I thought Daddy ball was bad

onsecond posted:

I was always looking forward to HS ball because the perceived notion was that if you outplayed, out hustled, and out worked the other guy, you would at least get a shot.

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

I understand that it is not possible to get everyone in when you carry more than 9 on the roster. But, how do you expect to keep the kids coming back if there is no hope of any playing time? How do you keep positive chemistry when the 2nd or 3rd  stringer is hoping someone fails big and consistently so they can (possibly) move up.

I understand that paying the booster fees is no guarantee of playing time. However, these fees can get very expensive depending on the program. Surely ($900- $2,000 in my area), there has to be some balance and equitable distribution of playing time. Not every game is the 7th game of the World Series.

Some will argue that the practice time alone is worth the fees and that is debatable but, if you are not getting game reps you are not getting better, you are falling behind.

 

<rant over>...for now

Welcome to real life HS baseball. Nothing you can do about it. It is out of your control. All you can do is have your son keep trying to get better.  There are good HS coaches and very good programs and there are some that are not very good.  

Very tough thing. In high school it's not so much daddy ball but sometimes it's about giving some kids preferences over others because of the travel programs they play for and how much influence those programs have on the coaches.  Not easy to deal with.  StandBallDad is right, keep son grinding hard.

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

Every HS team and situation will be different. My son shines on a historically mediocre team (just demographics) but just a few miles away it would be cut-throat to get playing time and ABs, and the whole "HS politics" might step-in and take charge.

Come over to our HS - 35 man Varsity roster.  HS is for the kids to play together with their friends, practice hard, and hope they get a shot.  We are in the top 10 every year.  Oh, that's for fund raising.

I have to say, the OP presents a modern day problem that controls high school ball. There is now an idea that because the parents put up large amounts of money, there should be some PT involved. I understand that. However, that's not what high school ball is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about putting on that uniform for the school and being a part of the team, regardless of playing time. However, the shift of funding from schools to the families has changed things drastically. When you are requiring parents to put out that kind of money to play for the high school, you're now running your team like a club sport rather than a school sport and there should be no surprise when parents start feeling like they should get something for their money. HS ball is supposed to be about the community, but it's hard to feel that way when the community (through school tax support) isn't funding the team.

Is he generally only playing the top 9, even in blowout games? I think HS ball is about performance but a coach should still look to give the bench players some reps. Even MLB coaches give the 4th outfielders and utility guys regular playing time to keep them sharp, don't carry player on the roster that you can't use at all.

but of course at higher levels there is no equal playing time like in little league, the better players are going to play most of the time and especially when it is close.

I think it really depends on how your high school is set up.  Around my parts we have three levels - freshman, sophomore and Varsity (plus a small JV schedule).

Now my issue has been that at the lower levels, it should be about getting all of the kids ready to compete at the Varsity level as opposed to "winning."  But it is even worse when you school isn't talented enough to "win."  So rotate as much as possible.  Game reps are important. 

Varsity is a different matter -- the best 9+ play.  You're goal is to win every game thru the State championship.  If the lower levels did their job, the competition should be fierce to be one of those 9. 

Just my opinion. 

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

onsecond posted:

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

It's also how my son earned his way into the lineup in college.  He did it by showing what he had in practice.  Then he had to keep performing at that level to keep his starting position.  There is always somebody waiting for a chance behind you.

It's tough, no question, and there are no easy answers.  The only thing I know to do is to root for every kid on the team just like he was your own. 

This weekend I happened to be at an non-baseball event attended by a bunch of kids associated with the baseball program. There were a couple current starters, a kid who rides pine, a two kids who were cut, and one who quit due to lack of PT.  They were clearly a group of good friends all having a great time together, and if you didn't know which kid was which you would not be able to tell them apart.  My point is that it's always harder on us than it is on them.

 

Don't really like to stir the pot, but I find it interesting there are multiple starting freshmen which I assume none of the "three" mentioned are pitchers.  Not sure if the program has a JV team, much less a freshman team, but if so, I would have to assume coach is trying to send a strong message or is simply rolling with the freshman in hopes of having better teams in years to come.  I am curious as to whether there are JV/freshmen teams and and number of kids, by class, in the entire program.  Would also be interested in the win percentage.  Not trying to figure out who the team is, just looking for ballpark figures (pun intended).

The blowout games - either way - should always provide an opportunity to get 2nd and 3rd string guys on the field and get some live at bats.  If that is not happening, then either the coach has some reason he is not playing the other guys or he is simply not a very bright coach.  Does he have any other quirks?

onsecond posted:

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

 

Of course I have absolutely no idea who your son is or if this applies, so please don't take it personally or a reflection of the talent your son may or may not have.  From your post, it sounds as though your son is a Junior.  It may very well be that your son isn't (and won't be) talented enough to be a starter for his school.  To that point, the varsity coach will likely be there longer than your son and is playing for the future.  By playing some of his frosh/soph's who may be his starters in the next year or two, he's planning for longer term success of the program, long after your son is gone.

That presents a dilemma for many coaches and I've seen our HS coach struggle with this.  You have loyal, good families pay their dues (monetary and through blood, sweat and tears) through JV for a couple of years. Come junior year, it's make varsity or nothing (unless working back from an injury).  So for those bubble kids, the choice is to cut them (often times breaking the kids heart), or keep them with little to no chance of seeing the field  What do you do?  If you ask 100 parents of juniors, it would probably be close to 50/50 in what they'd prefer.  My guess is that the split between players would be similar.  There's always that hope that they'll get their shot.  If they're not on the roster, there's absolutely no shot.

So a coach will carry a kid or two who probably shouldn't be there.  Then play underclassmen ahead of them because, frankly, that's what he should be doing for the program.  For many coaches the belief is that a kid will be happy to wear the school jersey and be part of the varsity team rather than be cut.  Parents who write the checks and feel the pain of seeing their kid on the bench have a different perspective than the coach.  

I get it, it's tough for both sides.  

FoxDad posted:

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

I used to argue this same point with a buddy of mine who lives in NJ and whose son played on a NJ HS team. But after a while, it became abundantly clear that non-baseball factors played a role, e.g., $ contributions to the program, networking, etc. There was nothing my friend's son could do on the practice field nor playing field to make a difference.

We all know that non-business factors impact business decisions, and as working adults, we have to deal with it. But at the HS athletics level? It's simply bulls h i t. No child should have to be in this situation.

ONSECOND: I hope there's a way for you to switch schools where the playing field is not slanted towards non-playing field factors.

PLEEEEEZZZE don't be "one of those parents"! HS ball is the time for these guys to really learn the game & what TEAM is all about. 

I doubt your son won't boot a ball, drop a fly or never strike out in his career. Let HIM enjoy the game & encourage HIS TEAMMATES to do their best. When your son has an opportunity, encourage him to make the most of it! Let go of the "daddy ball" attitude you have of the team...it won't help your son to hear you "compare", or how "grandiose" you think he is, or how his TEAMMATE may have made an error or whatever.  Think service...not disservice! Respect not disrespect! For your kids sake.

<rant over>. here, too 

onsecond posted:

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

 

I guess for whatever reason parents continue to make excuses for their kids and be shocked when their kids grow up to be excuse makers and blame shifters.

Welcome to HS sports. Happens in many sports, not just baseball, or even just guy sports. All depends on how big your school is or if they have fresh, jc, varsity. It's not LL, and best players play. Maybe the coaches see something in Freshmen  players that u don't. Report back at end of season and tell us how they did or if he played them all season. Why should a more talented player have to wait to play if he's better than kid a yr older just because he's older? A lot happens at practice that parents don't see. 

find a summer team where son will get playing time and use HS practices to get ready for Summer. 

joemktg posted:

FoxDad posted:

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

I used to argue this same point with a buddy of mine who lives in NJ and whose son played on a NJ HS team. But after a while, it became abundantly clear that non-baseball factors played a role, e.g., $ contributions to the program, networking, etc. There was nothing my friend's son could do on the practice field nor playing field to make a difference.

We all know that non-business factors impact business decisions, and as working adults, we have to deal with it. But at the HS athletics level? It's simply bulls h i t. No child should have to be in this situation.

ONSECOND: I hope there's a way for you to switch schools where the playing field is not slanted towards non-playing field factors.

