right.
I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
It's the coach's job to win games...at least it used to be....now it seems like more and more it's a HS coach's job to keep everyone happy....players, parents, administrators, etc. When I played in the early 80's our junior high football coach would put pads on and run over us in practice...the guy was nuts....but we just thought "hey, he's just making us better". Not one person ever complained. I ran into him a couple years ago and mentioned it while his wife was standing next to him. She obviously had never heard the story. We all got a good laugh out of it and he said "can you imagine if a coach did that today?". 6-7 years ago, a group of HS girls basketball parents essentially got a very good coach ran out of the program because they complained that "she yelled too much". Keep in mind, some of these parents were friends of mine and their daughters were friends with my kids. These parents were complaining about the HS coach when their daughters were in 6th grade....and just kept ramping up the pressure to the point that the coach was let go. My daughter played for that coach a couple years earlier. My daughter at the time was one of the quietest girls you'd ever meet. I flat out asked her...."Does Coach #### yell too much". She said "dad, no, she yells...but it's just how she is...it's not like she's really being mean". I lost a lost of respect for those friends...and also the administration at my kids' school when they let the parents get away with running the program.
2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
... and you also said...
"There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure."
Well, having had several of my own kids (and close friends kids) having gone through multiple sports, having been involved with coordinating many large format national youth/teen tournament events (direct exposure to thousands of parents and coaches) and having been in the coaching circles for dozens of years, that has definitely not been my experience. Sure, there have been those coaches but there have been exponentially more crazy parent stories than crazy coach stories.
Look, the coach is in charge of the baseball program and the parent is in charge of the household. A coach can't allow a parent to come into his program and start dictating the way things should be just as a parent wouldn't allow a coach to come into his household and start dictating the way things should be. No one is sending a parent off to Siberia any more than a coach is held accountable for reasonable methods to his coaching. Each needs to know his place and his responsibility.
You mentioned a previous scenario where you had a parent come to home plate in the middle of a game because you pinch hit for his kid. This was right after you suggested that the notion of a crazy parent is fictional. That is a crazy parent. Not his place. No reason or excuse can make that remotely sane or OK. If a coach just "lets it go" with things like that (as you seem to suggest), he will quickly lose control of his household and ultimately, that becomes a crappy environment for the kids, which is the primary concern here. And, yes, a coach has to have enough confidence and enough structure to his environment that 40 or however many players (and their parents) will follow enough to be part of something positive and productive instead of a dramatic $hit show. That's what they are hired to do.
Buckeye 2015 posted:2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
It's the coach's job to win games...at least it used to be....now it seems like more and more it's a HS coach's job to keep everyone happy....players, parents, administrators, etc. When I played in the early 80's our junior high football coach would put pads on and run over us in practice...the guy was nuts....but we just thought "hey, he's just making us better". Not one person ever complained. I ran into him a couple years ago and mentioned it while his wife was standing next to him. She obviously had never heard the story. We all got a good laugh out of it and he said "can you imagine if a coach did that today?". 6-7 years ago, a group of HS girls basketball parents essentially got a very good coach ran out of the program because they complained that "she yelled too much". Keep in mind, some of these parents were friends of mine and their daughters were friends with my kids. These parents were complaining about the HS coach when their daughters were in 6th grade....and just kept ramping up the pressure to the point that the coach was let go. My daughter played for that coach a couple years earlier. My daughter at the time was one of the quietest girls you'd ever meet. I flat out asked her...."Does Coach #### yell too much". She said "dad, no, she yells...but it's just how she is...it's not like she's really being mean". I lost a lost of respect for those friends...and also the administration at my kids' school when they let the parents get away with running the program.
Well then... 'that parent' yells but it's just how he/she is... what's the difference?
Over nineteen consecutive years I coached sixty plus kiddie ball to 18u travel teams in baseball, softball and basketball. I spent thirteen years on the baseball/softball board, eighteen on the basketball board and six on the overall community youth sports board. I was commissioner of fourteen leagues. If it didn’t happen to me, it happened to a fellow coach or it came to board meetings via parents or coaches or league commissioners
The ugliest was when I didn’t allow a seven year old to play 8/9’ basketball who had somehow been sneaked illegally on to an 8/9 rec team as a six year old the previous year. Apparently, I was setting back a kid who was a future NBA star. His NBA dreams went down the drain when he didn’t make the freshman team.
The dad hacked the youth sports registration system. He sent out a blast email to thousands of people about the details of my divorce. Of course, none of what he emailed was true. Had it been I would have gone to jail.
A board member who was also legal counsel for our youth sports organization told the person he was going to be allowed supervised access to send a blast public apology along with why he did it. Otherwise, he (the lawyer) would offer his legal services free of charge to me.
Ironically, the kid became a D1 baseball player. The dad and I became good friends through LL about five years after the incident. Along the baseball journey we laughed about this incident.
cabbagedad posted:2020dad posted:I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever. But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?
... and you also said...
"There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure."
Well, having had several of my own kids (and close friends kids) having gone through multiple sports, having been involved with coordinating many large format national youth/teen tournament events (direct exposure to thousands of parents and coaches) and having been in the coaching circles for dozens of years, that has definitely not been my experience. Sure, there have been those coaches but there have been exponentially more crazy parent stories than crazy coach stories.
Look, the coach is in charge of the baseball program and the parent is in charge of the household. A coach can't allow a parent to come into his program and start dictating the way things should be just as a parent wouldn't allow a coach to come into his household and start dictating the way things should be. No one is sending a parent off to Siberia any more than a coach is held accountable for reasonable methods to his coaching. Each needs to know his place and his responsibility.
You mentioned a previous scenario where you had a parent come to home plate in the middle of a game because you pinch hit for his kid. This was right after you suggested that the notion of a crazy parent is fictional. That is a crazy parent. Not his place. No reason or excuse can make that remotely sane or OK. If a coach just "lets it go" with things like that (as you seem to suggest), he will quickly lose control of his household and ultimately, that becomes a crappy environment for the kids, which is the primary concern here. And, yes, a coach has to have enough confidence and enough structure to his environment that 40 or however many players (and their parents) will follow enough to be part of something positive and productive instead of a dramatic $hit show. That's what they are hired to do.
I think it's all about perception. If the coach cusses out all the kids and we say he is just doing his job... well then of course there will be exponentially more 'crazy' parents. But I think if we hold coaches and parents to the exact same standards it would flip flop.
Look I have been on all sides of this issue. I have for sure said/done things I regret as a coach AND a parent. I have been the target of the criticism. Most of it unfair but I am sure some earned. I always won. It didn't always justify my approach. As I get older I just feel like I have more perspective. You really don't have to be a giant ass to win. And no it is NOT acceptable for a coach to yell scream and demean in the name of controlling his house or winning. There really is a middle ground. Hopefully we can find it. Especially baseball which is NOT a game of emotion. Quite the opposite emotion can kill you. If you have an issue with a kid bench him. Remove him from the team if it's not fixable. But what possible reason could there be for screaming??? As for dealing with parents it's a big whatever if you ask me. They will be what they will be why would it matter?
2020dad wrote, "truth is the coaching profession breeds these attitudes. It is changing for sure but unfortunately now we get decent people with no passion or knowledge for the game!!"
I couldn't have said that any better.........and it has been a huge source of frustration for me and for others like me that know the game. My kids have played in 2 different 6A HS programs in Texas. The profile of the HC at each of these HSs was exactly the same. Benchwarmer in a weak HS program, attended a 2nd tier state university and got a PE degree & a teaching certificate, got hired by a large suburban school district, volunteered as an Asst. Baseball Coach, and advanced thru attrition as other coaches on staff left to pursue different opportunities. After 10 years both of them were Head Coach of their HS baseball programs. Both are very decent men. Neither know the game. Both are more concerned about keeping parents and administration happy than anything else. Both were insecure about having "baseball guys" around their program. And both approached the job in a "punch the time card" fashion. Never there early. Never stayed late to help a kid - cuz you cant teach what you don't know.
Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.
Wow, lot of stuff here. First, if a "hard azz coach goes off on your kid," remove your kid if you think it unjustified. Then, mount an effort to get the coach fired. The question was asked what to do about the crazy parent going off on the coach. Well, beware that that dumb coach might just respond in kind so be prepared. Personally, if you want to dish it out, while I wouldn't want to do it in front of the players, I'll respond in kind and won't back down from anyone. You asked what does it matter if a crazy parent does such and such. Do you know that they know that there are limits? Beware!
So, you want stories of crazy parents, I've coached HS for 33 years and I've seen it all. As many of you know, I've been the HC in 4 sports. For the most part, the parents I have dealt with have been exception but having said that, I've been attacked by a parent before. He hit me at least 8 times before I could get out from under him and get control over him. When I let him go, he came at me again. That didn't work out well for him. My crime? His son wasn't playing in a game. This was in basketball and some of you know, there are playing time limits for players and quarters. This young man was playing on 3 levels and was a freshman. Long story short, this dad had a restraining order keeping him away from his son and family and he was mentally unstable. Since he had a restraining order, he was not aware that his son was only going to play the 1st and 3rd quarters. He was promptly arrested. The worst example was something I mentioned here long ago. I had a dad who was always yelling and screaming at ... While we thought he might be drunk most of the time, he was outside the left field fence and in the parking lot. That was until the day he decided to come out on the field to get after his son. I helped him leave the field but had to do so in front of his son who he was trying to attack. When that young man got home, his dad was waiting for him with a butcher knife and tried to kill him. That dad went to prison and when those locked up with him found out what he did, well, he didn't live long.
Look, there are crazy no good coaches. There are crazy no good parents. There are many in between. The vast majority of both coaches and parents are fine people. If a coach is abusive, get that coach removed. However, know the difference. For parents, take off the rose colored glasses and see your son for what he really is whatever that is. Don't rationalize that it is the coach when you know deep down in your heart that your son doesn't have it.
adbono posted:
Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.
My son's high school coach is a decent man with a good baseball track record who cares about the boys he coaches, both as players and as men. He is low key. He likes to win, but I've never seen him raise his voice. Maybe an eyebrow. That's generally all it takes. I am grateful he is coaching my son at this point in his life.
I didn't mean to turn this thread to coach-bashing. Over the years, we have had mostly good experiences with coaches, and even the ones who weren't my favorites devoted many hours of their time to my son's teams. We have also used the not-so-good coaches (as we have the not-so-good teachers) to teach our son that he will have to learn to get the job done even when he is dealing with difficult or deficient personalities. While I don't condone screaming at or belittling players, at some point our sons have to figure out how to navigate rough waters, and my role as a high school parent generally (barring something really serious) is to support and counsel rather than intervene.
Here is my closing argument!
I love sports. I love coaching. I am now retired from it. But I would never close the door to coaching again. I am eternally grateful for the coaches who mentored me. Some great people. Some were always great and some went through some regretful moments like I did early in my career.
I also believe from the bottom of my heart that there are a great many life's lessons and advantages for kids who play team sports. Including how to deal with a maniac. I would not pull my kid from a team with a maniac coach unless of course it endangered him somehow. I like to think I teach my kids not to melt because some egocentric coach screams at him. However I also teach my kids to stick up for themselves and never allow themselves to be minimized or berated by anyone including a coach. However being kids puts them at a tremendous disadvantage and like most kids won't always stick up for themselves when they have to. That's where parents sometimes need to get involved.
I have also learned from this thread that maybe I was more well liked as a coach than I thought lol! Other than the dad meeting me at home plate I never experienced any of the things some other have shared. Or maybe I was just gifted with really good parents from really good schools. Maybe a little of both.
So in conclusion I agree with the old timers that players and parents need to be a little more thick skinned and not so soft. But I guess where I depart with some on here is I think the coaches should be held to the same standard. In fact really a higher standard. After all we have coaches who are more than happy to tell us how great they are and how tough they are. So then toughen up and don't worry so much about the parents. Sports are a no snowflake zone - for players, parents and coaches alike!
And I'm not joking about the testosterone crisis. If you don't already know about it do some research. That's what's causing a lot of this and the downfall of sports and manhood in general.
Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.
I’m sorry to hear this. That must be really tough on your son. Are you and your son still discussing the situation? Does Your son know how you feel about his playing time?
Not all coaches would react that way but as your case demonstrates probably not worth the risk.
Still, I wonder if that is really what the coach is doing? He could’ve just cut your kid outright. How many games into the season are you and can you see a way for your son to talk to the coach about what’s happening? Or has that ship sailed?
