[QUOTE]Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,
"Those are almost exactly the numbers I have from the MLBPA - and the %'s decreases I cited are correct. I'm confused by your post."
Guess I'm getting old quicker than I thought. I misunderstood what you were referring to. You're right the % of increase has decreased. However, the numbers still ain't bad. the real problem is with median salary. that had declined steadily with the bigger $$$ the star players are getting but that's who sells the tickets.
Voodoo;
Interesting topic. Just a couple of questions for you - I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent. He was asking approx. $9 mill in arbitration, Jays offering 6. They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap, and with Delgado's salary gone next year these numbers fit for the team - I assume that's why there is no signing bonus here either. I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks', I assume Landry works for them? Wouldn't they have looked over the numbers?
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Interesting topic. Just a couple of questions for you - I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent. He was asking approx. $9 mill in arbitration, Jays offering 6. They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap, and with Delgado's salary gone next year these numbers fit for the team - I assume that's why there is no signing bonus here either. I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks', I assume Landry works for them? Wouldn't they have looked over the numbers?
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
Voodoo;
"I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent."
True he would have been a Free Agent after the '05 season.
"They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap"
Right I understand the backloading aspect. However my point was that he should have gotten $$$ in a Signing Bonus even if he spread it out or backloaded the Signing Bonus.
"with Delgado's salary gone next year"
Wouldn't bet the farm on that. First of all he likes it in Toronto & would rather stay there if they show any commitment to fielding a championship caliber team, Second they are saying they'd like to keep him, Third how do they push out the door their All-Time leader in EVERY meaningful offensive category for nothing in return? They might increase their payroll $4 - $6 million & pay Delgado what he's worth or dump Hinske's contract so they can keep Carlos & stay under their budget.
"I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks'"
He was with Randy & Alan until they left SFX & went back on their own. For whatever reason, he chose Landry & SFX over the Hendricks'. He'll be paying for that mistake for the next 4 years.
Voodoo;
"I believe Halladay had 2 years left before he was a free agent."
True he would have been a Free Agent after the '05 season.
"They backloaded it because the Jays are under a self-imposed salary cap"
Right I understand the backloading aspect. However my point was that he should have gotten $$$ in a Signing Bonus even if he spread it out or backloaded the Signing Bonus.
"with Delgado's salary gone next year"
Wouldn't bet the farm on that. First of all he likes it in Toronto & would rather stay there if they show any commitment to fielding a championship caliber team, Second they are saying they'd like to keep him, Third how do they push out the door their All-Time leader in EVERY meaningful offensive category for nothing in return? They might increase their payroll $4 - $6 million & pay Delgado what he's worth or dump Hinske's contract so they can keep Carlos & stay under their budget.
"I thought Halladay was represented by the Hendricks'"
He was with Randy & Alan until they left SFX & went back on their own. For whatever reason, he chose Landry & SFX over the Hendricks'. He'll be paying for that mistake for the next 4 years.
CANADIANLEFTY:
Here's an interesting article re
elgado staying with the J's
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040124/col_elliott-sun.html
Here's an interesting article re
elgado staying with the J'shttp://slam.canoe.ca/Slam040124/col_elliott-sun.html
Voodoo
It depends on who you listen to.
The sentiment appears to be 50/50 with regard to
whether he will stay or go...
The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?
I have personally heard both scenario's suggested.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
It depends on who you listen to.
The sentiment appears to be 50/50 with regard to
whether he will stay or go...
The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?
I have personally heard both scenario's suggested.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
Voodoo;
Thanks for the info. I think his contract isn't too bad if you look at the fact he doesn't have to go through arbitration this year or next, and he's being paid what he's worth for '06 and '07. However, I understand your point about the signing bonus, especially tax-wise - just makes no sense not to have it.
As far as Delgado, I was referring to his current deal being off the books, which is way out of whack for these times-so maybe they can re-sign him for $10 million or so next year, and stay in their "budget". Or maybe Ted Rogers will spend some of his $, instead of crying poor. Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Thanks for the info. I think his contract isn't too bad if you look at the fact he doesn't have to go through arbitration this year or next, and he's being paid what he's worth for '06 and '07. However, I understand your point about the signing bonus, especially tax-wise - just makes no sense not to have it.
As far as Delgado, I was referring to his current deal being off the books, which is way out of whack for these times-so maybe they can re-sign him for $10 million or so next year, and stay in their "budget". Or maybe Ted Rogers will spend some of his $, instead of crying poor. Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
Voodoo,
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
Voodoo
"The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?"
Commitment from ownership? Check the standings from last June. At that point the J's had a better record than the Marlins & their owner spent NADA to improve that team, in fact they dumped Shannon Stewart's salary for next to nothing just to field a cheaper team, not a better team.
The Marlins on the other hand picked up Helling, Conine & Urbina. That's the commitment I'm talking about.
Voodoo
"The committment to fielding a championship team was apparent with this season's splits with Boston and New York, wasn't it?"
Commitment from ownership? Check the standings from last June. At that point the J's had a better record than the Marlins & their owner spent NADA to improve that team, in fact they dumped Shannon Stewart's salary for next to nothing just to field a cheaper team, not a better team.
The Marlins on the other hand picked up Helling, Conine & Urbina. That's the commitment I'm talking about.
"Delgado isn't as well-respected by fans here as some former Jays, despite his numbers, most likely because they have been a poor to average team the last 10 years."
Poor choice by J's fans. He's a much better player than anyone they've had befor. The numbers don't lie. If anything he should be credited for doing so well on poor teams as well as taking less money to stay in Toronto in 2000 than he would have gotten as a Free Agent.
