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Buckeye 2015 posted:
2020dad posted:

I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever.  But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?

It's the coach's job to win games...at least it used to be....now it seems like more and more it's a HS coach's job to keep everyone happy....players, parents, administrators, etc.   When I played in the early 80's our junior high football coach would put pads on and run over us in practice...the guy was nuts....but we just thought "hey, he's just making us better".  Not one person ever complained.  I ran into him a couple years ago and mentioned it while his wife was standing next to him.  She obviously had never heard the story.  We all got a good laugh out of it and he said "can you imagine if a coach did that today?".    6-7 years ago, a group of HS girls basketball parents essentially got a very good coach ran out of the program because they complained that "she yelled too much".  Keep in mind, some of these parents were friends of mine and their daughters were friends with my kids.  These parents were complaining about the HS coach when their daughters were in 6th grade....and just kept ramping up the pressure to the point that the coach was let go.  My daughter played for that coach a couple years earlier.  My daughter at the time was one of the quietest girls you'd ever meet.  I flat out asked her...."Does Coach #### yell too much".  She said "dad, no, she yells...but it's just how she is...it's not like she's really being mean".   I lost a lost of respect for those friends...and also the administration at my kids' school when they let the parents get away with running the program.

Well then...   'that parent' yells but it's just how he/she is...   what's the difference?

Over nineteen consecutive years I coached sixty plus kiddie ball to 18u travel teams in baseball, softball and basketball. I spent thirteen years on the baseball/softball board, eighteen on the basketball board and six on the overall community youth sports board. I was commissioner of fourteen leagues. If it didn’t happen to me, it happened to a fellow coach or it came to board meetings via parents or coaches or league commissioners 

The ugliest was when I didn’t allow a seven year old to play 8/9’ basketball who had somehow been sneaked illegally on to an 8/9 rec team as a six year old the previous year. Apparently, I was setting back a kid who was a future NBA star. His NBA dreams went down the drain when he didn’t make the freshman team.

The dad hacked the youth sports registration system. He sent out a blast email to thousands of people about the details of my divorce. Of course, none of what he emailed was true. Had it been I would have gone to jail. 

A board member who was also legal counsel for our youth sports organization told the person he was going to be allowed supervised access to send a blast public apology along with why he did it. Otherwise, he (the lawyer) would offer his legal services free of charge to me. 

Ironically, the kid became a D1 baseball player. The dad and I became good friends through LL about five years after the incident. Along the baseball journey we laughed about this incident. 

cabbagedad posted:
2020dad posted:

I guess my question is why when an old time hard ass coach goes off on defenseless kids do we laugh it off or say it will 'toughen them up' or whatever.  But the minute a parent does the exact same thing to a grown ass coach we are horrified and wanting to ostracize him and send him to Siberia?

... and you also said...

"There are way more crazy coach stories than crazy parent stories for sure."

Well, having had several of my own kids (and close friends kids) having gone through multiple sports, having been involved with coordinating many large format national youth/teen tournament events (direct exposure to thousands of parents and coaches) and having been in the coaching circles for dozens of years, that has definitely not been my experience.  Sure, there have been those coaches but there have been exponentially more crazy parent stories than crazy coach stories.

Look, the coach is in charge of the baseball program and the parent is in charge of the household.  A coach can't allow a parent to come into his program and start dictating the way things should be just as a parent wouldn't allow a coach to come into his household and start dictating the way things should be.  No one is sending a parent off to Siberia any more than a coach is held accountable for reasonable methods to his coaching.  Each needs to know his place and his responsibility.

You mentioned a previous scenario where you had a parent come to home plate in the middle of a game because you pinch hit for his kid.  This was right after you suggested that the notion of a crazy parent is fictional.  That is a crazy parent.  Not his place.  No reason or excuse can make that remotely sane or OK.  If a coach just "lets it go" with things like that (as you seem to suggest), he will quickly lose control of his household and ultimately, that becomes a crappy environment for the kids, which is the primary concern here.  And, yes, a coach has to have enough confidence and enough structure to his environment that 40 or however many players (and their parents) will follow enough to be part of something positive and productive instead of a dramatic $hit show.  That's what they are hired to do.

I think it's all about perception.  If the coach cusses out all the kids and we say he is just doing his job...   well then of course there will be exponentially more 'crazy' parents.  But I think if we hold coaches and parents to the exact same standards it would flip flop.  