If your a great player, u will play. Maybe buddies son was only average player and he blamed outside factors for lack of playing time. Who knows

This player is Jr. and prob an average player. To switch schools for baseball is not a good idea IMO. If a player is good they can play on a summer team and be seen if they want to play at next level. Here u can't just switch schools unless it's to private one or you move. Whose to say player who moves will actually play at second school?

I believe your chances of playing increase exponentially if you can play catcher and can pitch, in addition to doing all the other things a coach needs a starter to do.  I'm always amazed at kids who simply cast themselves as LF or RF and are content with that. 

All too often kids get by in LL and then rec league ball in middle school by simply playing LF or RF and thinking they can always play there.  Come high school, LF and RF are no longer the positions you "hide" weak players.    HS ball, even JV, is a whole new game that most players are not used to. 

For many, it is a dose of reality.  And it should be.  It is a great separator. 

Perhaps this should be a separate thread...  But is this kind of money becoming commonplace?  Here maybe a couple hundred bucks but if it gets to the 1500-2000 area why not just play travel?  And it does get hard to have a parent pay two large and then turn around and expect them to fall in line with 'what's best for the team'.  If these fees sweep the nation I think high school baseball will die.  I have no issues with how much my kid plays next year in high school - but if he weren't going to play I ain't payin' two grand either.  

There can be many reasons why a coach doesn't use a player.  Yes, some of those reasons the coach could be blamed for.  Many of the other reasons could make perfect sense to most people that aren't involved.

So if we take the most obvious reason out of the equation which is talent... Don't give a coach any other reason.  Attitude alone has placed many talented players on the bench.

One more thing, people need to understand that coaches are human beings.  They are not all equal. And parents sometimes create problems without even realizing it.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

For many, it is a dose of reality.  And it should be.  It is a great separator. 

Exactly!

No longer "equitable distribution of playing time". Your $$'s are to support the program, not to buy playing time. 

ironhorse posted:

onsecond posted:

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

 

I guess for whatever reason parents continue to make excuses for their kids and be shocked when their kids grow up to be excuse makers and blame shifters.

I never claimed my kid was the second coming of Derek Jeter.  But it has been established by his travel coaches that he is more than a capable ball player. Not making excuses either, he is not giving up and will be working harder in the event he is given an opportunity.

I'm no expert by any means but I know a missed play (booted ball, dropped pop up/ fly, not hitting cuts) when I see one.  I can also see when someone is not able to get a bunt down or move the runner over. These are not one time occurrences that are being exaggerated. You can bank on one or more of these mistakes per game.  

 

2020dad posted:

Perhaps this should be a separate thread...  But is this kind of money becoming commonplace?  Here maybe a couple hundred bucks but if it gets to the 1500-2000 area why not just play travel?  And it does get hard to have a parent pay two large and then turn around and expect them to fall in line with 'what's best for the team'.  If these fees sweep the nation I think high school baseball will die.  I have no issues with how much my kid plays next year in high school - but if he weren't going to play I ain't payin' two grand either.  

Yes, schools around these parts have a 900-2000 booster dues.  There is no travel during the HS baseball season.  Travel season will start up by mid May.

I have no issue supporting the program for a few hundred. Ask for a grand+ and maybe it becomes part of the coaches job to discuss roles and playing time with the one cutting the check.

Should come down to tools! The kid with the most tools or the most developed tools should play.  Some kids can make an error on a ball that 99% of the other kids can't get to.  I'll play the kid that can at least get there!  

onsecond posted:

2020dad posted:

Perhaps this should be a separate thread...  But is this kind of money becoming commonplace?  Here maybe a couple hundred bucks but if it gets to the 1500-2000 area why not just play travel?  And it does get hard to have a parent pay two large and then turn around and expect them to fall in line with 'what's best for the team'.  If these fees sweep the nation I think high school baseball will die.  I have no issues with how much my kid plays next year in high school - but if he weren't going to play I ain't payin' two grand either.  

Yes, schools around these parts have a 900-2000 booster dues.  There is no travel during the HS baseball season.  Travel season will start up by mid May.

I have no issue supporting the program for a few hundred. Ask for a grand+ and maybe it becomes part of the coaches job to discuss roles and playing time with the one cutting the check.

Wow.  I should feel lucky that I have never had to pay a dime for any of my sons to play high school sports.   What do some schools charge and some don't?

Is you son a freshman? 

 

I have no issue supporting the program for a few hundred. Ask for a grand+ and maybe it becomes part of the coaches job to discuss roles and playing time with the one cutting the check.

OneSec - sent ya a PM.  

At some point I'm sure the coaches will figure it out,  If you are seeing the mental mistakes, I'm sure its driving the coaches nuts too.  

However, as many have stated here - the coach should be communicating with his players regarding role and expectations versus us that are writing the checks.  Agree with ya that is not too much to expect a coach to do.

 

My son is now a senior in HS played varsity 4 years and I have seen it all. You would think that I have no issues but guess again. Son continued to fight for ABs and playing time even in his senior year. Like i said, nothing you can do about it. My son has an opportunity to play at that next level, he is a very good HS player but that is not a guarantee of playing time. I can tell you some stories but it will not change anything. 

I think your beef on $$'s should be directed towards the School Board or Georgia State Ed Agency, not the HS Coach. He got his marching orders from them as to what the program needs to survive. The Booster Club has bylaws, allowing for program fundraising...Are there specific needs that hit this year, like Coach's stipend/salary, field upgrades, new uniforms, or the like? 

When son was in HS, I got together with a major league team...We raised abt $17,000 each of 2 years...selling tickets & "game packages"...the guys sold friends & family...a couple adults & I sold corporate accts (realtors, banks, Title Co's, Accounting Firms, car dealerships, etc). We had PSA's on radio & TV & a couple newspaper ads. Prizes for 1st, 2nd, 3rd place players were donated by a car stereo co. & a team jersey w/ autograph. Team Prize was to play at the pro stadium against a partner HS team.  LOADS OF FUN & great memories!

Where's Coach May when we need him?  ;-

Presentation I always say to my son.  

onsecond posted:

I never claimed my kid was the second coming of Derek Jeter.  But it has been established by his travel coaches that he is more than a capable ball player. Not making excuses either, he is not giving up and will be working harder in the event he is given an opportunity.

I'm no expert by any means but I know a missed play (booted ball, dropped pop up/ fly, not hitting cuts) when I see one.  I can also see when someone is not able to get a bunt down or move the runner over. These are not one time occurrences that are being exaggerated. You can bank on one or more of these mistakes per game.  

 

Playing devil's advocate.  Again, we have no independent information on how "capable" any of the players are including the starters and non-starters.  Just your word.  Your son may indeed be more than capable, but maybe the chosen starters are even more capable.   Some coaches have a short leash when it comes to "errors" and the like, others a long leash.  Nothing you or your son can do about it except be prepared if and when the opportunity arises.

Side note - our HS could not require the parents to support the booster club.  And donating to the booster club did not guarantee starting positions or playing time (nor should it!).

I'm also going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here. Has your son talked to the coach about his role at all? Not about specific playing time or comparing himself to other players, but about what he should be focusing on and working toward during practice? At the very least, those types of conversations show that a player wants to get better and it demonstrates a fairly high level of maturity. He should also be prepared to hear something he doesn't like. With my son, we always stress that he needs to know his role on each team. Sometimes that role is to be the supportive bench player picking kids up between innings and other times it's as the starting pitcher. Know your role and excel at it.

One of the first bullet points in our parent meeting packet is that contributions to the program are always appreciated, but have no impact whatsoever on playing time. Money should not be given with the expectation that it affects when or where a kid plays. I don't think that's what you were saying in your original post, but some people may read it that way. We also don't have mandatory Booster Club fees. We pay a couple hundred directly to the school to be able to play. Another bullet point is that the goal of varsity is to win league and state championships and the best nine players will be play to help reach those goals. Sometimes, we as parents, don't always agree with the coach's determination. That is life.

I hope you and your son get some answers and that you can truly enjoy the rest of his high school career.

Wow, everyones fees makes me happy that we only pay $100 /yr. Do have to buy hat, practice shirt, and uni pants as well as a batting helmet our frosh year. Also, have to buy 2 meals a year from a caterer in our fundraiser. $30 a meal. Money is split with the team. Most folks send them to needy families in the area instead of eating them themselves.

