I guess it's not just a game anymore...

Any idea why they would do that after more than 1/3 of the season is over? Making room to bring in another pitcher? Doing him a favor because they weren't going to use him anymore?

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

Did he get the call from the summer coach or his college coach?   Seems really strange that the summer league team would do that, unless the kid has caused issues with the team, which is doesn't sound like has been the case.   If it's the college coach, I'm wondering why they didn't tell him right after the season ended instead of waiting a month and a half

I don't know where your son is playing or if it's at a similar level, but the other day I was checking out the Cape Cod League website to see how a couple of guys we know are doing (really well) and I clicked on the transactions page.

Absolutely brutal.

http://pointstreak.com/basebal...&seasonid=31242#

At least he is on a team and can now use the rest of the summer to showcase for other schools. It still is too bad. If he was released at the end of Spring, it may have been difficult to find a way to showcase.

JCG posted:

I don't know where your son is playing or if it's at a similar level, but the other day I was checking out the Cape Cod League website to see how a couple of guys we know are doing (really well) and I clicked on the transactions page.

Absolutely brutal.

http://pointstreak.com/basebal...&seasonid=31242#

Keep in mind that many of these players released were temps until the post season was over.

As to RedFish's response, he is right, the coaches have to notify players by the 30th. 

A kid I know playing in the Cape League bounced a throw into second on a steal early in a game. The game ended when he threw the ball into left on a steal of third. He was released after the game. The fourth game of the season. 

You see a lot of activations and releases as teams get eliminated from Super Regionals and the CWS. 

Sorry, rereading I was vague. His college coach was the one who called  A B10 school.

not uncommon -  even at "guaranteed 4 year scholarship" programs.    Coach figured out after the draft who he had coming back, and what incoming freshmen and/or juco players were actually going to show up, so he needs to free up money.  that kid gets the phone call and he's out.    just a business decision for the coach.  sucks for the kid and his family.  We experienced it first hand.  Unfortunately this is the state of D1 college baseball.  

RedFishFool posted:

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

pabaseballdad posted:

not uncommon -  even at "guaranteed 4 year scholarship" programs.    Coach figured out after the draft who he had coming back, and what incoming freshmen and/or juco players were actually going to show up, so he needs to free up money.  that kid gets the phone call and he's out.    just a business decision for the coach.  sucks for the kid and his family.  We experienced it first hand.  Unfortunately this is the state of D1 college baseball.  

Can someone explain how the guaranteed 4 year school is allowed to pull the offer? Is the "guarantee" actually a performance based deal?

Zia2021 posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

not uncommon -  even at "guaranteed 4 year scholarship" programs.    Coach figured out after the draft who he had coming back, and what incoming freshmen and/or juco players were actually going to show up, so he needs to free up money.  that kid gets the phone call and he's out.    just a business decision for the coach.  sucks for the kid and his family.  We experienced it first hand.  Unfortunately this is the state of D1 college baseball.  

Can someone explain how the guaranteed 4 year school is allowed to pull the offer? Is the "guarantee" actually a performance based deal?

heres a hypothetical conversation.  

Coach:   "son. It doesn't look like your going to get on the field next year, you want to play and get better don't you ?    

Kid: uh...   I guess so coach

Coach:   Give this juco coach a call.   I spoke to him for you- full ride   Call him tonight   He needs an answer quickly.  

Kid:   Uh.... ok coach

now technically. In this situation.  Did the kid get cut or did he choose to leave ?   

Zia2021 posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

not uncommon -  even at "guaranteed 4 year scholarship" programs.    Coach figured out after the draft who he had coming back, and what incoming freshmen and/or juco players were actually going to show up, so he needs to free up money.  that kid gets the phone call and he's out.    just a business decision for the coach.  sucks for the kid and his family.  We experienced it first hand.  Unfortunately this is the state of D1 college baseball.  

Can someone explain how the guaranteed 4 year school is allowed to pull the offer? Is the "guarantee" actually a performance based deal?

No it's not performance based.  I think what happens is the Coach tells the player that he will not play and/or otherwise makes the player's life miserable to the point where he feels it is better to move on than to stay where he's not wanted and will not get an opportunity.  In reality it seems like a pretty empty guarantee.  Hopefully most programs (or ADs at the school) won't let the Coach get away with this - develop your players don't push them out!  But that probably is naive and not the case.  The AD is either unaware or looks the other way in the interest of "winning".

Thanks for the explanations. 

pabaseballdad posted

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

I would just like to add a few points. It's not always about freeing up money.

Most of the time, the player that is asked to transfer is because they didn't buy into the program. Coaches have rules and expectations, if you don't meet them, you are asked to leave.  You only get so many chances. And it could be as innocent as being late to meetings, instruction, practice, missing your classes, issues during the game or how you get along with your teammates.  But too many reminders don't work after awhile.