Look I have been on all sides of this issue.  I have for sure said/done things I regret as a coach AND a parent.  I have been the target of the criticism.  Most of it unfair but I am sure some earned.  I always won.  It didn't always justify my approach.  As I get older I just feel like I have more perspective.   You really don't have to be a giant ass to win.  And no it is NOT acceptable for a coach to yell scream and demean in the name of controlling his house or winning.  There really is a middle ground.  Hopefully we can find it.  Especially baseball which is NOT a game of emotion.  Quite the opposite emotion can kill you.   If you have an issue with a kid bench him.  Remove him from the team if it's not fixable.   But what possible reason could there be for screaming???   As for dealing with parents it's a big whatever if you ask me.  They will be what they will be why would it matter?

2020dad wrote, "truth is the coaching profession breeds these attitudes.  It is changing for sure but unfortunately now we get decent people with no passion or knowledge for the game!!"

I couldn't have said that any better.........and it has been a huge source of frustration for me and for others like me that know the game.  My kids have played in 2 different 6A HS programs in Texas.  The profile of the HC at each of these HSs was exactly the same.  Benchwarmer in a weak HS program, attended a 2nd tier state university and got a PE degree & a teaching certificate, got hired by a large suburban school district, volunteered as an Asst. Baseball Coach, and advanced thru attrition as other coaches on staff left to pursue different opportunities. After 10 years both of them were Head Coach of their HS baseball programs.  Both are very decent men. Neither know the game. Both are more concerned about keeping parents and administration happy than anything else.  Both were insecure about having "baseball guys" around their program.  And both approached the job in a "punch the time card" fashion.  Never there early. Never stayed late to help a kid - cuz you cant teach what you don't know. 

Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.  

Wow, lot of stuff here.  First, if a "hard azz coach goes off on your kid," remove your kid if you think it unjustified.  Then, mount an effort to get the coach fired.  The question was asked what to do about the crazy parent going off on the coach.  Well, beware that that dumb coach might just respond in kind so be prepared.  Personally, if you want to dish it out, while I wouldn't want to do it in front of the players, I'll respond in kind and won't back down from anyone.  You asked what does it matter if a crazy parent does such and such.  Do you know that they know that there are limits?   Beware! 

So, you want stories of crazy parents, I've coached HS for 33 years and I've seen it all.  As many of you know, I've been the HC in 4 sports.  For the most part, the parents I have dealt with have been exception but having said that, I've been attacked by a parent before.  He hit me at least 8 times before I could get out from under him and get control over him.  When I let him go, he came at me again.  That didn't work out well for him.  My crime?  His son wasn't playing in a game.  This was in basketball and some of you know, there are playing time limits for players and quarters. This young man was playing on 3 levels and was a freshman. Long story short, this dad had a restraining order keeping him away from his son and family and he was mentally unstable.  Since he had a restraining order, he was not aware that his son was only going to play the 1st and 3rd quarters.   He was promptly arrested.  The worst example was something I mentioned here long ago.  I had a dad who was always yelling and screaming at ...  While we thought he might be drunk most of the time, he was outside the left field fence and in the parking lot.  That was until the day he decided to come out on the field to get after his son.  I helped him leave the field but had to do so in front of his son who he was trying to attack.  When that young man got home, his dad was waiting for him with a butcher knife and tried to kill him.  That dad went to prison and when those locked up with him found out what he did, well, he didn't live long.  

Look, there are crazy no good coaches.  There are crazy no good parents.  There are many in between.  The vast majority of both coaches and parents are fine people.  If a coach is abusive, get that coach removed.  However, know the difference.  For parents, take off the rose colored glasses and see your son for what he really is whatever that is.  Don't rationalize that it is the coach when you know deep down in your heart that your son doesn't have it.  

 

 

adbono posted:

 

Point being, and I have said this many times before, if you are lucky enough to have a good HS baseball coach you should count your lucky stars & do everything you can to support his program. A good coach should never be taken for granted.  

My son's high school coach is a decent man with a good baseball track record who cares about the boys he coaches, both as players and as men.  He is low key.  He likes to win, but I've never seen him raise his voice.  Maybe an eyebrow.  That's generally all it takes.  I am grateful he is coaching my son at this point in his life.

I didn't mean to turn this thread to coach-bashing.  Over the years, we have had mostly good experiences with coaches, and even the ones who weren't my favorites devoted many hours of their time to my son's teams.  We have also used the not-so-good coaches (as we have the not-so-good teachers) to teach our son that he will have to learn to get the job done even when he is dealing with difficult or deficient personalities.   While I don't condone screaming at or belittling players, at some point our sons have to figure out how to navigate rough waters, and my role as a high school parent generally (barring something really serious) is to support and counsel rather than intervene.