2020dad posted:

Perhaps this should be a separate thread...  But is this kind of money becoming commonplace?  Here maybe a couple hundred bucks but if it gets to the 1500-2000 area why not just play travel?  And it does get hard to have a parent pay two large and then turn around and expect them to fall in line with 'what's best for the team'.  If these fees sweep the nation I think high school baseball will die.  I have no issues with how much my kid plays next year in high school - but if he weren't going to play I ain't payin' two grand either.  

We pay a nominal sports fee ($150/sport I think) to play.  But then there is "fundraising."  The boosters want you to work concessions.  Each team wants you to "sell" something.  Both take up a lot of time.  I'd rather cut a check.  I have boxes of candy bars, cookie dough, pizzas, etc. if anyone wants one.    

Thus, for a coach it really becomes a balance between a "fair" opportunity to play and engaged parents with money.  I think most people want decision that make sense and communication with their kids about their roles on the team.   

onsecond posted:

ironhorse posted:

onsecond posted:

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

 

I guess for whatever reason parents continue to make excuses for their kids and be shocked when their kids grow up to be excuse makers and blame shifters.

I never claimed my kid was the second coming of Derek Jeter.  But it has been established by his travel coaches that he is more than a capable ball player. Not making excuses either, he is not giving up and will be working harder in the event he is given an opportunity.

I'm no expert by any means but I know a missed play (booted ball, dropped pop up/ fly, not hitting cuts) when I see one.  I can also see when someone is not able to get a bunt down or move the runner over. These are not one time occurrences that are being exaggerated. You can bank on one or more of these mistakes per game.  

 

I feel your pain.  Nothing is more frustrating than watch players make mistake after mistake and keep getting chances while there are more than serviceable backups sitting on the bench.  We have a kid on our basketball team who is a supper athlete.  He is a stud in another sport.  But and absolute train wreck in basketball.  Sure, if you piece together his highlights he is phenomenal -- makes the fancy play.  Problem is, for every one outstanding play he makes the bad pass, dribbles off his foot, takes a horrible shot (can't shoot at all), or otherwise turns the ball over.  Yet he continues to get every chance, after chance, after chance. 

On the other end of the spectrum is the Varsity basketball coach who makes his substitutions based on getting "POed" at a kid.  You know the guy.  He substitutes the first 30 seconds of the period because the kid got beat on a great play by the other team.  The kids end up being scared of making a "mistake."

kandkfunk....

 

Onsecond,

As a coach, I can tell you that being with the players for 2-3 hours a day for months going through drill after drill, we have a pretty good idea of who the better players are.  Does that mean they are going to go out and play flawlessly?  Of course not.  Will the better player get more chances?  Yeah, probably, because he has shown through thousands of reps and through displayed skill set and other ways that he is more likely to make the play than the guy on the bench.  How much his dad paid or what his parents do for the program or what club teams he plays for has NO bearing on figuring out who the best nine are to put the TEAM in position to win.

There is some great advice on this thread.  I hope you are open to taking the advice, not just the bits that fit your current thinking.  If you are going to games watching out for your son's teammates to make mistakes or otherwise fail so you can warrant that your son should be in the game, you are not setting the example or sending the right message to your son, to the other parents in the stands or to your son's teammates.  Go to the games and root, whole-heartedly for your son's TEAM.  The whole team.

As a parent, I have always told my kids - "If you want to be on the field/court/rink, work hard enough, be good enough to leave no doubt in the coach's mind who should be in that spot."  If they truly care enough about being on the field, most will do so.  I have found that those few who actually put in every possible effort to get there and still come up short are more than happy with taking on whatever role they are given... perhaps much more so than the parent.

A local (non public) HS just tweeted out that in the last two years 29 of their baseball players have committed to college baseball programs.  I've got to believe that when you have that kind of depth that a number of issues factor into playing time.

I can say so far HS baseball has been eye opening for me. I am at the other end of the issue with my son. He is the only freshman on Varsity. And let me say there is a huge amount of pressure on him to perform by not only the coach but by teammates the he is starting in front of ad well as their parents. He is holding his own on the mound, he just pitched a 1 hitter for the first 4 innings. At first, he is solid, at 3rd where the coach wants him, he stops the ball but then he rushes the throw to 1st and well it's not always a good throw. At the plate, he is struggling and let me tell you I hear it in the stands from the parents. But the other kids stikes out, slam their bats and throw their Helmut and not a word is said.  So just keep in mind the grass is not greener on the other side. My son did nor I asked for him to be on varsity, and he is playing his best, but like other parents have said even the best players boot the ball sometimes.

As a few folks have said, support your son. Remind him when the opportunity is given make it count. And as my son's showcase coach reminded us, you son needs to speak to the coach. I read where someone else said this. He needs to be an adult and talk to the coach on his role on the team and ask where the coach feels he needs improvement. Offer up, if JV needs support I am willing to step down for a few games so I can get some work in a game setting. In the end, worst case you are getting work in during practice to be ready for summer ball. The conversation will be received by the coach better coming from you son as opposed to you as the parent fighting the battle for him.

And last, as we have told my son, you are gonna play for coaches that you dislike or don't agree with in HS and should you be so lucky beyond. You can't choose your coach, and you can't control how your coach run the team, but you can control your attitude and effort on and off the field.

Best of luck to you as there just is not a good solution to your problem other than stick it out with hopes that your son's effort and performance at practice will earn him a spot or quit the team.

 

 

just mom posted:

I can say so far HS baseball has been eye opening for me. I am at the other end of the issue with my son. He is the only freshman on Varsity. And let me say there is a huge amount of pressure on him to perform by not only the coach but by teammates the he is starting in front of ad well as their parents. He is holding his own on the mound, he just pitched a 1 hitter for the first 4 innings. At first, he is solid, at 3rd where the coach wants him, he stops the ball but then he rushes the throw to 1st and well it's not always a good throw. At the plate, he is struggling and let me tell you I hear it in the stands from the parents. But the other kids stikes out, slam their bats and throw their Helmut and not a word is said.  So just keep in mind the grass is not greener on the other side. My son did nor I asked for him to be on varsity, and he is playing his best, but like other parents have said even the best players boot the ball sometimes.

As a few folks have said, support your son. Remind him when the opportunity is given make it count. And as my son's showcase coach reminded us, you son needs to speak to the coach. I read where someone else said this. He needs to be an adult and talk to the coach on his role on the team and ask where the coach feels he needs improvement. Offer up, if JV needs support I am willing to step down for a few games so I can get some work in a game setting. In the end, worst case you are getting work in during practice to be ready for summer ball. The conversation will be received by the coach better coming from you son as opposed to you as the parent fighting the battle for him.

And last, as we have told my son, you are gonna play for coaches that you dislike or don't agree with in HS and should you be so lucky beyond. You can't choose your coach, and you can't control how your coach run the team, but you can control your attitude and effort on and off the field.

Best of luck to you as there just is not a good solution to your problem other than stick it out with hopes that your son's effort and performance at practice will earn him a spot or quit the team.

 

 

So essentially he's getting heckled by parents of his own teammates...the ones that are there to support the team? Wow!

That is correct. And I was quite impressed by his response when I asked him how things were in the dugout. He said, I don't really care what they say or think. I know I can do the job, and I will show that I deserve the opportunity I was given each time I take the field.

He will be a better teammate and you a better supporter of the team because of this experience, quickly extending lots of grace to the next freshmen who makes varsity and his parents, when needed. 

As a parent, you choose to make it as positive or negative as you'd like. The ladder if you care to be miserable for fours years, a very short four years when they're done. No situation is ideal.

There has never been a HS coach that has detoured any amateur baseball players career. Players at the high school level must learn to communicate with coaches, be good team mates and get good grades so they can have a choice after high school.

Coaches coach, players play and parents don't interject themselves into issues that the player can solve on their own. Parent's cheer for the team and support their players. Then if a coach believes in them half as much as the parents do, they will indeed get an opportunity to play at the next level.

Just my two cents, trust me, it can get irritating at times but you have to bite your lip for your players sake.

 

C'mon people: recognize that money talks.

I'm not referring to fundraising. That's all upfront and goes to the school/program. Just don't be naive about:

• Person X owns a facility, very good friends with HS Coach Schmoe, and Player Z (whose parents have invested a significant amount of money with Person X) receives preferential treatment.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe has his own travel/showcase program that brings in $2K per season per player, and players receive preferential treatment on the HS squad.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe co-owns a facility...
• and so forth

Indeed there are way, way too many examples of conflicts of interest. Now is this the reason for the OP's issue? I have no clue. Just don't be a pollyanaish to think that this duplicitous behavior couldn't possibly be the reason for favoritism. This crapola exists and could very well have an impact on playing time.

