Late Bloomer Examples

Hi Drewseven, 

This topic, when discussing in broad terms, can take off in dozens of different directions and I am guessing you have a specific situation you are more curious about than others.  So, if that guess is correct, I suggest you get a bit more specific with your question.  Are you curious about a HS player who is still physically immature?  A grade school player who is middle-of-the-pack or particularly big?, etc.

What is a late bloomer? Are you talking talent or physical? My son was a very talented lead off hitter at 5'2" in 13u USSSA majors when he was still eligible to play LL. When he was the best JV player as a freshman at 5'11" 135  he was still a late bloomer. It all came together when talent hit blooming at 6' 160. He still grew to be 6'2" 195 and got even better.

Some players talent doesn't show until they grow. Others you see the talent and patiently wait for them to grow.

cabbagedad posted:

Hi Drewseven, 

This topic, when discussing in broad terms, can take off in dozens of different directions and I am guessing you have a specific situation you are more curious about than others.  So, if that guess is correct, I suggest you get a bit more specific with your question.  Are you curious about a HS player who is still physically immature?  A grade school player who is middle-of-the-pack or particularly big?, etc.

Hey Cabbagedad,

Good question. Nothing specific in terms of a personal situation. 

I gave the example of PGStaff's experience with his son, which is a good one. I think these types of threads are helpful. Especially for parents going through the journey with their kid(s) for the first time. I know I do a lot of reading, but very little posting. A lot of great wisdom shared on this board.

Maybe too broad of a subject. Just throwing this topic out there and seeing where it goes.

RJM posted:

What is a late bloomer? Are you talking talent or physical? My son was a very talented lead off hitter at 5'2" in 13u USSSA majors when he was still eligible to play LL. When he was the best JV player as a freshman at 5'11" 135  he was still a late bloomer. It all came together when talent hit blooming at 6' 160. He still grew to be 6'2" 195 and got even better.

Some players talent doesn't show until they grow. Others you see the talent and patiently wait for them to grow.

Hey RJM. I guess late developer would be a better way to phrase it. Getting a little more specific, how common is it for kids to be average on the "small" field, for example, but develop into a great player on the big field once more mature? Is this phenomena rare, or does it happen more often than we may think?

Were most great players, also "great" as young kids (10-13)? 

The funnel's always getting smaller, so it's very likely that good players at any level were also good players at previous levels. Likewise, it will always be easier to find guys who flamed out at some level (for whatever reasons) than it will be to find unexpected breakouts.

Once you get to HS ball and beyond, where the vast majority of players have reached a substantial portion of their peak physical development this is likely even more true.  Prior to that physical development peak, things are probably more variable and it's generally more difficult to project future outcomes.

One other confounding factor, at the highest levels everyone's already an enormous outlier, and even otherwise little things can end up making a difference.

Most of the position player exceptions I have seen emerge have off-the-charts work ethic and passion for the game or for athletic success. (But they also have at least above average abilities to start with)

I think pitching is an area where there is more likelihood for exception for a variety of reasons. 

A common issue is that many HS players are not near fully developed physically by their junior, or sometimes even senior, year of HS so they don't get serious looks from D1 programs that recruit earlier. 

Drewseven posted:

RJM posted:

What is a late bloomer? Are you talking talent or physical? My son was a very talented lead off hitter at 5'2" in 13u USSSA majors when he was still eligible to play LL. When he was the best JV player as a freshman at 5'11" 135  he was still a late bloomer. It all came together when talent hit blooming at 6' 160. He still grew to be 6'2" 195 and got even better.

Some players talent doesn't show until they grow. Others you see the talent and patiently wait for them to grow.

Hey RJM. I guess late developer would be a better way to phrase it. Getting a little more specific, how common is it for kids to be average on the "small" field, for example, but develop into a great player on the big field once more mature? Is this phenomena rare, or does it happen more often than we may think?

Were most great players, also "great" as young kids (10-13)? 

Most of the best players in high school were the best players from 10-13. But a lot of the best kids from 10-13 don't become  high school players. 

Some of the best 10-13 year olds have peaked early. I've seen 10-13yo man children dominate at age groups and not make the high school team. I've seen other 10-13yos who had a lot of early training but got passed as others physically developed and learned the game.

My son played on a very successful 12yo LL all star team. Only five became high school baseball players. All twelve were high school athletes. But at 12yo seven of them could out muscle and/or out run the smaller field versus legit baseball skills. Once on the 60/90 their skills, or lack of them they were exposed.

