LLWS, Here We Go Again

quote:

I tuned in and caught the Japan/Mexico game...GREAT game. Those kids can play. The double play by Mexico in the top of the 6th was incredible.

That was a great game as both teams are talented. Mexico just looked to have a little more firepower, and made some defensive plays when needed.

Some of those parents are ......interesting. They've dressed like Halloween in Williamsport during the LLWS.

quote:

Originally posted by cf:
Everyone can bash LLWS tournament all they want, but that run was so much fun for the kids, families and community. Being involved in a tournament that you don't pay to get into and are playing with you friends that you have played with since tball is priceless!

It is little boys having the time of their life - don't over analyze it!

+1

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Originally posted by Low Finish: …As for the LLWS, I hate watching it. …

I understand your reasons, but can’t you understand that kids are NOT miniature adults, and shouldn’t be expected to perform like MLB players! Heck, using your logic, you must not watch a lot of HS or college games either, because for sure all the things you seem to hate take place there as well. And let’s not forget that not all ML swings are picture perfect, nor are all ML players the same size and shape.

If I have the opportunity to watch a LLWS game or a MLB game not involving my favorite team, the LLWS game will get my viewing time. And unless there’s a lot of lying going on, there are plenty of MLB players and coaches who share my opinion. Its just kids having fun playing, and should be enjoyed as such.

I will admit though, that the gun readings and the constant comparison to MLB velocities serves no productive purpose, and I wish they’d eliminate them.

Is it "just kids having fun playing" or the original version of "reality TV"?

quote:

Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:

quote:

Originally posted by Low Finish: …As for the LLWS, I hate watching it. …

I understand your reasons, but can’t you understand that kids are NOT miniature adults, and shouldn’t be expected to perform like MLB players! Heck, using your logic, you must not watch a lot of HS or college games either, because for sure all the things you seem to hate take place there as well. And let’s not forget that not all ML swings are picture perfect, nor are all ML players the same size and shape.

If I have the opportunity to watch a LLWS game or a MLB game not involving my favorite team, the LLWS game will get my viewing time. And unless there’s a lot of lying going on, there are plenty of MLB players and coaches who share my opinion. Its just kids having fun playing, and should be enjoyed as such.

I will admit though, that the gun readings and the constant comparison to MLB velocities serves no productive purpose, and I wish they’d eliminate them.

I don't watch many HS games (mainly because the team is horrible). College games I like more, mainly because of the lack of pathetic errors and the apparent professionalism of the players.

I don't care about the radar gun readings. They serve no positive purpose. Little League will be (and always has been) unfair. It is unfair because of the grouping of kids on their chronological, rather than biological ages.

Although Kentucky was eliminated Griffin Mclarty is my favorite player this summer.I love the way he competes for such a young man, how he smiles and doesnt get upset with his teamates.He was a class act for such a young man, and very talented.

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I don't care about the radar gun readings. They serve no positive purpose. Little League will be (and always has been) unfair. It is unfair because of the grouping of kids on their chronological, rather than biological ages.

It's not that LL is unfair but rather that they move the age cutoff up from August to May allowing for LL to beconme a 13U tournament as opposed to a 11-12 yr old tournament had the cutoff date been moved back to December instead. While I get that LL is a big deal for these kids and it represents what is a true world series, having 13 yr olds play on a pinball machine not exactly great baseball. It would be much better for the game itself if LL and the other organizations move back the cutoff age to prevent 13 yr olds to play on 60' diamonds. This game should be exclusive to the top 11-12 yr olds, not who can find the biggest 13 yr olds that can make the cutoff. Sure, you'll get some more developed 12 yr olds but it's better than piling on with even bigger 13's.

LL and the other orgs have to move the cut date backwards. There's no other way around it. Going back to less trampolined bats is a step in the right direction but more needs to be done to justify these kids playing on a 60' diamond.

I remember when they made the age change. The original problem was with kids who had birthdays in June and July. Local leagues were usually done by the end of June before some kids turned 12. So they never really had the chance to play as 12-year olds.

Unfortunately, it created a whole other problem.

quote:

Although Kentucky was eliminated Griffin Mclarty is my favorite player this summer.I love the way he competes for such a young man, how he smiles and doesnt get upset with his teamates.He was a class act for such a young man, and very talented.

fanofgame, Thanks for the kind words...Griffin is my nephew and we are very proud of him and all his teammates for their accomplishments this year on and off the field. Coach Brad Bates has done a wonderful job with all the boys, and it was enjoyable to watch the growth of the team over the past couple years.

I've paid more attention to the LLWS than ever this year since Griffin was playing in it, and have enjoyed all the games I've watched so far, although I do agree some of the called strikes are ridiculous (for ALL teams...)

One of the highlights for me was when ESPN interviewed the KY Catcher Jackson Mason after the PA game, and he said "I've always wanted to impress that many people, and I think I did."

Congratulations to the Players and Coaches from North Oldham Little League, and to all the other LLWS competitors!

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quote:
I don't care about the radar gun readings. They serve no positive purpose. Little League will be (and always has been) unfair. It is unfair because of the grouping of kids on their chronological, rather than biological ages.

Last time I checked life is not fair.....

Is the minimum age for a kid to pitch in LL 8, or 9?

I dunno BOF, it seems to me that checking the kids' biological age monthly and moving the kids between age groups on a monthly basis makes perfect sense.

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Originally posted by VaRHPmom:
I remember when they made the age change. The original problem was with kids who had birthdays in June and July. Local leagues were usually done by the end of June before some kids turned 12. So they never really had the chance to play as 12-year olds.

Unfortunately, it created a whole other problem.

The kids who didn't turn 12 yet would be eligible for the tournament the following year and even if they were only 11 and good enough, they still could've made the team depending on how the local leagues pick their all-stars.. I don't get the logic changing the cut date for that reason. Had they moved the date back to Dec 31, only 12 and under would be age eligible for the tournament and for the most part, kids would be playing in divisions with their classmates. Moving the date back makes the most sense, not up to May.

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Originally posted by CADad:
I dunno BOF, it seems to me that checking the kids' biological age monthly and moving the kids between age groups on a monthly basis makes perfect sense.