We're grateful that joemktgson has never had to face this situation, and that we've dealt with only those of the highest character. But don't think for a moment our experiences are universal: idiots, creeps, cheats and the onerous exist outside the foul lines.

 

joemktg posted:

C'mon people: recognize that money talks.

I'm not referring to fundraising. That's all upfront and goes to the school/program. Just don't be naive about:

• Person X owns a facility, very good friends with HS Coach Schmoe, and Player Z (whose parents have invested a significant amount of money with Person X) receives preferential treatment.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe has his own travel/showcase program that brings in $2K per season per player, and players receive preferential treatment on the HS squad.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe co-owns a facility...
• and so forth

Indeed there are way, way too many examples of conflicts of interest. Now is this the reason for the OP's issue? I have no clue. Just don't be a pollyanaish to think that this duplicitous behavior couldn't possibly be the reason for favoritism. This crapola exists and could very well have an impact on playing time.

We're grateful that joemktgson has never had to face this situation, and that we've dealt with only those of the highest character. But don't think for a moment our experiences are universal: idiots, creeps, cheats and the onerous exist outside the foul lines.

 

Ok, so if everyone agrees money talks....

...what is your advice to the OP?  or anyone faced with the adverse effects of "money talks"?

In regards to being on the bench - have you done everything to remove all doubt?  Have you made sure you're better than the other guy.  Yeah politics exist and some coaches will play so and so because of this and that instead of who is the best.  But in my experience the ones who say politics are the ones sitting on the bench.  As for this situation I have no clue and probably never will because I'm not at practice everyday.  Maybe this kid is best and he's getting screwed or maybe he doesn't realize he's not as good as the other kids?  It could be anything so control the things you can control - effort, attitude and getting the most out of your skills as you can.

As for the money issue I'm going to speak from my experience from the schools I've been at and my time as AD.  From what I've seen athletics / extra curricular activities DO NOT get money from the school or tax funds.  Basically there are two pots of money in every school - school money that goes towards academics that is generated from tax money, class fees and things like that.  The other pot is extracurricular (including athletics) and that money comes from gate admission, fundraisers and donations.  At the end of the day though the principal can move money wherever he / she wishes but it's rare to see them cross money from one pot to another.  

Now once money goes into the athletic pot there's a couple of ways to handle it

1.  All gate money goes into a general athletic account.  If football makes $10K on the year then $10K goes into Gen Ath.  Basketball makes $8K then $8K goes into Gen Ath.  At the end of the year when all bills have been paid you take what's left over and create a budget for each sport.  Once they reach that budget then they cannot spend anymore OR they start dipping into their fundraiser money.  This one tends to tick off the big revenue sports because they are limited in how much money they have earned in what they get back.  Non-revenue sports get money.

2.  Whatever you charge at the gate goes into an account for that sport.  So if football makes $10K then they will get to use almost all of that $10K.  Non-revenue sports still need money so you take a little bit here and there from revenue sports.  End of the day football knows it is going to pay for non-revenues but as long as they get access to their money they are typically fine with it.

3.  Split gate money between each sports account and Gen Ath.  

When I took over as AD our Gen Ath account was around $40K in debt.  So the first thing I did was created an 80/20% gate split with revenue sports.  Each revenue sport kept 80% of their money while 20% went to Gen Ath.  The purpose of this was to get out of the hole while still paying for non-revenue sports.  The first two years we did this but still had to "borrow" money from revenue sports to pay for non-revenue sports.  Everyone was cool with it and it basically worked.  After 4 years we are somewhere in the neighborhood of being $9K to the good in Gen Ath.

We got a new principal last year and with us on stable legs financially we have went closer to #2 above where each sport keeps their full gate money.  Still pulling money to pay for non-revenue sports but it's not as bad.  

So basically if you think tax money goes to sports then there is a good chance you're wrong.  Maybe some states / areas / schools will do that but overall those schools are few and far between in my estimation.

Your son needs to talk to the coach and see how he can help the team.  How about playing another position?  My son is a very good catcher, great hitter, plate discipline tons of HS hitting stats to back it up (confirmed by the coaching staff), best defensive catcher on the team (framing A and blocking A+, throw downs B).  He's a senior and will not catch.  The other two catchers, a senior going to VCU as a catcher (framing A, blocking B, throw downs B) and a Junior with an A+ arm (poor framing C and poor blocking C) are the two catchers for the season.  Both other catchers hit the way the coach likes (more power - HR power, but also brings pop ups, ground outs, and strike outs).  My son is a contact hitter, very few strike outs lots of walks, hit by pitches, and a very high on base percentage.  He does not hit like what's expected of a catcher.  In stead of throwing up the favoritism conversation (coach is very good friends with both families and has been since little league), our son had his conversations about helping the team.  Has played error free at 3rd & 2nd, DH'd, and will most likely play 1st or DH this year.  Some of the D1 school coaches we spoke to at our tournaments this past summer told him the same think - If you do not hit home runs, you will not catch in our program - period.  Also, my son is 5'10" 175lbs, the other two are 6'1" / 6'2" 200 lbs. / 205 lbs.  What's happening is just what is happens.  The same line of questioning will occur at the next level. How hard can you throw, how fast can you run, how hard / far can you hit the ball.  The coach has three good catchers to choose from and he did.  Play and compete at another position, like it or not.  It can give you options.

joemktg posted:

C'mon people: recognize that money talks.

I'm not referring to fundraising. That's all upfront and goes to the school/program. Just don't be naive about:

• Person X owns a facility, very good friends with HS Coach Schmoe, and Player Z (whose parents have invested a significant amount of money with Person X) receives preferential treatment.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe has his own travel/showcase program that brings in $2K per season per player, and players receive preferential treatment on the HS squad.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe co-owns a facility...
• and so forth

Indeed there are way, way too many examples of conflicts of interest. Now is this the reason for the OP's issue? I have no clue. Just don't be a pollyanaish to think that this duplicitous behavior couldn't possibly be the reason for favoritism. This crapola exists and could very well have an impact on playing time.

We're grateful that joemktgson has never had to face this situation, and that we've dealt with only those of the highest character. But don't think for a moment our experiences are universal: idiots, creeps, cheats and the onerous exist outside the foul lines.

 

OK, several thoughts on this...

1.)  In our neck of the woods, there are limitations to coaching HS and club ball of the same age concurrently.

2.)  VERY often, there is a cry of "he get's special treatment because he plays in his club program" when the reality is..  he starts because he is a better player, often largely because he plays a lot of baseball outside of the HS season and the player with the complaining parent does not, regardless of who's club program it is.  Huh?  Ya mean if you take two similarly skilled young players and one plays a whole bunch more baseball outside of the HS season, he'll probably be a few notches better at this stage???  Go figure.

3.)  Conflict of Interest - Heck yeah, the whole nature of the beast for youth, HS AND college baseball is a conflict of interest.  I still get solicited regularly by my own kid's college program and the college programs of other kids who played for me in HS.  Any HS coach with a lick of experience knows he has to ask for money from EVERY parent regardless of ability and he will then have to ignore that fact and play his best nine if he wishes to succeed, regardless of who gave more or who knows who.  

Are there a few who don't handle it well and cave to that pressure?  Sure.  But far more often, the real issue with playing time is that the player isn't the best player at his position and/or won't put the team in the best position to win or there are other behavior/attitude/attendance issues.  Period.  

The parents don't agree because it is our job as parents to have at least slightly rose colored glasses for our kids and be their biggest supporters.  Do you really think we make the best unbiased judge as to where they fit in among similar competing kids?

Honestly, all this patronizing of the poor kid who isn't playing is not doing anyone any favors.  Be the clearly better player with the right attitude, the right attendance and the right grades and you will play.  GUARANTEED.

 

 

joemktg posted:

C'mon people: recognize that money talks.

I'm not referring to fundraising. That's all upfront and goes to the school/program. Just don't be naive about:

• Person X owns a facility, very good friends with HS Coach Schmoe, and Player Z (whose parents have invested a significant amount of money with Person X) receives preferential treatment.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe has his own travel/showcase program that brings in $2K per season per player, and players receive preferential treatment on the HS squad.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe co-owns a facility...
• and so forth

Indeed there are way, way too many examples of conflicts of interest. Now is this the reason for the OP's issue? I have no clue. Just don't be a pollyanaish to think that this duplicitous behavior couldn't possibly be the reason for favoritism. This crapola exists and could very well have an impact on playing time.

