The Blues Brothers (1980)
Jake: Uh, Bob, about the money for tonight.
Bob: Oh, yeah, $200, and you boys drank $300 worth of beer.
.
Good comments FastballDad and deucedoc.
Good comments FastballDad and deucedoc.
My son does not go to parties where there is alcohol. He wants to play baseball and knows the rules. Our top girl s****r player is missing the first 4 games of the season for being at a party with alcohol. The parents did not complain.
Teh rules are clear and simple.
Kids at parties where alcohol is served are breaking the law. The drinking limit is 21 in Illinois. Look at the Deerfield situation last year. Kids were killed drunk driving. The parents were criminally charged and found guilty for having allowed underage drinking in their home.
The drinking with the parents thing is not relevant. It is not against any of the codes of conduct.
Schools, IMO, have the right to ask for a code of conduct. There is no question playing sports is a privilege and not a right. Grades, athletic ability, and other behaviors are required to keep eligibility.
My son is a popular kid who has maintained that popularity while avoiding the parties where there is drinking and drugs. He knows ahead of time who will be there and what will be going on. Happily, he has a group of friends that understand. Sometimes, some of the kids in the group go to the parties, the others hang out somewhere else. He always manages to keep an active social life. He also knows kids that he competes against who use steroids. It botheres him that those players are trying to get an unfair advantage, He just works harder.
I respectfully disagree with my son's future teammate Mr. Weaver. I hope next year Weaver looks out for my kid and doesn't put pressure on him so he can enjoy baseball and not feel like he has to do things he shouldn't to be "part of the team". My hunch is Coach Metzger runs a tight ship.
This alcohol thing and the code of conduct have been around for years. Follow the rules and you play. Consuming or not has never been the determining factor. You can't go to those parties and all the kids know it.
And I am as left wing as it gets. I AM for legalizing, selling and taxing marijuana (although I would keep the legal age the same as alcohol).
Teh rules are clear and simple.
Kids at parties where alcohol is served are breaking the law. The drinking limit is 21 in Illinois. Look at the Deerfield situation last year. Kids were killed drunk driving. The parents were criminally charged and found guilty for having allowed underage drinking in their home.
The drinking with the parents thing is not relevant. It is not against any of the codes of conduct.
Schools, IMO, have the right to ask for a code of conduct. There is no question playing sports is a privilege and not a right. Grades, athletic ability, and other behaviors are required to keep eligibility.
My son is a popular kid who has maintained that popularity while avoiding the parties where there is drinking and drugs. He knows ahead of time who will be there and what will be going on. Happily, he has a group of friends that understand. Sometimes, some of the kids in the group go to the parties, the others hang out somewhere else. He always manages to keep an active social life. He also knows kids that he competes against who use steroids. It botheres him that those players are trying to get an unfair advantage, He just works harder.
I respectfully disagree with my son's future teammate Mr. Weaver. I hope next year Weaver looks out for my kid and doesn't put pressure on him so he can enjoy baseball and not feel like he has to do things he shouldn't to be "part of the team". My hunch is Coach Metzger runs a tight ship.
This alcohol thing and the code of conduct have been around for years. Follow the rules and you play. Consuming or not has never been the determining factor. You can't go to those parties and all the kids know it.
And I am as left wing as it gets. I AM for legalizing, selling and taxing marijuana (although I would keep the legal age the same as alcohol).
My kids also lead an active social life without drinking or attending parties where alcohol is present. They also don't shoplift, hold up stores, break into other people's houses, beat people up at school... all illegal activities, all things that other athletes in our school have done and been suspended for. We believe in upholding the laws - all of them - and would want our kids to feel the full effects of the consequences of breaking the law if they chose to do the wrong thing.
Not all parents feel the same way, however. I can tell you many stories of parents who "helped" their kid out by either fighting the suspension (it's amazing to me how many kids are at parties where they had "no idea" others were drinking or using drugs... really?) or encouraging their child to go out for another sport prior to the "real" season to serve their suspension on a team that means nothing to them. The parents think they are being very clever - I think they are sending a very bad message. And in every case that I know of where the parents "stood up" for their child, the kid eventually got caught again. What a surprise.
The athletic code allows for the "mistakes" and "bad choices" that young people sometimes make. No one is gone after one incident. But does anyone really believe that a player would be unlucky enough to break the rules twice and get caught BOTH TIMES? Or do you think, like I do, that being caught more than once probably means it's something that has been done on a somewhat regular basis?
CD - you say "if the young man was not drinking he deserves absolutely no punishment". But what if the rules say - as they obviously do in this case - you cannot be at a party where drinking is going on, and he was there... does he get to pick and choose which part of the rule he has to follow and which part he doesn't? We have always taught our kids that you follow all the rules - if you don't feel a rule is right or fair, then work to change it. But until you are successful in changing the rule, you follow it. In this case, I don't know how anyone can defend being in a place where illegal activity is going on - underage drinking is ILLEGAL folks. Would it be OK if he stood by while his buddies broke into a house and stole some stuff, as long as he didn't actively participate? True story from our school, and the parents argued that the player should not be punished as he was only there, not really doing anything bad.
