I had never heard the phrase "candy classes" so I've learned something!  More power to any parent who wants to pay for a student to take such classes just to play more baseball.  I can't see the point, unless it was for the draft.  Are you telling me that in the cases where 8 seniors want to come back, that they all think they might get drafted?  I wonder how likely that is?

Hits buzzer “History of Rock and Roll for $200, Alex!”.

Citing for this site, it was a tad closer in time to Pearl Harbor than this posting. 

I understand the seemingly dumb goal of paying to go to college simply to have a Senior Season.  We have all seen Seniors get injured or lose a position battle so there is risk of things not working out at a significant cost.  

Unfortunately I know of a couple of 2016 HS Grads that have traveled strange journeys:

One-Went to a top rated DI JUCO.  Red Shirted his Freshman year.  Pitched thirteen innings his next year.  Transferred to a low DI college in the lower RBI rankings.  Ticked off a coach an pitched one inning as a Sophomore.  Technically has two years of eligibility and is still looking to play but track record probably scares coaches off.  Player throws 92ish but has zero command.  The parent is willing to foot the bill.

Two-went to a DIII JUCO.  Freshman year got hurt and red shirted.  Second year played well but the school was a weak school and the coach probably had little track record of getting players connected.  He was going to a DII JUCO and playing well.  The school has a track record of moving players to DI's so he may have gotten some good looks if the season had continued.  He is a hitter first position second player that probably can hit at DI but may be troubled to find a position.  JUCO cost are low but clearly the motives are to play baseball.  His father had no clue how the recruiting process worked in High School and Travel ball.  Then they jumped at the first JUCO with no understanding of the competitive levels or  how tough it is to get recruited out of a JUCO.  I encouraged him to play in the local Summer College Summer league for exposure and he had no idea it existed.  Just a real bad approach being recruited.  

From what I've seen of my son's former coaches they had successful Red Shirt Seniors that graduated and moved on rather than delay graduation or attend as Grad students.  My guess is if the coaches feel they recruited strongly they will move most Seniors out to clear a path for younger players.  The Seniors will have the opportunity to find other schools that have positional needs based on their track record.  I'm sure it will be hectic for all involved but it is not that much different than being recruited out of High School except the player has a validated track record.  I guess there could be challenges with applying to Grad Schools but I'm sure schools are going to bend a little if they have slots for students.  I feel bad for the players but nothing is guaranteed.  At least they have the opportunity to work a solution .

 

I get it but if the program didn’t recruit someone in junior or higher class that can throw above 92 with command, by that age, to give that spot to a corona senior or some transfer shame on them. My 17 year old can throw better than that and has sick command as do most of his team mates on summer ball. Plenty of young kids to come in and compete for that spot and they’ll win.

Tough conversations need to be had. Reality must be checked. 

I think the current situation just makes them all happen sooner. Or should.....

Last edited by Eokerholm

I think its constructive to focus on what percentage of seniors who will want to come back.   I found it interesting that an Ivy League senior with a job in the fall wants to come back (article posted in this thread) although ivy rules do not allow him to.  is that the norm?  I suspect the higher level of baseball the higher percentage.  are we talking 50% or higher?  curious of people's opinion and anecdotes.  the bigger issue id suspect are the juniors that will not be drafted adding to the log jam.  

Based on the article posted yesterday with quotes from coaches, all 8 of the seniors from the school my son has committed to are returning.  I think in most cases, the logical solution is probably to enter the workforce, but the emotional solution will have most wanting to return...especially if the season was going well when it was cut short.

GloFisher posted:

I think its constructive to focus on what percentage of seniors who will want to come back.   I found it interesting that an Ivy League senior with a job in the fall wants to come back (article posted in this thread) although ivy rules do not allow him to.  is that the norm?  I suspect the higher level of baseball the higher percentage.  are we talking 50% or higher?  curious of people's opinion and anecdotes.  the bigger issue id suspect are the juniors that will not be drafted adding to the log jam.  

I'd be willing to bet that senior knows it won't happen but if it did he would have to seriously think about it. But that really means he would have to seriously think about pursuing a graduate degree. So by not taking the job he would be have to make the decision to delay entering the workforce for two years so that he can get his masters degree. Oh, and while he's doing that why not play one more season of college baseball?

But he knows this will not happen as the Ivy League would have to open up athletics to ALL graduate students. Not going to happen.