We're grateful that joemktgson has never had to face this situation, and that we've dealt with only those of the highest character. But don't think for a moment our experiences are universal: idiots, creeps, cheats and the onerous exist outside the foul lines.

 

Zebras do exist, but I prefer to hear horses. There is naivety and there are conspiracy theories/justifications.

cabbagedad said..."

Any HS coach with a lick of experience knows he has to ask for money from EVERY parent regardless of ability and he will then have to ignore that fact and play his best nine if he wishes to succeed, regardless of who gave more or who knows who.  

 ...the real issue with playing time is that the player isn't the best player at his position and/or won't put the team in the best position to win or there are other behavior/attitude/attendance issues.  Period....

Honestly, all this patronizing of the poor kid who isn't playing is not doing anyone any favors.  Be the clearly better player with the right attitude, the right attendance and the right grades and you will play.  GUARANTEED."

Can I get another AMEN! 

Given the quoted costs my advice to OP is simple.  Play travel only!  No way on gods green earth I would pay 1500-2000 to play hs ball

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

2forU posted:

Your son needs to talk to the coach and see how he can help the team.  How about playing another position?  My son is a very good catcher, great hitter, plate discipline tons of HS hitting stats to back it up (confirmed by the coaching staff), best defensive catcher on the team (framing A and blocking A+, throw downs B).  He's a senior and will not catch.  The other two catchers, a senior going to VCU as a catcher (framing A, blocking B, throw downs B) and a Junior with an A+ arm (poor framing C and poor blocking C) are the two catchers for the season.  Both other catchers hit the way the coach likes (more power - HR power, but also brings pop ups, ground outs, and strike outs).  My son is a contact hitter, very few strike outs lots of walks, hit by pitches, and a very high on base percentage.  He does not hit like what's expected of a catcher.  In stead of throwing up the favoritism conversation (coach is very good friends with both families and has been since little league), our son had his conversations about helping the team.  Has played error free at 3rd & 2nd, DH'd, and will most likely play 1st or DH this year.  Some of the D1 school coaches we spoke to at our tournaments this past summer told him the same think - If you do not hit home runs, you will not catch in our program - period.  Also, my son is 5'10" 175lbs, the other two are 6'1" / 6'2" 200 lbs. / 205 lbs.  What's happening is just what is happens.  The same line of questioning will occur at the next level. How hard can you throw, how fast can you run, how hard / far can you hit the ball.  The coach has three good catchers to choose from and he did.  Play and compete at another position, like it or not.  It can give you options.

That is interesting and a comment I never heard before concerning catchers.   Why is that?

Understanding money, you ever wonder how many coaches are flat out paid under the table by a wealthy parent to insure his son gets the "extra" looks?  $20K is not a lot of money to a wealthy parent and a bucket load to a coach.  I assume it has happened more than once.  

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Not gonna pay that either

This was 2-6 years ago:

$250 "player pack" of practice shirts, sweat shirt, sweat pants, socks, belt, etc.

$250 Mandatory fundraising (basically asking for money via letter)....or parents pay up.

$100 auction/dinner/gambling/drinks for 2 (which we never did)

$500x2-750-$1000 additional for spring break trips.  

Plus, gate fees, concessions, Christmas wreathes, etc....

So, $1,000 - $1,500+ year.

Couldn't afford to slip the coach any additional funds, but I always wondered how all the money was spent.

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

real green posted:

Understanding money, you ever wonder how many coaches are flat out paid under the table by a wealthy parent to insure his son gets the "extra" looks?  $20K is not a lot of money to a wealthy parent and a bucket load to a coach.  I assume it has happened more than once.  

I've been coaching for over twenty years, HS for seven.  I have several friends who have coached HS ball for ever.  None of us have ever been offered cash or anything directly to have a player play. 

You guys are cracking me up.

I will say some women have been nicer to me than what my looks and personality deserve

 

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

Public school (largest classification) and that $1200 included a trip for three days to New Orleans, Louisiana to play schools from that area. 

real green posted:

Understanding money, you ever wonder how many coaches are flat out paid under the table by a wealthy parent to insure his son gets the "extra" looks?  $20K is not a lot of money to a wealthy parent and a bucket load to a coach.  I assume it has happened more than once.  

Seriously????  If a parent pays a coach $20K to get their kid playing time I guarantee that kid will turn out to be a POS.  Plus, if someone approaches me with $20K to get their kid playing time you better believe that kid will be batting fourth, playing short and pitching whenever he wants.

cabbagedad posted:

real green posted:

Understanding money, you ever wonder how many coaches are flat out paid under the table by a wealthy parent to insure his son gets the "extra" looks?  $20K is not a lot of money to a wealthy parent and a bucket load to a coach.  I assume it has happened more than once.  

I've been coaching for over twenty years, HS for seven.  I have several friends who have coached HS ball for ever.  None of us have ever been offered cash or anything directly to have a player play. 

You guys are cracking me up.

I will say some women have been nicer to me than what my looks and personality deserve

 

Dang you made me realize just how ugly I am.  I'm still waiting on that single mom to help her son get more playing time by flirting with me

My experience is the attitude the parent carries is not far removed from how the kid responds. When I see a "woe is me" attitude in an adult the kid's attitude usually isn't far behind. The parents cast blame. The kid casts blame. The parent makes excuses. The kid makes excuses.

First, parents don't usually see what goes on in practice. Kids don't often come home and give an accurate depiction of what went on in practice. Many parents can't see the upside in the young player who kicks a few balls.

Theres also key information missing. What is the recent history of the program? How long has the coach been there? Is it a rebuilding situation? 

I do know one way to short circuit a kid's high school sports experience. Have a bad attitude and pass it on to the kid. The right approach is use every practice as an opportunity to impress. Approach every practice like the seventh game of the World Series. Stay physically and mentally prepared. One at bat, one inning in the field may change the world. I've seen players and their parents complain about lack of opportunity without realizing all the opportunities that weren't taken advantage of. A prepared and/or bulldog approach to one at bat, one play in the field, one pinch running appearance can change a players destiny.

i know a kid who sat for two years on his Legion team. The team was extraordinarily talented. One player is now in the majors. Three players played in power five conferences. I believe the entire starting lineup played college ball at some level. The kid got an opportunity in the Legion regionals due to a discipline problem of another player. The kid was MVP of the regionals. He made the all World Series team. His team walked off with the trophy. He added a college baseball offer to his catch.

How did it happen? The kid had the right attitude. He kept his head up. He stayed physically prepared. He stayed mentally prepared. When opportunity knocked he was ready.

i played Legion ball on a loaded team. My best friend moped for two years he wasn't getting a shot. His parents complained to any other parent who would listen. My friend went through the motions in a mop up relief appearance at states. The next week an injury created the need for a starter at regions. The coach choose another player with a better attitude over my friend.

Both players had equal talent. One had the right mental approach. My friend washed out of baseball in college due a lot of talent and his poor mental approach. The other kid made it to AAA. My friend has a tendency to be an Eeyore in life too. If you want to get ahead in baseball and life be a Tigger.

hshuler posted:

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

Public school (largest classification) and that $1200 included a trip for three days to New Orleans, Louisiana to play schools from that area. 

That's crazy! Why would a 6A School in Georgia travel 500 miles to play? And New Orleans???...worse than the armpit of America! Son attended Tulane (2006-2010), so I know the city...way too well! Sleeze pit! 

Are they playing Zephyr Field or Greer Field at Turchin Stadium?...or HS fields? Turchin is beautiful & son loved Tulane...Just too soon after Katrina...

So what fees, if the HS doesn't take a trip? 

hshuler posted:

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

Public school (largest classification) and that $1200 included a trip for three days to New Orleans, Louisiana to play schools from that area. 

Agreed, in GA as well, public school, 6A, and the High School Team is around $1000 (with fundraising)  Of course that included a 3 day trip to the beach to play other teams over "winter" break.

Schedule Includes 28 Varsity games, not including any state play off games, and transport to 15 away games (which could be an hour away). They have a private field, private indoor batting cages, HC is a former MiLB player, and the 3 assistant coaches all played baseball for D1 Colleges.

Does it include coaches expenses for the trip? Somehow they r selling it if AD has allowed it. That's an expensive field trip. Guess some schools go play  tourn near beach for Spring Break, so this is similar I guess.