Its pretty devastating. He has been on the bench in some pretty cold weather. Still early- 4 scrimmage games in. The one game he went in at the top of the 6th and had his throwing hand in his pocket to keep it warm. Coach saw that and benched him because he didn’t “look ready”. I have talked to my son and told him not to give up, and make the most of the time given to him. Still it is already wearing him down. Season ends in May. When the league games start, I’m afraid he won’t play at all. The scrimmage games are going to be his only opportunity to show something, but with maybe 1 at bat and an inning, it’s hard to show really anything. My son does not know that I emailed the coach. He knows I met with him in person, but does not know the whole story. I don’t want to tell him, as it will only make things worse. Im glad he didn’t get cut, as he still gets practice every day, but he is starting to hate baseball. It breaks my heart.
I don't mean to pile on you, but as a coach the things you are saying don't help your son's case. If I send you on a tag, you should not know whether you are getting thrown out or not. You are not to be looking back so how would your son know he was going to get thrown out unless he was watching the fielder and/or ball which are not supposed to be done. If you come back, I'm probably pulling you right then.
I can relate to the coach in the other situation you named. I pulled my starting shortstop when he had his hand in his pocket while the pitcher was on the mound ready to pitch. So, I can relate to the coach in both situations.
I also disagree that a player can catch the wrath for a parent. I have sent players home in travel ball because of how parents acted or things they said. I also did not accept a great player because I did not want to deal with their dad so for the coach to keep your son is a plus. I would probably have cut him rather than deal with it. I know a lot of players that don't get offers in college because the coaches don't want to deal with the parents for two or four years.
He didn’t have him tagging up. He had him running home on contact. My son knew he had to tag up, but didn’t want to go against the coach. He also didn’t want to be out. The coach admitted to my son he made a mistake. I have not had contact with the coach before or since the email, so categorizing me as “that parent” may be a stretch, although I do see your point of view with the pocket thing. In any case, my son is caught in the middle of this mess. He is a quiet kid, and very polite so he will never complain to the coach, so this is agonizing to him. I am powerless, except to just be supportive to him and encourage him to keep trying. I will definitely not ever speak to the coach, although I did encourage my son to speak to him. He is both too shy and proud to do it (which is why I sent the email in the first place). It is what it is.
I think both you and your son have to continue to be patient. I understand the stress but you don’t have many options.
If the coach admitted he made the mistake, why did you suggest he's trying to make him look bad? HS is a 4 year marathon, not a sprint. Your son made the team and is getting early season action as a freshman. Be positive, have him keep working hard, if he does his time will come.
I've encouraged my son to talk to his coach, in the past, but not in the first month of his freshman year. I would just keep at it, keep his spirits up and focus on the positive and the things your son can control.
KTCOTB posted:Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.
I'm sorry to be the ass now as I know it doesn't help now but you didn't get "mixed opinions", every single person in this thread told you to not do it and you did it anyway.
Normally I'm not doing this but in that case I think it needs to be said because i think you are not unlikely to continue those things because deep down you still think you did the right thing.
I think he now just need to sit it out, continue to work hard and hope next year is a better year.
Also maybe go to the coach and apologize for getting involved. Tell him you don't expect him to change his opinion but you made a mistake getting involved into things that are not your business and it won't happen again in the future.
Maybe it will help or maybe not but at least if he goes to varsity you can have a fresh start.
But if you still think you did the right thing I fear you will do it to the next coach again and maybe even in college.
The last option would be to change to another school if you think it can't be repaired but then please do yourself and your son a favor and do a strict "stay out of baseball" policy for yourself.
I know you are not a bad person and I like you fight for your son but the discussion here shows that you are a very "enthusiastic" debater and it is not easy to have a constructive conversation with you. That is no knock against you as you are just very passionate and you have strong opinions but in some situations that can be detrimental and communcating with a HS or college coach (or an employer...) is one of those situations.
I'm sorry if this seems like beating the dead horse but I think it needed to be said as not making a JV team is not the end of the world and next year is a new year (maybe he can even right the ship this year) but continuing to do this will be very bad especially if your son starts to adopt some of your attitudes which seems to be the case considering some comments I read here.
Nothing is lost yet but I strongly recommend seeing this as a chance to learn and growth for both of you and not getting bitter and develope an attitude like anyone but me is an idiot and wants to hold me down.
I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.
CTBBALLDAD, I think you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what we plan to do.
Thanks KTCOTB for being willing to come back and share. That takes courage to admit mistakes, esp with the aim of helping other parents learn from your mistake. I appreciate it.
The one thing I want to caution you about is the danger that you will see all of the coach's action in a negative light, even if it's not reality. The baserunning issue from 3rd base was confusing. Based on your initial post, we all thought it was a SC and the coach got mad at him for not running hard all the way home. When you clarified that the coach sent him w/o tagging up, and the coach admitted he was wrong, my first thought was "what's the big deal then?". The coach wanted your son to look bad but then he admitted he was wrong? It doesn't compute.
“understanding that he would have limited playing time”
I’ve never heard of this except seniors who get uniforms for sticking it out. Everyone else is told their role. Non starters are told what they have to improve to earn more playing time.
“my son has not gotten more than one at bat”
It’s important to always be physically and mentally ready. A baseball future can change on one at bat, one situation on the basepaths, one play in the field, hustle and/or proper attitude.
”I think this coach is out to embarrass my son.”
I’m not going to say this never happens. It rarely happens. It’s not worth the effort for the coach. It’s easier to cut the player. There might be a message here. Your son is good enough to be on the team. But, due to prior experience let’s wait and see how dad handles his son not playing much before he plays more. How your son and you handle the current situation could be determining whether the slate gets cleaned.
KTCOTB posted:I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.
Yes, i might have confused you with the thread starter, sorry for that. Here were multiple parents in this thread debating the same thing (all were told to not do it).
I wish the coach had told my son what to work on to get more playing time. I wish he had told me when I met with him last year. He told me “he needs to be more confident”. I told him “ I can’t teach him confidence”. To that he replied, “well if you work with him and he gets better, he will be more confident”. This coach has had my son since 7th grade. I want to be an optimist and hope that he is seeing how we handle things, and there is no bad intentions on his part. I suppose I am playing devils advocate. But little things in such a short period of time add up in my head: the running home on a fly ball thing, benching him for having his hand in his pocket, and even yesterday, when my son grounded out with men on 2nd and 3rd, and I shook my head in disappointment. As the coach walked to the dugout I could see an ear to ear smile on his face. He was looking straight in my direction. Maybe this is all just conspiracy theories, I really hope so. Again, this will remain anonymous, no complaints directly to anyone affiliated with my son’s school, and I’ll see how it plays out.
You will remain anonymous?
“Hey coach! Guess what KT’s father said about you on a baseball discussion board!”
One thing a lot of posters on this board have advised their sons about how they carry themselves is ... Always act as if someone is watching. Because you never know.
I just want to say one thing: I have seen a whole lot of parents of a whole lot of players on a whole lot of teams who would give up a lot to see their sons get one AB per game. That’s not a lot, but it’s much more than most subs get, and it’s enough of an opportunity to create an impression and even an impact.
That’s what you should emphasize to your son, IMO.
Most of the time, the players who don't play as much simply don't work as hard as the starters. I will allow that, especially as the funnel narrows at the higher levels, everybody works hard and there may be different criteria including talent or giving opportunities to an upperclassman on a college team over a freshman etc...
Anyways, this is a JV team. You mean to tell me if this kid took 50 Grounders a day and an extra hour of BP a day, away from team practice, and lifted weights 4-5 days a week and worked on sprinting every other day, and did band work & long toss etc, that he couldn't take a spot in the JV starting lineup?!?!? 99 times out of 100, the reality is that the kid doesn't really care enough to work that hard & especially doesn't love the game enough to put that much time in it. And there's nothing wrong with that, really
But the disconnect happens when the parents think the kid is entitled to playing time. He isn't.
Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season.
KTCOTB posted:Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season.
By the time my kids got to high school they decided they wanted to play college baseball/softball. They knew the commitment was a year round, at least five days per week effort of improving skills and physical development. They also played other high school sports. One graduated in the top 10% of the class. The other in the top 3%.
When they got to college baseball/softball they were very aware they had two jobs. Time management and sacrifice would be required. Both were STEM majors in college. One had two minors.
My daughter attended an elite law school. She said after what she put herself through in high school and college law school was easy. As a lawyer my daughter works her tail off. Dinner is just a break in the day. But she said she’s been working her tail off to be the best for so long it seems normal.
My kids decided early what they wanted, knew it wouldn’t be easy, committed and followed through. This story isn’t that special except to me as it’s my kids. There are plenty of other posters on this site with kids with the same story.
KTCOTB,
Yeah, thanks for coming back around with this. I think many parents agonize a bit when trying to figure out how to "help" our kids with these situations. And, sometimes, we can drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out all the surrounding circumstances that may contribute to the opportunities our kids get or don't get.
Question for you - you said your son made the team with the understanding that he would get minimal playing time. What was the rationale behind that? Was it just where he seemed to fall on the depth chart at the time when the teams were selected? If so, it would certainly not be out of the ordinary for "player #12", for example, to be slated for 1-2 innings and 1 AB per game as the goal and adjust situationally. That is similar to what we tried to do with our JV guys who were not currently seen as one of the "best 9" at a given time...
You were an athlete at at least a fairly high level, you acknowledge your son hasn't received a lot of playing time for a few years. You acknowledge he has a lack of confidence and said he gets more playing time in football. You wrote the letter but apologized immediately afterward and assured the coach you would not be in the way going forward (therefore, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal by now, IMO). Like ATLNON, I read your scenarios where you feel your son is being slighted due to "the letter" and, from a distance anyway, I'm just not convinced there is anything there. I could certainly be wrong and will be interested to hear how things evolve. Meanwhile, I would just continue having your son focus on working hard and working his way up the ladder. You know the routine. Control what you can control. Outwork and outhustle the other guy. When you, as a former athlete, can see clearly that his skill set has surpassed the rest of the group on a consistent basis, and he is still getting left out, then it may be time to figure out alternative actions. But, meanwhile, try not to look for things to read into.
Thanks again guys for all of your replies. I appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback. Gives me a better perspective on things.
I don't think the coach hates your son as much as you are making him out to. Truthfully it seems like you don't like the coach and are using it to defend your son. I think bringing his scrimmage record into question supports that theory.
Either way, the best thing you can do is work with your son and make him better. If extra reps, cage time, and lifting is going to make him burnt out, he was never going to last anyway.
The best thing your son can do is go up to the coach and say - Hey I'm not playing, I don't like sitting and don't want to be in the same situation moving forward. Where do I need to improve the most, what should I be working on to get better and how can I help contribute now?
He might tell you his role is to pinch run, he might say he can contribute by chasing foul balls and filling up water bottles. You might not like the answer, but what you do with that information is up to you guys. It should be an honest and frank conversation. And if it is the honest answer. Do it. Throw harder, more consistent at the plate, better footwork. Don't question it, don't argue it, don't bring it up again. Just do it. If it improves this season maybe he gets more playing time. If not he is only a freshman and has a year to fix the problems.
This is a conversation your son needs to have. The only dialogue you should have with the coach moving forward is small talk in passing and any injury problems.
PABaseball posted:I don't think the coach hates your son as much as you are making him out to. Truthfully it seems like you don't like the coach and are using it to defend your son. I think bringing his scrimmage record into question supports that theory.
Either way, the best thing you can do is work with your son and make him better. If extra reps, cage time, and lifting is going to make him burnt out, he was never going to last anyway.
The best thing your son can do is go up to the coach and say - Hey I'm not playing, I don't like sitting and don't want to be in the same situation moving forward. Where do I need to improve the most, what should I be working on to get better and how can I help contribute now?
He might tell you his role is to pinch run, he might say he can contribute by chasing foul balls and filling up water bottles. You might not like the answer, but what you do with that information is up to you guys. It should be an honest and frank conversation. And if it is the honest answer. Do it. Throw harder, more consistent at the plate, better footwork. Don't question it, don't argue it, don't bring it up again. Just do it. If it improves this season maybe he gets more playing time. If not he is only a freshman and has a year to fix the problems.
This is a conversation your son needs to have. The only dialogue you should have with the coach moving forward is small talk in passing and any injury problems.