The point is not that some student-athletes might earn an additional degree or qualification through an extra year of playing; that would serve a purpose, especially in an economy in which there may be no jobs for a while anyway.  The question was about parents who might pay for a student to take candy classes (which seem to be defined as "having no educational value" - although I'm not sure about that) just so he could play baseball.  But again, I guess if there are no jobs, doing that might be better than having the guy sitting in the basement playing video games.

Eokerholm posted:

I get it but if the program didn’t recruit someone in junior or higher class that can throw above 92 with command, by that age, to give that spot to a corona senior or some transfer shame on them. My 17 year old can throw better than that and has sick command as do most of his team mates on summer ball. Plenty of young kids to come in and compete for that spot and they’ll win.

Tough conversations need to be had. Reality must be checked. 

I think the current situation just makes them all happen sooner. Or should.....

With all due respect, I have never seen a 17 year old with sick command. Much less more than one on the same team. And I have played and coached at the college level. Been around baseball for half a century. Just saying, I know your son is an elite pitcher but c’mon man! 

They definitely exist. Not many but they do. Jupiter and Ft Meyers WWBA championships were littered with them. I can name 6. East Cobb Astros is stacked across multiple age teams as do a lot of the other national programs, Canes, Academy Select, Arsenal, Team Elite, etc. 

I think you missed my point.

If you recruit a kid that throws 88 and he isn’t throwing 92+ with better command after 2-3 years you didn’t recruit and didn’t coach well. He came to you throwing 88. With better coaching and mechanics, nutrition and strength and pitching coach you should expect and see improvement.

If not, my son, and others, like him will come in, compete, and earn those spots from those guys. 

If you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse. Should always be improving - in baseball or in life. 

not being an A$$ or trying to

 

Last edited by Eokerholm
Eokerholm posted:

They definitely exist. Not many but they do. I can name 6. East Cobb Astros is stacked across multiple age teams as do a lot of the other national programs, Canes, Academy Select, Arsenal, Team Elite, etc. 

I think you missed my point.

If you recruit a kid that throws 88 and he isn’t throwing 92+ with better command after 2-3 years you didn’t recruit and didn’t coach well. He came to you throwing 88. With better coaching and mechanics, nutrition and strength and pitching coach you should expect and see improvement.

If not, my son, and others, like him will come in, compete, and earn those spots from those guys. 

If you aren’t getting better, you’re getting worse. Should always be improving - in baseball or in life. 

not being an A$$ or trying to

 

I’m a pitching coach. I know how it works. I know what gets kids recruited and what projects and what doesn’t. I help place the pitchers I work with in college programs. I pitched at a top 20 D1 program with 3 guys that had big league careers. I have also coached over 20 seasons of travel ball including national tournaments in Atlanta and Jupiter. I have seen a lot pitchers and some 17 year olds command the baseball pretty well. But never in all my experience have a run across a 17 year old with “sick” command. I have seen many more with “suck” command. So I stand by my comment. You sure that wasn’t a typo? 

Eokerholm posted:

They definitely exist. Not many but they do. Jupiter and Ft Meyers WWBA championships were littered with them. I can name 6. East Cobb Astros is stacked across multiple age teams as do a lot of the other national programs, Canes, Academy Select, Arsenal, Team Elite, etc. 

I think you missed my point.

If you recruit a kid that throws 88 and he isn’t throwing 92+ with better command after 2-3 years you didn’t recruit and didn’t coach well. He came to you throwing 88. With better coaching and mechanics, nutrition and strength and pitching coach you should expect and see improvement. 

Agree with the part about high school command. 

Disagree with the part about a velo jump equating to success. If you were recruited as an 88 guy and remain 88 for the rest of your college career but get outs that's not a bad job recruiting or coaching. Not every player needs to develop into a draft prospect for them to be successful. If everybody threw 92+ with command nobody would be able to hit the ball. Velo ≠ getting better, it just means throwing harder. 

Our Friday guy was 92 in high school. He is often 88 and a few times a game will bust one off at 92/93. He will be 88 the first pitch of the game and 88 his last pitch of the game in the 8th. He has great command and is still expected to be drafted in the 4th/5th this year. Just because a staff doesn't improve velo does not mean they didn't recruit or coach well. 