Here is my closing argument!   

I love sports.  I love coaching. I am now retired from it.  But I would never close the door to coaching again.  I am eternally grateful for the coaches who mentored me.  Some great people.  Some were always great and some went through some regretful moments like I did early in my career.  

I also believe from the bottom of my heart that there are a great many life's lessons and advantages for kids who play team sports.  Including how to deal with a maniac.  I would not pull my kid from a team with a maniac coach unless of course it endangered him somehow.  I like to think I teach my kids not to melt because some egocentric coach screams at him.  However I also teach my kids to stick up for themselves and never allow themselves to be minimized or berated by anyone including a coach.  However being kids puts them at a tremendous disadvantage and like most kids won't always stick up for themselves when they have to.  That's where parents sometimes need to get involved.  

I have also learned from this thread that maybe I was more well liked as a coach than I thought lol!   Other than the dad meeting me at home plate I never experienced any of the things some other have shared.  Or maybe I was just gifted with really good parents from really good schools.  Maybe a little of both.  

So in conclusion I agree with the old timers that players and parents need to be a little more thick skinned and not so soft.  But I guess where I depart with some on here is I think the coaches should be held to the same standard.  In fact really a higher standard.  After all we have coaches who are more than happy to tell us how great they are and how tough they are.  So then toughen up and don't worry so much about the parents.  Sports are a no snowflake zone - for players, parents and coaches alike!

And I'm not joking about the testosterone crisis.  If you don't already know about it do some research.  That's what's causing a lot of this and the downfall of sports and manhood in general.  

Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.

I’m sorry to hear this.  That must be really tough on your son. Are you and your son still discussing the situation? Does Your son know how you feel about his playing time?

Not all coaches would react that way but as your case demonstrates probably  not worth the risk. 

Still, I wonder if that is really what the coach is doing? He could’ve just cut your kid outright. How many games into the season are you and can you see a way for your son to talk to the coach about what’s happening? Or has that ship sailed?

 

Its pretty devastating. He has been on the bench in some pretty cold weather. Still early- 4 scrimmage games in. The one game he went in at the top of the 6th and had his throwing hand in his pocket to keep it warm. Coach saw that and benched him because he didn’t “look ready”. I have talked to my son and told him not to give up, and make the most of the time given to him. Still it is already wearing him down. Season ends in May. When the league games start, I’m afraid he won’t play at all. The scrimmage games are going to be his only opportunity to show something, but with maybe 1 at bat and an inning, it’s hard to show really anything. My son does not know that I emailed the coach. He knows I met with him in person, but does not know the whole story. I don’t want to tell him, as it will only make things worse. Im glad he didn’t get cut, as he still gets practice every day, but he is starting to hate baseball. It breaks my heart.

I don't mean to pile on you, but as a coach the things you are saying don't help your son's case.  If I send you on a tag, you should not know whether you are getting thrown out or not.  You are not to be looking back so how would your son know he was going to get thrown out unless he was watching the fielder and/or ball which are not supposed to be done.  If you come back, I'm probably pulling you right then. 

I can relate to the coach in the other situation you named.  I pulled my starting shortstop when he had his hand in his pocket while the pitcher was on the mound ready to pitch.  So, I can relate to the coach in both situations. 

I also disagree that a player can catch the wrath for a parent.  I have sent players home in travel ball because of how parents acted or things they said.  I also did not accept a great player because I did not want to deal with their dad so for the coach to keep your son is a plus.  I would probably have cut him rather than deal with it.  I know a lot of players that don't get offers in college because the coaches don't want to deal with the parents for two or four years. 

He didn’t have him tagging up. He had him running home on contact. My son knew he had to tag up, but didn’t want to go against the coach. He also didn’t want to be out. The coach admitted to my son he made a mistake. I have not had contact with the coach before or since the email, so categorizing me as “that parent” may be a stretch, although I do see your point of view with the pocket thing. In any case, my son is caught in the middle of this mess. He is a quiet kid, and very polite so he will never complain to the coach, so this is agonizing to him. I am powerless, except to just be supportive to him and encourage him to keep trying. I will definitely not ever speak to the coach, although I did encourage my son to speak to him. He is both too shy and proud to do it (which is why I sent the email in the first place). It is what it is. 