In the word of Elanor Roosevelt " You wouldn't worry what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do"
I highly doubt your son is being punished for your interactions with the coach.
My MO through my son's HS/Travel baseball career was to simply thank them at the beginning and end of each season for their efforts. That was the extent of my communication. There was often much more i wanted to say, but I believed part of my son's baseball experience was to learn how to deal with his "boss"...........That is all.
CaCO3Girl posted:Chico Escuela posted:I don't think anybody has pitching-related injuries completely figured out, but I do think ASMI and Dr. Andrews are as good anybody (and better than most). And they definitely say sliders aren't for younger kids:
http://www.andrewsinstitute.co...Prevention/Baseball/
http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/risk-factors/
Do folks here have a different take?
My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.
As to different takes, yup.
https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html
http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention
Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave. My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.
My son, too. He tried to throw a curve, but instead of the big, looping curve that most kids have it was a tight little break, with the dot.
Oh, and the thinking has changed on what damages arms. Used to be that breaking pitches were blamed. Now it's velo, bad mechanics, and lack of arm rest.
Anyway, back to evil HS coaches.
57special posted:...Anyway, back to evil HS coaches.
… yeah, those b@stards!! 
KTCOTB, I apologize. I read it to say that the coach sent him home on the tag and he went halfway and thought he would get thrown out so he came back. If the coach apologized, that is a big thing. We as adults don't rarely do that to teenagers. I still hold to the hand in the pocket thing but I did it to teach him a lesson and make a point to my team. If we are out there, no matter how cold or rainy or hot, we must be ready to play or someone can take your spot who is. never did it to show up that kid just to help him understand. The smile may have been anything or it could have been that is why he is not playing more because he couldn't get the hit when he needed to. But you also have to know it may have been something totally different.
Yes, there are kids who do all the things above and beyond. My son hits almost every day by himself off the tee and hits on the field 3-4 days a week at night after practice. He works out on his own and does his own stuff after practice. Always has but it takes a lot of determination and drive because he wants baseball to be his future. Not for everyone.
But the same way some of you talk about grades are the driving force for your kid, baseball is the driving force for my kid. He spends time with his coaches when he doesn't have to during the summer and even of other teams to pick their brains. He talked for 30 minutes with the opposing coach, pro coach/scout, at Jupiter to ask why he did certain things. His goal is to be a college or pro coach after baseball is done so baseball is his future.
KTCOTB posted:Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season.
I have tried to stay out of this. I can't! First, I doubt that the coach gives you the time of day and cares at all about that contact you had with him. If so, he has put you in one category but, I'd believe that your son has not been punished for the sins of the parent. Please forgive me but you are displaying incredible paranoia and I'd suggest that this is influencing your son. Also, it appears to me that you are looking for excuses as to why your son is losing interest in games and not reasons that are pulling him away from the game. Therefore, blame the coach. In fact, set it up so that you have that way out when discussing your son and baseball by saying that your son had an evil coach who punished your child for what you did.
You asked about the number of kids out there doing extra. I'd suggest that there are thousands. My kid did all of that and more and was also in every AP class she could take. In saying this, she didn't have to be forced to do it and truly loved doing it. In fact, she played both softball and golf for me. She would leave a varsity golf match and my wife would drive her to her TB games or practices. She was not special. Look, sit down with your son. Have a discussion with him and ask him if he has lost his love for the game and if he really wants to stop playing. In reading through some of your posts, I believe he has but might now want to quit due to wanting to please you. If he wants to keep playing, let him know you support him and ask him to be honest about his efforts when compared to his teammates. The coach can not be a factor here as a scapegoat for all of your son's ills. JMHO!
There are more factors at play, yes. And you are probably right- my son does not love baseball anymore. Ask yourself this though, if you continuously felt beat down doing something that you enjoyed, would you still enjoy it? Most people would probably say no. When something enjoyable becomes miserable and pointless, it’s hard to stay engaged. Still he plays on- going to practices, lessons, clinics. Why? Because while it is not the sport he once loved, it is still worth it to play. The alternative is to play video games, and hang out with kids who vape. No thanks. There are kids more talented and less talented than my son getting plenty of playing time. He sees that. And when the coach tells him “good contact” on a check swing weak groundout to 1st, it actually hurts his feelings, because he knows that the coach thinks he is garbage. His words, not mine. Maybe paranoia, but maybe there is something there too. Whatever happens, he is not a quitter, and I will not encourage him to quit, given the alternatives.
KTCOTB posted:Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season.
Yes, my kid did this kind of extra “work”. Also, it was a 45-60+ min drive each way. He often did his homework in the car while we were driving him there. I will say tho that not many other freshman/JV/Varsity kids in the program did this. Son had that D1 goal. Not every HS baseball player has aspirations of playing past high school.
What I see unfolding I’ve seen many times before in sports and work. A person believes they’ve been wronged because they put in the effort. They don’t grasp how many others are putting in the EFFORT. The extra EFFORT often involves sacrifices others aren’t willing to make. Then, the others declare it’s unfair when they don’t get ahead.
There is no mystery to playing time. There are no grudges against parents or players. High school coaches play the kids that help them WIN games. Period. Now, can a player piss off a coach ? sure. But a coach doesn't hold on to that too long. Maybe a few days. But once again the bottom line is they play the kids that help them WIN. It's the same in college.
If a kid is unhappy about playing time he needs to go to the coach ( never the parent ) and ask him a simple question ' What do I have to do to get into the line up? ' At that point most coaches will tell them exactly what they need to do. And more times than not it's generally the same answer. If they're a position player , it's going to be ' You need to hit the ball' and if they're a pitcher its gonna be ' You need to get outs'
If your son is a position player and he doesn't hit, he will sit. If your son is a pitcher and he doesn't get outs or throw strikes he will not get innings. It's that simple.
The good news is that if a player does in fact speak to the coach then goes off and improves his swing w/ a private hitting instructor or a pitcher develops a better delivery or a new pitch via a private pitching coach , they have every right to go to the coach later and say ' Coach can you watch my BP I've figured some stuff out" or " Coach can you come watch my pen, I figured a couple of things out'
Lastly , Parents should NEVER talk about playing time with the Coach. There are only really 3 times a parent should speak to a coach
1) Fundraising
2) Player Health / Injury/ Arm care ( pitcher )
3) Academic issues
Everything else that happens on the baseball field that doesn't involve the aforementioned is none of your business
Typical advice above and good, but it does not fit everyone's situation. My sons whole high school team was told if you want to play you have to hit. He has played 3 years now of his five and has lead his team in hits avg and other offensive stats every year. He was runner up for mvp on the freshman team, mvp on jv and in the running again for mvp this year on jv. He has never been asked to move up a level during a season while many others have and were later dropped back down for poor play. His first year coach told him the second year that he did not like him, and from the looks of it, I think he still feels the same way. My son was not put on Varsity at the beginning of this year, but he has been killing it on JV batting clean up and playing the first 3 innings in rf. He is always the first to get rotated out of the lineup while he is the most experience at the jv level on the team. Others play the entire time and never sit. I mean never, even when we are winning by 18 or if the player is 0 for 7 with 5 k's in a row, he will still play cf and leadoff every time and be asked to move up to Varsity as a freshman batting .287 on the jv team. We have 3 players batting close to .500 now with my son leading the way. This coaching staff has lost a few good players because they were treated the same bad way, while they out played most of the others. My son and one other right now are the last ones I see getting strange treatment while doing great. I think they both will stick it out though. The coach has said that he has already made up his mind for the varsity roster going in to region play and playoffs, but this week he will pick a few to dress out and practice with varsity. I don't think my son will be picked again. Coaches don't always pick the best to win. You can tell by the lineup and stats. Coaches have also done things to players during a game to make them look bad. Tie game last inning no outs, fastest runner on 1st has the most steals on the team 21. The catcher has thrown no one out all day, he doesn't have the arm. Man on first never gets the steal sign after 5 pitches he gets hit and run. Batter hits into double play. Next batter gets out game over. Was the coach dumb, didn't want to win, or holding a grudge against my son. This was the last game of the season against our tuffest opponent. My son longs for summer ball, real baseball he says. Playing for real coaches and facing competitive pitchers.
Perception is a powerful force.
I once had a team that was not the most talented kids but ones who love to play. Two times we were winning by a run with two outs in the bottom of the 7th against highly ranked teams. Being a team that, at the time lost more than we won, we were so pumped to be in that situation. Other teams came over to the field and watch. Both times the same player missed a ground ball between his legs and we lost. I'm not one who believes that a game is lost on one play, but my "perception" of that player was he can't handle pressure.
In high school I had a friend who was a little cocky and lazy. Coaches were always on his but. One day he told me that he was getting tired of how the coaches acted towards him. I had a heart to heart talk with him. Told him he the coaches perception of him was a lazy, cocky average player. Basically told him he needed to work harder in practice and shut his mouth. He listened, it took awhile but the coaches did change the way they acted towards him. He changed their perception of him.
We grew tired of the games my son's old coach played. He would say he loved dual sport athletes but would penalize my son for missing out of season baseball practice for in season swim practice. I talked to the coach and made sure we were on the same page in regard to practices. Then he would get on to my son for missing baseball practice because he had swim.
Also when practices did start they would get the players out of the one hour study hall after about 15 minutes and they would practice until 730 to 8 pm. So how do you have time to work getting better outside of practice. Oh, no food until he got home after 8pm. Then practice on Saturday from 10am until just after dark with a short junk food run for lunch.
Son started hating to go to practice. We pulled him. He did not have any say. His grades were slipping and things he did well in school started to suffer. He is still working to bring up one of his grades that took the biggest hit. Sometimes it just ain't worth it. He will get farther with great grades than he will playing baseball.
My son is in a similar boat but he attends a stem program at a different campus and he is the only baseball player that does. "He is one of those kids" they say. He is also one of the few travel ball players and they all get a hard time from the coach. The coach says in a speech that hey are student athletes and the student part comes first, however my son has been late to practice because of the stem program and he penalized for it. My son even let the coach know beforehand that the bus was going to be late because they were at a college all day and behind a traffic accident on the way home. Coach doesn't understand that my son has more homework than the rest of the team either. We had a conference with his teachers because his high grades started to slip a few points, they thought that baseball was taking up too much of his time. To be fair stem and baseball take all of his time.
BBDAD98,
I've been in your shoes twice. My advice would be to continue to focus on academics and take the hit from the high school coach for the Spring then re-focus on travel baseball in the summer when he presumably is not burning the candle on both ends. If your son is fortunate to play in college, he may be possibly dealing with the same challenges on a larger scale, but possibly with a program and a coach that you've selected.
JMO. Good luck.
StrainedOblique posted:There is no mystery to playing time. There are no grudges against parents or players. High school coaches play the kids that help them WIN games. Period. Now, can a player piss off a coach ? sure. But a coach doesn't hold on to that too long. Maybe a few days. But once again the bottom line is they play the kids that help them WIN. It's the same in college.
If a kid is unhappy about playing time he needs to go to the coach ( never the parent ) and ask him a simple question ' What do I have to do to get into the line up? ' At that point most coaches will tell them exactly what they need to do. And more times than not it's generally the same answer. If they're a position player , it's going to be ' You need to hit the ball' and if they're a pitcher its gonna be ' You need to get outs'
If your son is a position player and he doesn't hit, he will sit. If your son is a pitcher and he doesn't get outs or throw strikes he will not get innings. It's that simple.
The good news is that if a player does in fact speak to the coach then goes off and improves his swing w/ a private hitting instructor or a pitcher develops a better delivery or a new pitch via a private pitching coach , they have every right to go to the coach later and say ' Coach can you watch my BP I've figured some stuff out" or " Coach can you come watch my pen, I figured a couple of things out'
Lastly , Parents should NEVER talk about playing time with the Coach. There are only really 3 times a parent should speak to a coach
1) Fundraising
2) Player Health / Injury/ Arm care ( pitcher )
3) Academic issues
Everything else that happens on the baseball field that doesn't involve the aforementioned is none of your business
IMO you have identified a number of things that are wrong with most HS baseball programs. Not sure that was your intention but nonetheless.....
First of all, grudges ARE held against certain players & parents. To say that they aren't is either naïve or disingenuous.
