Is high school ball losing it's relevance for playing college ball?

IMHO, I feel HS ball is still very revelant. Most college coaches will ask you where you go to HS before they ask, if they ever do, about a travel team. There are good HS coaches and some that are not so dedicated and qualified, but I feel HS ball is a big part of the baseball equation.

You stated "They don't want the high school coach teaching them bad habits. Most hockey players are playing Junior A before playing college hockey. With AAU many basketball players are on the charts (ex: Hoop Scoop) before they hit high school." I have followed HS basketball and recruiting for 30 years and right now one of the big problems with many prep phenoms is a lack of fundamentals. Most of the recruiting gurus attribute this to spending so much time on travel teams with them just playing games and not putting in the hours daily in practice (I know some travel teams practice and some don't but most of the nationally ranked travel basketball teams assemble only to play games). I believe that in baseball you have to practice hard and regularly to get better and still one of the best places is in HS, particularly if they have a dedicated coach with a Fall workout program as well as Spring.

you are correct that the hs coach is no longer "the only game in town" regarding exposure/assistance to the next level, but incorrect beyond that

even tho summer baseball & showcases do offer great exposure opportunities, your premise that hs sports are irrelevant is incorrect.

it's also absurd that a travel coach would suggest his players not play for their hs team -
you should suggest a thorough mental exam - that guy could be unstable

AND your hs guidance staff works with summer coaches?? seems straaange, wanna elaborate??

This has been an on going discussion on the hSBBW. I don't know much about other sports. In some areas, to my knowledge, HS baseball players are no longer on HS teams but on high profile travel teams.

IMO, HS sports are extra curricular activities. And yes a great way to learn to balance the things needed to succeed in college (getting good grades to be able to play).This, IMO, is an important part of the community. There are some HS programs in the country that play an integral part of helping players secure college scholarships but that is based upon the coaches, not all coaches will take the time to do that for their players. For some sports (take football) you need to be part of that team to be recognized to play in college. BTW, I know of some players who could not make GPA requirements for HS so they played on outside teams, for pro exposure, improved grades to meet JUCO requirements.

The confusion arises when parents and players will depend solely upon that experience. Often times you will hear a parent say that no college coach came to watch their son play so there were no opportunities. Not one coach ever came to watch son play in HS, but as far as the draft process everyone was out to watch. With the demands of today's top college coaches, limited resources for smaller schools, they may have time to go watch local players but not one who they are interested in 3 states away. Sometimes they will send a scout to watch, but you first have to get noticed for someone to come watch.

Baseball showcases, successful tournaments, college camps, MLB tryouts that bring together a large number of coaches/scouts in one place has proven to be much more successful in the college process than waiting for a coach to come watch one player in HS or waiting for your HS coach to assist in the process.

But this is just my opinion, I know of some schools in our area that can produce a number of top prospects on a yearly basis, I am sure that they do draw college coaches.

Michael's Dad,
Lot depends on geographical area, but I will bet coaches ask you where you play just to know if you would be eligible. If you asked someone what HS team they played for and they said none, wouldn't you want to find out why?

The landscape has changed in just the 12 years since my last guy came out of HS

College Coaches do not have the $$$ to travel around to see one player at a time in hopes that he is the "one"---this is why travel teams and tournaments are vital for exposure---a multitude of players in one location for coaches to see in action in game time action---

And then add in the factor that the competition in the tournaments is at a much higher level than the high school game--almost every team in a tournament of travel teams is an ALL STAR caliber player

Showcases identify potential players for coaches and then they can follow them in tournaments--- we have a tournament this weekend on LI and once my cell phone goes on this afternoon as we travel there coaches will be calling asking "Who is pitching when?", "Is so and so with you this weekend?"

It is a different scene today

I agree that high school by itself is a poor recruiting tool in many circumstances - especially up here in the north when a player has a desire to play in the south.

IMHO, it is relevant to learning how to be a better ball player in that it teaches them how to perform under pressure.