Doing it monthly would be stupidity. Checking it (or having it checked by a doctor) when the kid registers would be ideal. It shouldn't happen more than twice a year.

LF,
Duh! But guess what kids make big time growth leaps over short time periods.

I guess it is a lot easier to pay a doctor to certify that a kid is younger biologically than they really are than to falsify a birth certificate. That should work out just great. Can't wait to see 16yo playing on 60' bases.

quote:

Originally posted by biggerpapi:
I watched one batter today.

Curveball
Curveball
Curveball
Curveball


I'm done.

There not gonna pitch past 16 like that.
Nuff said

Please Mr Umpire if a gb rolls up the 3rd baseline and bounces off the bag thats a pretty good indication of a fair ball.

quote:

Please Mr Umpire if a gb rolls up the 3rd baseline and bounces off the bag thats a pretty good indication of a fair ball.

No sh it!!!

Lol.

Just wait til they put a 'safe base' at third, too

You got 40k in fans at the game. National TV on ESPN. Its big time folks. Its the LLWS. And then you have these umpires calling the games that would get booted out of a local rec league if they made these calls. Awesome! At least the strike zones are consistent. Lol

Williamsport puts in the contract that they have the right to approve/disapprove of all announcers.

One thing they will not countenance is anyone who doesn't sing from the hymnal.

But every time you hear them repeat about how wonderful the umps are and that they are all volunteers who work for free, I keep thinking that sooner or later someone is just not going to be able to stop themself from saying, "And sometimes you get what you pay for!"

I keep thinking John Kruk is the loose cannon who'll let that slip out one night. I can't wait.

It is a constant blot on this event that the umpires are just awful, awful, awful, year after year. The strike zone alone is just atrocious game after game, making much of the games' outcomes random. Then to see some of these blown calls out in the field, too, it's just embarrassing.

Come on, Little League, you can afford to pay to bring in real umpires!

Amen.

quote:

fanofgame, Thanks for the kind words...Griffin is my nephew and we are very proud of him and all his teammates for their accomplishments this year on and off the field. Coach Brad Bates has done a wonderful job with all the boys, and it was enjoyable to watch the growth of the team over the past couple years.

Your welcome.he was a joy to watch. Nice player.I loved his attitude, just a real good boy.

Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

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Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

a little low for you?

What about one umpire calling foul and the other - who really has the call, calling fair? I also don't like instant replay being used so much.

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Originally posted by 55mom:

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

a little low for you?

What about one umpire calling foul and the other - who really has the call, calling fair? I also don't like instant replay being used so much.

That was the third time that double call was made so far this WS.

We've got the world's best youth players who competed to get to this level. Why can't LL give some consideration to providing at least slightly comparable umpires?

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We've got the world's best youth players who competed to get to this level

You really don't think the world's best youth players play LL do you? That switch happened years ago. Your select teams playing AAU, USSSA, SS, etc are far better....and your better umps are there too.

Quite honestly, I do not work 11-12 year old ball. But I have never seen USSA, AAU, SS, etc. teams from Saudia Arabia, Japan, or the other countries that are represented at the LLWS.

I did not mean to start an argument or hurt anyone's feelings...how about....

We have some of the best players at the 11-12 year old level playing at the LLWS. It would nice to have at least umpires of comparable skills instead of the political hacks (my opinion) that are selected by what appears to be a "good ol'boy" system.

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
I dunno BOF, it seems to me that checking the kids' biological age monthly and moving the kids between age groups on a monthly basis makes perfect sense.

I have four daughters. Three are between the ages of 13 and 17. I keep a calendar monthly, along with their mom, if you know what I mean.

Makes perfect sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

That was it for me. Turned off the TV went to bed. Bases loaded in the 5th inning and the umpire takes the bat out of the kids hands and helps decide the game. Disgraceful!

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Originally posted by Jimmy03:

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

a little low for you?

What about one umpire calling foul and the other - who really has the call, calling fair? I also don't like instant replay being used so much.

That was the third time that double call was made so far this WS.

We've got the world's best youth players who competed to get to this level. Why can't LL give some consideration to providing at least slightly comparable umpires?

Not even close to the worlds' best youth players. They could not even stay close with tournament teams so don't even dream that these are the best. Our 10U team plays on the same size field and we have kids crushing balls out and throwing as fast as most of these kids. They are good players from local areas but don't think they are the best. The best are not playing Little League.

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Not even close to the worlds' best youth players. They could not even stay close with tournament teams so don't even dream that these are the best. Our 10U team plays on the same size field and we have kids crushing balls out and throwing as fast as most of these kids. They are good players from local areas but don't think they are the best. The best are not playing Little League.

I think you're correct for the most part. However, it's always possible that some of these kids are among the best of their age group. There have been several Major League players that played in the Little League World Series. Obviously there have been many times more that didn't play little league, so surely you are correct. Either way, it's fun watching young kids play.

I wonder how those kids playing in front of 30,000 plus fans will respond to normal baseball the next several years. Only one way to ever play in front of a crowd like that again and even if it ever happens that would be many years after being 12 years old. Still very cool to see that many at a game, let alone millions watching it on TV. IMO, it is great for baseball!

Can a LLer 'verbal' and still play, like all those U10 travel kids do?

Ok, we can all agree the best players & umpires may not be in attendance... however, how many "paid" umpires have done a game with 30K in attendance? Looked like the kids handled the situation better than the adults. Just loved the LF for GA hugging his struggling pitcher then running to his position urging the crowd to "bring it" Additionally, I'm pretty sure a good number of these kids are "travel" players. The "LL team" from HI a year or so ago was made up of a majority of a fairly accomplished travel team. You can make an argument that no single tournament has "all the best" players, especially in this age group. Did a little checking, the boys from CA are also known as "Total Baseball" in USSSA land a couple of them also playing 14AAA for HB Oilers. As many may have guessed by watching them play, this isn't your run of the mill LL all-star team.

My 2 cents.

I don't live within 200 miles of a Little League. I have never seen one of their games in person. I still love to watch these boys play.

It is what it is. Don't understand the need to bad mouth it. Who cares whether or not they are the best?

I find myself curious what has happened to those who played who are my boy's age. Those I can remember are Dante Bichette Jr, the Pimental(?) boy from California and it seemed some other SoCal boys were pretty good back then.

