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Much as I despise the Yanks, I think the ump made a big mistake here...

http://www.nj.com/yankees/inde...ek_jeter_he_did.html


NEW YORK -- When Derek Jeter was called out attempting to steal third base with no one out, he asked third base umpire Marty Foster for a reason.

Jeter thought he was safe. The ball had beaten him there, but he moved his left hand around Scott Rolen's glove and replays showed he touched the bag before Rolen's tag.
"He didn't tag me," Jeter told Foster.

"He didn't have to," Foster said, according to Jeter. "The ball beat you."

Jeter was incensed. He followed Foster as he walked away to argue. Third base coach Rob Thomson restrained Jeter as Yankees manager Joe Girardi ran toward third looking for an explanation. ("Jete's not going to argue unless he's safe," Girardi said. "That's the type of player that Derek Jeter is.")

So less than a minute later, when Girardi received the same reasoning Jeter did, the manager was ejected.

"I didn't care for the explanation," Girardi said. "Just leave it at that. There has to be more to it."

Jeter, who rarely argues any call, couldn't believe what he was told.

"I was baffled by the explanation," Jeter said. "I was told I was out because the ball beat me and he didn't have to tag me. I was unaware of that change in the rules."

Foster was not made available to reporters after the game. Crew chief John Hirschbeck said Jeter may have been in the right, but couldn't say for sure. He had not spoken to Foster about his exchange with Jeter.

"It would make (Jeter's) actions seem appropriate if that's what he was told," Hirschbeck told reporters. "It used to be if the ball beat you, you were out, but it isn't that way anymore. It's not a reason to call someone out. You have to make a good tag."

Girardi said Jeter's decision to try and steal third with none out in the first inning is the right move -- only if he makes it safely to third.

"The idea to be aggressive, I don't have a problem with," Girardi said. "But you have to make sure that you're right. And he got called out."

It's the old baseball adage: When the throw beats the runner, the call is already made. Jeter said it only bothers him when he is the victim of such a play. Plenty of times before, he said, that call has benefitted him.

But he had never heard an umpire say that he didn't have to be tagged out.

"That's why I turned around," Jeter said.

Jeter, who said he has never been tossed from any game he's played on any level, said he wasn't close to being ejected. That's because he said he couldn't argue with Foster's bizarre reasoning.

Even Hirschbeck was surprised at Jeter's reaction.

"In my 27 years in the big leagues, he is probably the classiest person I've been around," Hirschbeck said.

Girardi took care of the arguing.

"An out is an out. And safe is safe," Girardi said. "I'm not a big believer in perception is reality. You're either out or you're safe."
Last edited {1}
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Foster called the play according to his rules - not the rules of baseball.

And he wasn't shy in letting people know that.

He believes - regardless of the rules - that if the ball beats you to the base you are out. The tag doesnt matter.

Now that this nonsense is over - the Commissioner of baseball should not be shy when he sits down to chat with Mr. Foster.
IMO - He should tell him that he is an umpire - and that he is charged with the responsibility of calling the game according to the rules of the game. Not according to the Foster rules of baseball.

He needs to call the game - and then shut his mouth.

If Foster does it again - he can go find a different form of employment. Baseball doesnt need him.
Last edited by itsinthegame
First time in my life, but I agree with a Yankee-Jeter should have been furious. Why should an umpire take the easy way out and only judge if the ball gets there first, and ignore whether the tag was made before the base is touched? It happens all the time, we see it almost every game.

To add to the question, why shouldn't they either change the strike zone in the rule book, or have the umpires call it by the book? Ignoring the official rulebook just creates mild contempt, in effect substituting the umpire's judgment for a rule of the game. If a ball high in the rule book strike zone is truly unhittable, then time to change the book. If the whole zone is called, I can guarantee that games would go much faster-batters would actually consider swinging before the count gets to 2 strikes.


Foster should be sent back to parks and rec ball for that comment, but at least he was honest. Unfortunately, his honesty displayed his incompetency. Can't win 'em all.
If the umpire is going to use the excuse "that the ball beat him there", then MLB needs to make every play a force play and take away the interpretation of the rule. That is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.

What I find more egregious is the fact that the umpire knew he was wrong and threw out the manager for arguing. Weird to me. MLB cannot fine players and managers for arguing and ignore the umpires poor behavior.
I might be wrong but I think this situation happens a lot. I have seen numerous times where the fielder has the ball waiting for the slide and the runner is usually called out. If it never happend before why would Rolen just casually keep the glove at the bag.

Maybe the ump should not have admitted it, but IMO it is an unwritten rule about the ball beating the runner in these situations.

I don't think this would have made national headlines if it didn't involve the Yankees and especially Jeter.
There is some validity to the ball beat you to the bag argument as long as the tag doesn't clearly miss the runner. If the umpire is uncertain as to if the tag was made or not then the criteria is going to be how much the throw beat the runner by. Tag plays can be very difficult to call correctly.
WOW!
This is really interesting. Especially that umpire forum. I don't quite know what to say about it.

Although I have to admit I am not in a charitable mood after spending a weekend watching 8 games in a 19U tournament where the officiating was uniformly incompetent. Not just blown calls and ridiculously inconsistent strike zones, but outright ignorance of rules.

That umpire forum makes it pretty clear that at least one prevailing view among the annointed few is that the letter of the rules don't apply, that THEY get to decide when circumstances dictate that the rules are irrelevant.

The problem with this, of course, is there are no logical boundaries. Just as we are a nation of laws, not of men, so too baseball is a game of rules, not arbitrary rulers.

As I said, VERY INTERESTING.
Last edited by Rob Kremer
More fun than these arrogant chat room posts... are the many umpire forum discussions where they detail "personal" rationale for their "individual" strike zones.

as in......

"MY strike zone is like this", before filling-in-the-blank as to why (and how) they ignore the book zone according to every conceivable game situation.
If the umpire saw an attempted tag and the ball got there first and the fielder even missed the tag after seeing it in on replay, then I don't see a problem with the ump's call and can easily back up his claim he called the play as he saw it, but if the umpire, as in this case, flat out admits he had the runner out because the ball got there first and saw no reason in his mind to even make sure the fielder attempts to apply the tag says this umpire had zero chance in getting the call right because he has his own rules.
Last edited by zombywoof

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