BBCOR seems to be an equalizer, to a degree.   I've seen 13U/14U kids who can launch balls well out of the infield (or to the wall) on 60/90 fields with super hot bats, who then struggle with BBCOR at 15U or in high school

Of course some peak late regarding size but I think what you usually can see early is natural athleticism. Those natural athletes will usually overtake the guys who just dominate because of pure size or also early technical Polish. 

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

I have a late bloomer.... Although he made the middle school team as a 6th grader, he was a bench player for all 3 years of middle school ball.  In HS, he was a starter on JV as a freshman and become a V starter in his sophomore year.  As the years clicked away, he developed into a baseball player that has signed to play college baseball next year but that came late for him.  While he was a good HS baseball player, he still didn't really stand out on the baseball field until the summer prior to his senior year. Those he began his baseball journey with 7-8 years ago have hung up their cleats.  I'm glad he didn't peak at 12 or 13.  

There is often a juggling of who the "best players" are from 12U to 17U, no doubt.  While early promise is often fulfilled, that's not always true.  It's like the saying, "Hard work beats talent when talent fails to work hard."  As the years go by, the burning desire to grind and work hard really does count for a lot.  

I've wondered if sometimes the early success of the kids who are bigger and stronger at young age, can lead to a less-than-stellar work ethic.  Maybe at 13U, they didn't have to work as hard and still had lots of success and kudos, so they sort of lost interest when it got harder and more competitive later.  

I can also think of a couple of examples of big kids who hadn't quite grown into their bodies in middle school and weren't as nimble as the pre-growth-spurt MIF who could do everything.  Later, the big kid who sticks with it can really shine.  

Obviously, there are guys who are good from Day One and they work hard and continually have success, no question.  Still, it's worth noting that everyone's on their own timetable and there are changes in the lineup as the years go by.  IMO, longterm commitment, good attitude and work ethic count for a tremendous amount in baseball -- and that can lead to those "late bloomers." 

While I believe most talented 12 year olds become talented 18 year olds, the late bloomer still happens a lot.  For many it happens at 17 or 18, for others it happens in college. It has even happned in professional baseball for a few. See Mike Piazza!

The two areas where late blooming happens the most are in pitching and hitting/power.  But sometimes it involves things like coordination.  

I have seen things that amaze me.  Average teenagers making it to the Big Leagues.  So over the years, I've learned that damn near anything is possible.  You simply can't see the heart and drive that certain kids possess.  

Someone once told me the only reason I say that is so more kids go to showcases and spend money.  Truth is below average players should never spend money going to showcases.  There is no reason to showcase unless you have something to showcase IMO.  There are plenty of good players to keep us in business.  We can't help anyone that lacks talent.  

That said, I do believe in miracles.  You just can't predict them!

PGStaff posted:

While I believe most talented 12 year olds become talented 18 year olds, the late bloomer still happens a lot.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I think it's the other way around.  Most (not all) talented 18 year old baseball players, were talented 12 year old baseball players.  Most (that is, >50%, IME) talented 12 year old baseball players aren't 18 year old baseball players of any kind.  They move on to other sports (LAX and, of all things, rugby, for a number of kids I knew personally), or other things entirely.

phillyinNJ posted:

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

Like Jose Altuve?  don't get me wrong anything else being equal size is an advantage but if you can play and you are a top notch athlete you will play. 

Most guys who did not make it at 5"8 wouldn't have Made it at 6"2 either. 

Dominik85 posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

Like Jose Altuve?  don't get me wrong anything else being equal size is an advantage but if you can play and you are a top notch athlete you will play. 

Most guys who did not make it at 5"8 wouldn't have Made it at 6"2 either. 

Short players get a lot less chances. They better deliver. I read a story about Jimmy Rollins being scouted. The scout lied about his size. He didn't believe the Phillies would send a cross checker if he told the truth. The cross checker was ticked when he showed up. But he stayed to watch. He then lied about Rollins' size to the head of scouting so the Phillies would draft him.

I'm not a Phillies fan. But living in the area for eighteen years I saw plenty of Phillies games. If you saw Rollins swing the bat he thought he was 6'2".

Dominik85 posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

Like Jose Altuve?  don't get me wrong anything else being equal size is an advantage but if you can play and you are a top notch athlete you will play. 

Most guys who did not make it at 5"8 wouldn't have Made it at 6"2 either. 