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Originally posted by zombywoof:

The kids who didn't turn 12 yet would be eligible for the tournament the following year and even if they were only 11 and good enough, they still could've made the team depending on how the local leagues pick their all-stars.. I don't get the logic changing the cut date for that reason. Had they moved the date back to Dec 31, only 12 and under would be age eligible for the tournament and for the most part, kids would be playing in divisions with their classmates. Moving the date back makes the most sense, not up to May.

Zomby -

Not quite accurate. You can play if you do not turn 13 before the specified date. Under the old rules, if you turned 12 in June or July, your local league was typically done or nearly done before your 12th birthday. The next year, you were ineligible to play even though you were 12 during most (if not all) of the main LL season because you turned 13 before August. Now, those kids can play that last year of LL because they do not turn 13 before May 1.

Truthfully, I had to go through the logic a couple of times to finally get it straight. The purpose was to accommodate players at the local level. Only a few make it all the way through the district, state, and regional tournaments to make the LLWS. In spite of what the LLWS has become, there are a lot of local leagues where it is truly "recreation".

It's all relative. It is the 'Little League World Series' and apparently they are the best teams within Little League Baseball as established through their play off system. Unlike all other youth baseball events it has become a televised tradition.

I like watching the MLB World Series but when my team is not in it I'm not enamored by it. I like watching the College World Series but if my team doesn't have a game going on I can take or leave the other games. When the LLWS is on, I make a point of trying to catch every game and love every minute of it.

quote:

Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
Georgia vs. Pennsylvania

Did you guys JUST see that strike zone in the top of the 5th on that last batter? Really?

You talking about the called strike three on Fromm??? I can understand not squeezing a 12U pitcher, but if you're calling unhittable pitches strikes, what's the batter supposed to do? That's WHY there's a strike zone...I really got the feeling the guy at the plate was enamored with the spotlight and LOOKED for opportunities to ring a player up on a called K3...he did it several times on pitches that WERE NOT strikes.

You couldn't drag me away from the TV during the LLWS. It's the greatest.

Actually some of these kids are among the best. The LLWS kids from our area who played in the championship game also competed in high level travel ball and with less than the full complement of starters were quite competitive. A fair number of these kids are playing college ball at various levels. Afterwards many went on to play PONY league and those kids went to the PONY WS if I remember correctly. Quite of few of those LL and PONY players were drafted in the early rounds and a few who didn't get out the district were also drafted fairly early.

No, the LLWS is not the highest level of ball that you'll find in that age group but you'll certainly find some top players playing, especially from the powerhouse international teams such as Japan and Mexico among others.

I believe that the players in the LLWS are but just a small sampling of what the elite baseball players in their age groups look like. Are there other leagues with better talent? That is too hard to tell. One thing is for certain though, in recent years, America has shown they can beat the best of them from around various parts of the globe. You wouldn't be able to do that if the players playing in LL were not some of the best in the country.

Major Leaguers who have played in the Little League World Series
Wilson Alvarez (1982)
Lastings Milledge (1997)
* Jim Barbieri (1954)
Bobby Mitchell (1967)
Jason Bay (1990)
Jim Pankovitz (1968)
* Derek Bell (1980, 1981)
Yusmeiro Petit (1994)
Larvell Blanks (1962)
Marc Pisciotta (1983)
Sean Burroughs (1992, 1993)
* Boog Powell (1954)
Chin-Feng Chen (1990)
Guillermo Quiroz (1994)
Bill Connors (1954)
* Gary Sheffield (1980)
* Charlie Hayes (1977)
Carl Taylor (1954)
Ken Hubbs (1954)
Hector Torres (1958)
Keith Lampard (1958)
** Jason Varitek (1984)
Adam Loewen (1996)
Dave Veres (1978)
* Carney Lansford (1969)
** Ed Vosberg (1973)
Vance Lovelace (1975)
Dan Wilson (1981)
* Jason Marquis (1991)
* Rick Wise (1958)
Lloyd McClendon (1971)
Colby Rasmus (1999)

Notes
*Denotes player participated in Little League and Major League World Series.
**Denotes player participated in Little League World Series, College World Series and Major League World Series

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
LF,
Duh! But guess what kids make big time growth leaps over short time periods.

I guess it is a lot easier to pay a doctor to certify that a kid is younger biologically than they really are than to falsify a birth certificate. That should work out just great. Can't wait to see 16yo playing on 60' bases.

First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or pubic hair than the kid is obviously overage for Little League. It isn't always that obvious, but the dimensions aren't designed for Luke Ramirez (from a couple years back) and some other giants that play there on a yearly basis. There was an interesting study done over 50 years ago.

Here's the link: http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterEleven.html

Even if you don't agree with Marshall on everything (and I don't agree with him on many things), he still does have some interesting information.

I am speechless.

Wilson style beards are a dead giveaway though.

Son returned from a 12yo basketball tourney a few years ago saying "Dad, one of those guys had a beard!"

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Ok, we can all agree the best players & umpires may not be in attendance... however, how many "paid" umpires have done a game with 30K in attendance? Looked like the kids handled the situation better than the adults. Just loved the LF for GA hugging his struggling pitcher then running to his position urging the crowd to "bring it" Additionally, I'm pretty sure a good number of these kids are "travel" players. The "LL team" from HI a year or so ago was made up of a majority of a fairly accomplished travel team. You can make an argument that no single tournament has "all the best" players, especially in this age group. Did a little checking, the boys from CA are also known as "Total Baseball" in USSSA land a couple of them also playing 14AAA for HB Oilers. As many may have guessed by watching them play, this isn't your run of the mill LL all-star team.

As it is losing interest in our neck of the woods I hadn't paid much attention to LL rules in the past. Always assumed you couldn't play select/travel/whatever you want to call it and still play on LL team. I had guessed that they were all all-star teams from their respective leagues who win and advance.

That all changed last year when my then 12 year old came downstairs and turned on ESPN. He was watching the SW regional final. "Dad we played both these teams this year. One in Houston and one in Austin" I went and grabbed my scorebook and sure enough same teams we had played in a Super Series event and a Triple Crown event.

Most of these boys on the teams from the States have played a lot of non-LL baseball. They are pretty good ballplayers in our area at least. Not all are the best but certainly way better than most.