My contention is that part of the job of being a HS baseball coach is to teach your kids how to be better baseball players. A HS baseball coach should be knowledgeable enough about the game he is coaching to help a kid improve his hitting, pitching, baserunning, fielding, throwing, etc. Maybe not all of those things but at least some of them. If he isn't he shouldn't be coaching baseball. I think your depiction of the HS coach telling a player to "go see a private instructor and figure it out" is accurate. But its also a cop out.
I also think (in many cases) there is way too emphasis on fundraising. If parents are pressured to raise money for (what they are told to be) the betterment of the program they should have a voice in how that money is spent. Sometimes an additional coach would benefit the program more than a new outfield fence.
I don't advocate parents getting involved with their kid's issues with a HS baseball coach - especially about playing time. That battle is for the kid to fight. But everyday I see HS baseball coaches putting kids on the field for all the wrong reasons. They cave in to social & political pressure from booster club, parents, administration, etc. Seems to happen more in baseball than other HS sports.
Keep in mind that I don't even have a HS dog in this hunt. These are just my observations (and my personal experience) over the past 8 years.
Coaches don’t randomly select a victim for the season. If a kid doesn’t play he either doesn’t have the talent, the coach has the perception in the long run another player will be better, displayed attitude in practice, has grade issues or citizenship issues in school.
As a parent I heard stories of why the coach doesn’t play my kid for eight years and twenty-one seasons of six high school sports. In every case the kid fell into one of the situations I listed. Often the parent isn’t getting the straight scoop from the kid. The parent is unaware of things that go on at practice, in the locker room or in school.
When I played high school ball I didn’t understand a couple of situations. One of my friend’s parents said it was because the coach is Irish Catholic and favors Irish Catholic players. Maybe it was possible in the 70’s. I’m Jewish and took a lot of crap including from coaches. It didn’t keep me from starting in three sports for three years. Even anti Semite coaches want to win.
At the end of the day if you are going to let a coach break you mentally, you were never going anywhere in the sport. Whether that means college baseball or just being a reliable varsity player. You can have all the talent in the world, but the truth is none of your teammates are going to want you on the field in the last inning if you let something as small as an angry coach discourage you. People tend to forget that there is a mental aspect to sports. HS sports are fun, but they're also competitive, it isn't supposed to be a feel good environment.
You will get nods and a lot of agreement from other parents when you tell them he's not starting or quit because the coach doesn't know what he's doing, but the truth is they are all rolling their eyes in the back of their heads. People can pick apart coaches all they want, but I'm sure that coach can pick apart something your kid doesn't do well to justify his decisions. Do we really want coaches to change what they are doing so one player can be encouraged a little more? Everybody (including starters) having problems with a coach is a coaching problem. One or two parents having a problem with a coach is a them problem.
Season update from That Baseball Dad. I am really not bad but some of you think so. Any way my son had another great season of play. He was allowed to bat around cleanup and sometimes cleanup and play the first 3 innings every JV game. He was a leader in stats but not the top overall avg for the season. He batted very close to .500 avg, high .700 slg with the most RBIs and second most runs. He was called up to dress out with Varsity the remainder of the season. He started once and played 7 innings total. He had the chance several times to show off his arm in RF throwing people out at 2nd and throwing to 3rd to hold the runner. He made two diving/sliding plays. Batting he was almost perfect on being productive 100% QABs, all line drives to the gaps and was quickly gaining on the total number of hits the Senior had that played RF all season long. The starting RF also had no arm or accuracy. Others that my son had out preformed this year and previous years were called up to Varsity before him again, but at least this time by miracle he was going to get some sort of shot. These other kids that got called up, out of the 5 only one worked out as a true Varsity starter. The rest were sitting the bench after mid way of the season. We had 3 players quit Varsity this year, two I know were good and one I didn't know, but he was in the local news paper about being a player to watch, but he sat the bench and quit 7 games in. The other two who will play college ball if they choose to (I know they have offers) did not play as much as they wanted and seemed to be pulled out first instead of someone else who was younger and or not doing as well. Seemed weird. Never before had I seen anybody quit baseball at this school that so many others try to move to and make this team. At my son's end of the year meeting with the coaches, They told him he was a great hitter with good mechanics and a great eye at the plate. They mentioned that he must have great pitch recognition because they never saw him swing at a bad pitch. They also told him that he was a great right fielder and that they had 3 spots open for next year and they thought he could fill one of those roles every game next year. They also stated that they did not know he was that good of a player. All the things they said are great, but understand also how frustrating it is to hear that they didn't pay any attention to his prior performances even when he was MVP or his perfect game stats, LOL. I am his dad and many if not all would say I am bias, but he has been this good the whole time, he did not get his swing or eagle eye this year. He has always been rock solid in the outfield almost no errors ever. None this year or last year. The coaches might have turned the corner this year, but I still stand by all of my previous statements that they just don't know what they are doing and I know one does not like my son because that coach said so last year.Most agree If a coach wants to win and keep his job they will play the best, but lets be honest that's not always the case. So glad travel ball will be here soon.
“He started once and played 7 innings total. He had the chance several times to show off his arm in RF throwing people out at 2nd and throwing to 3rd to hold the runner. He made two diving/sliding plays. Batting he was almost perfect on being productive 100% QABs, all line drives to the gaps and was quickly gaining on the total number of hits the Senior had that played RF all season long.”
All in seven innings! Wow! And the Army brags they do more by noon than most people do in a day. It appears your son put forth a Herculean, all state effort in seven innings!
For a coach who is a jerk he was more complimentary of your son over seven innings of play than my son’s good coach was over an entire all-everything career.
Bbdad, I hope your plans for summer go well. Sounds like your kid is a good player and needs to be seen by college coaches. He’s gonna be a senior, right? Good luck!
Saw this on twitter last week, "If you have a problem with your kid's HS coach, check these boxes before complaining:
- Does my kid spend 10 hrs/week doing extra work?
- Does my son pound the weights?
- Does my son want this as bad as me?
- Does my son compete in practice?"
I have a son who is similar to some of yours-- the dreaded "well-rounded." We are fortunate to have a high school coach who supports him being involved in other things. However, there is an opportunity cost to everything--there are only so many hours in the day. While he is off doing other things, his teammates--school and summer--are putting in the grind.
My advice is to enjoy what little time you have watching your kid play.
For what it is worth...
On the opposite side of the coin, those of us who as parents and players are dedicated to baseball, it is our thing, do not understand the well-rounded. Many people say they want to be get a D1 scholarship but they are not willing to invest everything to get it. I have had parents tell me for years now that my kids didn't get the opportunity to be a kid since they are devoted to baseball. My two youngest played all summer for four years during high school to get where they were/are. They did not hang out with their friends or go to the beach unless there was a tournament there and then baseball came before everything else. They do not hang out on the weekends because they are usually playing or working out. I think it takes both in high school to make it work. My 2019 made Beta Club and Honor Roll but baseball was still first for him. I know some of you will disagree with that but his goal is to play pro ball or coach pro/college not be an engineer or doctor. We had a (voluntary) practice last weekend getting ready for playoffs and several chose not to be there and we could not understand that. How could you not be at practice the day before playoffs start? But that is what makes high school, high school. Someone asked my son what he most looked forward to about going to college and his answer was playing with guys who are all in for baseball. That is why many of us look so forward to summer ball. Playing with players and families who are all in. It takes all kinds in this world but you must understand if you are not "all in" that those families who are don't get you like you don't get them. My wife and I will not have baseball this summer for the first time in 21 years since 2019 will only play June before starting college and others are long past it. I reckon I will go watch my friend's kids play or maybe take a vacation that doesn't include baseball, not sure what that is.
Pitching Fan I get you. But I would only add “Not exclusive to D1 but simply a college baseball player.” There are many who invest just as much sometimes more just to have the opportunity to play somewhere, anywhere.
I agree Coach May. I just hear it from people who say they want to play D1 but I agree that it is college ball in general at a high level.
c4dad posted:Saw this on twitter last week, "If you have a problem with your kid's HS coach, check these boxes before complaining:
- Does my kid spend 10 hrs/week doing extra work?
- Does my son pound the weights?
- Does my son want this as bad as me?
- Does my son compete in practice?"
I have a son who is similar to some of yours-- the dreaded "well-rounded." We are fortunate to have a high school coach who supports him being involved in other things. However, there is an opportunity cost to everything--there are only so many hours in the day. While he is off doing other things, his teammates--school and summer--are putting in the grind.
My advice is to enjoy what little time you have watching your kid play.
For what it is worth...
There’s nothing to be dreaded about being well rounded. There are plenty of posters present and past on this board and parents who have never heard of this board with kids who excelled in multiple sports, were top students and became D1 athletes in the sport they chose to make the focus.
Sure, these kids had to make some choices along the way. Some sacrifices had to be made. But it’s part of life. Choices and sacrifices don’t stop when a person decides getting a second degree at night and on weekends while working during the day is beneficial to their career. Choices and sacrifices certainly don’t stop when you have kids.
When college recruiting started I informed my kids the decision would be 70% academic and 30% athletic. I was not going to allow them to sacrifice academics. After it was all over I asked my kids some questions about the journey. Do you believe I steered you towards baseball/softball? When the answer was yes I asked if they had any regrets. I asked if they made sacrifices and would they do it again.
They didn’t regret me steering them towards baseball/softball. They played other sports through high school. There were other options for college sports had they chose to focus and pursue them. They recognized they made sacrifices in the summer during high school and college. They said they would do it all over again.
When each one graduated from college they came home and went to the beach for the summer to hangout and work part time jobs. My son said it best. “I’m going to hang out and drink a few beers. In my more lucid moments I’ll build a job search plan.” I figured my kids had earned this.
“He started once and played 7 innings total. He had the chance several times to show off his arm in RF throwing people out at 2nd and throwing to 3rd to hold the runner. He made two diving/sliding plays. Batting he was almost perfect on being productive 100% QABs, all line drives to the gaps and was quickly gaining on the total number of hits the Senior had that played RF all season long.”
All in seven innings! Wow! And the Army brags they do more by noon than most people do in a day. It appears your son put forth a Herculean, all state effort in seven innings!
For a coach who is a jerk he was more complimentary of your son over seven innings of play than my son’s good coach was over an entire all-everything career.
RJM, My son played all of the JV season, in 3 years this was the first year he was allowed to start in the field. He was mostly used as a DH prior to this season and would rarely play the field and even if he was in the lineup and on the field he was without a doubt always pulled first to sit. He has lead the team in offense every year and even won an mvp. He is a great outfielder, and that is something the coaches did not know until they actually let him play in the field. This year for JV he batted high 400 avg and slg a high 700, last year was about the same and the year before. At summer ball Perfect Game (were he played up two age levels) he lead his team and varsity team mates in stats and he started every game with his varsity team mates. This year at the end of JV he moved up to varsity, my son batted 7 times, and played RF 7 times, he had 4 line drive hits (2 doubles), one line drive out and 2 walks. The current senior right fielder had 12 total hits for the whole season. My son did great in right field getting 2 of the 3 outs in two innings. He threw a player out who tried for 2nd after hitting the ball down the line and to the side fence. he made one diving catch and one sliding catch, he did make a great throw to 3rd to hold the runner( hard throw on a line). The last time the senior threw to 3rd it went 20 feet high over the fence at 3rd. I am not picking on the senior, he is a good guy, just not a top 12 player in the program.
So RJM, my son made the most of the balls hit to him and pitched to him every inning. I have stated on here for 2 or 3 years now that my son plays hard and gets good results, and if a coach wants to win, why do they choose not to play certain players. I am no fortune teller but as he has went along he has shown year after year that he can play at that level and do it well. We like the compliments from the coaches but how blind do you have to be to make a statement that they didn't know he could hit so well! Playing RF I understand, (sort of) they never let him play the field, but now they think he is great at it.
Saw this on twitter last week, "If you have a problem with your kid's HS coach, check these boxes before complaining:
- Does my kid spend 10 hrs/week doing extra work?
- Yes he works with me and has lessons, HS practice gets in the way.
- Does my son pound the weights?
- Yes he works out everyday at school and has made great gains, the football coach brags on him.
- Does my son want this as bad as me?
- We have had the conversation about if he wanted to quit any year. He has stressed to me that he wants to play as high as he can.
- Does my son compete in practice?" I hope so, I quit going to HS practices the coaches just confuse me. He works very hard a travel ball practice.