TR - your argument is so far off the mark but is one that is thrown into the mix all the time just to muddy the water. The athletic code does not forbid kids from doing things that are LEGAL... like being in your own house with your parents, or going to a restaurant where alcohol is served. The code addresses ILLEGAL activities - why is that so hard to understand?
J. Weaver - You see the player as a victim - "I wouldn't want my senior year taken away from me". No one "took it away"... he GAVE it away, by his own poor choices. Not once, but twice. And the article does NOT clearly say that he was not drinking... it clearly says that his DAD says he wasn't drinking on that night. There's a difference - he may be right, and he may not. Only the boy in question knows for sure. But obviously he was somewhere doing something that he should not have been doing - that's not a victim, that's a willing participant.
As for those who say players are "forced" to sign the athletic code - to me, what you are actually signing is a document that says you understand the rules, which simply avoids the arguments later when you are caught in violation - "I didn't know" is no longer a defense at that point. Why would anyone have a problem with being asked to acknowledge that you understand that you cannot break the law and still be allowed to play on a team? I don't get that. Our school has a standing rules committee that students can serve on voluntarily and they get an opportunity to make revisions. The students always speak out in favor of enforcement - no one ever complains about being forced to agree to follow the law.
It's a hard lesson for a young person, I am sure. But he was not surprised by the rules, nor should he be surprised that his school enforced the rules, as he's been in this position once before. Maybe other kids will think twice. I am with those who are impressed that the school upheld the suspension. There are three players that I know of in our conference who were arrested over the winter for various offenses - pot possession, underage drinking and shoplifting alcohol, all published in the police blotter - who are all playing for their schools. Shame on them.
Not all parents feel the same way, however. I can tell you many stories of parents who "helped" their kid out by either fighting the suspension (it's amazing to me how many kids are at parties where they had "no idea" others were drinking or using drugs... really?) or encouraging their child to go out for another sport prior to the "real" season to serve their suspension on a team that means nothing to them. The parents think they are being very clever - I think they are sending a very bad message. And in every case that I know of where the parents "stood up" for their child, the kid eventually got caught again. What a surprise.
The athletic code allows for the "mistakes" and "bad choices" that young people sometimes make. No one is gone after one incident. But does anyone really believe that a player would be unlucky enough to break the rules twice and get caught BOTH TIMES? Or do you think, like I do, that being caught more than once probably means it's something that has been done on a somewhat regular basis?
CD - you say "if the young man was not drinking he deserves absolutely no punishment". But what if the rules say - as they obviously do in this case - you cannot be at a party where drinking is going on, and he was there... does he get to pick and choose which part of the rule he has to follow and which part he doesn't? We have always taught our kids that you follow all the rules - if you don't feel a rule is right or fair, then work to change it. But until you are successful in changing the rule, you follow it. In this case, I don't know how anyone can defend being in a place where illegal activity is going on - underage drinking is ILLEGAL folks. Would it be OK if he stood by while his buddies broke into a house and stole some stuff, as long as he didn't actively participate? True story from our school, and the parents argued that the player should not be punished as he was only there, not really doing anything bad.
TR - your argument is so far off the mark but is one that is thrown into the mix all the time just to muddy the water. The athletic code does not forbid kids from doing things that are LEGAL... like being in your own house with your parents, or going to a restaurant where alcohol is served. The code addresses ILLEGAL activities - why is that so hard to understand?
J. Weaver - You see the player as a victim - "I wouldn't want my senior year taken away from me". No one "took it away"... he GAVE it away, by his own poor choices. Not once, but twice. And the article does NOT clearly say that he was not drinking... it clearly says that his DAD says he wasn't drinking on that night. There's a difference - he may be right, and he may not. Only the boy in question knows for sure. But obviously he was somewhere doing something that he should not have been doing - that's not a victim, that's a willing participant.
As for those who say players are "forced" to sign the athletic code - to me, what you are actually signing is a document that says you understand the rules, which simply avoids the arguments later when you are caught in violation - "I didn't know" is no longer a defense at that point. Why would anyone have a problem with being asked to acknowledge that you understand that you cannot break the law and still be allowed to play on a team? I don't get that. Our school has a standing rules committee that students can serve on voluntarily and they get an opportunity to make revisions. The students always speak out in favor of enforcement - no one ever complains about being forced to agree to follow the law.
It's a hard lesson for a young person, I am sure. But he was not surprised by the rules, nor should he be surprised that his school enforced the rules, as he's been in this position once before. Maybe other kids will think twice. I am with those who are impressed that the school upheld the suspension. There are three players that I know of in our conference who were arrested over the winter for various offenses - pot possession, underage drinking and shoplifting alcohol, all published in the police blotter - who are all playing for their schools. Shame on them.
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
We believe in upholding the laws - all of them - and would want our kids to feel the full effects of the consequences of breaking the law if they chose to do the wrong thing.
... no one ever complains about being forced to agree to follow the law.
And here we have reached the essence of the larger problem. A great number of people calling HS policies "laws". This kid broke a school policy, not the law.
