My sons loved high school ball. I think the premise is that you don't HAVE to play high school ball to get to college. Not doing away with high school ball.
The realization I have come to is that eventually high school ball will be like little league. There are places where it is great and everyone wants to play. They have good fields, good coaches, and the players get better. Other places, little league is terrible, and the better players jump to travel ball early and get good fields, good coaches, and good learning.
I believe the day will come when many players skip high school ball to play travel ball from March on just like the younger ages are doing with little league. The problem is those parents and players will be blasted for downing high school like some are for downing little league. High school is great some places but others it is terrible and a waste of the players time.
I must be really naive.
I would have to think that a situation would have to be pretty abusive for my son to do something baseball related and have it be a waste of his time. Certainly in most cases there has to be something they can get out of it.
I would have to think that a situation would have to be pretty abusive for my son to do something baseball related and have it be a waste of his time. Certainly in most cases there has to be something they can get out of it.
I know that my son enjoyed the commradarie of growing and playing baseball with his childhood buddies. Enjoying the highs of winning, and the lows of losing. And in each situation learning how to incorporate each into becoming a better team while also learning valuable life lessons of remaining humble and encouraging each other to not give up.
Honestly, on the high school field is where I got to enjoy watching my son blossom into a young man, a team leader, and a great friend when some of his teammates were removed from the team because of foolishness.
JMHO
YGD
Honestly, on the high school field is where I got to enjoy watching my son blossom into a young man, a team leader, and a great friend when some of his teammates were removed from the team because of foolishness.
JMHO
YGD
a few thoughts here---high school baseball is not the same in every part of the country---hs baseball to me is part of growing up--- representing your town and your hs is part ofbeing a teenager
I'm just worried about this trend precluding those that don't have the financial means or parental support to play travel ball. It is possible to play HS ball for free in many cases, but travel ball becomes a very expensive venture. I don't want baseball to become strictly a middle/upper class sport.
My son will enter the "elite" scene this coming summer for some exposure. But, he would never consider NOT playing HS ball. He has a lot of fun playing with his friends and repping his school. The HS program is by far not a top program and does not have the best coaching staff...but it is still fun and competitive.
HS baseball is important to the HS team, you are playing for your team and your school not for your self or to be recruited.
You go to a showcase for that
You go to a showcase for that
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
I really think the issue can be one of priorities, values and goals.
The title of the article is playing HS is no longer "vital" for college scholarship seekers.
Certainly, if the college scholarship is the main reason/focus for playing baseball for a teenage young man, the point of the article, as we all know, is true.
However, it should also be pointed out there isn't any real information on whether the pathway of not playing in HS can/will prove to be successful when the player is in college. What remains to be seen is how this young man and others like him do under in the college programs which very often focus on team first.
With that said, two recent local developments present, for me at least, the importance of HS baseball during that critical period of development for teenagers, on and off the field.
One was a Q&A done by Troy Tulowitzki. When asked the favorite and most important aspect of baseball in his life, he responded, to the effect MVP's are great, HR's are great, the WS and all that stuff is memorable. For him, the most important aspect of baseball...his teammates, being with them and competing together as team. He then illustrated by describing a situation of a 33 year old who was being sent to AAA, sitting on bench in the Rockies clubhouse crying his eyes out thinking/worrying this could be the end. Tulowitzki sat down with him, discussed everything and described to and for the audience how nothing in baseball could be more important than his teammate and relationships, which began way back in HS.
The second aspect to add to the discussion relates to some postings on a local board about the death of a long time HS coach. For me, this post sort of says it all in appreciating the distinctions of why HS baseball can be so important and the college scholarship, while nice, is often only a small aspect of the entire picture:
"I'd like to share something with everyone about Chuck Camuso. I played for Coach Camuso at Sunnyvale High 1975 through 1978. It was my junior year and my high school sweetheart that I was head over heels in love with had just told me that it was time to move on. It hit me VERY hard and I was privately having a good cry behind one of the far buildings on campus. Somehow Mr. Camuso got wind of this and right in the middle of his P.E. class he ran to the faculty room and found someone to watch his class while he ran to the totally opposite side of the school and hunted me down. He came up and sat down on the ground next to me and talked to me about life and love and heart ache and surviving the daily grind.... and of course about the love of the game. He sat there and talked with me for at least an hour. When we got done, life didn't seem all that bad again. He even walked with me to my next class and talked the teacher into marking my tardy as excused. The things he said to me that day changed my life forever. He could have just said "oh he'll get over it" and gone about his business. Just the fact that he cared enough to come find me made an impression upon my soul."
The title of the article is playing HS is no longer "vital" for college scholarship seekers.
