Why don't you just spit it right out Smokey?
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Why don't you just spit it right out Smokey?
Why don't you just spit it right out Smokey?
For all of the negative comments about my beloved Cubbies, I have become, as a great old band used to say, "Comfortably Numb".
And for all of you frustrated Sox fans, I say - Don't get your panties in a bunch.
And for all of you frustrated Sox fans, I say - Don't get your panties in a bunch.
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I never get them in a bunch...I can only afford one pair at a time!
I never get them in a bunch...I can only afford one pair at a time!
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I don't know where in the heck these came from.
Can you use 'em JK?
I don't know where in the heck these came from.
Can you use 'em JK?
Maine South 3
Addison Trail 4
Addison Trail 4
Wood, Here's an added accessory for ya...
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Do I have enough cash?
'Cuz I spent a bundle on these...
Do I have enough cash?
'Cuz I spent a bundle on these...
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Sorry for the diversion ballyall...
...back to the scores!
By the way...have you ever considered sporting a moustache?
Sorry for the diversion ballyall...
...back to the scores!
By the way...have you ever considered sporting a moustache?
Maine SOuth 2
St Pats 6
St Pats 6
Maine South 2
Elg Grove Village High School 10
Elg Grove Village High School 10
Maine South 10
Conant 7
Conant 7
Maine South 1
Nazareth 4
Nazareth 4
Ball, do you ever feel like you're alone on an island? I admire your persistance. I think. At least playoffs start soon... Maybe someone can spice this up by making some predictions about the state tourny.
How do you predict the outcome of a single elimination baseball tournament? We at Naperville Central hope that history repeats itself, Central is the only team that made the final eight both this spring and last summer. We won the sectional championship game last June starting 7 juniors in the batting order and a sophmore starting pitcher. These guys are all back.
That means we'll probably lose on Monday this summer. We'll see.
That means we'll probably lose on Monday this summer. We'll see.
JKENNEDY-
An island? Perhaps Chappaquiddick. Well, I am a bit surprised by the lack of posts, but if you are insinuating that I stand alone in my belief in the value of hs summer league, I believe that you are incorrect. And if I am alone, I am proud to be.
You may continue bad mouthing the quality of play and the coaching, but I take solace in the number of helicopter parents who are sure that their child is the next top draft pick and that the only way to get there is by paying huge money for showcases and travel ball.
Give me the kid who understands that you truly compete against the game rather than against the other team.
That, Senator kennedy, is the kid who will be successful.
An island? Perhaps Chappaquiddick. Well, I am a bit surprised by the lack of posts, but if you are insinuating that I stand alone in my belief in the value of hs summer league, I believe that you are incorrect. And if I am alone, I am proud to be.
You may continue bad mouthing the quality of play and the coaching, but I take solace in the number of helicopter parents who are sure that their child is the next top draft pick and that the only way to get there is by paying huge money for showcases and travel ball.
Give me the kid who understands that you truly compete against the game rather than against the other team.
That, Senator kennedy, is the kid who will be successful.
huh.
You "truly compete against the game". So what's the purpose of the other team? Which part of the score is more important then - the runs you score, or the runs you let up? What would a pitcher be without a batter to compete against? Or a hitter without a pitcher to compete against? We're not playing golf here. The competition you face - from the OTHER TEAM - is what tests you. The game changes only in direct relation to the quality of the players ON THE OTHER TEAM. Without ANOTHER TEAM there is no GAME.
And when you say you "take solace" in the number of helicopter parents... you're comforted that there are so many (or few) of them? Happy that their players succeed (or fail?) Am I automatically a "helicopter" because I looked for more competitive summer teams for my boys that would provide exposure that they were no way going to get playing for their high school summer team? Our coach ENCOURAGED his starters to go elsewhere for their summer ball... what does that tell you?
High school summer ball (in our conference - can't speak for the whole state) is several steps below the level of regular high school ball - and that's being kind. Been there, lived through it three times and don't know how anyone can think it's even worth talking about. Until the playoffs start, then it's a whole new ball game. But with a one-and-done format, even that becomes a bit of a game of chance.
You "truly compete against the game". So what's the purpose of the other team? Which part of the score is more important then - the runs you score, or the runs you let up? What would a pitcher be without a batter to compete against? Or a hitter without a pitcher to compete against? We're not playing golf here. The competition you face - from the OTHER TEAM - is what tests you. The game changes only in direct relation to the quality of the players ON THE OTHER TEAM. Without ANOTHER TEAM there is no GAME.