His attitude is good, he has manners, he is top 2 in grades on the team and he is the only player that is in STEM. He hustles on and off the field, tries to finish his conditioning first to show how hard he works.
my youngest is similar, he is pretty solid player who works hard and has good attitude...his problem is his team is very good, very deep and he honestly is not as good as some of the kids he is competing with. if he was on some other teams he may have a different role.
just saying but maybe your son isn't as good as you think he might be...
I have been told by other travel dads that my son would have started Varsity as a freshman on their son's HS team, and have asked us to move him. Our HS has good records but fails to finish the season strong when the level of competition increases and this is due to the players on the field and the coaching strategy during the game. My son has proven to be a solid player, whether you see it or the HS coach sees it. I am not saying he is Bryce Harper, I am saying he is better than the average HS player starting at Varsity. He has already been graded by scouts last year as above average and capable of playing at the next level and his consistent stats that the scouts were not even aware of also back them up. He has worked hard to do the little things correct. His swing is successful because it stays in the zone longer than most peoples at this level. He hits line drives to all fields. A scout told him to his face that he had an exceptional swing and that was the same swing he tries to teach his players at the college level. The scout watched him hit 10 pitches and came to that conclusion. My son was in 8th grade that year and the coach was from a top 10 college program. He warms up in a way that impresses others, each throw matters. Dads and other coaches have walked over to me and commented on that. One dad was thankful that his son was my sons throwing partner because he and his son like how serious he is. My son sprints to his position and he is fast so it is obvious that he got there before the others that jog. He may not be as good as I think, but he is good and when people look and know about baseball they appreciate what he brings to the teams he is on. I taught him to warm up like it matters, I taught him to hustle on the field, I worked on his swing, I worked on his throws from the field, I hit all the fly balls to him so he can dive and slide to catch them, my son has a great work ethic and we work great together. He practices like this on purpose and I don't see any of our HS coaches coaching like this or taking notice of his players who practice like this. That's why I can't bear to watch practice. I stay away, I don't say anything, I just take it all in and think how will this make my son a better player and me a better coach to my kids and others I coach. I am on here to vent. Maybe that's wrong, maybe I'm that dad. If I could pick something for anyone to learn from this, it might be sometimes coaches just suck,(pick a reason) do the small things right, out work everyone, and the coach might still suck, but if you love the game you know your not doing it for the coach you are doing it for the game. Best of luck to the boys in the playoffs and the ones headed to summer ball.
You refer to his spot in the order as "cleanup or around cleanup."
That is all I need to know.
Sounds like your son plays travel ball in the summer and has done PG events. Also sounds like he's a junior? Is he getting attention from colleges? Does he want to play in college and at what level?
JCG posted:Sounds like your son plays travel ball in the summer and has done PG events. Also sounds like he's a junior? Is he getting attention from colleges? Does he want to play in college and at what level?
High School = school spirit, camaraderie, memories, Friendships and teamwork
Summer Ball = Competition and Expsoure (and some of the above)
If your goal is to play at the next level you need to get it done over the summer. Play at the highest level against top national players in front of college and pro scouts.
Nobody at the next level cares about how you did during school ball....in my son's experience his high school stats/career never came up while being recruited.
His high school career had ups and downs, but that is the nature of the beast...talent always doesn't play at that level...but it doesn't matter if your goal is next level...if college is the goal......summer matters.
High School ball is a place to learn how to be a part of a team, be the best teammate you can be, hopefully win some games and make some memories and friendships....its not a place to point fingers and look for scape goats.
Summer Ball will ultimately determine how good a player is.
Not sure what the problem is, I get not playing when it is clear you are superior to everyone on the field, but he sounds like he will be playing a long time after high school.
As far as coaches sucking, they suck at all levels. My sons college coach has one of the highest winning percentage among active coaches, the staff has been together for 16 years, several trips to Omaha and won 1 national championship and they suck. Well according to some parents anyway.
This thread is equal parts amusing and annoying. So much nonsense. Georgia is a really good baseball state that produces a lot of good players. But no HS program is so deep that a "player that would start on Varsity as a freshman at other comparable schools" is playing JV as a junior at your school. JV can be such bad baseball that the stats that go along with it are meaningless. I always get a giggle out of hearing someone try to build a case for a player based on JV stats. It can be different for pitchers, but as a position player if you aren't a Varsity starter as a sophomore (in most programs) or a junior (in elite programs) your odds of being recruited to play college baseball are slim. "Better than average Varsity players" are not what colleges are looking for. They are looking for standouts. A standout player is noticable on every ball field he steps on - whether its HS or travel ball. In the case of the OP it sounds like one of 2 things : either the HS HC is an idiot or BBDAD98 is delusional. I guess either one is a possibility.
adbono posted:This thread is equal parts amusing and annoying. So much nonsense. Georgia is a really good baseball state that produces a lot of good players. But no HS program is so deep that a "player that would start on Varsity as a freshman at other comparable schools" is playing JV as a junior at your school. JV can be such bad baseball that the stats that go along with it are meaningless. I always get a giggle out of hearing someone try to build a case for a player based on JV stats. It can be different for pitchers, but as a position player if you aren't a Varsity starter as a sophomore (in most programs) or a junior (in elite programs) your odds of being recruited to play college baseball are slim. "Better than average Varsity players" are not what colleges are looking for. They are looking for standouts. A standout player is noticable on every ball field he steps on - whether its HS or travel ball. In the case of the OP it sounds like one of 2 things : either the HS HC is an idiot or BBDAD98 is delusional. I guess either one is a possibility.
Bragging on JV stats and an 8th grade swing when the player is a high school junior would be a tip.
Another poster is correct about travel versus high school. The college attention comes from travel. Colleges coaches politely asked how the high school season went. It was nothing but conversation. The only high school stats they were interested in were GPA and SAT scores. The only conversation with high school coaches was about citizenship, leadership and work ethic. High school coaches are around players more day to day than travel coaches.
Here is an update at the conclusion of my son’s Freshman season. After telling my son he would not get a lot of playing time, the coach lived up to his word. My son was one of 6 players who did not see the field. The coach started his favorite 9/10 players, regardless of their performance. If they struggled, he moved them down in the lineup. No substitutes even in blowouts. When one of the six asked what he needed to do to get more playing time, the coach replied “ you need to get bigger and stronger”. Mind you, this kid is one if not the best glove on the team. Now this is not my kid I am talking about. Limited opportunities in the preseason games, and at most an at bat or a 1/2 inning in the field every week or so for those 6 kids. The team beat most of the bad teams, and lost to the good teams. They are not good hitters and have limited pitching. The coach even benched sophomores in favor of his favorite freshman. The sophomores realized in the first week of practice that the coach has favorites. Apparently it’s no secret that this guy is a bad coach. The kids didn’t learn anything except some baserunning, and didn’t get any better. Glad it’s over and now to look forward to summer ball where my son finally got to play and pitch. Threw a one hitter giving up one run in 4 innings before he was yanked because it was his first game pitching since last year. His batting average so far is around .650.
He should just try soccer.
How did your son throw a one hitter from the bench? You say he did not see the field and yet you say they saw 1 to 2 innings a week. That can't be true. If they saw 1 to 2 innings a week that is about right for bench players in high school. We had several that did not see the field but about 10 innings all year on varsity. He was yanked because it was his first outing in a year. Didn't he play travel ball? So his travel ball coach did not pitch him either. Your posts are confusing. Not trying to start a fight but trying to give a rational outlook.
What I see is a poster/parent perfectly willing to talk about other players and throw them under the bus. It’s the worst kind of parent a coach has to deal with. It’s a parent who lacks character. They talk about other players and are willing to tear them down to build up their son. The kids of these kinds are parents grow up hanging around the water cooler at work complaining about their boss and other people’s promotions. It’s because it’s what they were taught.
i looked back to see where this part of the post started. Your son didn’t start on the middle school team. You complained to the coach. Your son doesn’t start as a high school freshman on JV. You’re complaining again. I see a trend. Prepare yourself for the harsh reality. Ready? Your son isn’t very good and you’re the only one who can’t see it. Or, you’re such a PITA coaches don’t want anything to do with you or your son. Chances are all the complaining you’re doing about the coach is getting back to him.
Back when my son played JV as a freshman there was a parent complaining to everyone who didn’t run away her son had the top batting average on JV and the coach was a jerk for only playing him part of the time. The coach knew the kid had no future. The kid only played against the worst pitching so he could feel the the thrill of success before being cut after soph year.
The coach was doing the kid a favor. And the parent ripped the coach for two years. That is until she moved on to ripping the varsity coach for cutting her son with the high JV batting average.
I will add to this that college coaches have egos. RJM is correct in my experience. Coaches who contact the high school coach are looking at character issues. Even in football where there is no travel ball. Our head coach got an e mail from my son's #1 choice and let him read it. D1 football and not a single word asking coach about his abilities. All about character, how he is as a teammate etc. As I said they have egos and THEY will determine if the kid is able to play at their level. We have one kid who barely played as a junior (personally I think that was a mistake) who is being recruited and may get a deal. The college coaches are not afraid to disagree with the high school coaches about a kids ability to play at the next level. Our coaches don't do much for kids recruitment. And we have two already committed D1 and four more with D1's seriously following them and several more with D2's on them. If colleges think you are good enough they won't much care what the high school coach did with you. Now it doesnt help I grant you. But if you are a junior with absolutely no communication from college coaches... I don't want to be mean but that's a pretty strong indication it's over. In football it's all about twitter. I would say my son is followed by 70ish programs? Probably half those followed him when he was a sophomore and the summer before junior year. Now that junior year is coming to a close new coaches come in here and there. Pretty much all the schools who are going to be interested have already expressed that interest. Only way that changes now is if he goes to a camp in June and absolutely wows somebody. Or is seen by a school a little farther away geographically who decides to take a shot. But point is the recruiting process is ENDING, not beginning. I see a lot of disappointed fathers and sons as the clock is winding down and there is seemingly nothing for them. It's truly sad and hard to deal with. This is why I don't want to rip on these parents on here. It's a terrible time for them. I wish you luck but I also hope you are able to handle the end if that's what this is. One of the best tips looking back I have gotten here is 'if you have to ask if you're being recruited, you're not'. They aren't out to hide it when they are really looking at you. If you don't KNOW any schools are very excited about your son when he is a junior the gig is up. Give your kid a hug and tell him it was a good run. Even Willie Mays had to retire.
I wouldn't get too caught up in his playing time as a freshman. Many times, coaches have preconceived values of players, there are growth/maturity factors, next up for Varsity, etc. Freshman year is typically a waste of time, outside of a few either talented, or early maturers. This all typically shakes out over a 4 year HS career.
Focus on summer, having your son regain his love for the game. His role should grow with the HS team, if his talent and dedication are there. It's a journey, some kids don't get meaningful time until their senior years, if they even do at all.
Maybe also write down the goals for your son. Is it to be a starter 100% of the time and do his talents match that? Is there value in just being part of a team and bonding with his HS peers for 4 years? Do you want him to have the structure and challenges of being a student athlete, regardless of PT?
I know playing time can be frustrating. I haven't had that with my son's pitching, but he was forced to be a PO as a sophomore. I used to struggle with him sitting on non-pitching days, as he's a good athlete and can contribute offensively. But being a pitcher has buttered his bread, he's OK with being a PO, as am I. I still go to games when he's not pitching and cheer for the team and watch him have a hell of a time in the dugout. Heck, it's a lot less stressful that way too!
For all parents, who think the coach is just a jerk, cannot evaluate talent or has an agenda other than winning. Have your kid take up wrestling. Coach has little to do with who wrestles varsity. Your kid better than the Varsity Wrestler at his weight class, Prove it. Challenge the starter to a wrestle off. If you beat him you are varsity. Cannot beat him, move up or down a weight class and beat another guy.
Yeah, I know wrestling is not for everyone.
KTCOTB posted:Here is an update at the conclusion of my son’s Freshman season. After telling my son he would not get a lot of playing time, the coach lived up to his word. My son was one of 6 players who did not see the field. The coach started his favorite 9/10 players, regardless of their performance. If they struggled, he moved them down in the lineup. No substitutes even in blowouts. When one of the six asked what he needed to do to get more playing time, the coach replied “ you need to get bigger and stronger”. Mind you, this kid is one if not the best glove on the team. Now this is not my kid I am talking about. Limited opportunities in the preseason games, and at most an at bat or a 1/2 inning in the field every week or so for those 6 kids. The team beat most of the bad teams, and lost to the good teams. They are not good hitters and have limited pitching. The coach even benched sophomores in favor of his favorite freshman. The sophomores realized in the first week of practice that the coach has favorites. Apparently it’s no secret that this guy is a bad coach. The kids didn’t learn anything except some baserunning, and didn’t get any better. Glad it’s over and now to look forward to summer ball where my son finally got to play and pitch. Threw a one hitter giving up one run in 4 innings before he was yanked because it was his first game pitching since last year. His batting average so far is around .650.