Too weird for me, guys. I'll see you in another thread.

Son played with a different youth baseball organization rather than LL - but had similar experiences. At one regional tournament (same set up - local allstar teams advance) the rumor was that one of the teams was a top travel team that incorporated an entire local program under the organizations rules just so they could play post season/ district - state - regional - WS / with the organization.

quote:

Originally posted by Low Finish:

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
LF,
Duh! But guess what kids make big time growth leaps over short time periods.

I guess it is a lot easier to pay a doctor to certify that a kid is younger biologically than they really are than to falsify a birth certificate. That should work out just great. Can't wait to see 16yo playing on 60' bases.

First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or pubic hair than the kid is obviously overage for Little League. It isn't always that obvious, but the dimensions aren't designed for Luke Ramirez (from a couple years back) and some other giants that play there on a yearly basis. There was an interesting study done over 50 years ago.

Here's the link: http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterEleven.html

Even if you don't agree with Marshall on everything (and I don't agree with him on many things), he still does have some interesting information.

I think I could grow mushrooms in the basement. I don't think I will though, but it's a better idea than that.

I believe inspection for pubic hair would bring a swift end to Little League Baseball. Can't we tell without doing that inspection? A little peach fuzz OK?

quote:

At one regional tournament (same set up - local allstar teams advance) the rumor was that one of the teams was a top travel team that incorporated an entire local program under the organizations rules just so they could play post season/ district - state - regional - WS / with the organization.

PONY baseball did this in an effort to make their "world series" more appealing and (I believe) hopefully get a bit of their own TV time. They enabled the creation of "Olympic Teams" comprised of players that are nominally members of a local PONY League but who play/practice from Sept through July and play Triple Crown and USSSA tournaments all season.

The result here in the Puget Sound region was the development of one particular team (sour grapes alert ) that took the Pony Regionals every year from 9U to 11U but got smeared when playing similarly constructed teams like Chino Hills, Cal at the WS play-in tournaments.

Similarly, the LL team from the Northwest that played deep in the LLWS last year had several players that played "select" and practiced together most of the year and played Triple Crown tournaments all season in addition to their nominal LL league season. Their head coach was unabashed that he coached the core of the team in something other than LL in addition to their playing in LL. They did nothing to hide it as their "select" team bags were clearly visible from the dugout during the ESPN broadcast of the Regional knockout games last August.

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Originally posted by Low Finish:
... First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or...

"A Rabbi, a Priest, and a Minister Walk Into a Bar..."

Check please!! GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I believe inspection for pubic hair would bring a swift end to Little League Baseball. Can't we tell without doing that inspection? A little peach fuzz OK?

You can tell without doing the inspection... The only thing that actually matters is skeletal growth. Skeletal growth is the biggest indicator of biological age. Seriously, just get a couple of parental volunteers and measure bones in the hands, arms, and wrists.

People aren't going to voluntarily allow their children to get X-rays, or I would say do it based on X-Rays.

Wow, this is getting ridiculous.

Point is that 13 year olds should not be playing 46' & 60'. Neither should 12 year olds for that matter.

I'm with AntzDad, off to other topics.

Very good game all around last night and how exciting for underdog Montana to pull it out.

Saw some very good heads up fielding and knowing where to throw the ball.

Looked at the roster for the West team and the youngest player had a November birthday. Effectively about half the kids had no chance of being on the all-star team going in. Not a single player born from December through April. Funny thing is that the January through March or so kids are the ones who will have an advantage come HS out in CA.

The Northwest team had more of an age distribution but the "studs" were almost all 13yo and older than the "studs" from the West team.

I agree with some of the other posters that moving the age limit to make the kids older was a mistake as it clearly increases the age bias effect by including more kids who have reached puberty. Personally I would have left it alone or made the cutoff date 8/31 so as to ensure that every player was no more than 12yo at the time of the LLWS championship game. That certainly wouldn't eliminate the problems as the main effect would have been to simply shift the "problem" birth dates but having younger kids in there overall would tend to reduce the age bias effect.

CADad, moving birth date to Jan 1 would most likely be the best deal for LL, end up with even younger bunch. Moving the cutoff date to Jan 1 would def put a tailspin into the Williamsport plans of teams who mainly play a strong level tournament ball & play the minimum Little League season as well accomplished tournament teams. Personally, I don't understand the interest in doing that. Much better youth baseball out there for 12U's on 50-70's & 54-80's. Will have the National Youth Baseball Championships on this weekend at the house & in my shop.

http://www.mlb.com/youthmajors/

My son, now 14, and I got into watching the LLWS a few years ago. I often wondered where these teams come from and the quality of the players/teams compared to my sons AAA/Major team playing mostly USSSA. No one plays LL around here. I just figured they were much better. They are playing in the LLWS after all. I just looked up the SW team from LA. They played USSSA AAA/major schedule and had a record of 8-20. I guess I have my answer. Not what I expected.
Doesn't matter - we still love watching it.

Nolan,
I think you should start a thread called, "Hey, Let's Think Up Thinly Disguised Ways to Wedge My 14 y/o Son's BB Career in to the Conversation"
...

quote:

Originally posted by nolan ryan:
My son, now 14, and I got into watching the LLWS a few years ago. I often wondered where these teams come from and the quality of the players/teams compared to my sons AAA/Major team playing mostly USSSA. No one plays LL around here. I just figured they were much better. They are playing in the LLWS after all. I just looked up the SW team from LA. They played USSSA AAA/major schedule and had a record of 8-20. I guess I have my answer. Not what I expected.
Doesn't matter - we still love watching it.

Good job trashing a dozen 12 year olds, in so few words. Feel better?

How to wear a baseball hat. Cali
How not to wear a baseball hat. Pa

JMO

Twice, I've heard an announcer say that LL has determined that curve balls do not hurt a kid's arm, it is overuse. And that is why they have pitch limits.

I've not heard this before cbs vs overuse. It is real?


(oh and um, yes this thread got a little off track!)

That assumes mechanics are right and repeated each time. How many 12 year olds do you think that applies to? That's LL propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by 55mom:
Twice, I've heard an announcer say that LL has determined that curve balls do not hurt a kid's arm, it is overuse. And that is why they have pitch limits.