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
Poor choice by J's fans. He's a much better player than anyone they've had befor. The numbers don't lie. If anything he should be credited for doing so well on poor teams as well as taking less money to stay in Toronto in 2000 than he would have gotten as a Free Agent.
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
Voodoo,
Re: Your point about median decrease.
Do you see a realistic potential for a widening of the "haves and have-nots" mentality in the compensation game for individual players over the next few years?
I think it's almost unavoidable.
VooDoo
Please bear with me:
I am trying to understand the difference in club philosophy...
Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman
The Jays need pitching to go along with their 2nd highest team BA.....They picked up Lilly, Hentgen and Batista.
Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great.
If not...doesn't the team suffer a competitive disadvantage...reducing the long-term flexibility of acquiring "right-now" needs?
How long do you extend him?
Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?
He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?
Do you pay him top dollar to DH?
Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?
Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?
If you can shed some light.....
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
Please bear with me:
I am trying to understand the difference in club philosophy...
Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman
The Jays need pitching to go along with their 2nd highest team BA.....They picked up Lilly, Hentgen and Batista.
Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great.
If not...doesn't the team suffer a competitive disadvantage...reducing the long-term flexibility of acquiring "right-now" needs?
How long do you extend him?
Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?
He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?
Do you pay him top dollar to DH?
Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?
Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?
If you can shed some light.....
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
VooDoo
"Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman"
Agreed. However there was that whole World Series thing.
"Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great."
Based on his recent production & most important, his character & work ethic, I see no reason to expect a precipitous decline in performance.
"How long do you extend him?"
3-5 years IMO.
"Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?"
Honestly, I think they're just trying to field the cheapest 3rd place team they can until their prospects develop... IF they develop.
"He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?"
I doubt it. Why should he? He's produced at the top level of MLB, shouldn't he deserve to be paid the same way?
"Do you pay him top dollar to DH?"
Don't agree that he'll just DH. He'll continue to be adequate @ 1B. Would you rather have JT Snow's defense & his 51 RBI's?
"Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?"
Can't compare the two players. Hinske has only had 1 good year. J's are better off with Delgado & dumping Hinske if they're too cheap to increase the budget.
"Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?"
Rules are made to be broken. If 27 was the end, how do you account for Bonds? Clemens? etc.
VooDoo
"Two teams with limited payroll.
The Marlins went out and got who you mentioned and now they are without:
Pudge
Lee
Redman"
Agreed. However there was that whole World Series thing.
"Delgado is 31 and has trouble with his knees
<darn astroturf>
If he can perform at his current production rate throughout a new contract term - great."
Based on his recent production & most important, his character & work ethic, I see no reason to expect a precipitous decline in performance.
"How long do you extend him?"
3-5 years IMO.
"Are the Jays trying to get away from spending a huge % of total payroll on a few players?"
Honestly, I think they're just trying to field the cheapest 3rd place team they can until their prospects develop... IF they develop.
"He has a no-trade clause...Does that mean he would be wiling to take a hit to stay?"
I doubt it. Why should he? He's produced at the top level of MLB, shouldn't he deserve to be paid the same way?
"Do you pay him top dollar to DH?"
Don't agree that he'll just DH. He'll continue to be adequate @ 1B. Would you rather have JT Snow's defense & his 51 RBI's?
"Are the suggestions of Hinske being introduced to 1st troubling for Delgado?"
Can't compare the two players. Hinske has only had 1 good year. J's are better off with Delgado & dumping Hinske if they're too cheap to increase the budget.
"Since the Jays evaluate players based on the 27 yr age being a measuring tool...how does that help/hurt him?"
Rules are made to be broken. If 27 was the end, how do you account for Bonds? Clemens? etc.
quote:
Originally posted by voodoochile:
The chances of him staying for $10 million are as good as you being elected Miss Ontario.
lol... thanks alot!
What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll.
"Give 'im the stinky cheese"
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CANADIANLEFTY:
"What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll."
Considering Guerrero got 5 years @ $14 million/year & Delgado has better numbers, doesn't have an uninsureable bad back, is a better presence in the community etc. my guess is he'll be able to get 3-4 years @ what he's currently making $18.5 million.
"What do you think he would get for 3-4 years in today's market? Right now he's being paid approx 1/3 of the payroll."
Considering Guerrero got 5 years @ $14 million/year & Delgado has better numbers, doesn't have an uninsureable bad back, is a better presence in the community etc. my guess is he'll be able to get 3-4 years @ what he's currently making $18.5 million.
I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, especially
from the Jays. He has said before
he has the money and now it's time to win.
We will have to wait and see.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
that kind of money, especially
from the Jays. He has said before
he has the money and now it's time to win.
We will have to wait and see.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chill:
"I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, expecially
from the Jays."
Nobody thought he'd get what his present deal pays him either. Hope you land softly.
"I would be floored if he gets
that kind of money, expecially
from the Jays."
Nobody thought he'd get what his present deal pays him either. Hope you land softly.
VooDoo
I am light on my feet
or as my husband says: "light in the loafers"
Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
I am light on my feet
or as my husband says: "light in the loafers"
Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
quote:
Originally posted by Chill:
VooDoo
"Who was the GM who made that last deal with
Carlos?"
Gord Ash(currently Asst. G.M. in Milwaukee) was the GM @ the time.
______________________________
By the time you learn how to play the game...
You can't play it anymore ~ Frank Howard
voOdoo,
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by MrOctober:
voOdoo,
Do you know where I can find the signing bonuses for rounds 10-20 from years past? I've found 1-10, but am missing those. Any help would be appreciated.
Only source I can think of is Baseball America. I believe they've published a draft almanac which may have the info you're looking for.