Do they not have fundraisers? 

Golfman25 posted:

 

I feel your pain.  Nothing is more frustrating than watch players make mistake after mistake and keep getting chances while there are more than serviceable backups sitting on the bench.  We have a kid on our basketball team who is a supper athlete.  He is a stud in another sport.  But and absolute train wreck in basketball.  Sure, if you piece together his highlights he is phenomenal -- makes the fancy play.  Problem is, for every one outstanding play he makes the bad pass, dribbles off his foot, takes a horrible shot (can't shoot at all), or otherwise turns the ball over.  Yet he continues to get every chance, after chance, after chance. 

On the other end of the spectrum is the Varsity basketball coach who makes his substitutions based on getting "POed" at a kid.  You know the guy.  He substitutes the first 30 seconds of the period because the kid got beat on a great play by the other team.  The kids end up being scared of making a "mistake."

There also might be coaches who have different focusses. some are more impressed by Tools and the top30% of Plays a Player makes and are willing to overlook some easy Errors while others are more impressed by steady Plays and always making the Routine Plays even if a Player never does something Special. ideally you want both of course but still coaches might lean a Little more to the other.

with one Coach a Player with a cannon arm and HR power but a low on base percentage and many strikeouts might Play while the other Coach prefers a guy with no power and an average arm that makes the Routine Plays and gets on base but never does something Special.

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

We always provided fundraisers to players to cover cost needed for expenses. Our concession stand provided lots of extra cash as well.  

Fundraising occured before anyone made the team as to show no favorites.  It worked and worked well. That occurs a lot in this area. 

When your son leaves his HS program and you have been provided with a good experience, donate to the booster club, all programs could use an "extra boost". 

coach2709 posted:

real green posted:

Understanding money, you ever wonder how many coaches are flat out paid under the table by a wealthy parent to insure his son gets the "extra" looks?  $20K is not a lot of money to a wealthy parent and a bucket load to a coach.  I assume it has happened more than once.  

Seriously????  If a parent pays a coach $20K to get their kid playing time I guarantee that kid will turn out to be a POS.  Plus, if someone approaches me with $20K to get their kid playing time you better believe that kid will be batting fourth, playing short and pitching whenever he wants.

Put me on the list for the 20grand!  But seriously folks I am 53 years old with decades of coaching and hanging out with coaches and having been around sports all my life.  Now of course just because I have never seen something doesn't mean it never happened.  But honestly folks do you really believe this stuff?  If you think guys sneak $20,000 under the table to a coach for playing time then you live in a completely different financial world than I (which isn't hard I guess�� - I can't believe I just used an emoticon).  I am sure I upset some of the other coaches on here when I take pro parent positions but on this one I am right in line with the fraternity.  Suggesting payoffs is taking it too far.  Can a young coach get caught up in the schmoozing?  Yes probably so.  But that is youth and inexperience more than overt disregard for fairness.  And let's not forget that a high school season is very short.  Not sure it's even long enough for a reliable statistical analysis.  If as a coach you are convinced player A is better than player B...   How long do you give player A before going to player B?  Half the season could be over before even thinking about a change.  

RJM - I like what you said in your post.  This is why I say my son teaches me more than I teach him.  This is so hard to change.  I have opened my mouth and inserted foot many times.  I am trying to learn to leave foot on the ground and close my mouth - which is one of the hardest challenges I have ever had. 

 

hshuler posted:

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

Public school (largest classification) and that $1200 included a trip for three days to New Orleans, Louisiana to play schools from that area. 

And what if a player's parents don't have the funds to "contribute"?  What then?  Does he not go?  Does the booster club pick up the balance?

If the team had planned such a trip when my son was in HS, it would have been an undue burden to come up with ~$1,000+ for a three day trip.  We would have had to opt out.  I'll be probably a third of the families would have had difficulties funding such a trip.

I don't know but I would think that sponsorship was an option for those who can't afford the fees. 

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

FoxDad posted:

hshuler posted:

baseballmom posted:

He didn't say HE did...just that schools in "his area" charged $900-$2000...He hinted at $1000...curious! Anyone else from Georgia on here?

Just heard from a friend that it's $1200 at my son's future high school. 

Just for clarification - is this a private or public school?

Our local HS (public) does not require any fees to be paid to play any sport.  No pay-to-play fee (yet).  Donations to the booster club is encouraged but not required and in no way influences the coach's decision regarding playing time or making the team.

The coaches are not involved with the booster club except to provide a "wish list" of things he needs that the school budget does not cover.

To my knowledge the school budget covers umpires, game balls, field usage (lights), uniforms, helmets and travel expenses except if the team attends a spring break tournament that is out of the region.  Then the booster club tries to cover most (if not all) of that cost.  Parents then have to cover the remainder.

Public school (largest classification) and that $1200 included a trip for three days to New Orleans, Louisiana to play schools from that area. 

And what if a player's parents don't have the funds to "contribute"?  What then?  Does he not go?  Does the booster club pick up the balance?

If the team had planned such a trip when my son was in HS, it would have been an undue burden to come up with ~$1,000+ for a three day trip.  We would have had to opt out.  I'll be probably a third of the families would have had difficulties funding such a trip.

Here, in Colorado, a lot of public school districts no longer fund sports directly. They are funded through "sports fees." The district we moved from had a $1300/yr per sport fee. For those with financial need, the Booster Club covered it. Similarly, most of Colorado doesn't have middle school sports for the same reason.

RJM posted:

My experience is the attitude the parent carries is not far removed from how the kid responds. When I see a "woe is me" attitude in an adult the kid's attitude usually isn't far behind. The parents cast blame. The kid casts blame. The parent makes excuses. The kid makes excuses.

First, parents don't usually see what goes on in practice. Kids don't often come home and give an accurate depiction of what went on in practice. Many parents can't see the upside in the young player who kicks a few balls.

 

RJM said it well. The apple won’t fall far from the tree with the woe is me attitude.

 One thing I’ve noticed since Everyday 2016 entered HS. Some kids are already known. Their reputation precedes them.

The coaches know about them,and most notably the kids do also. The kids are ok with it, although the parents tend to be jealous.

They will jump on every mistake those kids make and exaggerate them to anyone who will listen.They actually form a hateful attitude toward these kids. They hate your kid for making an error.                         It downright shameful and utterly disgusting.                                                                                         Every mom and dad should ask themselves if they’re one of these parents.

 At our 4A HS, our coach will play seniors predominantly. Unless your kid is heads and tails much better, the seniors play. Wasn’t a fan of that philosophy at first, although we accepted it and didn’t criticize, or moan about it in the parent circles.

Most of these kids baseball careers will end here. Let them go out with a good experience. Your kids time will come

It has for Everyday’s 2016. We’re going to cherish it.

I never gave a hoot about what parents had to say about the playing time or how much they muttered or rooted under their breath.  It was kind of sad but the coach wasn't listening to anyone no matter what.

The thing that was an eye opener was the kids actively working against each other.  The team was almost openly hostile to each other in spots 7-12 with 6 guys fighting for 3/4 positions (DH) and it was very close competition.  I watched kids dragging around with pretty serious injuries and hiding them because they did not want to give a spot for fear of never getting it back.  A bad shoulder, ankle or knee could not ne displayed.  Coach loved grit so grit he got.

In these cases Freshman and Sophomores had big hills to climb because they were probably battling a Senior for his spot.  So the older kids had no interest in dumping their friend for a guy that might be about the same.  The kids that were clearly a superior player did get welcomed with open arms.  As near as I could tell the coach encouraged this testing of younger guys - it allowed him to see what they were made of.

Everyday Dad posted:

RJM posted:

My experience is the attitude the parent carries is not far removed from how the kid responds. When I see a "woe is me" attitude in an adult the kid's attitude usually isn't far behind. The parents cast blame. The kid casts blame. The parent makes excuses. The kid makes excuses.

First, parents don't usually see what goes on in practice. Kids don't often come home and give an accurate depiction of what went on in practice. Many parents can't see the upside in the young player who kicks a few balls.

 

RJM said it well. The apple won’t fall far from the tree with the woe is me attitude.

 One thing I’ve noticed since Everyday 2016 entered HS. Some kids are already known. Their reputation precedes them.

The coaches know about them,and most notably the kids do also. The kids are ok with it, although the parents tend to be jealous.

