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It’s really maddening for sure. Especially when the kid clicks every intangible box you could ever want him to. So much for coaches care about the entire player and who he is. ROFL

There was a time where I allowed this to get to me.  My son is small, but has D1 measurables and he checks all the intangible boxes.  It used to bother me that it wasn't "fair," but I left all that baggage behind.  A) it's not forward moving to live there and B) no one can blame coaches for their 21st century approach.  What are coaches really doing?  They're leveraging efficiencies and they're using math to make educated guesses in projecting players.  In this day and age, how many coaches have tons of time to really dig deep into evaluating a kid like mine?  Roughly none.  You can't see my son's high AVG and OBP in a showcase or camp.  You often can't see it over the course of one tourney.  It's not sexy when viewed in small sample sizes.  Want to get a TRUE picture of exactly what my son will give you?  Well, settle it because his overall value - while high - is best viewed over time.  Not with 8 swings of BP at a showcase or whatever.  You'll need to be patient with my kid and that much quicker with your other recruits because your time is finite.  And time is likely your most valuable commodity.  Imagine being a coach who puts in the marathon for a prospect and then it turns out that it wasn't worth it.  D'oh!  How many marathons do you run without finishing before you're forced to try sprinting?

I always put it like this.  What would Vegas say about the recruit if they were handicapping the process?  The coaches know.  Add up all the best college players who were most successful over the past year.  Or 2, 5 or 10.  Then separate them into 2 groups: 1) 5'10" and under and 2) 5'11 and above.  Everyone knows which group will be larger.  Much larger.  That's not bias or laziness.  That's just math.

So when you're pressed for time and resources and are getting pelted with 300 emails every day, a coach (who wants to keep his job) HAS to draw some lines; some thresholds under which he can't put in the time for a recruit. Height, weight, exit velo, etc can all be measured in minutes.  Will a coach miss out out some amazing players operating this way?  Without question.  But the math clearly points to where the risk is less.  We can't fault any coach for playing the best odds.  That's simply smart.

Height goes back to one of the main mantras on the board ... Control what you can. Don’t waste time on what you can’t control. 

A player can’t control his height. He can control/optimize his strength, speed and measurable skills. It’s the best a player can do. Then figure out where these skills fit in the college game. 

Players with the skill set of a Nick Madrigal aren’t overlooked. Smaller players with lesser skills probably aren’t pro prospects. Find your fit in the game for a quality baseball experience and get a quality education. 

Agree with Dan and RJM both valid posts. It’s funny because I talked to the HC at my Alma Mater (smaller D1) he said it’s simple, “with the draft and how kids enter the program now it’s tough for us to rely on “projecting” when every year it’s our job on the line. So for us we need more of a finished product.”

When he said it I let it sit a bit and realized in some ways he’s right. So they (coaches) are just a product of the environment. They react to what will work and need more immediate results...D1’s tend to want to project far less now than 20 years ago. It’s just the truth.

Agree with Dan and RJM both valid posts. It’s funny because I talked to the HC at my Alma Mater (smaller D1) he said it’s simple, “with the draft and how kids enter the program now it’s tough for us to rely on “projecting” when every year it’s our job on the line. So for us we need more of a finished product.”

When he said it I let it sit a bit and realized in some ways he’s right. So they (coaches) are just a product of the environment. They react to what will work and need more immediate results...D1’s tend to want to project far less now than 20 years ago. It’s just the truth.

It's also MUCH easier for them to project now. Twenty years ago, there weren't many chances to see players going up against other D1 talent players on a regular basis. Today, with PG and other high level events, there's just a LOT more info out there than was available in the 90's.

Improve on what you have to work with show your desire to love the game.  My son (MI) was "average" in high school, 5'10 - 5'11 and 170's.  He knew that hard work, effort, and understanding the game better than others would hopefully give him an edge.  Beginning of Sr. year only 2 D1 schools were willing to take a chance on him.  He accepted one and for the 3 years he did well.  He did manage to grow to 6' and fill out a little 190's.  Was drafted in 1st round, minors for a couple of years and now MLB.  Even now sports writers ask him about his size and success, which he still admits to them he doesn't pass the eye test that fans envision a professional athlete to be.  He's not quite as small as Madrigal but as RJM has said "Control what you can, don't waste time on what you can't control.  With hard work, talent, and being in the right place at the right time (luck) hopefully your son will fulfill his dream.  