There are a finite number of roster spots.  There are a lot more talented players than available Major League jobs so if you have  two equally talented players and only 1 roster spot then which one gets it?  Assuming everything including character being equal, 99 percent of the time it will be the 6'2" player over the 5'8" player.  The 5'8" player has to be better than the 6'2" player and not just a little better

RJM posted:

Some of the best 10-13 year olds have peaked early. I've seen 10-13yo man children dominate at age groups and not make the high school team. I've seen other 10-13yos who had a lot of early training but got passed as others physically developed and learned the game.

Man, the line of thinking that "you either are or you aren't", regardless of how hard you work early on, as if we are on a predefined path in the game, is just depressing. I get what you're saying though.

I guess this is why it is so refreshing hearing about late developers making it in this game. Having the belief/hope that hard work CAN (potentially) make up for some of a person's natural ability shortcomings, is what allows one to keep grinding. Even if results today don't align with the hard work presently put in.

Anyway, I think it is a very interesting topic.  I appreciate all those who have commented.

PGStaff posted:

The two areas where late blooming happens the most are in pitching and hitting/power.  But sometimes it involves things like coordination.  

I have seen things that amaze me.  Average teenagers making it to the Big Leagues.  So over the years, I've learned that damn near anything is possible.  You simply can't see the heart and drive that certain kids possess. 

I have actually shared your story on your son's journey, with several other baseball parents near me. One of the parents was a fantastic college pitcher, but his son shows very little athletic ability. At least as a 10 year old. Helps give a little perspective to parents going through the journey for the first time.

A friend of mine was a first team All American pitcher at South Carolina. He also played hoops the first two years. He made it to AAA.

His son was on my LL team. It's how I became friends with the dad. The kid didn't develop into a high school player. One day my friend joked, "I must have polluted the hell out of the family gene pool with my first wife."

Add: The dad was 5'6" as a high school freshman. He was 6'2" when he graduated. He grew to 6'4" in college.

My son was definitely a late bloomer. He didn't play Varsity HS baseball until his junior year. He still has mostly peach fuzz on his face. lol. He got the opportunity to compete against Texas Tech this past season. Here is the youtube link.      

https://youtu.be/jAkcVbaxIoY

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I still haven't learned how to reply with quotes, but what i am attempting to say is it is a lot easier to have the physical aspect (yes i do believe their is one) to baseball when you are 6"2 rather than 5"8...it's just a fact.  could my son still play if he was 5"8?  maybe...would he have the tangibles he currently has if in fact he was not 6"1 (and still growing)?...probably not.  There are the outliers yes...altuve, rollins, etc...but it is definitely not the norm.  I think PG Staff or someone else mentioned the average ball player was 6"1 or 2...it is this size for a reason i would think.

phillyinNJ posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

Like Jose Altuve?  don't get me wrong anything else being equal size is an advantage but if you can play and you are a top notch athlete you will play. 

Most guys who did not make it at 5"8 wouldn't have Made it at 6"2 either. 

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I still haven't learned how to reply with quotes, but what i am attempting to say is it is a lot easier to have the physical aspect (yes i do believe their is one) to baseball when you are 6"2 rather than 5"8...it's just a fact.  could my son still play if he was 5"8?  maybe...would he have the tangibles he currently has if in fact he was not 6"1 (and still growing)?...probably not.  There are the outliers yes...altuve, rollins, etc...but it is definitely not the norm.  I think PG Staff or someone else mentioned the average ball player was 6"1 or 2...it is this size for a reason i would think.

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RJM posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

phillyinNJ posted:

or those natural athletes at 5'5 remain 5'5 and become groundhog hunters for the remaining of their baseball careers.

Like Jose Altuve?  don't get me wrong anything else being equal size is an advantage but if you can play and you are a top notch athlete you will play. 

Most guys who did not make it at 5"8 wouldn't have Made it at 6"2 either. 

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I still haven't learned how to reply with quotes, but what i am attempting to say is it is a lot easier to have the physical aspect (yes i do believe their is one) to baseball when you are 6"2 rather than 5"8...it's just a fact.  could my son still play if he was 5"8?  maybe...would he have the tangibles he currently has if in fact he was not 6"1 (and still growing)?...probably not.  There are the outliers yes...altuve, rollins, etc...but it is definitely not the norm.  I think PG Staff or someone else mentioned the average ball player was 6"1 or 2...it is this size for a reason i would think.