I've not heard this before cbs vs overuse. It is real?

That's Orel Hershiser. He's the best announcer in the game. Nothing but facts. He is correct.

55mom,
you are well to question the certainty of any particular position.
In April of 2011, the National Athletic Trainer's Association issued a position statement on pediatric injuries.
As it relates to the literature and studies on curve balls and breaking balls, here is a cut/paste of their summary and conclusions:

"Some experts are now moving away from the long-held
and perhaps largely anecdotal belief that throwing
breaking pitches is related to arm injuries in young baseball
players. The only prospective study20 we were able to find
appears to support this belief: pitchers throwing sliders had
an 86% increased risk of elbow pain, and pitchers throwing
curveballs had a 52% increased risk of shoulder pain.
However, biomechanical studies comparing torque and
moments generated by different types of pitches in 11- to
14-year-olds85 and 14- to 18-year-olds86 showed that the
fastball imposed more demand than the curveball. Based
on the results of these biomechanics studies, some
researchers have postulated that throwing breaking pitches
is not necessarily risky for young athletes. Yet it is
important to recognize that the participants in these studies
were healthy, with no history of arm injury, and, in the case
of the Nissen et al86 study, perhaps slightly older than the
players who are generally the target of the recommendation
against throwing breaking balls."

The NATA recommendation on breaking balls for youth pitchers is:

"Parents and coaches should restrict the use of breaking
pitches in order to prevent pitching-related arm
injuries.20 If an individual pitcher can throw breaking
pitches on a limited basis and remain symptom free,
then it may be allowed; however, if the use of this pitch
precedes the development of any throwing-related
symptoms, it should be immediately terminated and
the athlete should seek medical attention. Evidence
Category: C"

That is very interesting. Throw until it hurts? Our son has never had a pitching injury - he didn't throw hard breaking anything until older. I guess it is hard to draw conclusions since it is impossible to do comparative studies. Just use common sense I suppose.

I don't feel like LL is helping its credibility by stating curveballs don't hurt arms. There does seem to be enough evidence to make parents pause and ask themselves "why chance it?"

Common sense is the best advice. Every pitcher is different. Some are better condiotioned, some have better mechanics, some throw harder, some have stronger muscles, bones and ligaments, etc. Each pitcher is different. When we begin making cookie cutter guidelines as a one size fits all we miss the point again. The guidlines put in place by recommendation of doctors is a general guidline and one meant to curb a vast number of injuries from occuring.

Regarding youth throwing breaking balls, again it is common sense as much for that as it is for throwing fastballs. If they can't throw without pain then something needs addressing obviously. In my 10 years of watching youth baseball I have never found any instance where throwing breaking balls were more dangerous than just pitching fastballs. I have seen pitchers with sore arms, sore elbows, shoulders etc, that had no idea on how to throw a breaking ball.

The part that disturbs me the greatest is we are stuck in this belief that as long as they have pain just from throwing fastballs- that's ok- ice them up, give plenty of ibuporofin and wallah, let em go again two days later. This attitude is troubling because we believe that it is only curveballs thrown by youth that damages arm health short and long term.

It's good we have pitching limits in place in many organizations to help curb the problem. However, we will never get to the bottom of it (the injuries) until we can convince both players and parents (coaches too) the absolute imporatance of proper arm care, conditioning, and knowing when to stop and shut it down. It doesn;t matter what pitchers throw- be it a slider, fastball or knuckle ball. We need to be more aware that "overuse" is the main cause of throwing injuries and that players especially need to have a knowledge that it isn't good to pitch while either fatigued, sore, or injured!

A key problem is kids don't know the difference between normal muscle sorness from work and pain that indicates a problem. From doctors I've talked to, they can't explain it or help kids/parents know one from the other as much as you would think they could either. They talk in code words like "listen to your body"...like a 12 year old is supposed to know what that means.

One thing to watch your son closely on is his delivery. If you start to see his delivery being altered, there's a good chance he's doing that to protect something that hurts. When you protect one problem (for example, elbow), you generally put more strain on something else (for example, shoulder) and it all goes down hill rapidly. I agree with gingerbread man. To me it's common sense to avoid the curveball, and overuse, at this age. But, sadly, many don't come to that conclusion until they are sitting in the operating waiting room.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Common sense is the best advice. Every pitcher is different. Some are better condiotioned, some have better mechanics, some throw harder, some have stronger muscles, bones and ligaments, etc. Each pitcher is different. When we begin making cookie cutter guidelines as a one size fits all we miss the point again. The guidlines put in place by recommendation of doctors is a general guidline and one meant to curb a vast number of injuries from occuring.

Regarding youth throwing breaking balls, again it is common sense as much for that as it is for throwing fastballs. If they can't throw without pain then something needs addressing obviously. In my 10 years of watching youth baseball I have never found any instance where throwing breaking balls were more dangerous than just pitching fastballs. I have seen pitchers with sore arms, sore elbows, shoulders etc, that had no idea on how to throw a breaking ball.

The part that disturbs me the greatest is we are stuck in this belief that as long as they have pain just from throwing fastballs- that's ok- ice them up, give plenty of ibuporofin and wallah, let em go again two days later. This attitude is troubling because we believe that it is only curveballs thrown by youth that damages arm health short and long term.

It's good we have pitching limits in place in many organizations to help curb the problem. However, we will never get to the bottom of it (the injuries) until we can convince both players and parents (coaches too) the absolute imporatance of proper arm care, conditioning, and knowing when to stop and shut it down. It doesn;t matter what pitchers throw- be it a slider, fastball or knuckle ball. We need to be more aware that "overuse" is the main cause of throwing injuries and that players especially need to have a knowledge that it isn't good to pitch while either fatigued, sore, or injured!

Studies indicate that the curveball is no more stressful than throwing a fastball. However, throwing 15 curves in a row is dangerous if the curveball is thrown improperly. There is a correct way to throw a curveball. There is also an incorrect way to throw a curveball, which is the way that 95-99% of all pitchers throw it.

Injuries don't just come from overuse, they come from genetic disposition. If your father has a weak rotator cuff, you have an increased chance of rotator cuff injury. Same thing with the labrum, the UCL, and any other part of the body. Properly pitching mechanics can help lessen the risk, but it's mostly a function of genetics.

