"If you are good enough, they will find you"

It depends on how good is good.

If you're from a small town and you're good enough to play NAIA baseball will the right school find you? Probably not.

If you're good enough to be drafted in the first half of the first round will they find you?
Guaranteed.

Like I have said many times. If your good enough they will find you. As long as you dont mind who finds you.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
Like I have said many times. If your good enough they will find you. As long as you dont mind who finds you.

"As long as you don't mind who finds you." The key I would think.

workinghard,

These type questions are not hard to answer, but if someone didn't know me, they might think I have every reason to slant the truth.

Oddly enough, I've been working on an article for our website that touches on this subject. It will give many examples regarding the question... If you are good enough will they find you!

In some cases it is actually true, but that leads to other “W” issues besides WILL they find you, like...

WHEN will they find you?
WHERE will they find you?
WHO will find you?
WHY will they find you?
WHAT will they find?
WILL they find out enough?

WHY WAIT if you’re truly good enough? WOULDN’T it be better if everyone knew about you, rather than just a few? It’s true that sometimes it only takes one to like you, but isn’t it better if they “all” like you? The more options a player has, the more well known a player is, can create many more opportunities. If you’re good enough, they “will” all like you!

Research what the top high school draft picks have done. Then you will see that nearly every one of them did not wait for someone to find them. Find out how many just stayed home and waited to be found. Yes, they were found and that created the opportunity to attend Perfect Game events, WWBA events, Area codes, East Coast Pro, USA Baseball, and to be on top travel teams. Then that becomes where the whole scouting and recruiting world gets to see them. There is a reason why all those big events are scouted so heavily… The scouts and recruiters are there to “FIND” prospects!

Anyway, I work slowly so it might take a little time to finish that article I mentioned earlier. When it is done, I hope someone here links to it. We deal with many Major League Scouting Directors and I can’t tell you how many times they will admit that their scouting department “missed” someone. Unknown players who would have been drafted out of high school had they been found… Becoming first round picks out of college. They know this exists, so what about the outstanding talented high school player missed by the colleges, or just didn’t cut it in college, or didn’t go to college, or got hurt before anyone noticed him?

To think they never miss a player is simply untrue! We found one last year that was a college basketball player who pitched about 9 innings all year on the baseball team at a DIII college. No one knew who he was, but after one event, and with no background he was drafted last year. Before attending that one event... No one had found him and they weren't going to find him.

The problem is that some take it for granted they are all found. They point to certain Big League players as an example. Heck, that’s easy… They didn’t miss those guys and everyone knows it. Now try to name the guys they missed… Who are they?... Can’t name them, so I guess they just weren’t good enough?... You can’t name the guys who were missed because… They were missed…. We don’t know who they are! But there is plenty of reasons to know they exist!

This is not a PG promotion! Players don’t have to go to our events to be found. But most need to do something other than just sitting around waiting to be discovered. You can’t become a “high profile” type until most everyone that is a decision maker knows who you are. It’s a big world out there, there are more colleges than the one next door. We’ve seen kids walk on at local colleges when they had big scholarship talent elsewhere. We’ve seen kids get big scholarship offers from the local college only because other colleges around the country were making good offers.

That’s enough for now! But I could go on forever with hundreds of “real” examples from coast to coast. Many of those running the top travel team “club” programs around the country have seen some of these examples. They understand that more options can be extremely beneficial.

Besides all that, we think our most important job is to find talented players. We have the largest scouting staff in all of baseball. Yes many more than any MLB club. And we still miss some players every year!

I have said that many times but the first time I heard it was from the father of a outstanding pitcher who had a tremendous college career and now is in milb.

You can limit your options or you can seek to expand them. If you take the road "If your good enough they will find you" then your leaving it up to chance that first of all someone will find you and secondly it will be the right choice for your son. If you are proactive in seeking out opportunities you will give yourself more options and more choices.

PG,
Could you post a link to the article on the pitcher who was still throwing gas at 50 or so years old. The one who didn't play pro ball.

The thread should be changed to "if you are great they will find you". This is true, however we are talking about very very few kids in this category.

Everyone else needs to find someone to help find them.

I once believed the statement but found it to not be true. The statement above about being found if you're drafted in the first half of the first round of the draft is much closer to reality.

Chances are if a kid is a jaw dropping stud almost everyone will find him. The rest of the players won't get exposure outside their immediate area without showcases unless they're playing with or against the jaw dropping stud. There are also players (and their parents) who don't look outside their little world. They think they're studs only to find out too late they aren't when compared to the baseball universe.

I did hear until Mark Rogers from Orrs Island, Maine (pop: 200) attended a couple of showcases a few years ago, he was headed for UMaine. Afterwards he was headed for UMiami had he not been the fifth pick in the draft.

When Rogers pitched in the state championship game his senior year against the high school comprised of many of the previous year's Legion national champions (including Ryan Flaherty/first round supplemental in 2008) the game drew 8,000 at the home of the Red Sox AA team.