Why have we given the power of law enforcement and punishment over to school administrators? We have a court system that handles these things. The school should be responsible for enforcing discipline at the school and during school related activities. The school is not here as the policing body of young people in the community, the police and courts are here for that.
This is the slippery slope, parents handing over rights to academics, many of whom have never raised children of the age they are disciplining, and promoting an alternate system of justice outside the bounds of the laws we as voters have a say in.
High profile examples like this one help serve notice to other athletes/ students about the importance of avoiding alcohol. As regrettable as this story is, it may help save a life.
Sure your kids don't go to parties where alcohol is being illegally consumed.
Tuzigoot---I'm not sure what's so funny? My kids don't (didn't) go to parties where alcohol is illegally consumed....because they don't (didn't) go to parties. They may go to friends' homes.....where alcohol is not consumed. Not every high school kid wants to drink, or drinks even though they may not want to.
I applaud Nequa Valley HS. I'm sure it was very tough for them to do....for many obvious reasons. But rules are rules, and they apply to everybody. Or they should, anyway. Part of the reason that our country is in the mess it's in is because there was a double standard applied to certain people. We need to stop that practice....and it will only happen if we enforce the rules (or laws) that we can. What is the old saying? "If it's to be, it starts with me"?
But there is one player on this baseball team who will be given an opportunity that he probably wouldn't have been given. I hope that kid, whoever he is, does well.....and I hope the rest of the team does, too.
Where did I read "When life hands you gators, make Gatorade" ???
I applaud Nequa Valley HS. I'm sure it was very tough for them to do....for many obvious reasons. But rules are rules, and they apply to everybody. Or they should, anyway. Part of the reason that our country is in the mess it's in is because there was a double standard applied to certain people. We need to stop that practice....and it will only happen if we enforce the rules (or laws) that we can. What is the old saying? "If it's to be, it starts with me"?
But there is one player on this baseball team who will be given an opportunity that he probably wouldn't have been given. I hope that kid, whoever he is, does well.....and I hope the rest of the team does, too.
Where did I read "When life hands you gators, make Gatorade" ???
Go ahead and laugh Tuzi - people like you are part of the problem. Four of my kids are grown adults who have no problem telling me exactly what went on in high school - and not one of them drank then or drinks now, when they legally could do whatever they want. But they all knew parents like you who thought it was ridiculous to expect kids to choose NOT to drink and simply laughed and looked the other way. Parents who thought it was OK to let their kids and their friends drink at their houses so they could "make sure nobody got hurt", and more importantly, nobody got caught. That's what those parents referred to as being "smart". The courts are now recognizing it for what it is - contributing to illegal activity.
And CPLZ - I've considered your argument as well, but the truth of the matter is it IS illegal for kids to be at underage drinking parties. Whether they are drinking alcohol or not, they are in attendance at a party where illegal activity is going on, and that will get them in trouble with the police. This happens to be high school policy re-emphasizing the law. I don't think you have to have raised high school kids to know that underage drinking is a big problem - parents aren't addressing it, so should we just ignore it? With all the other things we expect our schools to teach our kids, you think it's unreasonable to teach them that they have to obey the law and that there will be consequences if they don't?
This is not the school telling you when your kid needs to go to bed or what kind of chores they need to do at home. This is saying there are rules that have to be followed - keep your grades up, don't skip school, show up at practice - to stay on the team. Why aren't you upset about the school telling you your kid can't be failing any classes and still be on the team? Aren't they imposing their own standards on your parenting? Shouldn't you be the one deciding what kind of grades your child needs to be getting or how many days a week he needs to be at school?
While this situation is referring to things that happen outside of school, we're also talking about BREAKING THE LAW. I don't think it's too much to expect from our student athletes to live within the laws of the community. If parents aren't going to expect it of their own kids, then I guess we have to put one foot on that slippery slope and hope it helps at least some of them make better choices - and live to the age where they can legally do whatever they want.
And CPLZ - I've considered your argument as well, but the truth of the matter is it IS illegal for kids to be at underage drinking parties. Whether they are drinking alcohol or not, they are in attendance at a party where illegal activity is going on, and that will get them in trouble with the police. This happens to be high school policy re-emphasizing the law. I don't think you have to have raised high school kids to know that underage drinking is a big problem - parents aren't addressing it, so should we just ignore it? With all the other things we expect our schools to teach our kids, you think it's unreasonable to teach them that they have to obey the law and that there will be consequences if they don't?
This is not the school telling you when your kid needs to go to bed or what kind of chores they need to do at home. This is saying there are rules that have to be followed - keep your grades up, don't skip school, show up at practice - to stay on the team. Why aren't you upset about the school telling you your kid can't be failing any classes and still be on the team? Aren't they imposing their own standards on your parenting? Shouldn't you be the one deciding what kind of grades your child needs to be getting or how many days a week he needs to be at school?