They will jump on every mistake those kids make and exaggerate them to anyone who will listen.They actually form a hateful attitude toward these kids. They hate your kid for making an error.                         It downright shameful and utterly disgusting.                                                                                         Every mom and dad should ask themselves if they’re one of these parents.

 At our 4A HS, our coach will play seniors predominantly. Unless your kid is heads and tails much better, the seniors play. Wasn’t a fan of that philosophy at first, although we accepted it and didn’t criticize, or moan about it in the parent circles.

Most of these kids baseball careers will end here. Let them go out with a good experience. Your kids time will come

It has for Everyday’s 2016. We’re going to cherish it.

I have seen and heard of the "Legends."  My kid is actually friends with one.  Guess what.  While he is a really good player and has been groomed, his measureables are average.  I was a little shocked given the "reputation."  He's a great kid with good parents as well -- can't measure that.     

roothog66 posted:

Here, in Colorado, a lot of public school districts no longer fund sports directly. They are funded through "sports fees." The district we moved from had a $1300/yr per sport fee. For those with financial need, the Booster Club covered it. Similarly, most of Colorado doesn't have middle school sports for the same reason.

Ouch!  Our school system considered a pay-to-play fee a few years back but the school board tabled it for the time being.

One of the neighboring counties has instituted a pay-to-play fee.  $100 per student per sport and it doesn't come close to offsetting the total athletic budget.

I think $100 per player per sport is fair. As a parent with kids in band and athletics...let me say as a band parent I have paid more for band than athletics.

We put out 400-600 a year per kid, and that does not include their spring trip. For that money my kids are fed and have a snack and drink at each football game, get marching shoes and other uniform items, cover the cost of the color guard instructors that the school district will not pay for, and it covers the uniform cleaning costs.

For athletics, I did not have any set fees. I did have to purchase a hat and shirts for practice, and of course all his equipment, bat, gloves, cleats etc for baseball. For my other daughter who was in volleyball, softball, basketball, track and powerlifting during her 4 years...again my only cost was for her personal equipment.

In all areas there are fundraising. As parents we work at the professional ball park, football stadium and at the Speedway to earn funds for the band or we sold stiff, the kids wash cars and we have an all school garage sale. And for those who can not afford to pay as boosters we scholarship a lot and when that student turns 16 we expect that they work with us at our fundraising venues. For baseball, we host local tournaments for our teams and over the summer partner with the area youth ballparks and rent our field out for 14 and above tournaments.

But for a public scool to require that amount of money, 1000+ just to play ball well I would be playing select or travel ball. Now if that 1000 covers the trip then that is something as parents that should be discussed and agreed upon as a team, and again I would expect that the boys on the team get up and work/fundraise. There are many opportunities for them to earn money, have a neighborhood event when the boys mow lawns or fix fences and pull weeds. Host a hitathon or a long ball contest. Have a community movie night in the outfield and maybe have a small Camp where the players help teach younger ones some basic baseball skills

I guess my pointerest is, there are ways to fund a program without draining the parents dry, but I also do feel as parents we should have to pay some kind d of a fee because let's face it, the money has to come from somewhere and we send our kids to school to get an education first. Sports and athletics are important, but should  come 2nd to education.

For anyone wondering, I am in Texas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ours is a one time athletic fee of $40 per year. They do a discount card fundraiser that averages about 7k a year. We are required to purchase pants (home and away) and a hat.

The Varsity squad takes one trip south which is by donations only and any remaining cost is covered by the athletic booster club.

The program is centered around upperclassmen. All Junior's will letter regardless of playing time. The underclassmen that continue to play know they will letter as Junior's  and must wait their turn.

It goes against everything I know and stand for but it is, what it is. I have told my player, you don't have to like it but you have to respect the coach and his program.

hshuler posted:

just mom posted:

I can say so far HS baseball has been eye opening for me. I am at the other end of the issue with my son. He is the only freshman on Varsity. And let me say there is a huge amount of pressure on him to perform by not only the coach but by teammates the he is starting in front of ad well as their parents. He is holding his own on the mound, he just pitched a 1 hitter for the first 4 innings. At first, he is solid, at 3rd where the coach wants him, he stops the ball but then he rushes the throw to 1st and well it's not always a good throw. At the plate, he is struggling and let me tell you I hear it in the stands from the parents. But the other kids stikes out, slam their bats and throw their Helmut and not a word is said.  So just keep in mind the grass is not greener on the other side. My son did nor I asked for him to be on varsity, and he is playing his best, but like other parents have said even the best players boot the ball sometimes.

As a few folks have said, support your son. Remind him when the opportunity is given make it count. And as my son's showcase coach reminded us, you son needs to speak to the coach. I read where someone else said this. He needs to be an adult and talk to the coach on his role on the team and ask where the coach feels he needs improvement. Offer up, if JV needs support I am willing to step down for a few games so I can get some work in a game setting. In the end, worst case you are getting work in during practice to be ready for summer ball. The conversation will be received by the coach better coming from you son as opposed to you as the parent fighting the battle for him.

And last, as we have told my son, you are gonna play for coaches that you dislike or don't agree with in HS and should you be so lucky beyond. You can't choose your coach, and you can't control how your coach run the team, but you can control your attitude and effort on and off the field.

Best of luck to you as there just is not a good solution to your problem other than stick it out with hopes that your son's effort and performance at practice will earn him a spot or quit the team.

 

 

So essentially he's getting heckled by parents of his own teammates...the ones that are there to support the team? Wow!

My son played varsity as a freshman last year. For whatever reason (maybe cause he just pitched for them), the older kids kind of took him under their wings.

But when they moved a sophomore to varsity to play second base, the parent whose junior or senior was bumped would literally cheer when the poor kid made a mistake. I've also heard of older kids vandalizing the cars of people who moved to varsity before it was "their turn." 

Wow...now that is taking it a step too far.

A good number of the guys have been really supportive, mostly the ones who take baseball seriously and are truly good ballplayers.

He does get the grunt jobs, with the sarcastic let the freshman do it, but that in my opinion is all part of it.

Iowamom23 posted:

My son played varsity as a freshman last year. For whatever reason (maybe cause he just pitched for them), the older kids kind of took him under their wings.

But when they moved a sophomore to varsity to play second base, the parent whose junior or senior was bumped would literally cheer when the poor kid made a mistake. I've also heard of older kids vandalizing the cars of people who moved to varsity before it was "their turn." 

That is right up there with chanting at the 9u game "drop it, drop it", at the 9 year old center fielder that's going after your kids pop-up.

I think it would be helpful if all baseball players invested time in playing individual sports.  My preference is wrestling but any sport where you are judged one on one based on skill alone works fine.  Players who participate in this and parents who live through the experience have a vastly different perspective.  Dues are paid in the off season not based on years of being on the team.  A freshman with talent who has developed his skills independent of the team are welcomed to the team. 

If a player or parent does not like that they lost their starting spot to someone younger then ask yourself what you lack.  Arm strength, , glove skills, hitting, knowledge, speed, power etc. These can all be improved on if you are willing to embrace the grind.  This whole issue gets into the entitlement mentality that I see too much of in sports everyday.  "I came out for three years and I deserve to play"...in sports you deserve what you earn by being the best you can possible be.

Off the soapbox...

CaCO3Girl posted:

Iowamom23 posted:

My son played varsity as a freshman last year. For whatever reason (maybe cause he just pitched for them), the older kids kind of took him under their wings.

But when they moved a sophomore to varsity to play second base, the parent whose junior or senior was bumped would literally cheer when the poor kid made a mistake. I've also heard of older kids vandalizing the cars of people who moved to varsity before it was "their turn." 

That is right up there with chanting at the 9u game "drop it, drop it", at the 9 year old center fielder that's going after your kids pop-up.

9U, heck some of our Freshmen parents were doing that last year...

just mom posted:

Wow...now that is taking it a step too far.

A good number of the guys have been really supportive, mostly the ones who take baseball seriously and are truly good ballplayers.

He does get the grunt jobs, with the sarcastic let the freshman do it, but that in my opinion is all part of it.

My son had no problems on varsity with the older kids. Maybe it's because of his older sister and the fact that her long-term boyfriend was also a varsity player (and captain of the football team) so nobody messed with him. But, he's also a good player and I think other good players recognize that. I don't share the same concerns as many others about Frosh playing with Seniors because our experience was very positive.