If the coach admitted he made the mistake, why did you suggest he's trying to make him look bad?  HS is a 4 year marathon, not a sprint.  Your son made the team and is getting early season action as a freshman.  Be positive, have him keep working hard, if he does his time will come.

I've encouraged my son to talk to his coach, in the past, but not in the first month of his freshman year.  I would just keep at it, keep his spirits up and focus on the positive and the things your son can control.

KTCOTB posted:

Here is my update from a post I made early this year or late last year. I was the parent that sent an angry email to my son’s baseball coach regarding playing time. This got mixed opinions on this forum ( understandably). Well, my son made the JV team as there is no freshman team, with the understanding that he would have limited playing time. The coach has made good on his word, limiting him to 1 at bat a game and an average of 1 1/2 innings in the field. Keep in mind he is on a weak team with only a handful of decent hitters. They have lost every scrimmage game so far. The coach has definitely not forgotten my email. The first scrimmage game he sent my son home on a fly ball deep enough to tag up. My son went halfway, knowing he would be out of he kept running, and made it back to 3rd. Everyone naturally thought that my son is just a bad base runner. I think the coach was trying to make him look bad, and he did. Keep in mind the guy played D3 baseball, so it was not ignorance. Then, in one of the scrimmage games my son hit a hard line drive back at the pitcher in his second at bat. Luckily for the pitcher he got his glove up in time to avoid a serious head injury (cringe worthy). After that, my son has not gotten more than one at bat. I think this coach is out to embarrass my son, and limit him, so he cannot show what he can really do. It’s sad to see an adult hold a grudge and make a child pay for a parents mistake. In a sad way it’s good to know what I am in store for the entire season. I know that he will continue to get little to no playing time, and will get humiliated whenever there is an opportunity. Let this be a lesson to any other parent. Just bite your tongue, because in the long run it is not worth it.

I'm sorry to be the ass now as I know it doesn't help now but you didn't get "mixed opinions", every single person in this thread told you to not do it and you did it anyway.

Normally I'm not doing this but in that case I think it needs to be said because i think you are not unlikely to continue those things because deep down you still think you did the right thing.

I think he now just need to sit it out, continue to work hard and hope next year is a better year.

Also maybe go to the coach and apologize for getting involved. Tell him you don't expect him to change his opinion but you made a mistake getting involved into things that are not your business and it won't happen again in the future. 

Maybe it will help or maybe not but at least if he goes to varsity you can have a fresh start.

But if you still think you did the right thing I fear you will do it to the next coach again and maybe even in college.

The last option would be to change to another school if you think it can't be repaired but then please do yourself and your son a favor and do a strict "stay out of baseball" policy for yourself.

I know you are not a bad person and I like you fight for your son but the discussion here shows that you are a very "enthusiastic" debater and it is not easy to have a constructive conversation with you. That is no knock against you as you are just very passionate and you have strong opinions but in some situations that can be detrimental and communcating with a HS or college coach (or an employer...) is one of those situations.

I'm sorry if this seems like beating the dead horse but I think it needed to be said as not making a JV team is not the end of the world and next year is a new year (maybe he can even right the ship this year) but continuing to do this will be very bad especially if your son starts to adopt some of your attitudes which seems to be the case considering some comments I read here.

Nothing is lost yet but I strongly recommend seeing this as a chance to learn and growth for both of you and not getting bitter and develope an attitude like anyone but me is an idiot and wants to hold me down.

Last edited by Dominik85

I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.

Thanks KTCOTB for being willing to come back and share.  That takes courage to admit mistakes, esp with the aim of helping other parents learn from your mistake.  I appreciate it.

The one thing I want to caution you about is the danger that you will see all of the coach's action in a negative light, even if it's not reality.  The baserunning issue from 3rd base was confusing.  Based on your initial post, we all thought it was a SC and the coach got mad at him for not running hard all the way home.  When you clarified that the coach sent him w/o tagging up, and the coach admitted he was wrong, my first thought was "what's the big deal then?".   The coach wanted your son to look bad but then he admitted he was wrong?  It doesn't compute.

“understanding that he would have limited playing time”

I’ve never heard of this except seniors who get uniforms for sticking it out. Everyone else is told their role. Non starters are told what they have to improve to earn more playing time. 

“my son has not gotten more than one at bat”

It’s important to always be physically and mentally ready. A baseball future can change on one at bat, one situation on the basepaths, one play in the field, hustle and/or proper attitude.

”I think this coach is out to embarrass my son.”