Certainly, if the college scholarship is the main reason/focus for playing baseball for a teenage young man, the point of the article, as we all know, is true.
However, it should also be pointed out there isn't any real information on whether the pathway of not playing in HS can/will prove to be successful when the player is in college. What remains to be seen is how this young man and others like him do under in the college programs which very often focus on team first.
With that said, two recent local developments present, for me at least, the importance of HS baseball during that critical period of development for teenagers, on and off the field.
One was a Q&A done by Troy Tulowitzki. When asked the favorite and most important aspect of baseball in his life, he responded, to the effect MVP's are great, HR's are great, the WS and all that stuff is memorable. For him, the most important aspect of baseball...his teammates, being with them and competing together as team. He then illustrated by describing a situation of a 33 year old who was being sent to AAA, sitting on bench in the Rockies clubhouse crying his eyes out thinking/worrying this could be the end. Tulowitzki sat down with him, discussed everything and described to and for the audience how nothing in baseball could be more important than his teammate and relationships, which began way back in HS.
The second aspect to add to the discussion relates to some postings on a local board about the death of a long time HS coach. For me, this post sort of says it all in appreciating the distinctions of why HS baseball can be so important and the college scholarship, while nice, is often only a small aspect of the entire picture:
"I'd like to share something with everyone about Chuck Camuso. I played for Coach Camuso at Sunnyvale High 1975 through 1978. It was my junior year and my high school sweetheart that I was head over heels in love with had just told me that it was time to move on. It hit me VERY hard and I was privately having a good cry behind one of the far buildings on campus. Somehow Mr. Camuso got wind of this and right in the middle of his P.E. class he ran to the faculty room and found someone to watch his class while he ran to the totally opposite side of the school and hunted me down. He came up and sat down on the ground next to me and talked to me about life and love and heart ache and surviving the daily grind.... and of course about the love of the game. He sat there and talked with me for at least an hour. When we got done, life didn't seem all that bad again. He even walked with me to my next class and talked the teacher into marking my tardy as excused. The things he said to me that day changed my life forever. He could have just said "oh he'll get over it" and gone about his business. Just the fact that he cared enough to come find me made an impression upon my soul."
quote:I like HS baseball. I like what it is supposed to represent. I always will. But I don’t think it should have to be the means to an end as far as playing in college if the situation warrants it.
I agree with that shortnquick. I don't think it needs to be the means to an end either...but I fear a progression where HS baseball is reduced to irrelevant by parents trying to take total control of junior's baseball career. I believe HS sports are very important for development of a player (athletically, academically and emotionally). I also believe HS sports are very important to communities. People wanna say, "Kevin Youkilis played at the same HS as me," or "I remember when Troy Tulowitzki played at the HS just across the road."
Sense of community pride. A place to go back too. I was at a banquet a couple of weeks ago where Tulo spoke...from the heart. His HS program was "ok," better when he played there, not too good overall. First, he thanked every coach in the room (nearly all area HS coaches) for how much they had helped him. Then he spoke about how important his hometown, his community was to him...how they made him what he has become and how he retreats to them for strength and grounding. His wife and parents were there...imagine that! He was receiving a very small award at that banquet compared to the biggies that he has received elsewhere...just a little plaque with a clock on it saying 'County MLB Player of the Year.' He pledged to return every single year they'd be willing to give it to him again. It was his third trip to that banquet for that little clock and plaque "award."
We don't wanna lose that. Trends in the direction of the article threaten that. Its not for me. I hope it remains an exception and I hope those college coaches who told you they welcomed it were only saying something they thought you'd wanna hear rather than something they truly felt. I'll be truthful with you and tell you that through 2 sons' recruitment by a wide range of colleges who played in HS programs at opposite ends of the spectrum (great and bad) as well as elite summer teams, I've never heard any college coach wish for a trend towards less importance on HS baseball.
Seeing that Tanner Rahier’s name is mentioned in the article as someone who doesn’t need high school to get a scholarship begs for some questions. What did Tanner Rahier need? Is it to play in some other league during the High School season?
First of all, Tanner is a player we like very much. I like everything about him and he has outstanding talent. Before this season even starts, he is a definite early round draft candidate. He would be a draft prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Was it because of high school ball? Was it because he plays in something designed to replace High School ball? I think the answer to both questions is a resounding NO. Did he become a top prospect because of what happened over the last few summers? Yes it is very obvious.
We have seen Tanner at 18 events since he was 14 years old (2008), all during the summer and fall. We selected him to play in the PG All American Game (formerly Aflac game) last summer. There is not a scout in America that doesn’t know Tanner Rahier and most MLB Scouting Directors have seen him play. Every major college coach in the country knows who he is and how talented he is. He signed early with San Diego. People should ask the recruiters at San Diego where they found Tanner. Was it in high school? Was it in some other alternate spring league? I think the story itself says San Diego first got serious on Tanner at the WWBA in Jupiter Florida.