Sometimes, the player didn't belong at a D1 program in the first place.  Many D2 programs have drop down players,or from Juco, that end up being successful where they failed before. Going from one D1 program to the next isnt always the answer.

Sometimes it's a personality issue.  Just remember, players often don't like their coaches,  and often the coaches don't like the player. It works both ways.

ZIA2021,

Not all d1 programs offer guaranteed 4 year scholarships.

TPM posted:

pabaseballdad posted

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

I would just like to add a few points. It's not always about freeing up money.

Most of the time, the player that is asked to transfer is because they didn't buy into the program. Coaches have rules and expectations, if you don't meet them, you are asked to leave.  You only get so many chances. And it could be as innocent as being late to meetings, instruction, practice, missing your classes, issues during the game or how you get along with your teammates.  But too many reminders don't work after awhile.

Sometimes, the player didn't belong at a D1 program in the first place.  Many D2 programs have drop down players,or from Juco, that end up being successful where they failed before. Going from one D1 program to the next isnt always the answer.

Sometimes it's a personality issue.  Just remember, players often don't like their coaches,  and often the coaches don't like the player. It works both ways.

ZIA2021,

Not all d1 programs offer guaranteed 4 year scholarships.

All good points, however none have anything to do with pabaseballdad's assertion, which is the NCAA transfer rule is an abomination that has little to no consideration of the student athlete's best interest (which is what I'm led to believe their mission is from the TV commercials crammed down our throats during their various sports playoffs.

If a kid is not welcomed back to his team by the coach for ANY reason, then what justification should the NCAA have in "blocking" the kid from playing at a different D1 that would otherwise welcome him?  I get if the kid simply wants to leave after a season and is the instigator of leaving the program, but if it is the program effectively saying to the player, "we don't want you back", what sense does the year sit out make?  And don't throw the "need a year to adjust" nonsense response.  If that's the case, then no freshman should ever be allowed to compete in their first year as I'd argue there is a greater adjustment from HS to college than from one college to another.

Nuke you also make a good point. And I hate the transfer rule. But how would the NCAA determine if it was the player wanting to leave or the coach pushing the player out?  And then, if there was a way to determine this, it would probably be some sort of public record, not a good look for the coach, and school right?  It’s much easier for schools and NCAA to just sweep it under the rug and lump everyone into the same category. 

Nuke83 posted:

TPM posted:

pabaseballdad posted

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

I would just like to add a few points. It's not always about freeing up money.

Most of the time, the player that is asked to transfer is because they didn't buy into the program. Coaches have rules and expectations, if you don't meet them, you are asked to leave.  You only get so many chances. And it could be as innocent as being late to meetings, instruction, practice, missing your classes, issues during the game or how you get along with your teammates.  But too many reminders don't work after awhile.

Sometimes, the player didn't belong at a D1 program in the first place.  Many D2 programs have drop down players,or from Juco, that end up being successful where they failed before. Going from one D1 program to the next isnt always the answer.

Sometimes it's a personality issue.  Just remember, players often don't like their coaches,  and often the coaches don't like the player. It works both ways.

ZIA2021,

Not all d1 programs offer guaranteed 4 year scholarships.

All good points, however none have anything to do with pabaseballdad's assertion, which is the NCAA transfer rule is an abomination that has little to no consideration of the student athlete's best interest (which is what I'm led to believe their mission is from the TV commercials crammed down our throats during their various sports playoffs.

If a kid is not welcomed back to his team by the coach for ANY reason, then what justification should the NCAA have in "blocking" the kid from playing at a different D1 that would otherwise welcome him?  I get if the kid simply wants to leave after a season and is the instigator of leaving the program, but if it is the program effectively saying to the player, "we don't want you back", what sense does the year sit out make?  And don't throw the "need a year to adjust" nonsense response.  If that's the case, then no freshman should ever be allowed to compete in their first year as I'd argue there is a greater adjustment from HS to college than from one college to another.

You don't have to sit out a year, only at a D1. Let's not forget the purpose of going to college is about getting a degree.  There are plenty of great opportunities at different divisions.

And as I always remind others, the rule was created because student athletes were not graduating on time, if not at all.

pabaseballdad posted:

RedFishFool posted:

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

Yet another reason I simply cannot stand the NCAA.  While we were never affected this or other bad scenarios - NCAA TV ads make me feel anger inside because I've seen these things happen to teammates and friends.

It sucks.  There is nothing for me to admire about the NCAA.  If I were king, I'd end it and start something else over.

TPM posted:

Nuke83 posted:

TPM posted:

pabaseballdad posted

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

I would just like to add a few points. It's not always about freeing up money.

Most of the time, the player that is asked to transfer is because they didn't buy into the program. Coaches have rules and expectations, if you don't meet them, you are asked to leave.  You only get so many chances. And it could be as innocent as being late to meetings, instruction, practice, missing your classes, issues during the game or how you get along with your teammates.  But too many reminders don't work after awhile.