While this situation is referring to things that happen outside of school, we're also talking about BREAKING THE LAW. I don't think it's too much to expect from our student athletes to live within the laws of the community. If parents aren't going to expect it of their own kids, then I guess we have to put one foot on that slippery slope and hope it helps at least some of them make better choices - and live to the age where they can legally do whatever they want.
quote:It's not illegal to be at a place where alcohol is being consumed if you are underage. It IS illegal to consume alcohol underage. This is why you see "drinking" tickets and you don't see "being at a party" tickets. The player did NOT consume any.
You've never heard of a "minor in possession" ticket I guess. You don't have to be drinking to get one; just be around it.
you honestly believe he wasn't drinking Jonathan?
playbaseball and mythreesons,
I think you may have misinterpreted Tuzi's intent here. I think Tuzi is questioning (not yours specifically)what would be the reply from most HS student athletes when questioned about alcohol at HS gatherings...no. Lets all be realistic ~ it does occur. Because it is denied does not mean it is not happening. We as adults/parents are challenged with reinforcing laws and school requirements, but we do have to acknowledge that our kids will still make choices that will hurt themselves and those around them (his parents and his team). In this circumstance, unfortunately, it is the second instance and was dealt with accordingly and appropriately. I hope there is enough concern and compassion at the end of the day for this young man to have the important people in his life offer some measure of forgiveness. I'm certain he is sorry and embarrased.
To say that it is people like Tuzi who are part of the problem is irresponsible. He and his family are as hands on in the emotional, social and academic aspects of their kids lives as anyone (oh, and baseball development).
I think you may have misinterpreted Tuzi's intent here. I think Tuzi is questioning (not yours specifically)what would be the reply from most HS student athletes when questioned about alcohol at HS gatherings...no. Lets all be realistic ~ it does occur. Because it is denied does not mean it is not happening. We as adults/parents are challenged with reinforcing laws and school requirements, but we do have to acknowledge that our kids will still make choices that will hurt themselves and those around them (his parents and his team). In this circumstance, unfortunately, it is the second instance and was dealt with accordingly and appropriately. I hope there is enough concern and compassion at the end of the day for this young man to have the important people in his life offer some measure of forgiveness. I'm certain he is sorry and embarrased.
To say that it is people like Tuzi who are part of the problem is irresponsible. He and his family are as hands on in the emotional, social and academic aspects of their kids lives as anyone (oh, and baseball development).
I haven't read through the entire thread so I am not sure if this has been stated, but this incident did not occur at an underage drinking party.
quote:parents handing over rights to academics, many of whom have never raised children of the age they are disciplining
CPLZ, are you serious, so how do teachers handle the discipline withing their own classrooms, at that how did you ever come to send your son/daughter to high school knowing that they might be disciplined by someone who has never raised a child of the high school age. Right and wrong is not about age, quit skirting the issue.
Traveldad: Yes, I know that that drinking occurs at parties. Unfortunately it occurs way too often---and many kids who drink do so because they think they have to in order to fit in. They don't want to drink, but they do anyway.
I have not accused anybody of anything.
The school where my children attend (two have graduated) has the same policy (or school rule) --if you are AT a party where drinking occurs, it is the same as if your were CAUGHT drinking. It is clearly published---and parents and students sign it. And because we knew that drinking happened at parties was precisely the reason that mine did not attend these parties-----because they knew the stakes were sooooo high in case the party got busted. They knew that IF the party got busted, THEN they would be in big trouble.......And they did not want to risk being suspended for even a practice, let alone a game, nor did they want anything to jeopardize their college scholarships. Guess what, they survived.
I have a daughter who is a high school athlete. She knows the rules and abides by them....
Once upon a time, the drinking age was 18. In Illinois it was 19 to ensure that high school kids did not drink. Because of Mothers Against Drunk Driving lobbying in the early 80's, the punishment was stiff if you get pulled over for driving under the influence (used to be alcohol only, then added to included drugs--legal or not). And in the subsequent years, many more kids have died....and have caused others to die.....so now the schools must have the strict policies that they have. And bars are held responsible for drunk driving accidents. Etc.
Some time ago the drinking age changed back from 18 or 19 to 21. And it is still not legal for high school students to drink.
And yet they do. And they still die....or worse....
I don't know the kid involved. I hope that his baseball career is not over; I understand he is quite a talent. And with that talent comes responsibility----right or wrong. We do hold athletes to a higher standard. Perhaps that is the balance to the benefits and perks that athletes get. I don't know.
I will agree that there are some school policies that are stupid. We need to work to get them changed so that they make sense. But imagine a school without policies or rules.....I don't really want to.
I have not accused anybody of anything.
The school where my children attend (two have graduated) has the same policy (or school rule) --if you are AT a party where drinking occurs, it is the same as if your were CAUGHT drinking. It is clearly published---and parents and students sign it. And because we knew that drinking happened at parties was precisely the reason that mine did not attend these parties-----because they knew the stakes were sooooo high in case the party got busted. They knew that IF the party got busted, THEN they would be in big trouble.......And they did not want to risk being suspended for even a practice, let alone a game, nor did they want anything to jeopardize their college scholarships. Guess what, they survived.
I have a daughter who is a high school athlete. She knows the rules and abides by them....