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

Agree, Yes, command can be an improvement and not velo. 

Jesus H y'all. Nit picky today.

Y'all have a nice weekend.  

Since  I started this thread it has (de)-volved into a who's is bigger.

I have had to learn how to turn off alerts!

Out here.

Rangers Lead the Way!

I will take you up on the beer! 

Of course kids should improve when they go to college. And most do, but it doesn’t always go the way HS players and parents think it will. I help coach a pro kid that went to a well known national program. He went backwards during his 4 years there due to LACK of coaching. In the college game I see lots of emphasis on conditioning and developing mental toughness of pitchers. Not near enough teaching about how to improve/correct the throwing mechanics. I have my own opinions as to why but the reality is that kids are too often left to figure it out on their own if they develop a bad habit - and pitchers fall into that just like hitters do. It’s part of the game. There is so much talent on the pitching staffs of top 25 programs that if one kid doesn’t produce its next man up.  HS players and parents assume they will get good coaching as they move up to the next level. But it’s not a given. Better do your homework. 

We can agree that we all have too much free time on our hands. 

Totally agree.

You're on. Happy to buy you a beer!

A lot HS parents, myself included, are/were clueless before doing massive research and asking around.


This site is a tremendous resource of people with incredible insights and experience to tap into. I wished I would have known about this site a year ago and that would have saved me a ton of time and research. 

Luckily for my son and my family we researched the heck out of programs, schools, coaches, rosters, etc when he was being recruited. There are a TON of moving parts and parts people don't know about or consider. 

I appreciate the viewpoints and inputs here and brag on this site to others when I talk to them and share our story and what my son and I did when he was researching schools and figuring out where he wanted to go in order to hopefully save them some time, head aches and money associated with recruiting, travel ball, showcases, NCAA calendars, etc. 

adbono posted:
Eokerholm posted:

I get it but if the program didn’t recruit someone in junior or higher class that can throw above 92 with command, by that age, to give that spot to a corona senior or some transfer shame on them. My 17 year old can throw better than that and has sick command as do most of his team mates on summer ball. Plenty of young kids to come in and compete for that spot and they’ll win.

Tough conversations need to be had. Reality must be checked. 

I think the current situation just makes them all happen sooner. Or should.....

With all due respect, I have never seen a 17 year old with sick command. Much less more than one on the same team. And I have played and coached at the college level. Been around baseball for half a century. Just saying, I know your son is an elite pitcher but c’mon man! 

I have no doubt your son at this age, level, and team is one of the better players currently.  However,depending on where he goes for the next level it is difficult to predict how well a college freshman will perform (assuming not a 1st/2nd rounder).  I've seen highly recruited, touted, accolade packed prospects arrive freshman year and for whatever reason they couldn't perform at D1 level.  Every P5 and high/mid D1 programs have players from all over the country, all equally great during their high school careers, and yet only 12-14 will see any meaningful playing time.  If your kid is that good, I would say bring it on, he will beat out any player is his position freshman - Rsr.  I would feel a little sorry for those Corona Sr's who my son takes their position away from them (j/k).   JMO

Last edited by TheMaskedPlayer

https://www.americanpress.com/...e2-d601b74b4937.html

What I think is going to happen is that scholly's will be expanded for 1 year to accomodate the influsx of 2020s and existing schollys, but roster limits for returning Juniors down to Freshman will still be limited to 35 to maintain as much fairness as possible (many D1's aren't fully funded now.)

Then, this summer they are going to pass the pending 1 time transfer rule for those in good academic standing without hesitation.  Existing walk-ons, incoming preferred walk-ons, and anyone committed 2021 and after, I would be prepared for the wild, wild west.

Eokerholm posted:

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

I have a sneaky feeling your dose is about to arrive in the coming months!!

DesertDuck posted:
Eokerholm posted:

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

I have a sneaky feeling your dose is about to arrive in the coming months!!

Why be cryptic, if you have something to say man up and speak your mind.  Drive by snarky comments are weak.  

22and25 posted:
DesertDuck posted:
Eokerholm posted:

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

I have a sneaky feeling your dose is about to arrive in the coming months!!

Why be cryptic, if you have something to say man up and speak your mind.  Drive by snarky comments are weak.  

He is a Duck. It was a fly by. 

22and25 posted:
DesertDuck posted:
Eokerholm posted:

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

I have a sneaky feeling your dose is about to arrive in the coming months!!