Last edited by Trust In Him

Root totally agree. When I was in HS We barely knew who played in the next town and you only knew of the great players by what you read in a newspaper. Crazy. I was telling both my brother in laws ( both  former D1 MIF) they way things are today  ,and with all the info and film so readily available, I truly believe none of us would have been recruited as D1 players in today’s environment. It’s the way it is.

 

@RJM posted:

Height goes back to one of the main mantras on the board ... Control what you can. Don’t waste time on what you can’t control. 

A player can’t control his height. He can control/optimize his strength, speed and measurable skills. It’s the best a player can do. Then figure out where these skills fit in the college game. 

Players with the skill set of a Nick Madrigal aren’t overlooked. Smaller players with lesser skills probably aren’t pro prospects. Find your fit in the game for a quality baseball experience and get a quality education. 

interestingly, OSU had another undersized dude on that team (steven kwan) get picked in the 5th round of the same draft. were the beavers just lucky in the their recruiting or have they picked up on a metric that others aren't wise to yet?

@mattys posted:

interestingly, OSU had another undersized dude on that team (steven kwan) get picked in the 5th round of the same draft. were the beavers just lucky in the their recruiting or have they picked up on a metric that others aren't wise to yet?

Despite his physical makeup at sixteen Kwan showcased and projected well ...

Steven Kwan is a 2015 OF/LHP with a 5-8 150 lb. frame from Fremont, CA who attends Washington. Small frame, thin immature build, hidden strength. Short load, quick hands, projectable bat speed with physical maturity, good leverage, short to the ball, line drive swing plane, good balance, simple swing mechanics, good hitting tools to project on. Runs well, bunted for a hit in game, gets down the line well. Stood out in outfield workout, moves well and attacks the baseball aggressively, covers good ground, quick feet, quick projectable arm, online throws with good carry. Also pitched and ran his fastball up to 85 mph, projectable velocity, smooth delivery pitching from a three quarter arm slot. Good young tools to develop. Good student.

Thanks for the responses glad I conjured this one back from the dead.  Just to go back to my original questions, remember this is a 5"5" kid (who a love like a son by the way) saying he's 5"9" but looking at his numbers and saying telling himself he can play anywhere so it doesn't matter so just fudge your height. Isn't that going to get him into trouble?  That's the real issue I was asking about not whether 5"10 guys can legitimately make the major leagues. 

Thanks for the responses glad I conjured this one back from the dead.  Just to go back to my original questions, remember this is a 5"5" kid (who a love like a son by the way) saying he's 5"9" but looking at his numbers and saying telling himself he can play anywhere so it doesn't matter so just fudge your height. Isn't that going to get him into trouble?  That's the real issue I was asking about not whether 5"10 guys can legitimately make the major leagues. 

I’ll make it simple. What baseball people are telling him he’s a D1 prospect? There are more potential D1 prospects than there are D1 slots. With the exception of a handful of physical late bloomers D1 prospects are recruited by 17u travel teams and told by their coaching staff they’re D1 prospects. Is this the case?

Don’t try to put a square peg in a round hole. For every player who makes D1 as a long shot here are a lot of players who get left out when the music stops playing. They get caught without a chair fishing in the wrong pond.

If a kid isn’t a pro prospect find the right place to have a quality baseball experience regardless of level and get an good education. For most players college baseball is about the beginning of a forty year plan, not a pro career.

Last edited by RJM

Thanks for the responses glad I conjured this one back from the dead.  Just to go back to my original questions, remember this is a 5"5" kid (who a love like a son by the way) saying he's 5"9" but looking at his numbers and saying telling himself he can play anywhere so it doesn't matter so just fudge your height. Isn't that going to get him into trouble?  That's the real issue I was asking about not whether 5"10 guys can legitimately make the major leagues. 

You are right.  He should not lie.  

If he is 5’ 5.5” and he rounds to 5’ 6”.  Fine. But 4 inches, that can only go really bad for him.  

Plus 5’ 9” is not going to do anything anyways.  I don’t think any coach that is using height as a determine factor is going to say, “I really like this kid, only if he was 5’ 9” then I’d sign him”.

But if there is a coach that sees something he likes about him and makes the investment to come watch him play this will be a big turn off.  The first thing the coach is going to see is that he lied.  If he is there to only watch him and not others, he is more then likely to leave before the game starts.

We see this a lot with top travel teams.  A kids dad says that his 13u kid is 6’ 0” and throw 75 MPH.  Because that is where most of the kids on the team are, and Dad thinks “everyone is exaggerating “.   Dad and kid flys in, quickly realizes that no one but him is exaggerating.  Kid stands 5’ 8” and throws max 63. Kid gets his one at bat per game and strikes out every time.  Never see that kid again.