Once upon a time, the drinking age was 18. In Illinois it was 19 to ensure that high school kids did not drink. Because of Mothers Against Drunk Driving lobbying in the early 80's, the punishment was stiff if you get pulled over for driving under the influence (used to be alcohol only, then added to included drugs--legal or not). And in the subsequent years, many more kids have died....and have caused others to die.....so now the schools must have the strict policies that they have. And bars are held responsible for drunk driving accidents. Etc.
Some time ago the drinking age changed back from 18 or 19 to 21. And it is still not legal for high school students to drink.
And yet they do. And they still die....or worse....
I don't know the kid involved. I hope that his baseball career is not over; I understand he is quite a talent. And with that talent comes responsibility----right or wrong. We do hold athletes to a higher standard. Perhaps that is the balance to the benefits and perks that athletes get. I don't know.
I will agree that there are some school policies that are stupid. We need to work to get them changed so that they make sense. But imagine a school without policies or rules.....I don't really want to.
Fair enough J-Weave
To eg12: then where else would this have occurred?
To eg12: then where else would this have occurred?
The player was one of 4 boys who were thrown out of a Bulls game for their drunkin behavior. Then the driver (not the player mentioned) was stopped for DUI. The father says there was no consumption of alcohol, but the other baseball player that was in the group admitted to drinking, another boy gets a DUI? Hmmm...
Past occurances, other members drinking...., if it walks like a duck and talks like duck... I'm guessing its a duck.
The player is a good kid who has made a couple of mistakes. Not unlike many HS kids. He just got caught. He will come out of this a better young man.
Past occurances, other members drinking...., if it walks like a duck and talks like duck... I'm guessing its a duck.
The player is a good kid who has made a couple of mistakes. Not unlike many HS kids. He just got caught. He will come out of this a better young man.
.
.....Oh dear............
.....Oh dear............
Mr. Weaver, I accept your statement and thank you for the response. If you read it I said "I hope you...".
My son was on the committee that reviewed the rules at his school. They do differentiate punishment between consuming and attending. He did say kids always know which parties are going to have alcohol and which don't. They know the rules and take their chances.
The situation described is worse than an underage drinking party. It was an accident waiting to happen. By getting stopped, the kid's lives or some innocent person may have been saved.
My son was on the committee that reviewed the rules at his school. They do differentiate punishment between consuming and attending. He did say kids always know which parties are going to have alcohol and which don't. They know the rules and take their chances.
The situation described is worse than an underage drinking party. It was an accident waiting to happen. By getting stopped, the kid's lives or some innocent person may have been saved.
Whether or not people like to admit it, athletes deal with this stuff all of the time. I dont want to leave my opinion on this situation because it's none of my business. I will say that the higher the athlete goes in sports, the more that this way of life is present. Girls and partying are connected with athletics. It's just how it is. Everyone makes their own choices on how they want to live their life.
The main reasoning for the drinking age being 21 is because that is when the government considers you a mature adult. In which you should be able to drink responsibly(no driving). If you are drinking responsibly, it is really not hard to stay out of trouble.
The main reasoning for the drinking age being 21 is because that is when the government considers you a mature adult. In which you should be able to drink responsibly(no driving). If you are drinking responsibly, it is really not hard to stay out of trouble.
Kenny, the age is 23 developmentally, it has to due with the developmment of the mature brain. The comparisons are staggering. Typically, persons who begin drinking(become drunk with great regularity) prior to the age of 23 can develop an addiction within six months of abusive use. However that addiction would take some 10 plus years post 23 years of age. The drinking age of 21 has more to do with the alcohol lobbyists.
Traveldad - I read Tuzi right. He thinks anyone who believes their kids when they say they don't drink is naive. He's wrong, that's all.
I work in a high school setting and talk to kids about this stuff every day. Kids are NOT afraid to let you know they drink. They do not believe it is wrong. They think it's fun, cool and makes them more of a grown up. And the more they drink, the cooler it is. Binge drinking is a huge problem in high school and college. Being really, really drunk is considered to be lots of fun. There's more than one way to die from alcohol.
Kids think the only problem with drinking is getting caught. When their friends die in drunk driving accidents, the response is to have a big drinking party and drink to their buddy's memory. If you think I'm kidding, you are the one who's naive.
They drink at home, they drink at friend's, they drink in parks, they drink in cars, they drink before school, during school, after school. It's an epidemic and it's killing our kids. It also leads to other problems, like promiscuity and STDs. Nothing good comes out of getting wasted - can we all agree to that? And the point of drinking to a high school age student - and well into college as well - is to get totally, completely drunk off your feet.
J. Weaver - how do you know that this boy didn't drink on that night... were you there? As far as peer pressure in college sports - does your team hold "mandatory meetings"... code for drinking parties that the whole team is expected to attend? Both of my older boys experienced this with their teams at two different schools. Both said no thanks. And guess what - once they did, a number of others felt that they could also decline the "invitation". If more kids who are looked up to by their peers would do the same, we might have some hope for the future.
And again, it is indeed illegal for anyone of any age to be in the company of underage drinkers, whether you yourself are drinking or not. You say a MIP is a misdemeanor - is that not breaking the law?