The problem to me is that a lot of people don't realize what being "found" means. Everything that PG talked about is the gospel in terms of attending the high profile stuff. Even if you are a low end player - NAIA or D3 - you still have to put yourself out there and probably more so than the high end players. I know in my 9 years as head coach and all the other years that I've been an asst. in baseball and football most parents and players don't have a clue. They either think the HS coach can pick up the phone and get a scholarship or the scouts just automatically know where to go. That is so far from the truth that it leads to players being missed.

It's like selling a car - if you live out in the sticks with very few people around you and you put a "for sale" sign in the window and park it in the driveway you won't get many people asking about it. But if you put it in trade n sells, car publications and internet ads then the number of people who may want to buy your call goes up.

If you step foot on a baseball field anywhere there is a chance you may be found but it's going to be very slim and it might not be the place you want to go. Your talent level might be good enough to go to a bigger / better school but you never know because you limited your opportunity.

But if you go to showcases, camps and play on good teams then your chances go way up because you advertised your talents.

Quick story (although it might not be) - One year when I was head coach my school was between two schools that each one had phenomenal players. We played the school to the east of us first and they had a kid who was throwing around 91 - 92. During the game there were about 7 or 8 MLB scouts there and he had a great game against us. After the game I was talking to one of the scouts and asked him about this other player at the school to the west of us. He said he had never heard of him.

We played the team to the west and nobody was there to watch him. He was a legitimate player who finally ended up at U of Louisville and was Big East frosh of the year.

The point I'm trying to make is the pitcher to the east of me put his name out there a little more. He knew this guy who ran a baseball business that was really connected and he was able to get his name out there more than the kid to the west. I'm not saying the kid from the west sat at home because he did play on a pretty good summer team but just that in itself was not enough to get his name out there enough.

You got to remember - as a player you don't want to hide from these people so you got to do whatever you can to get in front of them. Even then you still might NOT be seen by the right person.

BOF,

Probably the most important talent a scout can have is his ability to project talent. To predict how good that player will be in 4 or 5 years or even after that.

If the above means anything, even some of the greatest of players were in fact missed or easily could have been missed to some degree. Stephen Strasburg was not unknown when he was a high school pitcher. I personally heard some scouts talking about the things he lacked. Now just a few years later he is talked about as the greatest draft prospect ever.

I guess you could say they didn't miss him, but he went undrafted out of high school and he was throwing in the 90s back then. No one predicted what was going to happen. Everyone missed on accurately evaluating Steven Strasburg! Even us!

Wonder what would have happened if Stephen didn't pitch in college for some reason? Is it pssible there could be others who didn't have things work out quite so well? Was Stephen Strasburg "found" or did he just shove it down everyone's throat?

Yes, he improved dramatically in college. Surely there are others who have or would have improved in college. Surely some who had the ability to improve in college but did not play in college and were not found.

Buster Posey was drafted in the 50th round out of high school as a small pitcher/shortstop.

Carl Crawford was a football prospect with amazing athletic ability. No one was overly excited in him as a baseball player until he showcased his baseball ability. Then he went with the first pick of the 2nd round.

Until his senior year Zach Greinke was a lower round type 3B that we even worked out as a catcher.

No one except Dewan Brazelton's HS coach and local people knew about him in high school. He ended up at Middle Tennessee locally and became a first rounder.

Absolutely no one had ever heard of Jason Berken when he was in high school, even Clemson, where he went to college. He pitched in the Big Leagues last year.

No scout knew who Zach Shreiber was in high school, even his eventual college "Duke" didn't know about him. He has spent lots of time in AAA.

Yes, these are the ones who ended up being "found". There are many others like them who weren't so lucky. You can now find them working at factories, policemen, firemen, construction, offices, etc. We can't mention them by name because no one ever found them! They are not household names because we don't know who they are. We just know they exist. Might even be a couple who post here for all we know!

CADad, Here is the story about Eddie who is reaching Social Security age. By the time they found him, he was too old! Ed Sawvell

Sticking my neck out but want to clear something up. This thread got started, IMO, by something I said which was

quote:

If your good enough they will find you. You do not need to transfer or let someone talk you into transferring. Make sure you play on team in the summer that is either high profile or that competes against the high profile teams. Also mix in some showcases.

I never intended for this to come across as don't do anything and sit back. My intention was to say that the kid does not need to transfer to another high school. Coaches all the time are trying to recruit kids to transfer to other high schools by saying they will never get seen at the school they are at. I want my players going to show cases and playing on scout teams, they face better talent. However, all I meant was the kid did not need to transfer schools to be seen.

RJM,

Mark became very well known once he started to show his ability to everyone.

Here is an even better example of a kid who became a first rounder (19th pick) out of Boston College. After both his senior high school season and starring in Legion ball, he had absolutely no college interest or offers and was not recruited. MLB Scouts didn’t even know who he was. He wasn't going to play baseball in college or ever again. Until one single highly scouted event after his senior year in high school he was headed to college to play “hockey”! I had to talk his dad into taking him to that event which changed his life forever. He ended up from being unknown by all in baseball to becoming one of those great ones who went in the first round. In one day he went from unknown to being the talk of the scouting community. And he was just as talented before all this happened.

I think everyone "needs" to read this 2004 Baseball America article written shortly after that event, it is an AMAZING story and it speaks volumes regarding this subject. Please be sure to read this one!
Last Chance

Quick Story...