And when you say you "take solace" in the number of helicopter parents... you're comforted that there are so many (or few) of them? Happy that their players succeed (or fail?) Am I automatically a "helicopter" because I looked for more competitive summer teams for my boys that would provide exposure that they were no way going to get playing for their high school summer team? Our coach ENCOURAGED his starters to go elsewhere for their summer ball... what does that tell you?
High school summer ball (in our conference - can't speak for the whole state) is several steps below the level of regular high school ball - and that's being kind. Been there, lived through it three times and don't know how anyone can think it's even worth talking about. Until the playoffs start, then it's a whole new ball game. But with a one-and-done format, even that becomes a bit of a game of chance.
Ball - I don't think I've ever been more confused by a post in my life.. You've even got mythree baffled, and he is smarter than your average bear. If you are taking a shot at the parents that run their sons all over the country for showcases and travel ball, you're not insulting me.. All three of mine played local travel at minimal cost and the only showcase I've ever taken any of my sons to was Stevenson, at a cost of $80.00. If it offends you that I question some of the coaching techniques I have witnessed of late, don't read the posts. And I agree that there is value in (pre-playoff) summer ball... Just slightly more than a 30 minute practice. In the rain. And nice touch, adding the political name-calling. If your post is void of a determinable purpose, it might as well lack maturity too.
JKEnnedy--
First of all, I am not trying to insult you. To warrant an insult, I believe, one must feel a certain level of concern/care for another--I do not know you, so therefore I am really not attempting a personal attack. Also, the references to the politcial families were merely in fun.
You feel the need to justify your decisions for your son (maybe I touched a nerve). Again, I do not know you and it has nothing to do with you.
My point is that over the past two and a half decades I have seen parents get progressively worse in terms of realistic expectations for their sons. For the vast majority of players, hs summer ball is sufficient. By the way, did you ever stop to think that if parents didn't shell out the bucks for travel ball and merely stayed with hs summer ball, the competition would be tremendous. No need to burn an entire summer in hotels and airfare!
Bottom line, travel ball, legion ball, and all of these other teams that promise those big scholarships because of EXPOSURE have diminished the talent of hs summer ball a bit. Why not return all the kids to their hs teams, increase the talent pool, let them gel as a team before the spring, and have some pride in their schools again.
Just a thought (albeit a magnificent one!)
First of all, I am not trying to insult you. To warrant an insult, I believe, one must feel a certain level of concern/care for another--I do not know you, so therefore I am really not attempting a personal attack. Also, the references to the politcial families were merely in fun.
You feel the need to justify your decisions for your son (maybe I touched a nerve). Again, I do not know you and it has nothing to do with you.
My point is that over the past two and a half decades I have seen parents get progressively worse in terms of realistic expectations for their sons. For the vast majority of players, hs summer ball is sufficient. By the way, did you ever stop to think that if parents didn't shell out the bucks for travel ball and merely stayed with hs summer ball, the competition would be tremendous. No need to burn an entire summer in hotels and airfare!
Bottom line, travel ball, legion ball, and all of these other teams that promise those big scholarships because of EXPOSURE have diminished the talent of hs summer ball a bit. Why not return all the kids to their hs teams, increase the talent pool, let them gel as a team before the spring, and have some pride in their schools again.
Just a thought (albeit a magnificent one!)
quote:And I agree that there is value in (pre-playoff) summer ball... Just slightly more than a 30 minute practice. In the rain.
I sure hope that my players have appreciated my efforts and commitment to them and their development this summer in this
Thanks JU for the motivation
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:quote:And I agree that there is value in (pre-playoff) summer ball... Just slightly more than a 30 minute practice. In the rain.
I sure hope that my players have appreciated my efforts and commitment to them and their development this summer in thisslightlyworthwhile endeavour.
Thanks JU for the motivation
They do Coach, and if perchance they do not now, they will someday.
Bally - I think you'd have to be pretty thick to not perceive your "play on names" as an attempt to be insulting - Chappaquiddick? Would you consider that Teddy's finest hour?
I agree with you though, that it would be great if hs summer teams were comprised of the same players who make up varsity teams - then you'd really have something. (You'll notice I lamented the same earlier in this thread.) I think it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of money that parents can end up spending on showcases and travel teams in the quest for the holy grail of college ball. However, I'm afraid that horse has been out of the barn far too long. Maybe our current economic woes will snap some out of it. But the reality is, my boys would not have/be playing at the college level if their high school team had been their only exposure. Not a single college contact was made by their high school coach - not one. If it weren't for their travel teams and the Stevenson showcase, baseball would have ended for them in high school. (And I will give all credit to the high school coaches who make the Stevenson showcase a reality - without them it would not happen. That single weekend is extremely beneficial to players hoping to be seen by college coaches - it's the single best bargain in the world of high school baseball.)