I think this can be summed up with one of those old sayings. If your right and I am wrong so what? But if Im right and your wrong, oh my!

Over use no doubt is dangerous. How much is over the top? For one player it may be too much. For another it might not be. There has to be some sort of boundary set just in case. Innings pitched? Pitches thrown in a game? Pitches thrown in or during an inning? How old is the player? How physically developed is the player? How many innings has he already thrown that year? It goes on and on. Pitch counts for a game. Pitch count for a inning. Proper rest between starts with proper recovery program. Proper prep for game throwing. Proper throwing mechanics. Etc etc

Then there is basic common sense. The player starts to lose his mechanics? He can't command his pitches. He loses velo. He starts to throw with a different arm action. He has obvious pain or discomfort. He complains of soreness, stiffness, pain.

I don't believe in breaking pitches for young players. I also believe in limiting breaking pitches for HS aged pitchers. Why? I don't believe that a fastball puts the same strain on the arm as a breaking pitch for a younger player. First of all they have not totally developed physically. They have not developed their ability to pitch totally. There is more strain on the arm , shoulder etc when throwing a breaking pitch than there is a fastball. Now thats my opinion. And if I am wrong so what? But what if I am right?

I have seen too many young kids with good arms never pitch in hs. First of all they were on the mound way too much. And secondly they were throwing breaking pitches at a young age. Did the over use lead to their demise or did the breaking pitches at a young age lead to their demise? I would say both. But if I am wrong so what?

What do you lose by not allowing young kids to throw breaking pitches? What do you gain by allowing them to throw them? Now ask yourself if its worth the potential risk? If your right and breaking pitches pose no more harm than throwing a fastball then what have you gained? But what if your wrong?

I have seen the torque that some young kids put on their arms when trying to throw breaking pitches. I have seen some young kids who could really spin it. But none of them ever were top arms at the hs level. For some reason they were not around by the age of 17 or 18. I have had some great arms over my time as a hs coach. Every one of them were guys that were born with a very good arm. Every one of them were guys that worked very hard. Long toss, core work, weight room when in hs, and they learned how to command the fastball. They worked on their off speed stuff in hs. But the bread and butter was the fastball and command of it.

If those that believe the curveball, slider does not pose anymore risk that throwing a fastball for a young pitcher is willing to risk their son's young arm then go for it. And if your right great. But what if your wrong? Is it worth it? Me I will not risk a kids future in the game based on a hunch, or a study, or anything outside of what I have personally seen over many years in the game. And that is the curveball, slider - breaking pitch does indeed put more stress on the arm than a fastball. And especially for kids who have not physically matured and have not properly learned how to throw them.

If I am wrong so what? If you are wrong you have to live with it. Many parents love the attention that their son gets by having success at a young age. And if that breaking pitch allows them to have that success then they go with "its not the breaking pitches" its over use. The bottom line is you can spin it all day long but if you don't have a certain level of velo behind that fastball your days are numbered very quickly in this game. And if your hanging by the time your 16 is it really going to matter what you did at 12? Over use is bad. Throwing breaking pitches at 11 and 12 --- not worth the risk. Unless your SURE you are right. Are you sure your right? If so you know more than a lot of folks who have been around the game for a long time.

I am not 100 percent sure. So I would rather err on the side of caution. Because its simply not worth the risk of being wrong. If I am wrong the kid has spent his time working on mechanics, command of his fastball and how to change speeds on his fastball. He has spent his time learning how to pitch. When he adds that off speed arsenal to his tool box he is even better. If you are wrong - oh my.

I remember sitting with a dad while his son was getting drilled in a middle school game. All he had was a fastball and a change up that was no more than a bp fastball. He simply didn't have the velo and command yet to dominate hitters his own age. His dad kept saying "If he would just learn a curveball." And I just sat there looking at a kid who I knew was going to be a stud once he learned how to command and got stronger. He is now pitching in the Majors.

The breaking pitch for kids 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 is fools gold. Once your in hs and your facing kids older, stronger, smarter who are not going to be fooled by simply a "breaking pitch" if you dont know how to pitch and you dont have a fastball that can command their respect your done. The last piece of the puzzle in my opinion is the mastery of the off speed arsenal. And it should be slowly worked into the tool box as the player matures both physically and mentally as a pitcher.

This is just my opinion. I may be wrong. But even if I am. I still feel I am right. Either way I can live with it.

Coach May,

Excellent!

Coach May,
Had a kid on my LL team at 12yo who had great success throwing curves at 11yo. His dad would ask me to call more curves. He had a good fastball so I didn't even consider it and told the dad the kid had a future because of his fastball and arm action. He now pitches for BYU.

The other kid from our area who had also targeted BYU was more successful in HS throwing lots and lots of sliders. He's out of the game.

I actually beleive that the use of the slider has not been in the best interest for my son. I believe that the slider poses an issue for most pitchers, even at the pro level. Has his issues been due to that breaking pitch or his velocity? There is no right or wrong answer. I can only say he never had any issue in his life until he began throwing that pitch in college. It's a good pitch for him, but now uses it in his limited role. He is throwing 95% FB (2 and 4) and feels great.

If it's not great for grown men, why would it be good for a growing boy?

An added note, if breaking balls are so great for youngsters, why do ML and former ML pitchers not allow their young pitchers to throw them?

Makes you have to stop and think.

I don't know about curves. I stayed away from them as much as possible with the youngsters because they tended to hurt my arm when I threw a lot of them in BP. Not very scientific reasoning there.

I think almost everyone agrees that the slider is hard on almost every arm. It is also a very effective pitch so it gets used.

Over the past few years, when I've asked a pitcher at tryouts (ages 12-14) what pitches they throw, more often than not the answer is "Fastball and Curveball." Sometimes they'll even toss in a Slider or a Knuckleball.

Seriously? Slider? Knuckleball? Where's the change up?

I'm no Orel Hersheiser, but I'm positive a young pitcher can go a long way with a fastball and a changeup.

