I thought Daddy ball was bad

onsecond posted:

I was always looking forward to HS ball because the perceived notion was that if you outplayed, out hustled, and out worked the other guy, you would at least get a shot.

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

I understand that it is not possible to get everyone in when you carry more than 9 on the roster. But, how do you expect to keep the kids coming back if there is no hope of any playing time? How do you keep positive chemistry when the 2nd or 3rd  stringer is hoping someone fails big and consistently so they can (possibly) move up.

I understand that paying the booster fees is no guarantee of playing time. However, these fees can get very expensive depending on the program. Surely ($900- $2,000 in my area), there has to be some balance and equitable distribution of playing time. Not every game is the 7th game of the World Series.

Some will argue that the practice time alone is worth the fees and that is debatable but, if you are not getting game reps you are not getting better, you are falling behind.

 

<rant over>...for now

Welcome to real life HS baseball. Nothing you can do about it. It is out of your control. All you can do is have your son keep trying to get better.  There are good HS coaches and very good programs and there are some that are not very good.  

Very tough thing. In high school it's not so much daddy ball but sometimes it's about giving some kids preferences over others because of the travel programs they play for and how much influence those programs have on the coaches.  Not easy to deal with.  StandBallDad is right, keep son grinding hard.

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

Every HS team and situation will be different. My son shines on a historically mediocre team (just demographics) but just a few miles away it would be cut-throat to get playing time and ABs, and the whole "HS politics" might step-in and take charge.

Come over to our HS - 35 man Varsity roster.  HS is for the kids to play together with their friends, practice hard, and hope they get a shot.  We are in the top 10 every year.  Oh, that's for fund raising.

I have to say, the OP presents a modern day problem that controls high school ball. There is now an idea that because the parents put up large amounts of money, there should be some PT involved. I understand that. However, that's not what high school ball is supposed to be about. It's supposed to be about putting on that uniform for the school and being a part of the team, regardless of playing time. However, the shift of funding from schools to the families has changed things drastically. When you are requiring parents to put out that kind of money to play for the high school, you're now running your team like a club sport rather than a school sport and there should be no surprise when parents start feeling like they should get something for their money. HS ball is supposed to be about the community, but it's hard to feel that way when the community (through school tax support) isn't funding the team.

Is he generally only playing the top 9, even in blowout games? I think HS ball is about performance but a coach should still look to give the bench players some reps. Even MLB coaches give the 4th outfielders and utility guys regular playing time to keep them sharp, don't carry player on the roster that you can't use at all.

but of course at higher levels there is no equal playing time like in little league, the better players are going to play most of the time and especially when it is close.

I think it really depends on how your high school is set up.  Around my parts we have three levels - freshman, sophomore and Varsity (plus a small JV schedule).

Now my issue has been that at the lower levels, it should be about getting all of the kids ready to compete at the Varsity level as opposed to "winning."  But it is even worse when you school isn't talented enough to "win."  So rotate as much as possible.  Game reps are important. 

Varsity is a different matter -- the best 9+ play.  You're goal is to win every game thru the State championship.  If the lower levels did their job, the competition should be fierce to be one of those 9. 

Just my opinion. 

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

onsecond posted:

FoxDad posted:

Yep.  You can only control what you can control.  I'm assuming your son is a freshman or sophomore.  Despite what many want to believe not many freshman get to start right away on a varsity squad (unless he truly is a stud).  Juniors and Seniors will get the first crack.  Just be ready when your opportunity comes.  You may only get one shot.  A new or young player has to be good enough to force the coach into thinking he's making a big mistake by not playing him.  Can't be just equal to the starter - you have to be out and out better.

Just remember - it's the coaches team.  Your only job as parent is to cheer the team and support it how you see fit.

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

Hard to show how much better you are when you don't get the chance to display your skills. It is painful to watch these "stud" Freshman boot balls, drop fly balls, show zero IQ and have unproductive ABs.

This HS coach is killing my love for the game.  I can't wait for Summer travel ball to start!!!!

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

It's also how my son earned his way into the lineup in college.  He did it by showing what he had in practice.  Then he had to keep performing at that level to keep his starting position.  There is always somebody waiting for a chance behind you.

It's tough, no question, and there are no easy answers.  The only thing I know to do is to root for every kid on the team just like he was your own. 

This weekend I happened to be at an non-baseball event attended by a bunch of kids associated with the baseball program. There were a couple current starters, a kid who rides pine, a two kids who were cut, and one who quit due to lack of PT.  They were clearly a group of good friends all having a great time together, and if you didn't know which kid was which you would not be able to tell them apart.  My point is that it's always harder on us than it is on them.

Don't really like to stir the pot, but I find it interesting there are multiple starting freshmen which I assume none of the "three" mentioned are pitchers.  Not sure if the program has a JV team, much less a freshman team, but if so, I would have to assume coach is trying to send a strong message or is simply rolling with the freshman in hopes of having better teams in years to come.  I am curious as to whether there are JV/freshmen teams and and number of kids, by class, in the entire program.  Would also be interested in the win percentage.  Not trying to figure out who the team is, just looking for ballpark figures (pun intended).

The blowout games - either way - should always provide an opportunity to get 2nd and 3rd string guys on the field and get some live at bats.  If that is not happening, then either the coach has some reason he is not playing the other guys or he is simply not a very bright coach.  Does he have any other quirks?

onsecond posted:

My issue wouldn't be so bad if my kid is behind a  Senior or even another Junior.  I get you need to "pay your dues" as a player.  But when a Freshman (or two, or three) who has not "earned" their spot consistently gets the start, you have to wonder about moral in the dugout and in the stands.  

