Is "It" Talent or Skill?

TPM. Break it down. What % of exposure compared to % of year round play compared with % of talent etc.. on why Florida produces top players.

IMO this is a situation where everyone is right. It's everything combined together in sufficient amounts presented to the right people in an acceptable package. It is a complex COMBINATION of elements that determines the end product a player will become. I do believe that a geographical location or ethnic background can impact the elements a player needs to succeed, but I don't think ethnicity alone has any impact on their future. In other words I agree with rz1 that if Hispanics migrated to the North woods they would not be heavily involved in baseball and their perceived prowess for baseball would diminish or if many Swedes moved south of the border they would find bobsledding difficult and many would turn to, and succeed at baseball. My son had a talent for baseball. Actually what he had very good eye-hand coordination that allowed him to be good at baseball. He also possessed the talent to "fling" something at a high velocity. He could have been successful at a number or athletic endeavors that suited his ability but he chose baseball. I don't know why a ball impressed him as a small boy --- it just did. Another son was infatuated with a wheel. Where he lived, how he lived, the things we taught him, the things we failed to teach him, the God given "athleticism" he had all factored in. Anyone that watches olympic sports knows that athletes can come from anywhere and their success can be attributed to many different things. I've never seen a Hispanic Sumo wrestler or an African curler but that doesn't mean they can't do it in a world class way. In these two cases I guess diet and temperature have as much of an impact on an athlete's success as much as anything else.

Originally posted by gitnby:
Interesting observation about Hispanic players.
But, it just goes to prove my point about geography and genetics.

If more kids from the Dominican Republic lived in Minnesota, then Minnesota would produce more and better players. They would find a way to work on their skills, regardless of the weather.


Obviously, I didn't phrase my earlier post properly.
I didn't mean to imply that there were not good ballplayers up North, or that all Dominicans or Hispanics are genetically great players!

My point is that even if you exclude the Hispanics, there are more good players that live in the warmer climates.
The ability to play and practice year-round is an advantage, but as we start to see more Fall baseball, better training and indoor facilities, that advantage will dissipate some.

St Louis was arguably the most dominant s...er city in the US for years. Many families from other parts of the US moved here to put their kids in the private schools that had high-profile programs. As more programs developed in other parts of the US, the dominance waned, and cities in TX, CA and FL began to take over. It wasn't the weather!
S....er is a year round sport in St Louis, with or without indoor facilities.

For the vast majority of athletes, parental supoport has the greatest influence on the success or failure of the player. (yes there are kids out there who beat the odds) Talent, exposure and climate, factor into the equation. Bottom line. If the families of athletes are not onboard on all fronts, in todays world, the majority of those athletes are going nowhere.

Major league teams building facilities in third world countries, are basically affording the local youths the same opportunity that many U.S kids recieve from their parents. A place to play, quality instruction, training and exposure.

quote:

For the vast majority of athletes, parental supoport has the greatest influence on the success or failure of the player.

I DISAGREE ----- it's talent.

My son played football in HS and the coaches wouldn't allow the players to leave school Fridays (game day) because the parents wouldn't (or couldn't) bring them back to the games.

This very topic was our Summer Team manager speech. He informed the players they were all "talented", however in order to advance they had to out work the competition. He stated there are kids that go off to college, end up coming home because the work was too much. He gave an example of an older player in the system who is now at D1 school. Up at 5AM to work out, then to school at 8AM, classes until 1PM, then baseball practice the remainder of daylight. Then on to his tutors and back in bed by midnight. Not to mention no home cooked meals, laundry, etc. etc. For those of us not there yet, does our son's have the work ethic to handle all this? Only time will tell.

How is talent developed? By the sacrafices a family makes with time and money. If your kid at 5 years old is throwing rocks 150 yards. He's a talented rock thrower. You are either going to allow him to perfect his rock throwing skills in the middle east or your going to develop that skill into something a little more mainstream. At the sacrafice of family resources. It might be as simple as buying a ball and a glove maybe its's javelin. But you know it's not going to stop there.

That is facilitating.

I do get dswann's point. If your family has an athletic bent you get your kids into sports. If they have an artist soul they are artists. Without out a doubt there are Mickey Mantles out there who never picked up a ball as well as Picasso's who never picked up a brush. Parents are the number one influence on young kids development in all areas. After they get older, their own tastes and talents takes over.

There is no doubt that facilitators are necessary but they are not developers of talent.

I agree with Fungo and BHD. The kids have the natural talent and we, the parents, help them by providing them the opportunity to further develope that talent. The talent can be wasted if the player and/or the parents don't work with it.

Talent comes first, everything else is facilitating the talent. All natural talents, whether sports or artistic, have to be refined and practiced. Without the talent all the practice and exposure in the world will not make someone a world class professional.

So the ingrediants for success for a given sport would be

1. Talent
2. Skill
3. Climate
4. Passion / Drive
5. Facilitator

Would a pitching sequence of, 1st pitch 95mph fastball on the black, 2nd pitch 12-6 curve, 3rd pitch + 90 fastball under the chin, 4th pitch 79 mph change-up for strike 3. Be an example of talent or skill.

One last question. Is bowling a game or a sport ?

Talent exists and skills are learned. The example is a talented pitcher who has learned the skills required to throw the sequence you described for strikes. A talented pitcher who has not been taught skills (more than 1 type of pitch) may only throw FBs for example. Short stops learn skills like proper handling of balls coming at them. A talented SS with learn the skills and be more successful than a less talented player learning the same skills.
your list is good.

Throwing a 95 FB is natural talent. Everything else in the sequence is skill. IMO

Bowling is a sport. Alot more people can win or defeat (or whatever you call successful completion)a video GAME than can bowl a 300.

The ability to throw 95 is a talent but the ability to throw it for a strike is a skill. It requires repetition and has a learning curve even for a talented pitcher. The mecahnical aspects are taught.

I've always had the saying that talent will get you to the next level and skill will keep you there.

I've always thought that talent on it's own won't get you a cup of coffee.

Well, if you can throw 98 and not hit the broad side of a barn, I'll bet a few organizations would take a chance on you.

So then it's 1. talent 2. facilitator 3. etc...

quote:

So the ingrediants for success for a given sport would be

1. Talent
2. Skill
3. Climate
4. Passion / Drive
5. Facilitator

I would put it this way

1. Talent/Skill
2. Effort
3. Intelligence
4. Luck

If a player has the above things going for him, he will be very successful.