Heres where I don't agree- A lot of people who may be coaches, Dads, ex-pro players are saying the breaking ball is very bad on young arms and saying nothing about overuse of just plain throwing. The recent studies by leading doctors and researchers are now coming to the pretty much overwhelming conclusion that injury in youth players is due primarily to "overuse" and not necessarily throwing breaking balls. Research by those same leading doctors and specialists are also now saying that more stress indeed is placed on the arm throwing a fastball over any other pitch.

I do agree however that the fastball is the number one goal for any pitcher to master and command and that they should work on that pitch paramount to all other offspeed pitches. But here is where it bothers me because we still have this dogmatic tradition of believing that only pre hs and even hs kids themselves who throw strictly fastballs and changeups make it to the big leagues. It's almost as if we preach this doctrine of throwing a myriad of fastballs and less offspeed is most healthy for an arm, and that when a pitcher does experience any kind of pain, the first place we look at is- how many curveballs did they throw? How many curveballs did Strasburg throw before TJS? He more than likely had surgery because of the velocity he throws at, period!


Don't get me wrong here, I am not necessarily advocating throwing and teaching kids to throw lots of breaking balls, I am just saying that the main emphasis needs to shift from the old dogma of "no curveballs before 15" and shift gears into teaching pitchers to better condition their arms, not throw while fatigued or injured, and not leave them in marathon pitching events or too many showcases where they throw too many hard fastballs that are most damaging and stressful on the arm.

Just curious but... I wonder what percentage of the top prospects on PerfectGame who attend their showcases as HS pitchers do not throw some type of breaking ball and throw it well at that? I mean, if we are going to really keep score, do the top prospects in the country who do go on to play post HS and perhaps even go on to get drafted, did they throw a breaking ball in HS and also threw it well?

I mean, if we are going to really keep score, do the top prospects in the country who do go on to play post HS and perhaps even go on to get drafted, did they throw a breaking ball in HS and also threw it well?

---------------------------------------------------

gbm

the top prospects in the country were most likely top prospects in HS. i'd bet that was mostly based on size/body type and velocity.

i have heard DR. Andrews say the cb is not good for young arms. that along with overuse is going to take it's toll on young arms. but you won't know it for years.

we do need to learn/teach proper development for pitchers etc. we need to remember 2 things.

1)youth baseball is a game, games are meant to be fun.

2)you can't train a 12 yr old like a man, keep it in perspective.

have fun with the process,when the fun stops..........

As usual; Coach May put this into a proper perspective. Why would you allow your son to take the chance??

I've said this before in various threads but there is absolutely "no doubt" in my mind that throwing a pitch that requires supination (normal curve balls and sliders) puts additional strain on the elbow.

No study needed, just 2000 years of teachings in the "striking arts" and your own demonstration. In Karate, it is taught to "twist" the arm inwards, thumbs down as you strike. One can literally throw power punches this way all day, everyday, without elbow pain. However, try it without "pronating" or worse yet, twisting outwards, "supinating," and see how you wince in pain as the elbow locks.

Try it your self, hold your fist near your body at shoulder height and then throw a punch pronating, then straight, then supinating.

No, I wouldn't allow my son to throw curve balls, in number, until Junior year of high school.

I don't buy the argument that the fastball causes more problems. My youth son, now in College, has thrown hard all his life without elbow or shoulder issues AND performed a "gazillion" power strike movements with both arms (As have I, all pronating, of course). By the way, rarely do the worlds best throwers, Javelin throwers, suffer elbow issues because you pronate throwing that thing which weighs more than the five ounces of a baseball. Again, common sense ought to prevail here.

Overuse, is definitely a problem with youth players. They do need rest and recovery time.

WHY TAKE A CHANCE? (well said; Coach May).

I would imagine all the top prospects PG has in their database throw breaking pitches. I don't know many hs aged pitchers who don't. Especially Soph Jr and Sr guys. But they don't have to live off of them when their 12 and I don't think most of them did. I could be wrong.

The guys that I have coached that have gone on to have very good hs careers, college careers and have been drafted did not. I could give you several examples of kids I have coached and I am aware of that did not. And PG had them ranked very high.

There is a big difference in living off of breaking pitches at 10 11 and 12 and learning how to throw them and developing once you enter hs. I am sure there are guys that throw the heck out of them from 9 on up. And maybe some of these guys never have a problem. I simply don't think its worth the risk that I believe exists. This is a topic that people are just going to disagree about. And thats ok.

If your son played for me or anyone else's and came in as a 14 or 15 year old freshman he would never have the chance to show me his hammer until he showed me he could pitch. Fastball, 4 and 2 seamer for strikes and balls, change speed on his heater for strikes and balls and work a change. Until he can do that I could careless if he has a hammer or not. And once he shows he can do that we will work on that hammer. But even then its going to be limited in its use. Its just me. Maybe I am a little old fashioned or in left field. But its worked quite well for those with the ability and work ethic to reach the next level.

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Common sense is the best advice.

I think that is what most here are stating yet you still find argument (weak one) to support youth players throwing curve balls is a not harmful.

That just goes to show how limited your scope of experience is, that you get most of your info from "reading" and not from acutual experience in this particular instance. Obviously, your son threw lots of CB's when younger, at 15, it's hard to tell the effects that it might have in a few years, or six months from now. Hopefully you have limited his work, thus eliminating one factor that could result in unjury, overuse.

Let's put this in perspective. We are not talking about Stephen Strasburg here (who by the way threw lots and lots of curveballs in college) but 9-14 year old children. You seem to miss that point, and you also seem to miss the point that these are children, and you don't train children like they are men.

Tell me how to train a 9-14 year old to be better conditioned so that he can throw a breaking ball?

What does top prospects in the country have to do with throwing breaking balls well? Do you think that when players attend showcases at that point they have A+ stuff? Do you even think it necessary to have a bb at that point? Showcases are based upon future projection. And there are plenty of players that get drafted or get into top baseball program that have average secondary stuff. To use son as an example he really didn't have a decent breaking pitch he relied on (more of a slurvy show me pitch as a senior in HS) until college, he was recruited on the use of his 2 FB and change up. And it took years to learn to throw the slider properly.

The 2009 first round pick in the STL organization out of HS, is just now learning to throw a curve ball with confidance. He wasn't drafted as a first pick for his secondary pitches but rather his future projection on the use of those pitches and a devastating fastball. So you need to do some homework regarding the draft.