Many kids never really experience pressure until they go to high school and have to beat some other kid out for playing time. Our high school funnelled in three or four well-known travel teams. Freshman team tryouts were from over 100 kids and the respective travel teams. There was pressure to make that team and pressure to get on to the field and stay there. Similarly, high school playoffs are one and done in our state. That carries the pressure of win or see your high school career end along with the expectations of the community. Obviously, there are pressures in the travel team experience as well but I don't believe high school ball should be discounted.

HS Sports is fun and exciting, you represent your school, its colors, and pride.

The athlete gets to compete, be a member of a team, learn valuable lessons along the way, form bonds and frienships and share in some great memories for years to come.

Those are plenty of reasons for making it relevant.

Asking it to be a springboard to bigger and better things is asking for the MOON.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:
AND your hs guidance staff works with summer coaches?? seems straaange, wanna elaborate??

I was informed my response was not relevant to baseball. Therefore neither are your questions. Sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael'sDad:

I have followed HS basketball and recruiting for 30 years and right now one of the big problems with many prep phenoms is a lack of fundamentals. Most of the recruiting gurus attribute this to spending so much time on travel teams with them just playing games and not putting in the hours daily in practice (I know some travel teams practice and some don't but most of the nationally ranked travel basketball teams assemble only to play games).

I don't disagree with you. I've had this conversation with an NBA scout. I've had the conversation with a former NBA player, yet his son played AAU. The same with a former NBA head coach, whose son also played AAU. But, for better or worse it's the avenue basketball players are using to get to college ball (or straight to the pros before the new rules).

Bringing the conversation back to baseball, my son played 14U travel and middle school ball last year. My view of middle school ball was it was slow and boring compared to travel, but it did get my son on the field playing or praticing every day. It also got him on the varsity coach's radar screen because he could cross the street to see him play.

quote:

Originally posted by OLDSLUGGER8:
HS Sports is fun and exciting, you represent your school, its colors, and pride.

The athlete gets to compete, be a member of a team, learn valuable lessons along the way, form bonds and frienships and share in some great memories for years to come.

Those are plenty of reasons for making it relevant.

Asking it to be a springboard to bigger and better things is asking for the MOON.

I totally agree here. HS may not be the best place to be recruited, But representing your HS on the baseball field is special. For the first time in my son's life he got to play in front of a few hundred fans in a some big games. He loved it!

IMO, regardless of the school, the competitiveness of the team, and the qualifications of the coach (unless he's REALLY bad), the more grounders a player can take, the more opportunities he has to work on his footwork, swings in the cage, all those everyday practices, plus game experience, can only help him. My son's 14U practices were run better than HS practices (and they could probably beat his JV team), but practices were only once or twice a week. Same for this 16U fall team. But the time spent on the field getting those reps with the HS team is still valuable.

And all that stuff OLDSLUGGER said.

To me, yes, it's definitely relevant.

I am pretty sure things must be different out here.
There are no shortage of traveling teams and showcasing, however high school baseball is still very important. Of our nine '07s 2 scholarshiped to D1, 1 D3, 1 did not pursue baseball,the rest continue to play at JC and will probably all end up at a 4 year with good programs. the D3 guy is the only one who ever showcased. High school coach was not bad. But these guys all came through strong LL, played jr. legion and sr. legion together, did some tournaments, etc. All of the letters my son received went straight to the high school. Almost all of theses guys were 2 or 3 sport guys at D-1 size high school - did not really have the time to travel all over showcasing because they were busy with other sports. If you were to forgoe playing hs baseball around here, that would be a big mistake.
I have stated before, that if college/pro scouts are depending so heavily on showcasing for their talent, they are leaving a lot of good talent behind, shame on them.

quote:

Originally posted by TG:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael'sDad:

I have followed HS basketball and recruiting for 30 years and right now one of the big problems with many prep phenoms is a lack of fundamentals. Most of the recruiting gurus attribute this to spending so much time on travel teams with them just playing games and not putting in the hours daily in practice (I know some travel teams practice and some don't but most of the nationally ranked travel basketball teams assemble only to play games).

I don't disagree with you. I've had this conversation with an NBA scout. I've had the conversation with a former NBA player, yet his son played AAU. The same with a former NBA head coach, whose son also played AAU. But, for better or worse it's the avenue basketball players are using to get to college ball (or straight to the pros before the new rules).