I work in a high school setting and talk to kids about this stuff every day. Kids are NOT afraid to let you know they drink. They do not believe it is wrong. They think it's fun, cool and makes them more of a grown up. And the more they drink, the cooler it is. Binge drinking is a huge problem in high school and college. Being really, really drunk is considered to be lots of fun. There's more than one way to die from alcohol.
Kids think the only problem with drinking is getting caught. When their friends die in drunk driving accidents, the response is to have a big drinking party and drink to their buddy's memory. If you think I'm kidding, you are the one who's naive.
They drink at home, they drink at friend's, they drink in parks, they drink in cars, they drink before school, during school, after school. It's an epidemic and it's killing our kids. It also leads to other problems, like promiscuity and STDs. Nothing good comes out of getting wasted - can we all agree to that? And the point of drinking to a high school age student - and well into college as well - is to get totally, completely drunk off your feet.
J. Weaver - how do you know that this boy didn't drink on that night... were you there? As far as peer pressure in college sports - does your team hold "mandatory meetings"... code for drinking parties that the whole team is expected to attend? Both of my older boys experienced this with their teams at two different schools. Both said no thanks. And guess what - once they did, a number of others felt that they could also decline the "invitation". If more kids who are looked up to by their peers would do the same, we might have some hope for the future.
And again, it is indeed illegal for anyone of any age to be in the company of underage drinkers, whether you yourself are drinking or not. You say a MIP is a misdemeanor - is that not breaking the law?
quote:And again, it is indeed illegal for anyone of any age to be in the company of underage drinkers, whether you yourself are drinking or not. You say a MIP is a misdemeanor - is that not breaking the law?
But the logic is "if you disagree with the law, then it's okay to break that law."
Ya playball, I was just stating that 21 is when the government thinks we are mature enough to drink.
quote:Originally posted by Drop3rdStrike:
The player was one of 4 boys who were thrown out of a Bulls game for their drunkin behavior. Then the driver (not the player mentioned) was stopped for DUI. The father says there was no consumption of alcohol, but the other baseball player that was in the group admitted to drinking, another boy gets a DUI? Hmmm...
Past occurances, other members drinking...., if it walks like a duck and talks like duck... I'm guessing its a duck.
The player is a good kid who has made a couple of mistakes. Not unlike many HS kids. He just got caught. He will come out of this a better young man.
I have to wonder why a sober person would let a person under the influence drive them home? Especially in Chicago? Haven't we seen like 1000 designated driver commercials on TV? Seems like they might even cover that stuff in Driver's Ed class too.
quote:Seems like they might even cover that stuff in Driver's Ed class too.
Yeah, once or twice..
Weaver, I'm not sure where your "and drinks alcohol" is coming from. My readings have shown that having consumed any is not a requirement of a POSSESSION ticket.
This thread needs to be taken down. There is no need to go on and on about a 17 year old's mistake. It is unfair for anyone to question this young man's actions on that night especially when no one on this board was there. There are no police reports to review and there are no witnesses to contribute. Does it sound bad? YES! Has anything been confirmed? NO!!
No the board has begun attacking and insinuating that others support underage drinking because they feel the penalties against the player were too stiff. I think everyone needs to go back and reread the responses.
CLPZ, Please delete this thread and any others that specifically address the actions of a player.
No the board has begun attacking and insinuating that others support underage drinking because they feel the penalties against the player were too stiff. I think everyone needs to go back and reread the responses.
CLPZ, Please delete this thread and any others that specifically address the actions of a player.
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
Traveldad - I read Tuzi right. He thinks anyone who believes their kids when they say they don't drink is naive. He's wrong, that's all.
Here is my comment, "Sure your kids don't go to parties where alcohol is being illegally consumed."
IMO I took it a level below illegal consumption, and that is in the presence of illegal consumption. Never said your/our kids drinking.
Doesn't even have to be at a "party." Last year several kids got COCs that went to the Dave Matthews concert, and weren't even drinking. But other kids were drinking in the venue and that was good enough. Believe it! How can a kid even go to a concert, or maybe the right age for that now is 21.
I don't condone underage drinking. I do think the majority of parents are naive if they think that their kid can't ever get themselve in a position where they can violate a COC. COCs don't require that a law be broken, and it allows broad interpretation by the scool. It doesn't take much, scratch concerts off the list. Your kids been to any?
Norfrank,
You are correct.
We got 4 pages for the search engines here..everyone? Is this enough?..anecdotes are starting to trickle in..We don't need no stinkin 'anecdotes.
I second Norfranks motion to yank this puppy and let this kid deal with this issue the old fashioned way, with his family.
Yank and let die with the rest of the internet flotsam and jetsam. Absolutely no reason for this to become part of this guy's written legacy.
You are correct.
We got 4 pages for the search engines here..everyone? Is this enough?..anecdotes are starting to trickle in..We don't need no stinkin 'anecdotes.
I second Norfranks motion to yank this puppy and let this kid deal with this issue the old fashioned way, with his family.