I’m not going to say this never happens. It rarely happens. It’s not worth the effort for the coach. It’s easier to cut the player. There might be a message here. Your son is good enough to be on the team. But, due to prior experience let’s wait and see how dad handles his son not playing much before he plays more. How your son and you handle the current situation could be determining whether the slate gets cleaned. 

 

 

KTCOTB posted:

I think you have me confused with another parent. I didn’t seek advice here before I sent the email. I wish I did, as I would have seen his stupid it was to do. Also, he did make the team, which I am happy about. The team is composed of about 13 freshman, and 5 sophomores. I did speak to the coach after I sent the email and apologized profusely for what I did. Not trying to be argumentative or confrontational, but I’m trying to keep the facts straight. I hope I’m wrong about my suspicion for this year. My intent with the post was to get it out there to other parents contemplating speaking to the coach- it’s a bad idea. I don’t want anyone else to suffer.

Yes, i might have confused you with the thread starter, sorry for that. Here were multiple parents in this thread debating the same thing (all were told to not do it).

I wish the coach had told my son what to work on to get more playing time. I wish he had told me when I met with him last year. He told me “he needs to be more confident”. I told him “ I can’t teach him confidence”. To that he replied, “well if you work with him and he gets better, he will be more confident”. This coach has had my son since 7th grade. I want to be an optimist and hope that he is seeing how we handle things, and there is no bad intentions on his part. I suppose I am playing devils advocate. But little things in such a short period of time add up in my head: the running home on a fly ball thing, benching him for having his hand in his pocket, and even yesterday, when my son grounded out with men on 2nd and 3rd, and I shook my head in disappointment. As the coach walked to the dugout I could see an ear to ear smile on his face. He was looking straight in my direction. Maybe this is all just conspiracy theories, I really hope so. Again, this will remain anonymous, no complaints directly to anyone affiliated with my son’s school, and I’ll see how it plays out. 

You will remain anonymous? 

“Hey coach! Guess what KT’s father said about you on a baseball discussion board!”

One thing a lot of posters on this board have advised their sons about how they carry themselves is ... Always act as if someone is watching. Because you never know. 

I just want to say one thing: I have seen a whole lot of parents of a whole lot of players on a whole lot of teams who would give up a lot to see their sons get one AB per game. That’s not a lot, but it’s much more than most subs get, and it’s enough of an opportunity to create an impression and even an impact. 

That’s what you should emphasize to your son, IMO.

Most of the time, the players who don't play as much simply don't work as hard as the starters.  I will allow that, especially as the funnel narrows at the higher levels, everybody works hard and there may be different criteria including talent or giving opportunities to an upperclassman on a college team over a freshman etc...

Anyways, this is a JV team.   You mean to tell me if this kid took 50 Grounders a day and an extra hour of BP a day, away from team practice, and lifted weights 4-5 days a week and worked on sprinting every other day, and did band work & long toss etc, that he couldn't take a spot in the JV starting lineup?!?!? 99 times out of 100, the reality is that the kid doesn't really care enough to work that hard & especially doesn't love the game enough to put that much time in it.  And there's nothing wrong with that, really

But the disconnect happens when the parents think the kid is entitled to playing time.  He isn't.

Last edited by 3and2Fastball

Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season. 

KTCOTB posted:

Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season. 

By the time my kids got to high school they decided they wanted to play college baseball/softball. They knew the commitment was a year round, at least five days per week effort of improving skills and physical development. They also played other high school sports. One graduated in the top 10% of the class. The other in the top 3%. 

When they got to college baseball/softball they were very aware they had two jobs. Time management and sacrifice would be required. Both were STEM majors in college. One had two minors.

My daughter attended an elite law school. She said after what she put herself through in high school and college law school was easy.  As a lawyer my daughter works her tail off. Dinner is just a break in the day. But she said she’s been working her tail off to be the best for so long it seems normal.

My kids decided early what they wanted, knew it wouldn’t be easy, committed and followed through. This story isn’t that special except to me as it’s my kids. There are plenty of other posters on this site with kids with the same story.

Last edited by RJM

KTCOTB, 

Yeah, thanks for coming back around with this.  I think many parents agonize a bit when trying to figure out how to "help" our kids with these situations.   And, sometimes, we can drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out all the surrounding circumstances that may contribute to the opportunities our kids get or don't get.

Question for you - you said your son made the team with the understanding that he would get minimal playing time.  What was the rationale behind that?   Was it just where he seemed to fall on the depth chart at the time when the teams were selected?  If so, it would certainly not be out of the ordinary for "player #12", for example, to be slated for 1-2 innings and 1 AB per game as the goal and adjust situationally.  That is similar to what we tried to do with our JV guys who were not currently seen as one of the "best 9" at a given time... 