Sometimes, the player didn't belong at a D1 program in the first place.  Many D2 programs have drop down players,or from Juco, that end up being successful where they failed before. Going from one D1 program to the next isnt always the answer.

Sometimes it's a personality issue.  Just remember, players often don't like their coaches,  and often the coaches don't like the player. It works both ways.

ZIA2021,

Not all d1 programs offer guaranteed 4 year scholarships.

All good points, however none have anything to do with pabaseballdad's assertion, which is the NCAA transfer rule is an abomination that has little to no consideration of the student athlete's best interest (which is what I'm led to believe their mission is from the TV commercials crammed down our throats during their various sports playoffs.

If a kid is not welcomed back to his team by the coach for ANY reason, then what justification should the NCAA have in "blocking" the kid from playing at a different D1 that would otherwise welcome him?  I get if the kid simply wants to leave after a season and is the instigator of leaving the program, but if it is the program effectively saying to the player, "we don't want you back", what sense does the year sit out make?  And don't throw the "need a year to adjust" nonsense response.  If that's the case, then no freshman should ever be allowed to compete in their first year as I'd argue there is a greater adjustment from HS to college than from one college to another.

You don't have to sit out a year, only at a D1. Let's not forget the purpose of going to college is about getting a degree.  There are plenty of great opportunities at different divisions.

And as I always remind others, the rule was created because student athletes were not graduating on time, if not at all.

However, student-athletes graduate at a higher rate than regular students.

Picture this if the NCAA was in charge of regular students ... I’m sorry. If you want to leave school to start working you will have to sit out a year before you can work.

justbaseball posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

RedFishFool posted:

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

Yet another reason I simply cannot stand the NCAA.  While we were never affected this or other bad scenarios - NCAA TV ads make me feel anger inside because I've seen these things happen to teammates and friends.

It sucks.  There is nothing for me to admire about the NCAA.  If I were king, I'd end it and start something else over.

The NCAA ads are sooooooo misleading. 

RJM posted:

justbaseball posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

RedFishFool posted:

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

Yet another reason I simply cannot stand the NCAA.  While we were never affected this or other bad scenarios - NCAA TV ads make me feel anger inside because I've seen these things happen to teammates and friends.

It sucks.  There is nothing for me to admire about the NCAA.  If I were king, I'd end it and start something else over.

The NCAA ads are sooooooo misleading. 

What, you don't believe that a diploma is more valuable than a multi million dollar contract, a championship ring, and induction into the hall of fame  

SomeBaseballDad posted:

RJM posted:

justbaseball posted:

pabaseballdad posted:

RedFishFool posted:

It is my understanding that the college coach has to make a decision by June 30 and player must be told.

What is a shame is college sending the "student-athlete" to who knows where, the expenses associated with same and then all for naught. Tell before they leave for the Summer!!!

and the NCAA rule on transfer is disgraceful.  The kid gets cut, and now even if another d1 school would take him,  he has to sit a year.  makes no sense in any world.  can't justify it, no matter how you look at it. 

Yet another reason I simply cannot stand the NCAA.  While we were never affected this or other bad scenarios - NCAA TV ads make me feel anger inside because I've seen these things happen to teammates and friends.

It sucks.  There is nothing for me to admire about the NCAA.  If I were king, I'd end it and start something else over.

The NCAA ads are sooooooo misleading. 

What, you don't believe that a diploma is more valuable than a multi million dollar contract, a championship ring, and induction into the hall of fame  

That ad is so illogical I just shook my head every time I saw it. 

The NCAA is simply a legal platform to generate revenue for themselves, powerful college conference presidents, and the media.   The idea that the student athlete is any part of this is a grand illusion.  I firmly believe this.

SomebaseballDad - Sorry to hear your son is seeing this side of the game, but it was going to eventually happen.  There is so much player competition and coaching pressure to get results that these things are going happen....sometimes without explanation  The best anyone can do is try to stay healthy (the hardest thing in college baseball), and do their best to compete everyday.   Good luck!

I don't know where your son is playing or if it's at a similar level, but the other day I was checking out the Cape Cod League website to see how a couple of guys we know are doing (really well) and I clicked on the transactions page.

Absolutely brutal.

http://pointstreak.com/basebal...&seasonid=31242#

Thanks for providing a link, one team here has activated 40 different players in the last 19 days. Wow

compare posted:

I don't know where your son is playing or if it's at a similar level, but the other day I was checking out the Cape Cod League website to see how a couple of guys we know are doing (really well) and I clicked on the transactions page.

Absolutely brutal.

http://pointstreak.com/basebal...&seasonid=31242#

Thanks for providing a link, one team here has activated 40 different players in the last 19 days. Wow

I noticed some guys activated (resulting in the release of someone else), that were in Omaha. I think  that needs to be taken into consideration.

I kind of compare this to milb transactions. It's pretty active this time of year, replacing current guys to make a spot for the newly drafted.