Coach - I'm sure you are dedicated to your team year round. Unfortunately, there are coaches who are not and they are the ones who end up threatening their kids - "Play for me this summer or don't bother showing up in the spring". We heard it over and over. After years of playing a summer schedule on Mon - Thurs., our coach suddenly started scheduling Friday games to make it more difficult for players to also play for another team on the weekends. And he made no bones about it - he told the boys what he was doing and why. Not "gee guys, I'm really going to try to make this the best possible experience I can for you and I hope you'll all be with me in that goal." Not "I'm going to do everything I can to help anyone who has the desire to play college ball". Just "you belong to me during the summer - don't make me tell you twice". Oh, and if you're a pitcher on a tournament team, guess who's pitching on Friday for the hs team? Not a great team building experience. And, speaking only for my three, it was not even a slightly worthwhile baseball experience.
I agree with you though, that it would be great if hs summer teams were comprised of the same players who make up varsity teams - then you'd really have something. (You'll notice I lamented the same earlier in this thread.) I think it's absolutely ridiculous the amount of money that parents can end up spending on showcases and travel teams in the quest for the holy grail of college ball. However, I'm afraid that horse has been out of the barn far too long. Maybe our current economic woes will snap some out of it. But the reality is, my boys would not have/be playing at the college level if their high school team had been their only exposure. Not a single college contact was made by their high school coach - not one. If it weren't for their travel teams and the Stevenson showcase, baseball would have ended for them in high school. (And I will give all credit to the high school coaches who make the Stevenson showcase a reality - without them it would not happen. That single weekend is extremely beneficial to players hoping to be seen by college coaches - it's the single best bargain in the world of high school baseball.)
Coach - I'm sure you are dedicated to your team year round. Unfortunately, there are coaches who are not and they are the ones who end up threatening their kids - "Play for me this summer or don't bother showing up in the spring". We heard it over and over. After years of playing a summer schedule on Mon - Thurs., our coach suddenly started scheduling Friday games to make it more difficult for players to also play for another team on the weekends. And he made no bones about it - he told the boys what he was doing and why. Not "gee guys, I'm really going to try to make this the best possible experience I can for you and I hope you'll all be with me in that goal." Not "I'm going to do everything I can to help anyone who has the desire to play college ball". Just "you belong to me during the summer - don't make me tell you twice". Oh, and if you're a pitcher on a tournament team, guess who's pitching on Friday for the hs team? Not a great team building experience. And, speaking only for my three, it was not even a slightly worthwhile baseball experience.
Most players that are seeking to elevate their talent level know that it cannot be done here in illnois in the summer on their hs team . If you want to be considered among the best , you must play against the best ..thats what it is all about . We parents that shell out $$$ for our kids to travel around the country dont ( didnt ) do it to chase around a college scholarship , but rather for the chance to compete against the best from around the country . The college stuff all took care of itself . Yes, there are some parents who overdo it and go to too many showcases . As far as the Sparks are concerned , our players were seen many times at tournaments attended by many colleges on numerous occasions ....so no need to go to many showcases . The maine south guy should not knock something he doesnt fully comprehend . I would rather see my kid K a few times against pitchers throwing 90 + from fla, tex , ga , etc than hitting some bombs in a mid suburban league game . Its all about looking toward the future . The kids that dont get the opportunity to face really good quality pitching on a regular basis will have a very hard time learning to hit it down the line . Its not something that you just turn on when you need it ...it muat be acquired over a period of time .
quote:Originally posted by ballyall:
For the vast majority of players, hs summer ball is sufficient. By the way, did you ever stop to think that if parents didn't shell out the bucks for travel ball and merely stayed with hs summer ball, the competition would be tremendous.
I would agree that for the majority of players, hs summer ball is sufficient. However, when it comes to the level of competition, it will never come anywhere near "tremendous" status with or without travel ball. Let's be honest...summer ball is more along the lines of JV baseball simply because graduated seniors are excluded. I mean no disrespect to JV baseball but the more serious players must use the summer months to compete at the highest level possible...be it travel ball or Legion.