You were an athlete at at least a fairly high level, you acknowledge your son hasn't received a lot of playing time for a few years.  You acknowledge he has a lack of confidence and said he gets more playing time in football.  You wrote the letter but apologized immediately afterward and assured the coach you would not be in the way going forward (therefore, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal by now, IMO).  Like ATLNON, I read your scenarios where you feel your son is being slighted due to "the letter" and, from a distance anyway, I'm just not convinced there is anything there.  I could certainly be wrong and will be interested to hear how things evolve.  Meanwhile, I would just continue having your son focus on working hard and working his way up the ladder.  You know the routine.  Control what you can control.  Outwork and outhustle the other guy.  When you, as a former athlete, can see clearly that his skill set has surpassed the rest of the group on a consistent basis, and he is still getting left out, then it may be time to figure out alternative actions.  But, meanwhile, try not to look for things to read into.

I don't think the coach hates your son as much as you are making him out to. Truthfully it seems like you don't like the coach and are using it to defend your son. I think bringing his scrimmage record into question supports that theory. 

Either way, the best thing you can do is work with your son and make him better. If extra reps, cage time, and lifting is going to make him burnt out, he was never going to last anyway. 

The best thing your son can do is go up to the coach and say - Hey I'm not playing, I don't like sitting and don't want to be in the same situation moving forward. Where do I need to improve the most, what should I be working on to get better and how can I help contribute now? 

He might tell you his role is to pinch run, he might say he can contribute by chasing foul balls and filling up water bottles. You might not like the answer, but what you do with that information is up to you guys. It should be an honest and frank conversation. And if it is the honest answer. Do it. Throw harder, more consistent at the plate, better footwork. Don't question it, don't argue it, don't bring it up again. Just do it. If it improves this season maybe he gets more playing time. If not he is only a freshman and has a year to fix the problems. 

This is a conversation your son needs to have. The only dialogue you should have with the coach moving forward is small talk in passing and any injury problems. 

PABaseball posted:

I don't think the coach hates your son as much as you are making him out to. Truthfully it seems like you don't like the coach and are using it to defend your son. I think bringing his scrimmage record into question supports that theory. 

Either way, the best thing you can do is work with your son and make him better. If extra reps, cage time, and lifting is going to make him burnt out, he was never going to last anyway. 

The best thing your son can do is go up to the coach and say - Hey I'm not playing, I don't like sitting and don't want to be in the same situation moving forward. Where do I need to improve the most, what should I be working on to get better and how can I help contribute now? 

He might tell you his role is to pinch run, he might say he can contribute by chasing foul balls and filling up water bottles. You might not like the answer, but what you do with that information is up to you guys. It should be an honest and frank conversation. And if it is the honest answer. Do it. Throw harder, more consistent at the plate, better footwork. Don't question it, don't argue it, don't bring it up again. Just do it. If it improves this season maybe he gets more playing time. If not he is only a freshman and has a year to fix the problems. 

This is a conversation your son needs to have. The only dialogue you should have with the coach moving forward is small talk in passing and any injury problems. 

In the word of Elanor Roosevelt " You wouldn't worry what others think of you if you realized how seldom they do"

I highly doubt your son is being punished for your interactions with the coach.

My MO through my son's HS/Travel baseball career was to simply thank them at the beginning and end of each season for their efforts.   That was the extent of my communication.  There was often much more i wanted to say, but I believed part of my son's baseball experience was to learn how to deal with his "boss"...........That is all.  

CaCO3Girl posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

I don't think anybody has pitching-related injuries completely figured out, but I do think ASMI and Dr. Andrews are as good anybody (and better than most).  And they definitely say sliders aren't for younger kids: 

 http://www.andrewsinstitute.co...Prevention/Baseball/

http://m.mlb.com/pitchsmart/risk-factors/

Do folks here have a different take?

My son was taught to throw a curve, due to his arm slot it became a slider.

As to different takes, yup.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/201...g-pitching-arms.html

http://amp.si.com/edge/2016/06...-baseball-prevention

Also, Dr. Andrews says don’t throw until you can shave.  My son was shaving by then, so it’s in line with Dr. Andrews thinking as well.

My son, too. He tried to throw a curve, but instead of the big, looping curve that most kids have it was a tight little break, with the dot. 