Bringing the conversation back to baseball, my son played 14U travel and middle school ball last year. My view of middle school ball was it was slow and boring compared to travel, but it did get my son on the field playing or praticing every day. It also got him on the varsity coach's radar screen because he could cross the street to see him play.

TG;
I certainly don't have anything against travel teams and showcases. I feel most ball players should participate in them to the degree they feel comfortable. My own son played travel from age 13 up. Travel ball and showcases are generally an important part of the process as is, I feel, HS ball. The ball player should just not forget what it takes to get better, practice and hard work.

In this area, it's been some years since hs ball had any direct relevance to playing college ball --- primarily for the usual reason; the seasons are played at the same time. However, there are many other good reasons to play for your school.

Should a player choose not to play hs ball, he should probably find a way to make his reasons clear to college coaches. And the reasons need to be legitimate and make sense. Remember that the college is also asking you to 'play for your school' and combine academics with team responsibilites. And any degree of 'the hs coach is a moron' may well be interpreted as baggage.

Excellent point Orlando. When I am interviewing potential employees and they bad mouth a previous employer, interview is over and candidate is not considered.

Coaches might be the same way.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
Remember that the college is also asking you to 'play for your school' and combine academics with team responsibilites. And any degree of 'the hs coach is a moron' may well be interpreted as baggage.

We have heard that too. Coaches are still looking for team players.

Plus the bb community is small. You never know who knows who - so no negative comments about anyone.

I was so proud of my youngest when he put on his HS summer league jersey. It really wasn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, but I was so happy for him and all the guys. They had worked so hard over the years. They had a blast those HOT summer evenings.

quote:

by TG: When my daughter was a junior we sat down with a guidance counselor, the high school coach and the travel head coach to discuss reality in terms of her collegiate athletic potential, where it fit in with her academics and which programs we knew were interested in her. We had all the trips done (on our own time and money) and she verballed as summer started. Our situation may have been a little unique since the high school coach was the roving instructor for her entire travel program and I was the hitting instructor for her team. I know other athletes had conversations arranged betweeen travel coaches and counselors

congrats .. BUT a little unique is quite an understatement?!

... as evidenced by 1000's of postings on this board and ncaa rules, interest is gaged beginning July 1 AFTER jr yr - - with the first wave signing in Nov - many more remain to commit & sign up until college classes begin

guidance conselors consulting with travel coaches of underclassmen sounds like an urban legend, or a taxpayer scam

is there a fee?

on one hand ya suggest hs sports are irrelevent, on the other hand ya have hs coaches as a "prime director" of the kids athletic and college futures



or did I mis-understand?

Regarding colleges scouting hs teams,remember HS season and college season are runinig at the same time

njbb, you are right of course. But coaches do follow players during their high school season. The recruiting coaches that were following my son always knew what kind of game my son had when they would talk. Also knew about basketball games. They have their ways.....Also our legion team was essentially our high school team year after year.

quote:

Originally posted by Bee>:

... as evidenced by 1000's of postings on this board and ncaa rules, interest is gaged beginning July 1 AFTER jr yr - - with the first wave signing in Nov - many more remain to commit & sign up until college classes begin

guidance conselors consulting with travel coaches of underclassmen sounds like an urban legend, or a taxpayer scam

is there a fee?

on one hand ya suggest hs sports are irrelevent, on the other hand ya have hs coaches as a "prime director" of the kids athletic and college futures



or did I mis-understand?

I was informed my response was not relevant to baseball. Therefore neither are your questions. Sorry.

Can we stop comparing what happened to your daughter's s****r, softball whatever recruiting to baseball recruiting? In a few weeks I know more about your daughter's s****r, softball recruiting experiences than some of my friends son's recruiting experiences. I have known them for many years.

Regardless of any similarities, there are many players here who have daughters that play sports and they have never discussed it in relation to baseball recruiting. This is the High School Baseball Web.

I am not trying to be rude, but I do have a tendency to say what others are thinking. So does Bee>.