In my son's case, he has played both hs and Legion ball this summer for the specific purpose of each program and experience. Fortunately for him, his hs coach has been quite accomodating which is what it takes to make it work. My son is living proof that the two can co-exist for the benefit of all involved.
If all the kids left legion and travel, the kids that play hs summer ball would all be out of baseball. Is that a goal or an unintended consequence of your proposal ballyall?
Anyone know where you can find the schedule, or brackets for the play-offs???
bballdad
With a full slate of players competing for their hs teams, I guess there would be some lower level players who would opt out due to insufficient playing time. Well, baseball is a cut sport so they could continue their pursuits in a house league. HS baseball is competitive and I am just advocating for it to be improved and not have other teams water down the talent in many areas.
If a mom and dad want to spend their time and money watching junior play 2 innings for a travel team in Pigs Knuckle Arkansas (anyone get the movie reference?) then fine--can we reserve this for extended weekends. I simply would like to see hs summer ball be the main competitive league during the week.
With a full slate of players competing for their hs teams, I guess there would be some lower level players who would opt out due to insufficient playing time. Well, baseball is a cut sport so they could continue their pursuits in a house league. HS baseball is competitive and I am just advocating for it to be improved and not have other teams water down the talent in many areas.
If a mom and dad want to spend their time and money watching junior play 2 innings for a travel team in Pigs Knuckle Arkansas (anyone get the movie reference?) then fine--can we reserve this for extended weekends. I simply would like to see hs summer ball be the main competitive league during the week.
Maine South 2
Highland Park 12
Sorry to inform you that there will be no more daily posts that report Hawk scores.
Highland Park 12
Sorry to inform you that there will be no more daily posts that report Hawk scores.
Ballyall,
Is the summer season over?
Is the summer season over?
Naperville Central 5
Wheaton South 3
Brakets can be found on the Illinois high school baseball coaches web site, or at the Prep Baseball Report
Wheaton South 3
Brakets can be found on the Illinois high school baseball coaches web site, or at the Prep Baseball Report
quote:Most players that are seeking to elevate their talent level know that it cannot be done here in illnois in the summer on their hs team
Not even close to be true.
Sorry playball
From a hitting perspective , cant get better facing mediocre -at best -- pitching during hs summer season. The smart hs coaches will give their blessing to let their better players go and play against better competition outside this area and not hold them hostage here . They will be that much better come spring time . For the players that have the ability to compete at a higher level ....the hs summer season does not hold that much value .
From a hitting perspective , cant get better facing mediocre -at best -- pitching during hs summer season. The smart hs coaches will give their blessing to let their better players go and play against better competition outside this area and not hold them hostage here . They will be that much better come spring time . For the players that have the ability to compete at a higher level ....the hs summer season does not hold that much value .
From the summer tournament
Naperville Central 11
Hinsdale Central 7
Naperville scored 6 runs in the top of the 7th to stay alive. Next up for the Redhawks is Benet who beat Neuqua in an earlier game.
Naperville Central 11
Hinsdale Central 7
Naperville scored 6 runs in the top of the 7th to stay alive. Next up for the Redhawks is Benet who beat Neuqua in an earlier game.
quote:For the players that have the ability to compete at a higher level ....the hs summer season does not hold that much value .
Not even close to being true, again. Invalid and unsubstantiated. Have not seen this to be as significant as you are led to believe. Our area is rich enough in pitching, no need to leave the area or the state. Secondly, I don't believe the HS coach is the one holding the kids hostage.
quote:Originally posted by Playball2:quote:For the players that have the ability to compete at a higher level ....the hs summer season does not hold that much value .
Not even close to being true, again. Invalid and unsubstantiated. Have not seen this to be as significant as you are led to believe. Our area is rich enough in pitching, no need to leave the area or the state. Secondly, I don't believe the HS coach is the one holding the kids hostage.
Playball...with all due respect, what makes your opinion any more valid and substantiated than that of those who happen to disagree with you? As written, Mr. Nobody's assertion is more true than false based upon what I've witnessed this summer.
Further, my son has faced a whole number of D1-bound pitchers this summer along with some returning college freshmen...thanks to Legion baseball. I mean no disrespect to summer hs baseball nor its coaches, but there is no comparison between the two experiences...which I'm assuming was Mr. Nobody's point.
I had three boys playing all kinds of baseball this summer. Legion, travel and high school summer ball, two of them on more than one team. The weakest, in terms of competition, by far, was the high school summer season. There are several reasons for this... players coming and going, some trying out and being evaluated, some coaches perhaps seeking out weaker teams... These are just a few. But weakest, nonetheless.