Yank and let die with the rest of the internet flotsam and jetsam. Absolutely no reason for this to become part of this guy's written legacy.
quote:Originally posted by Coho:
Norfrank,
You are correct.
We got 4 pages for the search engines here..everyone? Is this enough?..anecdotes are starting to trickle in..We don't need no stinkin 'anecdotes.
I second Norfranks motion to yank this puppy and let this kid deal with this issue the old fashioned way, with his family.
Yank and let die with the rest of the internet flotsam and jetsam. Absolutely no reason for this to become part of this guy's written legacy.
Amen.
Norfrank, I disagree. When you're at the top, you have to be careful about what you do. It's the hard fact that you are on display for all the good stuff you do as well as all the not-so-good stuff. Michael Phelps is another person who has learned that lesson... or maybe is still learning it. Should we suddenly just pretend the player never existed and nobody talk about what happened?
And nobody is attacking anyone - people are just sharing opinions. Why are people so afraid of that process? You are correct, no one from here was there (that we know of), but the facts appear to be undisputed - a player broke the rules and it involves alcohol. That's from his dad's own mouth. That's all that's been discussed and whether the penalty fits the situation. I'm not keen on people posting details without saying who they are and how they know, but other than that, nothing we say here is going to hurt the boy anymore than he's already hurt himself.
And no, Tuzi, my kids don't go to concerts either. Same reason. Too many people there doing things they shouldn't be doing. They're pretty much straight arrows. Your comment was "sure your kids don't go to parties..." followed by many laughing little faces. Your message was clear. You think it's laughable that I believe my kids stay away from places where alcohol is being consumed. And I'm letting you know that you can laugh if you want, but you are the one who is wrong. And I do believe that it's the attitude that "it's impossible to avoid all potential situations" is a big part of the problem. No, it's not - you just have to make a decision about what's more important to you. For my kids, it's always been the sport, so the decision was an easy one. Others seem to have a harder time making those choices.
J. Weaver - I'm not assuming anything about you personally. I was addressing your comment that you wouldn't want your season "taken away" and that if a player wasn't drinking they shouldn't be punished. I just asked if you thought a player should be allowed to pick and choose which rules - or parts of rules - to follow or not. I shared my sons' experience only to say that there is a lot of pressure put on athletes in college to drink and wondered if that had been your experience as well. And I didn't say he was drinking - I said he got caught with alcohol, which is both illegal and against the training rules. Again, those facts appear to be undisputed by all involved. And you did say MIP is a misdemeanor... maybe that's not what you meant, but it is what you said.
Here's the other interesting thing - as soon as people find out that you don't drink, they stop inviting you to places where there's going to be alcohol. They really don't want you around if you aren't partaking... there's that whole "will you tell?" thing going through their heads, I guess. So anytime I hear that someone got caught at a party where there was alcohol, but they weren't drinking, I have to wonder... why are your friends inviting you if they know that you don't drink?
And nobody is attacking anyone - people are just sharing opinions. Why are people so afraid of that process? You are correct, no one from here was there (that we know of), but the facts appear to be undisputed - a player broke the rules and it involves alcohol. That's from his dad's own mouth. That's all that's been discussed and whether the penalty fits the situation. I'm not keen on people posting details without saying who they are and how they know, but other than that, nothing we say here is going to hurt the boy anymore than he's already hurt himself.
And no, Tuzi, my kids don't go to concerts either. Same reason. Too many people there doing things they shouldn't be doing. They're pretty much straight arrows. Your comment was "sure your kids don't go to parties..." followed by many laughing little faces. Your message was clear. You think it's laughable that I believe my kids stay away from places where alcohol is being consumed. And I'm letting you know that you can laugh if you want, but you are the one who is wrong. And I do believe that it's the attitude that "it's impossible to avoid all potential situations" is a big part of the problem. No, it's not - you just have to make a decision about what's more important to you. For my kids, it's always been the sport, so the decision was an easy one. Others seem to have a harder time making those choices.
J. Weaver - I'm not assuming anything about you personally. I was addressing your comment that you wouldn't want your season "taken away" and that if a player wasn't drinking they shouldn't be punished. I just asked if you thought a player should be allowed to pick and choose which rules - or parts of rules - to follow or not. I shared my sons' experience only to say that there is a lot of pressure put on athletes in college to drink and wondered if that had been your experience as well. And I didn't say he was drinking - I said he got caught with alcohol, which is both illegal and against the training rules. Again, those facts appear to be undisputed by all involved. And you did say MIP is a misdemeanor... maybe that's not what you meant, but it is what you said.
Here's the other interesting thing - as soon as people find out that you don't drink, they stop inviting you to places where there's going to be alcohol. They really don't want you around if you aren't partaking... there's that whole "will you tell?" thing going through their heads, I guess. So anytime I hear that someone got caught at a party where there was alcohol, but they weren't drinking, I have to wonder... why are your friends inviting you if they know that you don't drink?