Pro Scout comes to HS game that Junior is pitching in his senior year early in the season...Junior is unknown, scout is there to see opposing pitching who also is teams best hitter, very good 2 way player.

On the day, opposing pitcher gives up 7 runs, sitting 89. Junior throws a 4 hitter, striking out 14, sitting 89, including striking out opposing pitcher/best hitter 3 times. Found out later, scout never even wrote down Juniors name...he was just there to see the other guy. Not saying this is typical, but it does go against the, "if you're good enough, they'll find you", mantra.

BTW, opposing pitcher is now very successful D1 and was top 10 in USA most of last year in ERA as a soph.

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Probably the most important talent a scout can have is his ability to project talent. To predict how good that player will be in 4 or 5 years or even after that.

Very true, what about College coaches?

Many who read here wonder about the same question regarding them.

I know a player who met recently with the coach of a very high profile school, he was talking about early signings but it is relevant. I am paraphrasing, but he essentially said “you are just 16 and I don’t know where you will be at even one year from now, both academically and athletically. There is no way I can offer someone a position at this point in time, there are just too many variables”. This school was very selective and only takes the top academic and athletic kids, so they had two dimensions to worry about, but the point is the same, projecting is not easy, even one year let alone 4-5.

As a side note he also said that did not bring anyone in to redshirt them, everyone they brought in came in with the intent on playing.

This coach would have never known about this kid without him making first contact with the school. The coach did the background work after he was made aware of him and took the time to meet with the player, but there was no way this coach would have ever known about him without someone helping him.

There is a method to all this madness .....

First and foremost if your son is a high profile player rest assured THEY will find him. "THEY" being every summer coach, college coach, high school coach, showcase promoter, recruiting service, newspaper etc..... Each have an agenda that NEEDS (or at least wants) your son for their survival.

1. Now that parents have become "educated" to the recruiting process they are doing everything they can do to see that "their" son gets to play college ball (hopefully with a scholarship).

Sometimes they forget that:

2. College coaches are doing everything they can to located players with college potential that can help "their" program and their job security.

3. High school coaches are doing what they can to see that "their" players go on to play college ball. The recognition of having one of "his players" make it is huge.

4. Summer coaches are doing everything they can to see that "their" players go on to play college ball to boost "their" credentials and enhance their recruiting efforts of talented players next year.

5. Showcase promoters are doing what they can to see that "their" players go on to play college ball to boost their credentials and enhance their ability to draw the big name players in the future.

6. Recruiting services are doing all they can to see that "their" players get to play college ball to boost their credentials and allow them to compete for the talented players.

*Exposure is good ---- and expensive. Do what you can but you don't have to go overboard.

*The number of roster spots does not change. Roster spots are not dependent on how much money changes hands at showcases, summer teams or recruiting services. If the exposure process changes due to the economy, the number of roster spots will remain the same and the most talented players will fill those roster spots.

Fungo

Actually the number of roster spots has gone down slightly due to the economy.

PGStaff's contributions to the thread on spot on! In talking to a college coach last night about my child, it was mentioned that a lot of coaches know about her. Few have seen her. She won't receive significant interest until they see her. Then, the question is, how do we know which winter college camps she should go to and who are the most serious? Which one are interested? Who has he money? Who has the positon available? Again, PGSTaff's contribution is worth the read!

We've discussed this quote before, and its many failings.

Here are some things to consider:

If you're not out there playing, where exactly is it they're supposed to find you? In your backyard?

If you're playing only against your local competition, and not challenging yourself against the top competition on par with what you would face in college or pro ball, how the heck is anyone supposed to know how studly you supposedly are? Some lower level HS competition will see few pitchers above 80 mph. How is anyone supposed to know if you can handle the move up to 85-90 mph pitching, if they've never seen you face that level of challenge?

Someone says you throw 92 mph. Is the source considered credible by the college of your choice? Lots of people make inflated claims about their MPH. Most people cite a reading they claim they got on one pitch one time under ideal conditions. How is someone supposed to know what you REALLY throw in game situations? Are they supposed to chase you around the countryside in your 2-per-week HS games? What if they decide to pick someone else who made it easy for them to verify his MPH, maybe by going to a WWBA event where the scouts all were present already and where they and PG had guns trained on every pitch -- instead of taking you as the proverbial "pig in a poke"?

So what if someone finds you. Were you found by the school you want to attend? Were you holding enough cards that you were able to negotiate your best deal? I mean, suppose you got 25%. Should you have played the field, gotten the schools to compete for you, and wound up with maybe 60%? Or more? Almost nobody gets 100%, so college deals are all negotiated. Shouldn't you go into those negotiations with some sort of leverage, to avoid being taken advantage of?


Bottom line, the reasons for a qualified player to hit the travel circuit are legion. The quote in the thread title is nothing but an excuse for being lazy, maybe for saving money, maybe for the HS coach to ask you to give up travel ball for something else he wants you to do or to avoid anything that makes him feel like second fiddle. Anytime you hear anyone say this stuff, butt in and say, "Whoa, not so fast."