So again, don’t lie.  Focus on his strengths.

This is an old thread but I have a similar question related to height and thought I'd post it here. My nephew is a very good player and is only about 5'5" 145 as a 2022 who red shirted due to his size (didn't help much).  He's very talented and has top 10% metrics metrics as an OF.   MLB aside are do D1 colleges looking a kid that's only 5'5" 150 as a 17 year old or should he be more focused on D2 or D3?  He is currently tweeting at and sending video "power 5 conferences" and has gotten some responses but in his profile lists himself as 5'9 155.  I think 4 inches is a bit disingenuous and he should think about being more realistic but my brother in law thinks that everyone exaggerates so it doesn't matter what you put in the profile.   Thoughts from anyone with experience appreciated. I get that size shouldn't matter but reading above it probably does and a 5 inch fib seems like it could tick off some College Coaches/RCs.  

Rounding up one inch is "ok", adding 4 inches in certainly not and will get noticed and have a negative effect.

And of course being that short and small is a disadvantage, he needs to have tools to make up for that, especially speed and hittability. Also work on your strength to have at least adequate power for his height but don't get too heavy because nobody wants to have the bad body 5'6 200 guy. But at 145 he should at least add 10-15 pounds even at that height.

 

But first of all he needs to hit a lot, because nobody wants to have a 5'6 guy  who strikes out and he also must be fast and athletic enough to play up  the middle.

@RoadRunner posted:

He is 17. Power 5 are mostly done with recruiting his class. It would be a long shot to get P5 offers at this stage of his process. Short guys CAN play D1. Hit the ball!  
There are other programs besides P5. Target those. Get your summer ball coach involved in promoting the player. Be on a team that faces stud pitching regularly and dominate. Dominate in front of the schools you have interest, that are still recruiting. 
I can’t stress this enough: HIT THE BALL. 

Performance is definitely key for everyone but more so for the smaller or undertooled guys. Generally the great body, great athlete guys need to prove they can't hit while the smaller or lesser tooled guy needs to prove he can.

That is why a top international prospect or first round high schooler makes prospect lists after half a year of performance while a 10th rounder needs to rake 3 years to get noticed. 

Basically with the great tooled guys you already have a bias and you only need to see a bit of performance and you will believe it. That is why wander Franco became the top rated prospect in baseball in like his first pro year (same could happen to jasson Dominguez if he hits).

And with lesser tooled guys you need to see it more to believe it.

 Btw I think this is not even a bad thing. There are tooled guys who can't hit but if a tooled up guy shows he can hit at a lower level it is more likely to translate.

You even see it in the minors. If you have a great tool prospect and he performs in A ball with a decent k to bb rate it is likely he will succeed. On the other hand there are undertooled guys who perform in A ball because they have a good approach but it doesn't scale to higher levels (happens to later round college draftees who dominate rookie ball) so with those guys you need to wait until they show it at higher levels.

Last edited by Dominik85

I got my eyes opened at a College Showcase when I became the designated driver one Saturday night for a dozen college coaches in a Conversion Van used to bus the team.  2 hours jammed in a hotel room pounding a couple of bottles of whiskey and cases of beer and then to the local bars.

One of the more interesting approaches was "I only recruit middle infielders and pitchers."   The guys that can't get the SS job will be converted to corners and OF even C.  Notion was the best player of every HS team was playing short.  He did admit he would take big power for a corner IF.  None had interest in little guys and anyone that couldn't run.

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To the OP...there is an ACC commit on my son's summer team who is 5'6", maybe 5'7". He may have stretched his height by an inch or so but for the most part embraces his size and stands out by consistently getting on bases, having QABs, and running/ stealing the bases with aggression and moxie. He took a picture with my son who is on the other side of the spectrum and did a side-by-side of an Altuve/Judge picture on IG. LOL All this to say, and I think this is the answer to a lot of baseball recruiting questions, the best bet is to work on being the best version of yourself and hopefully finding the team that appreciates YOU and needs YOU rather than trying to pretend you are something you are not. 

Last edited by PTWood
@mihood622 posted:

My son is a bigger kid. We just say 6' 3". He could definitely round up but it does not matter as much but it looks like everyone does some number manipulation. Just go look at Kyler Murrays PG profile, it lists him at 6' 1". Then his NFL profile says 5' 10"......   No reason to lie when you're that good. LOL

Cleats, man. Cleats.

Used to be common in the NBA where guys would be listed at 7' or 7' 1" then in the NBA listed at 6' 10" / 6' 11". Measuring height in shoes in college and high school is the way to go.

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