My three sons let me remind you this is a 17 year old kid. He does not need his name all over search engines. He made a mistake. Do you take some sort of sick joy putting his name out there. I think it is great your sons never went to parties or concerts. I agree that I would not want my children to be put into awkward situations. Having said that, we (other parents) may want to use his situation to discuss life's lessons with our children but not with the general public. You are fortunate and blessed that your children never had to face such scrutiny because they never put themselves in that position. Consider that a success to your parenting skills. I do believe it is time to lay off this player. I believe your posts make a lot of assumptions that are not fair to any of the people involved.
Mythreesons, I don't condone underage drinking; and I'm not holier-than-thou.
Norfrank
The kids name has already been plastered all over because of this latest incident . In all the local newspapers and on the internet . The situation can be discussed without ripping into the kid. These discussions can be of some benefit to other kids who can hopefully learn from it . Sweeping it under the rug is just an easy way out. Should everyone just go on and pretend nothing happened ?
Once again ..this was not the kids first brush with this type of behavior .
The kids name has already been plastered all over because of this latest incident . In all the local newspapers and on the internet . The situation can be discussed without ripping into the kid. These discussions can be of some benefit to other kids who can hopefully learn from it . Sweeping it under the rug is just an easy way out. Should everyone just go on and pretend nothing happened ?
Once again ..this was not the kids first brush with this type of behavior .
This particular 17 year old has been on several baseball magazine covers and was on the verge of receiving a million dollar signing bonus in a couple of months. I think that sets him apart from the average 17 year old. I certainly don't think anyone should blast him but to think that this was not going to be discussed on this forum would be naive.
Oi, what a dilemma we have here.
Hmm...first, the story started out that the individual was at a party. Second story, coming back from a Bulls game and is found to be in a vehicle where the driver received a DUI. Either way, they are two completely different stories, and, here it is... guilty by association. My face when I think of this ugly term? (-.-) Was alcohol consumed by this individual? Who knows. I see assumptions left and right on this particular thread that caught my eye. The facts cannot be confirmed, obviously. By the way, bulldogs look grotesque.
It's so easy to just sit back and say "YES, HE DESERVES WHAT HE WAS GIVEN." or should I say, what was taken away from him? This fine young man's season comes to a screeching stop, and is ripped from his hands. Do I think it is a fair punishment? qiunyqwqwbeaiudyb aisud! Of course not. It is ridiculous. I understand most of you are fathers. What if one of your sons was in the same position? Would you sit back and let his season cease to exist? Or would you argue back and fight for his ability to be let out on the field? The kid didn't murder anyone. He didn't rob a bank.
Tuzigoot is right. What he means, is that high school is high school; whether you know it or not, someone will always be poundin' away or lighting up at a gathering or a get-together.
Hmm...first, the story started out that the individual was at a party. Second story, coming back from a Bulls game and is found to be in a vehicle where the driver received a DUI. Either way, they are two completely different stories, and, here it is... guilty by association. My face when I think of this ugly term? (-.-) Was alcohol consumed by this individual? Who knows. I see assumptions left and right on this particular thread that caught my eye. The facts cannot be confirmed, obviously. By the way, bulldogs look grotesque.
It's so easy to just sit back and say "YES, HE DESERVES WHAT HE WAS GIVEN." or should I say, what was taken away from him? This fine young man's season comes to a screeching stop, and is ripped from his hands. Do I think it is a fair punishment? qiunyqwqwbeaiudyb aisud! Of course not. It is ridiculous. I understand most of you are fathers. What if one of your sons was in the same position? Would you sit back and let his season cease to exist? Or would you argue back and fight for his ability to be let out on the field? The kid didn't murder anyone. He didn't rob a bank.
Tuzigoot is right. What he means, is that high school is high school; whether you know it or not, someone will always be poundin' away or lighting up at a gathering or a get-together.
First of all, I've never mentioned this player's name. But all the major papers have, so maybe you should take your issue up with them. And no, I don't take any joy - sick or otherwise - in discussing the issue. I just know it's a big, big problem and sometimes it takes something happening to someone that everybody knows (or at least knows of) to bring the issue to the forefront. I think it's important that it be discussed, not so much as it applies to this particular player, but as it applies to all of our players. I have a particular opinion, other people have their opinions - why is it bad to discuss it? Isn't that how we make changes in our society? You try to convince me that you're right and I do the same and hopefully we can come to some common ground eventually.
I already said that I didn't agree with the "this is what happened" posts by unnamed people - that's not right. But please tell me where I've made any unfair assumptions? I've kept my comments to the very general topic of athletic codes and how they should or should not be enforced.
I already said that I didn't agree with the "this is what happened" posts by unnamed people - that's not right. But please tell me where I've made any unfair assumptions? I've kept my comments to the very general topic of athletic codes and how they should or should not be enforced.
Oh and Tuzi - I missed your book burner reference. Not quite sure where you're going with that one.
quote:Originally posted by mythreesons:
Oh and Tuzi - I missed your book burner reference. Not quite sure where you're going with that one.
Ofcourse I was referring to myself. The real words that I was looking for were that I'm not holier-than-thou, i.e. exhibiting an attitude of superior virtue; self-righteous piousness.
I fixed it up. Not sure how I associated book burner with holier-than-thou.