So the coach told your son he would not get a lot of playing time, and he didn't. A player asked a coach what he has to do to get better. The coach tells him exactly what he needs to do and the answer was wrong because he has a good glove? The coach then benches players who are not performing for other freshmen and he is wrong for doing that because they're his favorites?
If you can't find "that parent" in the stands, it's probably you. All signs would point to him not being good enough to play on this team but everybody else is wrong because he is doing well on his 14u travel team.
Do not confuse HS baseball with rec, it's not equal opportunity. The best play the rest sit. Should he get some work in during blowouts? Of course, but maybe he is worried that your kid hits a double and he'll never hear the end of it. The truth is that you texted the coach about playing time last year (big no no) and he didn't hold it against your kid during tryouts. Now that he's on the team you're complaining again. Something the coach did not want.
Either your kid is not that good or the coach really regrets taking your son back and is just trying to get thru the season and so he can cut him during tryouts next year. Either way, if your kid was a stand out, he would be standing out.
It’s very simple. This is JV ball. To confine players so early to the bench due to preconceived notions about their ability is foolish. My son as well as 5 other kids had little to no opportunity to play and prove themselves, even in scrimmage games. He has had the SAME coach since 7th grade who has his mind made up about him. All the kid wants is a chance, and he was denied that. JV is about developing players. The only thing you develop sitting on the bench all year is hemorrhoids. Referring to the one hitter, I was referring to summer ball, which has already begun.
The goals are simple for next year and have been discussed already.
1. Work hard refining skills across the board: hitting , pitching , fielding, speed and agility.
2. Stand out to the point where it is painfully obvious that he should be a starter.
He has low self confidence in baseball, and has been beaten down by this coach of 3 years. But he is no quitter. Let’s see what next year brings.
KTCOTB,
I actually agree with you that JV should be about developing players and should be an environment where players play, at least some, in games. I also applaud the goals for next year.
That said, I can't buy the statements " had little to no opportunity to play and prove themselves" and "All the kid wants is a chance, and he was denied that." I'm also not on board with the idea your son is stuck because of preconceived notions. They practice together every day for months. Most opportunities are won or lost at practice. Yes, some players are gamers. And, you may or may not be right about the coach' current assessment of your son's ability. But don't underestimate the time spent, the number of reps taken and the clarity that comes from seeing players executing on the field day in and day out. He is being given an opportunity, a chance, every day.
Preconceived notions - HS coaches know that player skill sets, physical strength, maturity, etc., will grow during those years, some more than others. It is inevitable. Yes, the coach will fall back on what he has learned from observing a particular player up to the present point in time but will certainly expect a level of change.
Regarding the low self confidence in baseball... sounds like there is a pattern where he is having success in travel but not yet at this point in HS. He should just focus his thoughts on his success in travel to assure himself of his ability to play.
Continued best to him!
I've said it before, I'll say it again. If your kid is playing Varsity BB as a Freshman, then he is either a massive talent, or you are at a small school playing mediocre BB. Good for you if you are the former(your son should be on the national radar), who cares if you're the latter? Enjoy the season, have some laughs.
I only know of one Freshman who MIGHT have played Varsity here about 30 years ago. He was a first round draft pick. Keep in mind that we are a large public in the upper midwest who has a good, but not great program. We would get our asses kicked by the best teams from TX, CA, FLA, GA, etc..
Only one kid from my son's Freshman group played JV. 6'3" LHP/OF/1B. Can touch low 80's, with a nasty breaking pitch. Great hitter, good glove, and can run.
Freshman are still growing, and aren't supposed to be able to compete with kids 4 years older than them. Physically, and mentally, they aren't in the same place. I
My son started to complain the other day that someone else got a start in the field instead of him. I told him he wasn't hitting, what did he expect?
Maybe I'm off base. Do the top teams from the BB states(i.e. CA, GA) have lots of Freshman on their Varsity teams? Don't see how that's possible, if they have a healthy turnout from the higher classes for tryouts. It's normal around here to have 8-10 Seniors, 5-6 Juniors, 1-2 Sophomores on a Varsity team. Freshman don't play Varsity.
Baseball is about opportunities. Make the best of the ones you’ve earned and be a good teammate the other times. I personally wouldn’t want to have my playing time I’ve earned taken from me to let someone who did not earn it get a “chance to develop.” We are quickly moving to a place where you develop outside of your teams.
It won’t help your son IMO to continue to think poorly of his coach. If you do, I suggest you are quiet about it.
Been there done that. My senior lead the district in hits and Batting average. Is currently still #2 on the team in batting average and top 7 in district. Been sitting the bench since the second half of the season only to pinch hit at times. By missing those 6 games he is currently tied 5th in hits. Has 40 less at bats or so. Batting average hasn’t been under .360 until late (358). Only 3 players are above .300. The fielder he was replaced with is maybe the same skill defense but not near the hitter. Oh and btw pitched in 6 preseason games to not give up a hit. Had a rough 2 innings last game pitched with a few walks and hasn’t pitched since. But it’s ok. He has been recruited to play juco college ball
Read this fictional short story in social media and it reminded me of this thread (at I think it's fictional)...
atlnon posted:Read this fictional short story in social media and it reminded me of this thread (at I think it's fictional)...
The real story has a few more lines. The dad returns to steaming by the time he gets back to his car and slams the door. He calls his wife. He reminds her the coach is clueless and now the principal is protecting her. He goes to the next game and rips both of them a new backside to anyone who will listen (typically the parents of other bench players). If his daughter ever starts varsity over four years she’s an ordinary player. Dad rips the coach to anyone who will listen the coach didn’t support her for all conference.
The story may be fictional. But it plays out all over the country every year.
And the coach’s real first name is Sheesa.
WJP posted:Been there done that. My senior lead the district in hits and Batting average. Is currently still #2 on the team in batting average and top 7 in district. Been sitting the bench since the second half of the season only to pinch hit at times. By missing those 6 games he is currently tied 5th in hits. Has 40 less at bats or so. Batting average hasn’t been under .360 until late (358). Only 3 players are above .300. The fielder he was replaced with is maybe the same skill defense but not near the hitter. Oh and btw pitched in 6 preseason games to not give up a hit. Had a rough 2 innings last game pitched with a few walks and hasn’t pitched since. But it’s ok. He has been recruited to play juco college ball
So why is he sitting? Did something happen? Can't imagine a coach sitting a great player for a bad player if nothing happened.
Hell, Even I know Becky Dixon is better than Marley Jenkins
atlnon posted:Read this fictional short story in social media and it reminded me of this thread (at I think it's fictional)...
Coached in schools for 26 years...would love to work for an administrator with the sack to say, "Mr. _______, hear me out – you’re out of line...."
PitchingFan posted:WJP posted:Been there done that. My senior lead the district in hits and Batting average. Is currently still #2 on the team in batting average and top 7 in district. Been sitting the bench since the second half of the season only to pinch hit at times. By missing those 6 games he is currently tied 5th in hits. Has 40 less at bats or so. Batting average hasn’t been under .360 until late (358). Only 3 players are above .300. The fielder he was replaced with is maybe the same skill defense but not near the hitter. Oh and btw pitched in 6 preseason games to not give up a hit. Had a rough 2 innings last game pitched with a few walks and hasn’t pitched since. But it’s ok. He has been recruited to play juco college ball
So why is he sitting? Did something happen? Can't imagine a coach sitting a great player for a bad player if nothing happened.
Have no clue. Everyone in town asked me the same thing. Kid goes to practice and works hard as any one else. I know better than question a coach. Don’t need him telling college scouts anything negative. I just remind my kid every week to keep working and if he gets in to take advantage of it and shine.
Update from "That Dad" lol. My son did well over the summer at PBR and PG events. He did get some looks from D3 schools and he actually talked to the coaches and he did attend the camps that they invited him to. He batted .342 over the summer, and was one of the top 4. The team as a whole lost more games than they won and almost tied more games than they won. My son missed the last 2 tournaments due to an injury. He took the fall off to heal, do showcases and get his ACT and SAT done.
I did want to address some of the comments that I saw on here. I never meant to imply my son was a good baseball player based off of JV stats. I do believe if you went back you would see that my son did very well on the JV team compared to the other 4-5 JV players that moved up and down from varsity. His JV stats were better than the rest of the JV players and his Summer stats were better than the Varsity players stats as well and these were stats taken while he (14U) played up 2 years (16U) with these and against these Varsity players. He did see weaker comp at the JV level but so did the other guys that were called up before him. My son faced the same talent as the varsity players in the summer and lead the entire 16U team and it was a .500 team. Someone stated that it made no sense for me to think he could have been on varsity as a freshman on a similar HS team. A fellow travel dad made that comment to me that my son should play Varsity and that he would at his sons school. He knew my son was better player than the other freshman varsity players at that school. That school is now state champions and his son was a freshman varsity player. Our school seems to pick at least 2 freshman to be on varsity every year and one year they pick 4 or 5, which happens to be the year my son did so well and the others struggled to the point they were put back down to JV and still did not do well. I can't speak for other schools but this seems to be normal over here. Our HS had a great season and won 20 plus games with like 5 losses and 2 were in the playoffs, we should had done better but it is impossible to criticize the coaches if they are winning as much as we do. We could win more though with just a few more good decisions. Our roster was not that deep in talent unless they took my advice and moved up the 3 players I would suggest. But if I remember right the averages drop off the table after the 6th batter. Two of the bottom starters were even dangerous to have in the field. The other bench players had chances but could not earn a spot, then only then they brought my son up and he did amazing hitting and fielding for the 7 innings they let him play.
My son is now a Junior and the suspected Varsity team looks to be really strong but still might be missing 2 really good players the coaches might leave on JV. Why, I don't know that seems to be what they do? We should have 6-7 seniors and 6-7 Juniors with two sophomores that would most likely carry over from last year. Which would leave about 3ish positions open for another sophomore or freshmans.
Breaking News! My son has told me he no longer has interest in playing in college which has been a dream of his sense he first learned about college sports (maybe 5 or 6 years old). He plans to play his Junior year and see if the coaches give him a chance or if they will continue to over look him. He said he is really tired of the bad coaching at HS and is not sure how much longer he can stand poor instructions from coaches who don't seem to be able to demonstrate what they are looking for from their players. He said the last 3 years of HS baseball has been the worst experiences with any coaches he has every had, and he doesn't want to even think about having a coach who seems not to like/or care for him in college. He is currently getting private instructions on hitting, he has weight training everyday, he also has baseball specific conditioning and arm care 3 days a week. He is still working very hard so we will see what he chooses to do.
"Breaking News! My son has told me he no longer has interest in playing in college which has been a dream of his sense he first learned about college sports (maybe 5 or 6 years old). He plans to play his Junior year and see if the coaches give him a chance or if they will continue to over look him. He said he is really tired of the bad coaching at HS and is not sure how much longer he can stand poor instructions from coaches who don't seem to be able to demonstrate what they are looking for from their players. He said the last 3 years of HS baseball has been the worst experiences with any coaches he has every had, and he doesn't want to even think about having a coach who seems not to like/or care for him in college. He is currently getting private instructions on hitting, he has weight training everyday, he also has baseball specific conditioning and arm care 3 days a week. He is still working very hard so we will see what he chooses to do."
Not sure why you are spending the money on him when he has decided he is no longer interested in playing college baseball. My son had a bad HS coach, and one of his teammates came to the same conclusion as your son and his parents stopped paying for private lessons and such. The kid stuck it out and played a solid senior season but he finished his baseball career then and there. Wise move by his parents who realized their kid was not going to be able to survive the demands of college baseball if he could not overcome a bad HS coach. They accepted it and moved on.
On the other hand, my son was determined to prove his HS coach wrong and has done so by playing college baseball with a drive and determination that has set him up well for life beyond baseball and college. Learning to survive tough, negative or just bad coaches is part of growing up and positioning a kid for life in the "real world" where their job and financial well-being may depend on their ability to survive and overcome bad managers/bosses.