Oh, and the thinking has changed on what damages arms. Used to be that breaking pitches were blamed. Now it's velo, bad mechanics, and lack of arm rest.

Anyway, back to evil HS coaches.

Last edited by 57special

KTCOTB, I apologize.  I read it to say that the coach sent him home on the tag and he went halfway and thought he would get thrown out so he came back.  If the coach apologized, that is a big thing.  We as adults don't rarely do that to teenagers.  I still hold to the hand in the pocket thing but I did it to teach him a lesson and make a point to my team.  If we are out there, no matter how cold or rainy or hot, we must be ready to play or someone can take your spot who is.  never did it to show up that kid just to help him understand.  The smile may have been anything or it could have been that is why he is not playing more because he couldn't get the hit when he needed to.  But you also have to know it may have been something totally different.

Yes, there are kids who do all the things above and beyond.  My son hits almost every day by himself off the tee and hits on the field 3-4 days a week at night after practice.  He works out on his own and does his own stuff after practice.  Always has but it takes a lot of determination and drive because he wants baseball to be his future.  Not for everyone.

But the same way some of you talk about grades are the driving force for your kid, baseball is the driving force for my kid.  He spends time with his coaches when he doesn't have to during the summer and even of other teams to pick their brains.  He talked for 30 minutes with the opposing coach, pro coach/scout, at Jupiter to ask why he did certain things.  His goal is to be a college or pro coach after baseball is done so baseball is his future. 

KTCOTB posted:

Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season. 

I have tried to stay out of this.  I can't!  First, I doubt that the coach gives you the time of day and cares at all about that contact you had with him.  If so, he has put you in one category but, I'd believe that your son has not been punished for the sins of the parent.  Please forgive me but you are displaying incredible paranoia and I'd suggest that this is influencing your son.  Also, it appears to me that you are looking for excuses as to why your son is losing interest in games and not reasons that are pulling him away from the game.  Therefore, blame the coach.  In fact, set it up so that you have that way out when discussing your son and baseball by saying that your son had an evil coach who punished your child for what you did.  

You asked about the number of kids out there doing extra.  I'd suggest that there are thousands.  My kid did all of that and more and was also in every AP class she could take.  In saying this, she didn't have to be forced to do it and truly loved doing it.  In fact, she played both softball and golf for me.  She would leave a varsity golf match and my wife would drive her to her TB games or practices.  She was not special.  Look, sit down with your son.  Have a discussion with him and ask him if he has lost his love for the game and if he really wants to stop playing.  In reading through some of your posts, I believe he has but might now want to quit due to wanting to please you.  If he wants to keep playing, let him know you support him and ask him to be honest about his efforts when compared to his teammates.   The coach can not be a factor here as a scapegoat for all of your son's ills.  JMHO!

There are more factors at play, yes. And you are probably right- my son does not love baseball anymore. Ask yourself this though, if you continuously felt beat down doing something that you enjoyed, would you still enjoy it? Most people would probably say no. When something enjoyable becomes miserable and pointless, it’s hard to stay engaged. Still he plays on- going to practices, lessons, clinics. Why? Because while it is not the sport he once loved, it is still worth it to play. The alternative is to play video games, and hang out with kids who vape. No thanks. There are kids more talented and less talented than my son getting plenty of playing time. He sees that. And when the coach tells him “good contact” on a check swing weak groundout to 1st, it actually hurts his feelings, because he knows that the coach thinks he is garbage. His words, not mine. Maybe paranoia, but maybe there is something there too. Whatever happens, he is not a quitter, and I will not encourage him to quit, given the alternatives. 

KTCOTB posted:

Valid points guys, I won’t disagree. I’d love to know how many kids are working out 4-5 times a week, practicing, staying after for extra grounders and sprints, and also getting home to do their homework and keeping up good grades. Feel free to chime in if your son is doing that. If so, that’s awesome and I applaud him sincerely. While I can’t attest to other kids, I know my son works hard. He was lifting in the offseason, and gets private lessons as well as travel ball clinics. We tried the after practice workouts last year. He did extra bp, and fly balls after practice. It didn’t translate to more playing time, but rather almost burned him out. I appreciate all of the comments guys, it’s hard for you all to get a good grasp of the situation from one point of view. I hope my tune changes as we get deeper into the season. 

Yes, my kid did this kind of extra “work”. Also, it was a 45-60+ min drive each way. He often did his homework in the car while we were driving him there. I will say tho that not many other freshman/JV/Varsity kids in the program did this. Son had that D1 goal. Not every HS baseball player has aspirations of playing past high school. 