Why be cryptic, if you have something to say man up and speak your mind.  Drive by snarky comments are weak.  

You seem to fall right into his too sensitive/defensive description above. I did speak my mind and just b/c you find my post 'cryptic' doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't find it glaringly obvious. I have read only a few posts of his and can tell in a matter of seconds that his sense of reality is quite a bit different then the actual reality of college baseball. I'll save myself the time of checking out a few of your posts b/c I can already tell what you're all about. Let me guess, your 2022 already has 'sick command' and is going to take the roster spot of seasoned college pitchers when he's show up on campus? Or is it your 2025 that's blowing away 13u or 14u stud power bats already with his heater and sick command? Whatever it is......good luck to you as well.

DesertDuck posted:
22and25 posted:
DesertDuck posted:
Eokerholm posted:

Nice. OK, we can just agree to disagree on the definition and nuance of "sick command" and the existence of those with it.  Not losing sleep over it. Your lens can be different from mine and that's OK. 

Are you saying when you guys go to college they don't or shouldn't get better? I wouldn't send one of my players or sons to a place where they wouldn't improve. Which, again, was my point - but go ahead and focus on "sick"..

This corona crap needs to end, baseball needs to come back.  Everyone has way too much free time, opinions on right/wrong, cake classes or not, and just overall too sensitive/defensive.

Reality is harsh, not always pretty and life will happen. 

Some day this will all be back to a "new" normal and happy to buy you a beer.

Moving on.

 

 

 

I have a sneaky feeling your dose is about to arrive in the coming months!!

Why be cryptic, if you have something to say man up and speak your mind.  Drive by snarky comments are weak.  

You seem to fall right into his too sensitive/defensive description above. I did speak my mind and just b/c you find my post 'cryptic' doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't find it glaringly obvious. I have read only a few posts of his and can tell in a matter of seconds that his sense of reality is quite a bit different then the actual reality of college baseball. I'll save myself the time of checking out a few of your posts b/c I can already tell what you're all about. Let me guess, your 2022 already has 'sick command' and is going to take the roster spot of seasoned college pitchers when he's show up on campus? Or is it your 2025 that's blowing away 13u or 14u stud power bats already with his heater and sick command? Whatever it is......good luck to you as well.

I think, if you had checked my post, you would find that I am very reasonable about both of my son's abilities and expectations.  I will save you the trouble of checking, I have posted exactly zero times about my 2025 because he is 13 and anything he does at that age means exactly nothing.  Any post about my 2022 have been seeking information on how to approach the recruiting process or how to help him get better to become recruitable.  

See what happens when you make assumptions?  It's much better to speak plainly and avoid them all together, no?

I mean, based on the few post I have seen from you, someone would probably assume you are the raging douchebag you appear to be but surely that's not the case, right?

So clearly there are going to be waaay too many players next year and a surplus the three years after that. 2020’s that haven’t signed a NLI will struggle to find any location.  Those that have may have a bumpy ride as well. At what point do we see the correction with 2021s? I’m sure coaches are struggling to wrap their minds around this and maybe haven’t  come up with a game plan. As the mom of a 2022, I’m extremely interested to see how many 2021s actually convert their verbals to NLI’s.  And what these new recruiting classes look like. For now I’ve got lefty working his butt off, for fear the herd will be thinned excessively.    We’ve stopped trying to figure out what level school will be a good match and will wait for some of the dust to settle.  I’m glad he isn’t a 2021 and REALLY glad he’s not a 2020.  My condolences if you have one. 

This has been an interesting thread with a lot of good thoughts and a lot of guessing and uncertainty, one point I haven't seen raised as it relates to players being drafted and moving on from programs is the issue that MLB was considering decimating it's minor league platform and eliminate many teams (and spots for graduating seniors). Is MLB still considering this and if so, what affect does that have on the topic at hand about college roster spots?

Lack of money during this shutdown may decimate some.  The MLB is kinda getting what they wanted without getting their hands dirty.  I think the draft is forever smaller, not 5 rounds, but likely 20. All anyone can do is be the best player they can be. Up your game.  And then be ready for change.  I just saw a local kid decommit yesterday. He is a 2020 so guessing he was a walk on since he should have signed at this point. A lot of life lessons going around that no one really wanted to learn.

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