That's a shame. You only have a HS baseball experience once. Many times the fun is wrung out of it by Parents. Reading the under tones on this thread, you may want to make sure you are not one of those parents.
Statements like "unless they took my advice and moved up the 3 players I would suggest." Show your disdain for the program. Your son is sure to pick up on your attitude.
There is still time to jump on board and make the baseball time he has left, fun and productive. However it may mean having a sitdown with your son and explaining you were wrong about some things.
One attribute about quitting is it makes it easier to do the second time.
Wow. I don't know where to start. If he did so well in travel at PG and PBR events, and he is still taking private instruction and working an off-season throwing program, why does he no longer have interest in playing college baseball? Why would he do that just for a HS program that he doesn't like and you hate? If he did so well w/ travel, PG and PBR, and has consistently been a great player for years, why is he only getting some interest from D3? If the HS baseball team is such a perennial winner and desirable program to be a part of, as you have stated in previous posts, how can they have two starters that are even dangerous to have in the field? If the dad of a fellow travel team player of your son, not from the same HS but lives in the same state says to you that your son should be starting varsity, why the heck wouldn't your son's HS coach be listening to him? Geez, you were right all along. That coach is an idiot. Just because your son has a weird throwing motion, that doesn't mean he shouldn't get more attention and opportunity at higher levels. Geez, he's totally getting the job done at HS JV.
Seriously, as we approach page 11, you seem to have listened to absolutely none, zero, of the advice given by an audience that can help you, and in turn, your son. It's getting late and that door is closing quickly. Go back and read your posts in this thread and, more importantly, the responses. Think about what advice others are trying to give you, not about what you want to hear. It is becoming extremely unlikely your son will be able to survive a college baseball program, regardless of how far his skill set may continue to advance. So, he may have made a wise decision. It may not be too late but the fat lady has her harmonica out, humming her notes.
cabbagedad posted:
Seriously, as we approach page 11...
Classic!
It may happen one day. But so far I have never seen these situations end well. My son was a tremendous HS player. Ranked very high. Went to his dream school. All I did was keep it real with him. Never offered excuses as a solution. He transferred to another school and I did the exact same thing. During his 5 years of college 1 rs year and 4 playing not once did I offer up excuses when things were tough. And he followed my lead. No excuses find a way. He ended up having a great college baseball experience. He ended up being an All American his sr year. He learned how to grind. He learned how to deal with adversity. He learned how to fight.
At the end of his college career his college coach who I never talked to one time about my son's baseball. Pulled me over to the side after a game and said. "I hope one day when my son's play baseball I can be the parent you have been. I hope my sons are half the man your son is."
He offered my son a spot on his staff after he graduated. And when the PC was offered a HC position he gave my son a job on his staff. This started my son's coaching career his dream he always wanted to do. What he will tell you is he wouldn't change a thing. Those tough times were the fire that forged the steel. They were what drove him to be a great player but more important an outstanding man. Baseball is great. But nothing is as important as the man he will be one day. Baseball is a vehicle that can assist your son with this process in a positive way or a negative way. And make no mistake you as a parent have a whole lot to do with what road they take.
It may sound harsh but the bottom line is be more concerned with the man the game is making than the player you want him to be.
I'll throw my 2 cents in but the value is probably less. You stated that your son doesn't have any respect for the high school coach. You have made it clear that you have no respect for the high school coach. You stated that your son no longer has any wish to pursue baseball in college. Do both of you a favor and tell your son to do something other than play baseball at this school. You and your son will be happier and the stories of how great he was and what could have been will resonate forever as you blame the high school coach.
Just in case there are new readers thinking we are ganging up and being hard on this guy, you need to know there is extensive history with him in this thread. We were largely sympathetic and/or tried to offer guidance/support the first ten or twenty posts he made on this topic.
Unfortunately, unless proper role models enter the kid’s life he’s doomed to be the complainer at the water cooler at work. The players who get ahead in baseball and people who get ahead in the business world aren’t complainers. They see problems and seek solutions.
“The brick walls are there for a reason. The brick walls are not there to keep us out. The brick walls are there to give us a chance to show how badly we want something. The brick walls are there to stop the people who don’t want it badly enough. They’re there to stop other people.”
-Randy Pausch
It seems fairly obvious that this kid is making wise choice. College baseball isn't for everyone, him realizing it now will only benefit him. There are many down sides to the college experience, some of us think they are worth it for the upsides but that doesn't mean we are correct.
I have 2 - one stuck with it in college, is in the process of having successful career, has been player for his first seasons in a 2 games out of 3 role and will be a full time starter (at least I believe he will) this coming season. He will be the first to tell you ain't all fun and he questioned many times why he does it.
My 2nd said hell no I got better things to do....is he a quitter? Let me tell you something that kid is a stud and is going to very very successful. He knows how to read a room, he anticipates situations well and is very observant to what is going on around him. I almost had to convince him to play his SR yr in HS because the love and desire we gone...but he certainly isn't a quitter.
There is a big world out there besides playing HS and college baseball - deciding not go that path is not a bad choice - only a personal one.
My son is continuing all of his practice regiments currently because he wants to be the best he can and his goal is to be the best on the field every time he goes out. He is very competitive and has proven himself to be competitive in mind and actually play over and over again. Even when I was helping coach his 9-13 travel teams I did not advocate for him to have un earned daddy ball playing time. There were years that he was the smallest player, not the worst just the smallest player and his hitting and his consistency in the field moved him up in the lineup without any of my influence as a coach. My influence was with my son working on his swing and working on his defense his hustle and everything else. My son has seen the brick walls and has climbed them. I hope he continues but he is becoming tired of it. I think he his projected to be D3 partly because he is 5'9" and not likely to get any taller. Big guys with bad batting averages are going to get more looks because they can hit the ball further that one time somebody important was watching. They are more projectable. The coaches are looking for big guys they can coach to be better. Coaches are not going to be able to teach my son how to be 6'2" 200 lbs. My son is currently throwing 86 from the outfield with great accuracy he has a exit velo of 85 (wood bat on a tee) and runs a 7.02 (laser) 60. I have read your guys comments and thank you for the words of advice and the quotes you share. I see truth in a lot of them. Sometimes things are just different. Some will say his bad coach is preparing him for a bad boss and maybe it is. I however don't put up with bad bosses. I am very good at my job, there are few of me, and I am wanted by several companies. I will move on if the company is not heading in the direction I want to go ( I do not job hop I have stayed at least 6 yrs everywhere). I have respect for myself I have had to demand respect form many bosses. I always respect the boss and they should give it back. If they don't, I call them out on it. That's my real world. This baseball world my son can't do that, and I can't do that. It might hurt a coaches ego or feelings. Maybe someone here can relate to this scenario. Coach tells a bunch of 14year olds you guys know nothing about baseball, when I was 14 I was so dumb and I knew nothing about baseball until I had a good coach teach me the right way to play. Then he went on to coach them all the things my son and I would say most of the others already knew. My point is just because you were dumb at 14 does not mean everyone else is. I went to the bank looking for a loan at 20 yrs old. Before running my credit the loan officer told me no because I was the same age as his son and his son would not be able to get a loan at that bank. I went to school with his son and just because he is a loser should have no affect on me. I asked him to run my credit, he begrudgingly did. He came back with a big smile on his face and said we can do business. Maybe sometimes we don't need to climb these walls but knock them down. If you are correct then bosses, bankers and dare I say teachers and coaches need to be corrected. My son longs for the day when he will be judged for the content of his character, work ethic, and playing ability rather than the number of years he has been around the sun. HS tryouts on MLK 2020. We will see what happens. For those of you that think I should sit down and have a heart to heart with my son and take blame for what I have done. I did have a sit down talk about it before he said he didn't want to play in college. I critique everything and everyone, it's me. I don't share them with everyone, and I have had success with helping others and myself in doing so. (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.) I did apologized if I was hard on him his teammates or coaches. He told me I was correct in my judgments an rarely wrong at reading people and their abilities. He told me I was the most fair minded coach he ever had. I was not however his favorite. lol. He continues to ask me to take him to the field for extra work with hitting and fielding and we both have a really fun time. I continue to encourage him to battle and play hard because his past experiences has proven that when he works hard he comes out on top. We never thought it would take 3 years but he has 2 more to get it done.
BBDAD98 posted:My son is continuing all of his practice regiments currently because he wants to be the best he can and his goal is to be the best on the field every time he goes out. He is very competitive and has proven himself to be competitive in mind and actually play over and over again. Even when I was helping coach his 9-13 travel teams I did not advocate for him to have un earned daddy ball playing time. There were years that he was the smallest player, not the worst just the smallest player and his hitting and his consistency in the field moved him up in the lineup without any of my influence as a coach. My influence was with my son working on his swing and working on his defense his hustle and everything else. My son has seen the brick walls and has climbed them. I hope he continues but he is becoming tired of it. I think he his projected to be D3 partly because he is 5'9" and not likely to get any taller. Big guys with bad batting averages are going to get more looks because they can hit the ball further that one time somebody important was watching. They are more projectable. The coaches are looking for big guys they can coach to be better. Coaches are not going to be able to teach my son how to be 6'2" 200 lbs. My son is currently throwing 86 from the outfield with great accuracy he has a exit velo of 85 (wood bat on a tee) and runs a 7.02 (laser) 60. I have read your guys comments and thank you for the words of advice and the quotes you share. I see truth in a lot of them. Sometimes things are just different. Some will say his bad coach is preparing him for a bad boss and maybe it is. I however don't put up with bad bosses. I am very good at my job, there are few of me, and I am wanted by several companies. I will move on if the company is not heading in the direction I want to go ( I do not job hop I have stayed at least 6 yrs everywhere). I have respect for myself I have had to demand respect form many bosses. I always respect the boss and they should give it back. If they don't, I call them out on it. That's my real world. This baseball world my son can't do that, and I can't do that. It might hurt a coaches ego or feelings. Maybe someone here can relate to this scenario. Coach tells a bunch of 14year olds you guys know nothing about baseball, when I was 14 I was so dumb and I knew nothing about baseball until I had a good coach teach me the right way to play. Then he went on to coach them all the things my son and I would say most of the others already knew. My point is just because you were dumb at 14 does not mean everyone else is. I went to the bank looking for a loan at 20 yrs old. Before running my credit the loan officer told me no because I was the same age as his son and his son would not be able to get a loan at that bank. I went to school with his son and just because he is a loser should have no affect on me. I asked him to run my credit, he begrudgingly did. He came back with a big smile on his face and said we can do business. Maybe sometimes we don't need to climb these walls but knock them down. If you are correct then bosses, bankers and dare I say teachers and coaches need to be corrected. My son longs for the day when he will be judged for the content of his character, work ethic, and playing ability rather than the number of years he has been around the sun. HS tryouts on MLK 2020. We will see what happens. For those of you that think I should sit down and have a heart to heart with my son and take blame for what I have done. I did have a sit down talk about it before he said he didn't want to play in college. I critique everything and everyone, it's me. I don't share them with everyone, and I have had success with helping others and myself in doing so. (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.) I did apologized if I was hard on him his teammates or coaches. He told me I was correct in my judgments an rarely wrong at reading people and their abilities. He told me I was the most fair minded coach he ever had. I was not however his favorite. lol. He continues to ask me to take him to the field for extra work with hitting and fielding and we both have a really fun time. I continue to encourage him to battle and play hard because his past experiences has proven that when he works hard he comes out on top. We never thought it would take 3 years but he has 2 more to get it done.
The bold above pretty much sums everything up and give me a pretty good idea of why your son isn't playing.
HS Baseball is running rampant with 2 things: 1) Poor coaching &. 2) Overinvolved, delusional parents. If you wanna know what happens when the 2 collide all you have to do is read this thread.
Smitty28 posted:cabbagedad posted:
Seriously, as we approach page 11...
Classic!
Thanks guys, I just spit up my coffee (again) and made a mess.
Coach May you speak the baseball and parenting gospel. Awesome post about letting your children grow up within boundaries and finding their way in life.
Please don't ever take this down. You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this. If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with. So you scouted a JV team for playoffs? Are you kidding me? When your son is not even starting? I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.
Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500. I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up. I do know you are your son's worst enemy. YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU. WOW. I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this.
This has to be a Top 10 Thread.