 

Of course I have absolutely no idea who your son is or if this applies, so please don't take it personally or a reflection of the talent your son may or may not have.  From your post, it sounds as though your son is a Junior.  It may very well be that your son isn't (and won't be) talented enough to be a starter for his school.  To that point, the varsity coach will likely be there longer than your son and is playing for the future.  By playing some of his frosh/soph's who may be his starters in the next year or two, he's planning for longer term success of the program, long after your son is gone.

That presents a dilemma for many coaches and I've seen our HS coach struggle with this.  You have loyal, good families pay their dues (monetary and through blood, sweat and tears) through JV for a couple of years. Come junior year, it's make varsity or nothing (unless working back from an injury).  So for those bubble kids, the choice is to cut them (often times breaking the kids heart), or keep them with little to no chance of seeing the field  What do you do?  If you ask 100 parents of juniors, it would probably be close to 50/50 in what they'd prefer.  My guess is that the split between players would be similar.  There's always that hope that they'll get their shot.  If they're not on the roster, there's absolutely no shot.

So a coach will carry a kid or two who probably shouldn't be there.  Then play underclassmen ahead of them because, frankly, that's what he should be doing for the program.  For many coaches the belief is that a kid will be happy to wear the school jersey and be part of the varsity team rather than be cut.  Parents who write the checks and feel the pain of seeing their kid on the bench have a different perspective than the coach.  

I get it, it's tough for both sides.  

FoxDad posted:

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

I used to argue this same point with a buddy of mine who lives in NJ and whose son played on a NJ HS team. But after a while, it became abundantly clear that non-baseball factors played a role, e.g., $ contributions to the program, networking, etc. There was nothing my friend's son could do on the practice field nor playing field to make a difference.

We all know that non-business factors impact business decisions, and as working adults, we have to deal with it. But at the HS athletics level? It's simply bulls h i t. No child should have to be in this situation.

ONSECOND: I hope there's a way for you to switch schools where the playing field is not slanted towards non-playing field factors.

PLEEEEEZZZE don't be "one of those parents"! HS ball is the time for these guys to really learn the game & what TEAM is all about. 

I doubt your son won't boot a ball, drop a fly or never strike out in his career. Let HIM enjoy the game & encourage HIS TEAMMATES to do their best. When your son has an opportunity, encourage him to make the most of it! Let go of the "daddy ball" attitude you have of the team...it won't help your son to hear you "compare", or how "grandiose" you think he is, or how his TEAMMATE may have made an error or whatever.  Think service...not disservice! Respect not disrespect! For your kids sake.

<rant over>. here, too 

onsecond posted:

I guess for what ever reason coaches have their pet projects and will continue to give them the opportunities regardless of onfield performance.

 

I guess for whatever reason parents continue to make excuses for their kids and be shocked when their kids grow up to be excuse makers and blame shifters.

Welcome to HS sports. Happens in many sports, not just baseball, or even just guy sports. All depends on how big your school is or if they have fresh, jc, varsity. It's not LL, and best players play. Maybe the coaches see something in Freshmen  players that u don't. Report back at end of season and tell us how they did or if he played them all season. Why should a more talented player have to wait to play if he's better than kid a yr older just because he's older? A lot happens at practice that parents don't see. 

find a summer team where son will get playing time and use HS practices to get ready for Summer. 

joemktg posted:

FoxDad posted:

How do you know those 2-3 freshman didn't earn the starting position?  

My son didn't make varsity until he was sophomore (varsity coach didn't even look at freshman in tryouts - only sophomores and up).   In the first game he was named the starting catcher (and remained there for the rest of the season).  Why?  He outperformed the senior during practice - out hit him and was simply better behind the plate - better arm and far fewer passed balls.  How did the coach discover this?  In practice.  It's not always during a game that you get the opportunity to show what you have.

I used to argue this same point with a buddy of mine who lives in NJ and whose son played on a NJ HS team. But after a while, it became abundantly clear that non-baseball factors played a role, e.g., $ contributions to the program, networking, etc. There was nothing my friend's son could do on the practice field nor playing field to make a difference.

We all know that non-business factors impact business decisions, and as working adults, we have to deal with it. But at the HS athletics level? It's simply bulls h i t. No child should have to be in this situation.

ONSECOND: I hope there's a way for you to switch schools where the playing field is not slanted towards non-playing field factors.

If your a great player, u will play. Maybe buddies son was only average player and he blamed outside factors for lack of playing time. Who knows

This player is Jr. and prob an average player. To switch schools for baseball is not a good idea IMO. If a player is good they can play on a summer team and be seen if they want to play at next level. Here u can't just switch schools unless it's to private one or you move. Whose to say player who moves will actually play at second school?

I believe your chances of playing increase exponentially if you can play catcher and can pitch, in addition to doing all the other things a coach needs a starter to do.  I'm always amazed at kids who simply cast themselves as LF or RF and are content with that. 

All too often kids get by in LL and then rec league ball in middle school by simply playing LF or RF and thinking they can always play there.  Come high school, LF and RF are no longer the positions you "hide" weak players.    HS ball, even JV, is a whole new game that most players are not used to. 

For many, it is a dose of reality.  And it should be.  It is a great separator.