Tanner played summer ball on a top high profile summer team that played against the best competition in the country from coast to coast.
Last year he was invited to attend the PG National Showcase held in Ft Myers, Florida. He has played on National Television. He has been ranked among the top players in the country. He was invited to the Area Codes. He is a power hitting shortstop that can throw 93 on the mound and 93 across the infield. He ran a 6.62, 60 yard. He has great makeup. He has been on the prospect map for a long time now.
Here is his profile… Tanner Rahier
I don’t know why he isn’t playing high school this spring. He is the only one that can answer that question. No one should cut him down for his decision, but he is a top prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Truth is, he is more important to the alternate league than the league is to him. He automatically brings talent and very serious scouting attention to the league. Obviously this makes the league more attractive to more players in the future.
All that said, we can’t blame the kids for doing what they think might be best. These top kids get pulled in many directions. Sometimes we are even involved in the pulling. However, never, not once, have we ever tried to pull a kid away from his high school.
I love high school baseball. To me, it is the purest form of baseball for players that age. We all know that there are big differences between high school programs. Some are lucky and have great coaches and mentors. Some get much more attention than others. But they all have a common thread of representing their school and community. The ability to play with childhood friends is hard to replace.
Every so often a bunch of us old codgers get together and swap lies over a few beers. Some played pro ball. several played college ball, some didn't play beyond high school. We’re all in our mid 60s and the thing we talk about the most is the old high school days. The memories from high school are ever lasting. We still talk about games, even plays, that happened nearly 50 years ago.
Bottom line… I know we (PG) do many things and we believe those things are very important and serve a purpose. But nothing we do can replace high school baseball. Nearly every USA born player who ever played in the Big Leagues has one thing in common… They played high school baseball. Same thing goes for nearly every college player. Nothing is perfect, but it seems high school baseball has worked just fine for most of the very best players. The summer and fall leave an opportunity for those who want more.
For the record, I am in favor of more baseball. The more the better! I like the idea of forming leagues for those cut from their high school team or those who just want to play a little. That is adding opportunities, adding more baseball. I’m against forming leagues to compete against or even trying to replace high school baseball. In the end, HS programs will start to drop baseball and save money once they see their top players leaving. That will be a very sad day for baseball, IMO.
Please don’t take anything I’ve said to be negative towards Tanner Rahier because I love that kid. He is an outstanding player, extremely talented, plays the game the right way, great makeup, great kid!
First of all, Tanner is a player we like very much. I like everything about him and he has outstanding talent. Before this season even starts, he is a definite early round draft candidate. He would be a draft prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Was it because of high school ball? Was it because he plays in something designed to replace High School ball? I think the answer to both questions is a resounding NO. Did he become a top prospect because of what happened over the last few summers? Yes it is very obvious.
We have seen Tanner at 18 events since he was 14 years old (2008), all during the summer and fall. We selected him to play in the PG All American Game (formerly Aflac game) last summer. There is not a scout in America that doesn’t know Tanner Rahier and most MLB Scouting Directors have seen him play. Every major college coach in the country knows who he is and how talented he is. He signed early with San Diego. People should ask the recruiters at San Diego where they found Tanner. Was it in high school? Was it in some other alternate spring league? I think the story itself says San Diego first got serious on Tanner at the WWBA in Jupiter Florida.
Tanner played summer ball on a top high profile summer team that played against the best competition in the country from coast to coast.
Last year he was invited to attend the PG National Showcase held in Ft Myers, Florida. He has played on National Television. He has been ranked among the top players in the country. He was invited to the Area Codes. He is a power hitting shortstop that can throw 93 on the mound and 93 across the infield. He ran a 6.62, 60 yard. He has great makeup. He has been on the prospect map for a long time now.
Here is his profile… Tanner Rahier
I don’t know why he isn’t playing high school this spring. He is the only one that can answer that question. No one should cut him down for his decision, but he is a top prospect no matter where he plays this spring. Truth is, he is more important to the alternate league than the league is to him. He automatically brings talent and very serious scouting attention to the league. Obviously this makes the league more attractive to more players in the future.
All that said, we can’t blame the kids for doing what they think might be best. These top kids get pulled in many directions. Sometimes we are even involved in the pulling. However, never, not once, have we ever tried to pull a kid away from his high school.
I love high school baseball. To me, it is the purest form of baseball for players that age. We all know that there are big differences between high school programs. Some are lucky and have great coaches and mentors. Some get much more attention than others. But they all have a common thread of representing their school and community. The ability to play with childhood friends is hard to replace.