BBDAD98 posted:... (Last seasons playoffs I scouted the other team for fun and came up with a strategy to win. We were a higher seed but I could tell right away this team had more talent that our team was going to need to over come. Their top 3 pitchers were good, but predictable. They had 3 hitters that you have to get out and I studied them to see what was the best pitching strategy to achieve this. I shared my strategy with my son. I hoped he would find it useful and share it with others. The coaches did their own scouting and strategy and shared it with the team. It was much different than what I had. We were run ruled twice. My son got one at bat only in the second game after it was clear we were getting run ruled and the Ace pitcher was throwing a no hitter shutout. My son used the information I gave him about how predictable this pitcher was and my son hit a line drive over the short stop.) ...
Let me get this straight... So, in playoffs, your son's team was run-ruled twice by a team, one game included having a no-no shoved at them (except for your son's late inning sub hit). But you had a strategy that would have resulted in his team winning the series.
Man, I can seriously use your help... I'd like to see more rescue dogs behave and we need a faster cure for cancer, SMA and ALS.
I'm tappin' out... best to ya.
I've posted this before....but I coached this guy's kid for 2 years in junior high. Go about 7 minutes in lol
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6tf87k
To be fair....some (quite a bit actually) of this is an act....I knew him well enough to know it as soon as I watched....BUT in our little small town, most people saw this and this is exactly what they thought of him. I haven't seen him for 5 years now.... but my son and the kid played 2 years of Varsity HS ball together and are still friends.....great kid, and I really think that if he wouldn't have had to put up with dad and his "coaching" that he could have played college bal. He ended up giving up baseball after HS.....I'm fairly certain it was he was just tired of dad at that point
I think the value in this thread does not come down to the ability to help the op. It comes down to hopefully someone reads this and takes the advice offered up before it's too late for them. I will be honest, sometimes I look back on when my son's were playing sports before the HS years and I cringe at myself. I valued some things over other things then and now that I look back I say "What in the _____ was I thinking?" I did some things and I look back and I am quite honestly embarrassed. Just think about this. When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?
Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.
It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.
Coach May, now that's a sermon we all needed to hear!
old_school posted:It seems fairly obvious that this kid is making wise choice. College baseball isn't for everyone, him realizing it now will only benefit him. There are many down sides to the college experience, some of us think they are worth it for the upsides but that doesn't mean we are correct.
I have 2 - one stuck with it in college, is in the process of having successful career, has been player for his first seasons in a 2 games out of 3 role and will be a full time starter (at least I believe he will) this coming season. He will be the first to tell you ain't all fun and he questioned many times why he does it.
My 2nd said hell no I got better things to do....is he a quitter? Let me tell you something that kid is a stud and is going to very very successful. He knows how to read a room, he anticipates situations well and is very observant to what is going on around him. I almost had to convince him to play his SR yr in HS because the love and desire we gone...but he certainly isn't a quitter.
There is a big world out there besides playing HS and college baseball - deciding not go that path is not a bad choice - only a personal one.
I love this post. Folks! Read it and read it again. It’s ok if your kid doesn’t keep playing baseball. Baseball is a choice. For all players it starts off as their own choice. For some players it will end being someone else’s choice. Be supportive and love your player.
I like the post, too. Easy to forget that not everyone would crawl through
broken glass to keep playing like I would have.
broken glass to keep playing like I would have.
There are a lot of outstanding posts in this thread. As you all know I coached my daughter in travel ball and ended up having to be her high school coach. That was not what I wanted. In fact, we didn't want her to play TB and couldn't have cared less if she decided to not play in college. Along the way, somehow her mother and I must have done something right. BB is a middle school and high school coach now. She coached 8 years of TB and her heart was broken when she had to stop doing that. (Long story) Now, and I know some of you others have the same happening in your lives, she and I talk coaching. I am amazed at what she learned. My wife and I were never the parents to push, yell during games, get upset with loses or get too excited about wins and I think that is what kept her even keeled. The love of the game is destroyed so often by so many including coaches and parents. If some of you will remember, at one game in college against their conference rival, I got up to walk behind the bleachers because I was nervous for her in a high pressure situation. After the game, she came up to me and asked my why I left my chair. I didn't even realize she would know where we were sitting. She told me I didn't have to get up and walk and that she would get the hits. I think maybe some parents don't realize the impact they make even by simply doing the nervous walk. I would give almost anything to go back and get to do that journey again. Some parents will reap the joy and benefits of similar actions and the enjoyment. Some will never know it. They simply can't help themselves.
I'm not a coach, and I'm also closer to being a high-school parent than some who have posted. I was a newbie sports parent who spent lots of time wondering why the coach did things. Never ever said anything, but wondered. So I get where the OPs (there are 3 or 4 of them on this thread, I think) come from. Every parent I have known second-guesses coaches about something! By senior year of high school, I understood and approved of most of what the coach had been doing for 4 years; freshman year, there were lots of unasked/unanswered questions, and to this day, there are some things that I still don't understand.
I completely agree with Coach May about character. I saw my son do things that made me proud of him as a person, but I expect that, 10 years from now, I may realize what those were better than I do now. In the moment, you only see what's happening in that moment, and you react without knowing how things are going to play out. Hindsight solves a lot of problems!
Adversity Made Me The Man I Am Today. Every Injury, Every Challenge, Every Loss, Becomes Fuel That Keeps Me Motivated. I’m Determined To Be The Best Me!
- Danny Shelton, DT New England Patriots
PitchingFan posted:Please don't ever take this down. You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this. If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with. So you scouted a JV team for playoffs? Are you kidding me? When your son is not even starting? I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.
Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500. I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up. I do know you are your son's worst enemy. YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU. WOW. I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this.
This has to be a Top 10 Thread.
You all sure we're not being trolled??? Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?
atlnon posted:PitchingFan posted:Please don't ever take this down. You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this. If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with. So you scouted a JV team for playoffs? Are you kidding me? When your son is not even starting? I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.
Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500. I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up. I do know you are your son's worst enemy. YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU. WOW. I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this.
This has to be a Top 10 Thread.
You all sure we're not being trolled??? Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?
I saw parental behavior and heard parental comments regarding making varsity and playing time that were just unbelievable. In two of the most significant situations I recollect I was very tempted to ask the parents, “How many freak’n opportunities and failures do you believe your kid deserves?” The parents were blind to their kid got their shot. In both cases the parents had trouble accepted that 14u stud and high school, big boy ball are two different things.
It was amusing to hear how successful their kids were on piss poor 16u teams that never saw quality pitching. These were the teams in pool play I worked from the back of the staff as a travel coach. On some occasions, to save pitching I asked former pitcher, position players to just throw strikes until we out slugged them into a mercy.
atlnon posted:PitchingFan posted:Please don't ever take this down. You can't make this stuff up and some parent years from now will need to be pointed back to this. If your son says they want to coach, make them read this and say this is what you might have to deal with. So you scouted a JV team for playoffs? Are you kidding me? When your son is not even starting? I am so lost in some of this I can't wrap my mind around it.
Earlier you said your son played on a team this summer that lost more than they won and then you say he played up in 16U and they went .500. I am so confused by this that I almost need cliff notes to keep up. I do know you are your son's worst enemy. YOU have ruined him from playing college ball and he hates his HS coach because of YOU. WOW. I have not been the best parent and I have not always done a great job of agreeing with my sons' coaches but never this.
This has to be a Top 10 Thread.
You all sure we're not being trolled??? Or is it possible that a dad can really be like this in real life?
Possible but highly unlikely, IMO. While there's plenty to make someone think that, there are certain elements of consistency throughout his many posts over 1 1/2 years since he first joined this thread way back on mid page 2, now nearing page 11. Besides, yes I have actually had more than a couple of "this dad" almost "to a T" in my programs in real life over the years. Yes, unfortunately, you can guess the fate of the sons with 100% accuracy.
To Anotherparent's point, I think we have all been there to a degree at times as parents. But most of us are like the other 3 or 4 on this thread that Anotherparent referenced. They came in, voiced their experiences and concerns, were given advice, listened to those who have been down the path, were talked down from the ledge where necessary, encouraged to look at things more rationally, took what they could from the conversations and moved on, most in a much better place than when they came in. Not the case with this one.
Over the course of the thread, the dad has let out that the player has at various points had attitude issues, had a bad throwing motion, tried to tell the coaches that it was the pitchers' fault that he couldn't throw out runners as a catcher and threw them under the bus, lacks size and power, among many other things. Yet, he continues to make excuses and defend the kid at every turn while putting all blame on the coach/es. Meanwhile, dad is making it very clear to the player and others in and around the program that he doesn't approve of the coach/es. This still going on after a year and a half of many here trying to talk him down from the ledge and convince him otherwise.
Back to the playoff series - So, you came up with a game strategy that you knew was much different than that of the coaches. You told your son, hoping "he would find it useful and share it with others" (Your exact words). Who were you hoping he would tell? If he did, how does that not get back to the coaches? How does this possibly not end very badly? What was your desired outcome, considering you are so successful at good outcomes in your profession? Were you hoping for a mutiny, where all the players would say "yeah, his dad has a much better plan! Let's quit on our coaches and try to get him to lead us to the promised land here in the playoffs!" Seriously, WT$ !!!
Oh, to be a fly on the wall!!!...I mean... A fly on the chain link fence around the dugout!
Baseball mom
when I coach one of the best travel teams in Calif, I would invite the parents into the dugout and explain my decisions. In the 6 years we played against 50 future MLB players. Every game drew 5-10 pro scouts.
From this experience I created the Area Code games and the players benefited from 300 scouts each game.
Travel to Santa Rosa and sit in the "dugout"
bob
Coach_May posted:When your son starts HS at 14 or 15 in ten short years he will be in his mid 20's. For the VAST majority of kids who play sports will it matter if he started? Will it matter if he could run a sub 7 60? Will it matter if he had a good arm? Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch? Will those things matter at all?
Ask yourself what will matter? What will always matter? What is really important? What will he need when you are no longer around? What will matter when you can't help? I go back to what is the REAL purpose of sports? What are you really hoping your son gets out of the experience? Would you rather your son be a MLB player and a total jerk? A MLB and have no relationship with him? A MLB player and is not a good man? Etc etc etc? Yes it's possible to have both.
It's a lot easier to look back and have proper perspective. The problem is the damage is done. Yes you can learn from your mistakes. But isn't better to learn from others mistakes? I know one thing it's a lot less painful.
Coach May, your posts are invaluable here. You really get it.
One thing that is funny is if you read this site enough, you do see the clueless parents like the guy in this thread who probably means well but just don't see how he is affecting his son. But you also see people still bragging and taking credit for what their kids did 10 or 15 years ago. Aside from how empty that bragging is, the point is that for the kids who DID start and succeed, THAT doesn't matter either. Bragging on how your kid was better than the kid of some other "clueless parent" is equally pathetic because it matters exactly zero that your kid was good 15 years ago. What kind of a person is he now, and what kind of a person are you?
Coach_May posted:Will it matter if he could hit a breaking pitch?
Yes
Wow there is a lot to read through here for someone just chiming in! I have come to really enjoy a ton of posts by Coach May, Cabbagedad, and many of you on the site, and the advice in this thread is great.
I am a high school teacher (though not a coach thank God) and I shoot as straight as I can with parents whose kids struggle. The biggest situation I run into is that the kid is just not all that interested in getting decent grades, or is not willing to work. With those kids whose parents "snowplow" the obstacles away for their children, I will typically ask them what they think will happen when their kids goes off to college or enters the real world and mom or dad are not there to help anymore. I will tell them about the valedictorian of my high school that flunked out of college his first semester because he didn't know how to do things or handle adversity himself.
I hear students everyday in my classroom talking about how coach only moved that kid up because he is his favorite, or how so and so is not "that good", or (insert excuse here).
I have a freshman, and my take is that it is all on him. I can try to help guide him in some key areas (and this site is amazing for that) but I have always told him that: if he is not talented enough, does not love the game enough, and is not willing to work hard enough then he may as well just have fun with it and take what he gets - because he will never be good enough to play at a higher level anyway.
Take these peoples' advice. Let your son fail. Make him be his own man.
I am much more concerned about what type of man my son will be at age 30 than "if" he gets to play a sport in college or not. Go google how many MLB guys realized their dream and played in the show for 2-3 years, and then see what they are doing now. The same things you and I are doing. Teaching, selling cars, running small businesses, coaching, working in the corporate world, etc.
I always try to keep this in mind - none of this crap is going to matter in 5 years anyway. Everything is going to work out as it is supposed to.