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2) Reply With Quote

Wow...that was easy.  Thanks RJM

One of the saddest things I have seen in 14u is a kid who's brain knows what to do with the ball, but the kids body is still so small he just can't compete at the level he wants to.  There is no way his tiny body can throw the 250ft from left field to home plate without a bounce...he just physically can't, and while his pitching is accurate it is 15-20mph slower than most on the team.  Worse, his dad is 6'3 and mom is 5'10...he just hasn't grown yet.  I hope to goodness he is one of these late bloomers we are speaking of because the kid has heart!

CaCO3Girl posted:

One of the saddest things I have seen in 14u is a kid who's brain knows what to do with the ball, but the kids body is still so small he just can't compete at the level he wants to.  There is no way his tiny body can throw the 250ft from left field to home plate without a bounce...he just physically can't, and while his pitching is accurate it is 15-20mph slower than most on the team.  Worse, his dad is 6'3 and mom is 5'10...he just hasn't grown yet.  I hope to goodness he is one of these late bloomers we are speaking of because the kid has heart!

Me too.  My heart goes out to those kids.

BTW, George Springer was a late-bloomer (physically):

"As a kid, I was tiny," Springer told The Post Monday at Roger Dean Stadium. “I didn’t start growing until my junior year of high school.’’

“Freshman year I was 4-10, 87 pounds,’’ Springer said with a smile. “But I always had the same makeup. I thought I was 6-5, 250.’

Been debating if I wanted to get involved in this thread...  But I notice a few people commented on the fact the bigger kid can often be a late bloomer. Not going to lie that is my hope for my son!  He has been the best and most consistent pitcher we have throughout the year. Throws strikes and locates very well with a couple two seemers, curve and change. Keeps hitters well off balance. Maybe most impressive stat he has given up one extra base hit, a double, through nine tournaments and he leads the team in innings pitched. Second half of the season a kid we expected to be the ace has come around after a rough start. They are now 1 & 1A   But...  Although my son is 6'3" at 14 and he works out regularly there is no muscle definition whatsoever. He simply does not have his big boy muscles yet. I see some of the other freshmen at summer workouts and they are already ripped. So is he a late developer because his velocity for a big kid is underwhelming?  Or will he just be a nice high school pitcher with an array of pitches he throws for strikes and maybe head off to a D3 of lesser note someday just so he can play the game four more years?  I am asking myself that a lot these days. And I really don't have the answer. I guess only time will tell. 

My son was late bloomer and I think a pretty inspiring story for others. He always had the skill and athleticism, but the size and strength came late. He played in a local league until he was 11. Made All-Stars every year, but usually on a secondary team. He played on a travel team at 11/12 with guys from that local league. He made the middle school team and was solid as a pitcher and outfielder.   A core of the guys from his travel team left to form their own team at 13 and my son was not invited. That was a bit tough for him. As a rising 9^th grader, he made the Junior Legion team and mostly sat on the bench. He was about 5’2” 90 lbs. Occasionally, they would bring him in to pitch an inning or two. He had a great attitude in the dugout and the coaches loved him.

He made JV as a freshman and had a pretty good year. Coach told us he almost cut him due to his size, even though he saw the skill was there. He played another summer of Junior Legion, where he did a little more on the mound. Still not a go to guy, but he was getting more innings. Sophomore year of high school the strength started to come. Grew to maybe 5’6” 125 lbs. Velocity was getting close to 80 MPH and he started to be able to hit the ball hard enough to get through gaps. He was starting to emerge as one of the key contributors on that JV team. Played Junior Legion for a third summer and was very good that summer. Velocity up to 81-83 MPH and just pitched really well.

Junior year of high school, based on input from Junior Legion coach, he was a starter on the mound from week 1. Was throwing low to mid-80s and had a very good breaking ball. He went 6-2 that year with a sub 2 ERA. He started to get a few looks from mid-majors and D2 schools. Was all-state as a senior and MVP of his high school conference. He ended up walking on to a strong D1 school (PWO). He was 5’10” 145 lbs going into college. Velocity was 86-88 MPH on the mound. Pitched sparing as a situational reliever his first 2 years, including a regional appearance and a trip to the CWS (did not get into a CWS game).

He had a very good Junior year and we thought he even might get drafted. He did not, but he did earn a scholarship for his senior year. He just finished up a strong senior year and was drafted in the top 15 rounds. Signing bonus was enough to pay off student loans.

Now he is starting all over.  Just started his professional career in Single A (short season).

What a great story Masterofnone, thank you soooo much for sharing!

That is a great story...congrats to your son!!  Wish him ALL the best!!!