...Iowamom wrote...."I've also heard of older kids vandalizing the cars of people who moved to varsity before it was "their turn." "

If above is true, I would say the kids are soon to graduate from a baseball lineup to a police lineup.

You want to know pressure try being a freshman on varsity and batting clean up.

Thankful we didn't get that deal, but he was put at 3rd, a position he has never played and thrown on the mound. Now he has pitched, but a very limited number of innings. The boy has an arm, but has always been wild. He acrually broke a kids ribs at 11, andover the fall at 14 topped out at 78 MPH at a showcase tournament. Thankfully,  he is quickly learning the control needed to pitch through lots of work and conversation about the mental aspect of pitching. I will almost catch him now, mind you I said almost I am still just a mom �� 

From a mom perspective all the boys, and the positive aand negative experiences our kids face playing baseball or any other sport shapes them into the men they will become, and how we react and deal with each of this experienceas will shape or our boys will deal with their own kids.

As parents we need to support our kids, talk about the reality of the situation, try to speak with an open mind d and consider the coaches perspective

 And above all, remind them to have fun and enjoy their high school experience. Find something good and build on it, because all to soon real life, work, and bills are going to be upon them, and let's be real, we can all agree being an adult kinda sucks sometimes.

2016 Played varsity fresh. yr. also.I too worried about the older kid thing too.His problem ended up being the parents and not the kids.In his 8th grade summer the HC. had him playing with the HS. team for the 10-12+ games they play after school is out.1st game sat in stands while he started 1st summer game.You could here the murmurs.No one really knew me so I just sat there while watching 2016 K 5 out of 6 kids for his turn that day.Funny how those "parents" never said anything while thier kids were out on field involved in major snowball fights.Fast foward 10 months later 2016 first V start.He went 5 2/3 throwing @ 120+ pitches.There were 9 errors committed during his start.13 to complete the game.I never sat in stands after that.2016 never said anything so I just follwed his lead.He also batted 3,4,5 for about 1/3 of season.That was pretty much a disaster.He was no way ready.The 6,7 spot fit him well.He ended up starting and completing the regional final game.We lost 3-2 Had alot of chances that just did not come thru.It happens.To this day 2016 still has 1/3  +1/3  +1/3  People who know him and and feel the same as me about him.the ones that really have no opinion..And the ones for whatever reason trulely dispize the kid.I guess its just a jelousy thing.2016 has never said anything about the older kids those first 2 yrs. So i guess nothing too bad took place.Once the seniors started taking him golfing at end of Fresh. yr I figured thing would work out......We pay 25$ athletic fee per sport.For the kids that lift thats 35$ extra.That $ keeps the weight room staffed with trainers and medical gal.

onsecond posted:

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

This is the most ridiculous sentence I think I've ever read on here from a parent. 

lionbaseball posted:

You want to know pressure try being a freshman on varsity and batting clean up.

Pressure? I call that a heck of an opportunity!! though it will likely go away quickly if he views it as pressure.  The Kids know who the top players are regardless of age. 

19coach posted:

lionbaseball posted:

You want to know pressure try being a freshman on varsity and batting clean up.

Pressure? I call that a heck of an opportunity!! though it will likely go away quickly if he views it as pressure.  The Kids know who the top players are regardless of age. 

19coach, Right! 

Opportunity can be pressure. Ask Greg Norman (Masters 1996).

19coach posted:

onsecond posted:

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

This is the most ridiculous sentence I think I've ever read on here from a parent. 

Coach while I get you may not agree, I am not saying you are wrong, I am saying that there are more ridiculous things posted here...the bar is not near as high as you seem thing!

onsecond posted:

I was always looking forward to HS ball because the perceived notion was that if you outplayed, out hustled, and out worked the other guy, you would at least get a shot.

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

I understand that it is not possible to get everyone in when you carry more than 9 on the roster. But, how do you expect to keep the kids coming back if there is no hope of any playing time? How do you keep positive chemistry when the 2nd or 3rd  stringer is hoping someone fails big and consistently so they can (possibly) move up.

I understand that paying the booster fees is no guarantee of playing time. However, these fees can get very expensive depending on the program. Surely ($900- $2,000 in my area), there has to be some balance and equitable distribution of playing time. Not every game is the 7th game of the World Series.

Some will argue that the practice time alone is worth the fees and that is debatable but, if you are not getting game reps you are not getting better, you are falling behind.

 

<rant over>...for now

Making the team gets the player a uniform and practice time. It gets him nothing more. High school is not shared playing time and participation trophies.  The best players don't get where they are through high school practice. They get there from all the hard work they do away from the team.

High school is the first stage of kids turning into young adults. It's easier if they don't have whining role models. Life isn't always fair. Competition is fierce. Favorites get promoted. If you're not a Ford you won't be Chairman of The Ford Motor Company no matter how brilliant you may be. High school is a good time to learn if you want it, outwork everyone for it. Then you might get it. If you don't get back on your feet and keep battling.

onsecond posted:

I was always looking forward to HS ball because the perceived notion was that if you outplayed, out hustled, and out worked the other guy, you would at least get a shot.

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

I understand that it is not possible to get everyone in when you carry more than 9 on the roster. But, how do you expect to keep the kids coming back if there is no hope of any playing time? How do you keep positive chemistry when the 2nd or 3rd  stringer is hoping someone fails big and consistently so they can (possibly) move up.

I understand that paying the booster fees is no guarantee of playing time. However, these fees can get very expensive depending on the program. Surely ($900- $2,000 in my area), there has to be some balance and equitable distribution of playing time. Not every game is the 7th game of the World Series.

Some will argue that the practice time alone is worth the fees and that is debatable but, if you are not getting game reps you are not getting better, you are falling behind.

 

<rant over>...for now

Onesecond, I really hope you come back and ask more questions....I can see you do not have many posts.  This is a really great board, with very knowledgeable people, but that is the double edged sword.  People on here are soooo knowledgeable and their kids are typically very good, that you aren't going to get a lot of empathy on here for a kid who is on the bench.  If you comb through the archives I am sure you will find 100+ posts on ways to get off the bench.  Best of luck.

Go44dad posted:

joemktg posted:

C'mon people: recognize that money talks.

I'm not referring to fundraising. That's all upfront and goes to the school/program. Just don't be naive about:

• Person X owns a facility, very good friends with HS Coach Schmoe, and Player Z (whose parents have invested a significant amount of money with Person X) receives preferential treatment.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe has his own travel/showcase program that brings in $2K per season per player, and players receive preferential treatment on the HS squad.
• Or maybe HS Coach Schmoe co-owns a facility...
• and so forth

Indeed there are way, way too many examples of conflicts of interest. Now is this the reason for the OP's issue? I have no clue. Just don't be a pollyanaish to think that this duplicitous behavior couldn't possibly be the reason for favoritism. This crapola exists and could very well have an impact on playing time.

We're grateful that joemktgson has never had to face this situation, and that we've dealt with only those of the highest character. But don't think for a moment our experiences are universal: idiots, creeps, cheats and the onerous exist outside the foul lines.

 

Ok, so if everyone agrees money talks....

...what is your advice to the OP?  or anyone faced with the adverse effects of "money talks"?

As I see it, here are the options. Not saying they are feasible, but that they are options:

1. Switch public schools or private schools
2. Switch from public to private (or vice versa)
3. Home school and workout with trainers
4. Stay on the HS squad, and use every possible waking second to work on skills, speed, strength, all in preparation for the summer/fall team

What not to do: quit the HS team. Use the team, coaches, facilities, etc. to improve all aspects of play.

Lastly, change your focus from the Spring to the Summer and Fall, and prepare to attend PG showcases in early June.

Most coaches have a system and stay within that system. If your player comes in as an underclassmen, works hard to earn his trust, he will get his chance. The key is to keep a good attitude, be a good teammate and continue to improve.

In all fairness to the coach, he likely doesn't know your player, like you know your player and if he's a legend before he arrived then it's likely the coach will make him prove himself many times.

My '18 has always been the guy, until he arrived on the high school field. He had to realize it's is not about him and he needed to mature mentally. A year later, he's fine and the coach is his biggest fan. He simply worked hard and continued to improve. It probably didn't hurt the coach has received calls from a few D1 schools about him but that's a byproduct of the work.

The worse thing a parent can do is compare their player to another.....for any reason. You will see one player starting over another, early commits to college, ect.  An attempt to rationalize players opportunities will serve no purpose. Each player has his own unique road and no two will have the same road.