And don't be fooled.. Coaches DO hold their kids hostage. My child gave up a significant travel opportunity because he was told he "had to be there, Monday through Thursday" and this was unacceptable to the travel coach. He then, BTW, watched other players selectively miss games to be with THEIR travel teams.
So he stayed home and played with his high school team, while his lost opportunity travel team went to Florida, Texas, Missouri, etc.
Gotta agree with Bravescoach and the others here. Better baseball is easier found elsewhere. Perhaps the discussion here should be whether high school summer ball should continue to exist in it's current form.
And don't be fooled.. Coaches DO hold their kids hostage. My child gave up a significant travel opportunity because he was told he "had to be there, Monday through Thursday" and this was unacceptable to the travel coach. He then, BTW, watched other players selectively miss games to be with THEIR travel teams.
So he stayed home and played with his high school team, while his lost opportunity travel team went to Florida, Texas, Missouri, etc.
Gotta agree with Bravescoach and the others here. Better baseball is easier found elsewhere. Perhaps the discussion here should be whether high school summer ball should continue to exist in it's current form.
quote:Originally posted by JKennedy:
Perhaps the discussion here should be whether high school summer ball should continue to exist in it's current form.
I'll start by suggesting that the summer playoffs be eliminated. That would take the inherent pressure off of the hs coaches to have their top players in attendance throughout the summer season. Absent an ultimate "championship", hs coaches could focus more on development which is what the summer season should be all about...regardless of wins and losses.
With that said, I do need to point out that our hs coach allowed my son and three other team mates to leave their hs regional game early today in order to attend a Cook County Legion tournament game. To his credit, he gets it.
quote:Playball...with all due respect, what makes your opinion any more valid and substantiated than that of those who happen to disagree with you? As written, Mr. Nobody's assertion is more true than false based upon what I've witnessed this summer.
I am not attempting to make my opinion any greater than others, however, I am in the player development realm. No disrespect but I am not watching it from the fence line. Secondly, each year our schedule has been loaded with facing D1 pitching arms and we have been successful as many times as we have failed. Reality good pitching beats good hitting. With the off-speed always being the equalizer, to which nobody hits at any level high school or travel. Again my viewpoint is objective, because I have tried this formula a number of different ways and I have found no significant difference. Take it for what is worth.
Bravescoach, there is no inherent pressure. This along with the term hostage has been repeated throught and from the HS coaches perspective it is neither nor. These terms are driven from outside the fence line.
Lastly, just because coaches allow or disallow their players to play at the travel ball circuit doesn't reflect whether they get it or not. Removing the competitive component is not the answer any more than I suggest that removing the travel programs involvement from the issue.
Our Athletic Director always dealt with parent inquiries and complaints by telling us that we are not professional coaches and we really can't understand all that goes in to professional coaching decisions. Now you have the "outside the fence line" like baseball coaches are rocket scientists or something. Give me a break.
Good coaches obviously have done some study that most parents haven't, and hopefully they have some extra specialized knowlege. BUT, rocket science it aint. Parents have played ball at different levels and have been coached and seen coaching and I have seen hundreds of basball games up close. I don't need a radar gun to see who is throwing 90 and who is in the mid 80's and who is high 70's. I know a good swing when I see it. I can tell if a fielder is taking a proper angle to the ball, and if they have a good arm or not. I also can tell where stronger or weaker competition is.
You can give your opinion all you want, and qualify it any way you want, but I don't want to hear that I don't know what I am talking about because I am "outside the fence".
Good coaches obviously have done some study that most parents haven't, and hopefully they have some extra specialized knowlege. BUT, rocket science it aint. Parents have played ball at different levels and have been coached and seen coaching and I have seen hundreds of basball games up close. I don't need a radar gun to see who is throwing 90 and who is in the mid 80's and who is high 70's. I know a good swing when I see it. I can tell if a fielder is taking a proper angle to the ball, and if they have a good arm or not. I also can tell where stronger or weaker competition is.
You can give your opinion all you want, and qualify it any way you want, but I don't want to hear that I don't know what I am talking about because I am "outside the fence".
Incidently, Coach Toledo of Niles North and Napoleon of New Trier coach summer Legion teams. Assitant coaches handle the hs summer team and the developing the less talented players. They do it so their better players can improve by playing better competition. Last I checked they are professional high school coaches that have pretty good track records.
And the pay is much better for those legion and travel ball teams as well. Altruism is a lovely idea but it doesnt make the most sense (cents)!!!!!!