You want to stay on topic but you constantly get off of it.

BTW, high school coaches here cannot coach their players off season as in most states.

EDITED FOR CORRECTIONS

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Can we stop comparing what happened to your daughter's s****r recruiting to baseball recruiting? In a few weeks I know more about your daughter's s****r recruiting experiences than some of my friends son's recruiting experiences. I have known them for many years.

Regardless of any similarities, there are many players here who have daughters that play s****r and they have never discussed it. This is the High School Baseball Web.

I am not trying to be rude, but I do have a tendency to say what others are thinking. So does Bee>.

You want to stay on topic but you constantly get off of it.

BTW, high school coaches here cannot coach their players off season as in most states.

Softball was not part of my orginal post other than to mention it as one of several high schol sports where travel has taken over all relevance in terms of recruiting. I got dragged into the softball conversation with questions directed at me. When
I was even thinking as I was responding, this isn't relevant other than I'm answering the questions directed at me. Note the last line paragraph of my last post ....

"But your questions have taken this way off target. The question is ....

Is high school ball losing it's relevance for playing college ball?"

I'd respond to your last statement but it wouldn't be baseball related.

One more thing, Julie pays alot for bandwidth use, you do not have to quote everyone.

Yep. TPM and BEE, on this one you read my mind. I sometimes feel that there are folks here for the sole purpose of starting something ugly. Thank you for speaking up.

Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."

i think as long as college continues to be a school, hs baseball will allways be important. that's why they ask for gpa, class rankings,sat scores. it lets them know you can play while keepng grades up. as will be needed in college. jmho

quote:

Originally posted by emeraldvlly:
Yep. TPM and BEE, on this one you read my mind. I sometimes feel that there are folks here for the sole purpose of starting something ugly. Thank you for speaking up.

I started the thread because I thought it would be an interesting exchange as opposed to all the non high school baseball related threads started in the past week. I've come to discover this board isn't about what you know about baseball or what you want to learn. This board is about are you a long timer in the clique. If you're an insider you can post about anything. You can post garbage. It's OK. If you're not, you're subject to criticism for a contrary opinion on baseball subjects.

Lebron James being a Yankee fan is an acceptible post and far more relevant to high school baseball than this post because it was generated by a long time regular.

I think it kind of depends on where you live. Where I live, I hate to say there are really no elite travel teams. Closest summer one is two hours away and for fall its three and a half hours away. Considered the summer one, but there is no way with school work, college visits etc. son could handle playing for a fall team that was 3.5 hours away. Some game locations were even further. He plays 7A HS ball and numerous kids go DI out of our conference. I have no doubt this process would be easier and he would be getting more attention if he had the opportunity to play on a showcase travel team, BUT unfortunately for us, HS ball is the only game in town.

quote:

Originally posted by Tiger Paw Mom:
Can we stop comparing what happened to your daughter's s****r, softball whatever recruiting to baseball recruiting? In a few weeks I know more about your daughter's s****r, softball recruiting experiences than some of my friends son's recruiting experiences. I have known them for many years.

Regardless of any similarities, there are many players here who have daughters that play sports and they have never discussed it in relation to baseball recruiting. This is the High School Baseball Web.

I am not trying to be rude, but I do have a tendency to say what others are thinking. So does Bee>.

You want to stay on topic but you constantly get off of it.

BTW, high school coaches here cannot coach their players off season as in most states.

EDITED FOR CORRECTIONS

For the record, I was asked about it. And even if it's irrelevant to the board, it's no less relevant than a lot of posts placed on this board every day by long timers who can post whatever non related baseball posts they want because they are an accepted part of the clique. They make fun of othyer posters with images but it's OK because they're longtimers and it's just a stupid newcomer they're insulting. I'm looking to be part of a clique. I just wanted to post about baseball and learn more about baseball. But this little coffee club here isn't very accepting of newcomers.

Another thing. Learn the difference between bandwidth and storage. Copying posts doesn't take up nearly as much space as the many images completely unrelated to baseball that are posted here daily. I don't have an issue with the images. But if you're going to get on my back about quoting, jump all over the people putting up images.