What I see unfolding I’ve seen many times before in sports and work. A person believes they’ve been wronged because they put in the effort. They don’t grasp how many others are putting in the EFFORT. The extra EFFORT often involves sacrifices others aren’t willing to make. Then, the others declare it’s unfair when they don’t get ahead.

Last edited by RJM

There is no mystery to playing time. There are no grudges against parents or players. High school coaches play the kids that help them WIN games. Period. Now, can a player piss off a coach ? sure. But a coach doesn't hold on to that too long. Maybe a few days. But once again the bottom line is they play the kids that help them WIN. It's the same in college.

If a kid is unhappy about playing time he needs to go to the coach ( never the parent ) and ask him a simple question ' What do I have to do to get into the line up? ' At that point most coaches will tell them exactly what they need to do. And more times than not it's generally the same answer. If they're a position player , it's going to be ' You need to hit the ball' and if they're a pitcher its gonna be ' You need to get outs'

If your son is a position player and he doesn't hit, he will sit. If your son is a pitcher and he doesn't get outs or throw strikes he will not get innings. It's that simple.

The good news is that if a player does in fact speak to the coach then goes off and improves his swing w/ a private hitting instructor or a pitcher develops a better delivery or a new pitch via a private pitching coach , they have every right to go to the coach later and say ' Coach can you watch my BP I've figured some stuff out" or " Coach can you come watch my pen, I figured a couple of things out'

Lastly , Parents should NEVER talk about playing time with the Coach. There are only really 3 times a parent should speak to a coach

1) Fundraising

2) Player Health / Injury/ Arm care ( pitcher )

3) Academic issues

 Everything else that happens on the baseball field that doesn't involve the aforementioned is none of your business

Last edited by StrainedOblique

Typical advice above and good, but it does not fit everyone's situation. My sons whole high school team was told if you want to play you have to hit. He has played 3 years now of his five and has lead his team in hits avg and other offensive stats every year. He was runner up for mvp on the freshman team, mvp on jv and in the running again for mvp this year on jv. He has never been asked to move up a level during a season while many others have and were later dropped back down for poor play. His first year coach told him the second year that he did not like him, and from the looks of it, I think he still feels the same way. My son was not put on Varsity at the beginning of this year, but he has been killing it on JV batting clean up and playing the first 3 innings in rf. He is always the first to get rotated out of the lineup while he is the most experience at the jv level on the team. Others play the entire time and never sit. I mean never, even when we are winning by 18 or if the player is 0 for 7 with 5 k's in a row, he will still play cf and leadoff every time and be asked to move up to Varsity as a freshman batting .287 on the jv team. We have 3 players batting close to .500 now with my son leading the way. This coaching staff has lost a few good players because they were treated the same bad way, while they out played most of the others. My son and one other right now are the last ones I see getting strange treatment while doing great. I think they both will stick it out though. The coach has said that he has already made up his mind for the varsity roster going in to region play and playoffs, but this week he will pick a few to dress out and practice with varsity. I don't think my son will be picked again. Coaches don't always pick the best to win. You can tell by the lineup and stats. Coaches have also done things to players during a game to make them look bad. Tie game last inning no outs, fastest runner on 1st has the most steals on the team 21. The catcher has thrown no one out all day, he doesn't have the arm. Man on first never gets the steal sign after 5 pitches he gets hit and run. Batter hits into double play. Next batter gets out game over. Was the coach dumb, didn't want to win, or holding a grudge against my son. This was the last game of the season against our tuffest opponent. My son longs for summer ball, real baseball he says. Playing for real coaches and facing competitive pitchers.

Perception is a powerful force.

I once had a team that was not the most talented kids but ones who love to play. Two times we were winning by a run with two outs in the bottom of the 7th against highly ranked teams. Being a team that, at the time lost more than we won, we were so pumped to be in that situation. Other teams came over to the field and watch. Both times the same player missed a ground ball between his legs and we lost. I'm not one who believes that a game is lost on one play, but my "perception" of that player was he can't handle pressure. 

In high school I had a friend who was a little cocky and lazy. Coaches were always on his but. One day he told me that he was getting tired of how the coaches acted towards him. I had a heart to heart talk with him. Told him he the coaches perception of him was a lazy, cocky average player. Basically told him he needed to work harder in practice and shut his mouth. He listened, it took awhile but the coaches did change the way they acted towards him. He changed their perception of him.

 

 

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