Every so often a bunch of us old codgers get together and swap lies over a few beers. Some played pro ball. several played college ball, some didn't play beyond high school. We’re all in our mid 60s and the thing we talk about the most is the old high school days. The memories from high school are ever lasting. We still talk about games, even plays, that happened nearly 50 years ago.
Bottom line… I know we (PG) do many things and we believe those things are very important and serve a purpose. But nothing we do can replace high school baseball. Nearly every USA born player who ever played in the Big Leagues has one thing in common… They played high school baseball. Same thing goes for nearly every college player. Nothing is perfect, but it seems high school baseball has worked just fine for most of the very best players. The summer and fall leave an opportunity for those who want more.
For the record, I am in favor of more baseball. The more the better! I like the idea of forming leagues for those cut from their high school team or those who just want to play a little. That is adding opportunities, adding more baseball. I’m against forming leagues to compete against or even trying to replace high school baseball. In the end, HS programs will start to drop baseball and save money once they see their top players leaving. That will be a very sad day for baseball, IMO.
Please don’t take anything I’ve said to be negative towards Tanner Rahier because I love that kid. He is an outstanding player, extremely talented, plays the game the right way, great makeup, great kid!
Good Post PG, it was a great read!
You've got to respect his work ethic...chop chop
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
And yet my son loved his HS team and coaches and wouldn't have missed those years. He also loved his travel team so he really had the best of both worlds.
And he did have it great in HS- 2 coaches with world series rings that were great coaches and was one of 5 D1 signees that year. So yes he loved it as much or more than his travel team.
http://www.wreg.com/news/wreg-...y#tugs_story_display
Here is a link to a news story about a Coach who does not allow his players to play on the elite travel teams. Things like this are pushing kids away from High School baseball.
Here is a link to a news story about a Coach who does not allow his players to play on the elite travel teams. Things like this are pushing kids away from High School baseball.
quote:Originally posted by CaBB:
The kick ball sport tat shall remain nameless on this site s o c c e r has been doing this for awhile. In our area just this year the elite club teams prohibited their players from playing for their high schools. Most of the college recruiting seems to come from their club teams and I fear this will be the eventual outcome of high school baseball. If a player is a stud the travel teams do have scholarships for the kids.
In Texas it's the exact opposite. The University Interscholastic League (UIL) that oversees high school athletics in the State has banned kids who play club s****r from playing high school s****r. I hope they don't get the bright idea to do a similar thing for baseball...what a joke.
Actually I think the UIL rule only bans kids from playing club sports at the same time as they are playing high school sports. Meaning the seasons can not run concurrently.
And after talking to my friend I am not sure that is even true. His son plays the kickball and he said the major clubs in TX ban their kids from participating in HS kickball
And after talking to my friend I am not sure that is even true. His son plays the kickball and he said the major clubs in TX ban their kids from participating in HS kickball
The LA article centers on "alternative" club leagues during the H.S. baseball season, specific to California. What begins there generally spreads east, unfortunately. In our area though, to date, travel and club leagues have not been formed that compete directly against H.S. baseball because it (H.S. Baseball) is so strong here. In other areas of the country I am sure it could be different.
However, it is true that you can be seen without ever playing a H.S. game. My son's first recruitment was following a Winter Showcase prior to his Junior year. He had not yet played a H.S. varsity game! He was "seen" and recruited from Summer Travel play that following summer. So certainly, you don't have to play H.S. ball and his experience occurred some five years ago.
That being said, his best memories by far, center on his H.S. State Championship win and those Varsity years playing for his school team with his childhood friends!
The summer teams, whether they were before, during or after H.S. (now it's College Summer ball), were always more about personal exposure and or experience (reps). High School was for the team and for the schools reputation and for youthful GLORY..
However, it is true that you can be seen without ever playing a H.S. game. My son's first recruitment was following a Winter Showcase prior to his Junior year. He had not yet played a H.S. varsity game! He was "seen" and recruited from Summer Travel play that following summer. So certainly, you don't have to play H.S. ball and his experience occurred some five years ago.
That being said, his best memories by far, center on his H.S. State Championship win and those Varsity years playing for his school team with his childhood friends!
The summer teams, whether they were before, during or after H.S. (now it's College Summer ball), were always more about personal exposure and or experience (reps). High School was for the team and for the schools reputation and for youthful GLORY..
Just in case no one noticed, the originator of this thread appears to run the league that Tanner plays in.
quote:Originally posted by justbaseball:
Just in case no one noticed, the originator of this thread appears to run the league that Tanner plays in.
And........So What...
He is probably proud of the product he is putting out, as he should be.