What a friendly site! It's too bad because there's a lot of useful information here.

The other day I started a thread about showcases. A long time poster attacked my son saying he must have sucked in a showcase for me to create the thread. My son is only fourteen. I was trying to start a thread to generate discussion. Well in response, if I have to put my son in showcases to get him exposure to a D3 girl's college coached by a former woman's s****r coach I'll burn the money first. This poster should keep his fingers off the keyboard. But thanks for the welcome.

I've referred this site to several friends with the caveat, after they welcome you thread lightly. They're don't treat newcomers very well.

TG, All the images that are posted are links and do not spend storage. Too bad you feel that way about being new. I'm fairly new myself, but I don't feel like I get banged around by the oldies. Everybody gets snapped at now and then, part of the deal.

Those old meanies have been nice to me.

(I'm such a suck up) lol

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
TG, All the images that are posted are links and do not spend storage. Too bad you feel that way about being new. I'm fairly new myself, but I don't feel like I get banged around by the oldies. Everybody gets snapped at now and then, part of the deal.

The images are in a buffer. Otherwise they wouldn't be there immediately.

TG,

I am one of those oldtimers you refer to - and I have so many cyber scars I look like a "web Frankenstein". LOL

Buck up - this isnt a chat room. This is the HSBBweb.

It is a place where people exchange ideas - sometimes very directly. If it gets really bad - the really bad stuff gets wiped out.

But please - dont come here expecting unabounded cyber love - and when you dont get it - hack all the people that have contributed to the best baseball site for players and parents in the world.

We welcome all newcomers - without them - this site dies. It has always been that way.

But just because you are new doesnt mean we have to agree with everything or anything you say - and it certainly doesnt mean that we all suck either.

Buck up - and join the party. IMO

Maybe you should try the moistened corn cobs, TG.

Yup, If you ever really feel like you need good ol fashion AZZ WHOOPIN, head over to the hitting forum and say something stupid.

Go ahead, give it a try..

TG - I think you make good points and have made a nice contribution to our site in short time. I thought this thread was a good one and is one of several good ones you have started.

You do not have to be a member of a clique to belong here. This was a fine topic and lets return it to the intent in which it was created.

tg
you have to grow some thicker skin. i lurked around here for awhile before i posted ,then had trial by fire. i read and learn things here everyday. and as rz said once ,it's like sitting around shootin the breeze with friends. and when that happens, anything can happen. people have bad day's and my or your post might be the outlet. oh well.
some things chap my backside. and then i'll write this big scathing rebuttle,by the time i'm done i can't remember why i wrote it and never post it. and when you type with one finger that really bites.you are doing a good job stirring conversation, don't be so quick to give up. some day's chicken some day's feathers,it evens out in the end .trust me.

quote:

Originally posted by TripleDad:
Yup, If you ever really feel like you need good ol fashion AZZ WHOOPIN, head over to the hitting forum and say something stupid.

Go ahead, give it a try..

LOL

That is the WWF of the HSBBWeb.

But still alot of fun - and - at times - very informative.

Just wear a helmet when you go in.



P.S. - Heres is one other helpful hint.

If you ever go into the Ladies Forum - be polite and respectful.
If you get out of line there - you will be turned into mush faster than you can hit the space bar on your keyboard.

OK, I made my point, then went and took my medication. I was just a little set off with getting reprimanded after some of the irrelevant stuff I've seen posted on a day to day basis. I don't expect agreement. Debate is more interesting. That's why I've started some of the threads I've started.

Hitting forums are same on every board. Put on the tee shirt logo'ed with the hitting guru/god you're devoted to, grab a bat and go in swinging. Detail every explaination down to the letter or get crucified. It's amazing players can be successful using more than one guru's approach, but the devotees will only accept their guru/god. Maybe when the History Channel gets tired of showing the Crusades, dynasties and eras of barbarians, they can do a series on The Hitting Wars.

And TPM, I still like you. The kids have to sass the house mom once in a while .... then duck.

TPM-even you have to admit that this was funny.

"And TPM, I still like you. The kids have to sass the house mom once in a while .... then duck."