It's all how you look at it, and waking up each day and looking yourself in the mirror has a lot to do with it.

DK's agent is a former ML player who had TJS. In discussions (about this particular subject) he has told me that at his son uses the FB and the change up, pretty successful national youth team too. Why do you suppose that? And if you think he doesn't know his stuff, you are so wrong. Same as coach May, you got to work on developing your FB (2 seam, 4 seam, change up before you get to use the breaking stuff). I will take his opinion anyday over some wanna be dad instuctor.

I have to go with Coach May's and others opinion on the fact that the argument stands that it isn't on who is right and who is wrong, but what makes common sense. It doesn't make sense seeing these 12 and 13 year old kids use the cb over and over and over, I don't watch the LLWS anymore for that reason.

I have said this before and will say it again, one can make the decision to teach their own these breaking pitches and use them frequently at a young age, but if you are a coach you better stay far away from my kid.

Unfortunetly, the problem is that most parents don't know any better, they put their faith and trust in people who do not know better.


JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Common sense is the best advice.

That just goes to show how limited your scope of experience is, that you get most of your info from "reading" and not from acutual experience in this particular instance.
JMO.

Gingerbreadman, as you can see, according to the Queen of baseball, no one on this site has any credibility regarding baseball unless, their son was drafted and plays professionally or has the word " Coach" in their screen name. No offense is meant to the coaches here.

TPM, enjoy your day.

quote:

Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Gingerbread Man:
Common sense is the best advice.

That just goes to show how limited your scope of experience is, that you get most of your info from "reading" and not from acutual experience in this particular instance.
JMO.

Gingerbreadman, as you can see, according to the Queen of baseball, no one on this site has any credibility regarding baseball unless, their son was drafted and plays professionally or has the word " Coach" in their screen name. No offense is meant to the coaches here.

TPM, enjoy your day.

GBM claimed to me that he knew a alot about pitching, what does that entail, do you know?

Is he a certified instuctor, has he played the game, does he get paid as a coach, has he ever sent a player to the next level? Does he work for a ML team as a scout? Does he have a player that has made it past HS? A player he has wored with that plays the game at the highest level?

There are lots of folks here that fit into that category, yet they don't spew out on a messageboard what a player should or shouldn't do, based on all the "reading" they do, or watching players pitch on TV. The best advice PUHD, comes from years of experience being close to the game (which many here have) not ten years of "watching LL or travel ball", and FWIW, I have never given advice on how to pitch on this or any other website.
My advice here has and will always be get a qualified person to see you in person to determine what your issue is.

GBM states that common sense is the best advice, yet he refutes what others think is common sense.

That makes no sense to me.

I would like to know what you have added to this site, other than being extremely jealous of Bryce Harper, could you point out what you contribute here, please?

Mr Umpire those are not strikes. Just because he hits his spot its not a strike. Good Grief its frustrating to watch.

It's funny, I didn't see a single curve ball in the LLWS

I believe some of you may have gotton the wrong impression from my posts regarding throwing a breaking ball. If you will recall I said that common sense should be the rule. Every kid is different- some are...(have I mentioned all this before), anyway, you all know.

My point is that too much emphasis is placed upon youth who throw curveballs and not enough where it needs to be- that of basic overuse. I am not sure why some (TPM) believe I give bad advice? Is teaching that it is wrong to throw while fatigued bad advice? Is it wrong to teach kids the ptoper way to warm up and properly condition their arms for throwing? Is it bad advice to teach parents the importance of not letting junior throw while either injured or fatigued? Is it wrong to work with kids mechanics who throw fastballs and have pain? Is it wrong to not let a kid keep pitching at the first sign of pain and/or fatigue? Is it wrong to teach that it is not normal to have nagging pain from throwing and that ice and ibuprofin is the long term cure?

I guess if I am wrong in those areas- then yes I am giving bad advice. But I know you would all agree.

I get tired of all the jargon over curveball this and curveball that when studies are showing that the main cause for youth injuries is from overuse. That means it doesn't matter what junior is throwing, if he throws too much he increases his odds for injury. I also made it the point that the cookie cutter guidleines like "pitch counts" or "inning limits" is a general guidelines for the reason of helping curb injury. But it isn't one size fits all. this is where "common sense" comes into play. Some can't throw more than two innings of throwing fastballs without severe elbow pain. Others can throw 7 innings and only feel slightly tired when they are done. Each is different and that is where the focus should be. When we place all emphasis on "no curveballs" because it causes injury, I honestly believe we miss the mark entirely or have not done proper research into the matter. Sure, there is a right and wrong way to throw a curveball. But the same can be said for any pitch including the fastball.

I managed to watch the final, but I had to mute Mussy and the "dog".... What a train wreck!

It was fun to watch Japan and Cali, two very good teams. I hated to see Japan not get out of the 6th with the tailor made DP ball. I know the DP cannot be assumed, but the SS makes that play 99 out of 100 times!

Congrats to the Cali boys!!!

GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
It's funny, I didn't see a single curve ball in the LLWS

Neither did several of the home plate umpires.

Thank goodness it is over!
I'd rather be forced to watch endless 30 year old reruns of Jerry Lewis MDA Labor Day telethon, than be subjected to the continual Little League propaganda every time we click on ESPN.

Kudo's to MLB.com & streaming tonight's National Youth Baseball Championship!

Agree thank goodness it's over, but why does the ESPN trailer have to continually say, "Japan shortstop made an error on possible double play ball that allowed..."

Couldn't it just say, Hunington Beach player *** hit a walk off single?

Why do we have to rub it in like that. For goodness sake, they're 12.

JMoff I totally agree with you.

Besides the fact of the camera looming in on his face as he is literally bawling.I felt bad for that kid.I would of rather seen them not lose like that.Japan always puts good teams and classy kids on the field and I personally enjoy watching them every year.

quote:

Originally posted by journey2:
Thank goodness it is over!
I'd rather be forced to watch endless 30 year old reruns of Jerry Lewis MDA Labor Day telethon, than be subjected to the continual Little League propaganda every time we click on ESPN.

Kudo's to MLB.com & streaming tonight's National Youth Baseball Championship!

Yeah but did you see the size of those kids on the Texas team? Talk about "man-child"!

Fanofgame, agree 100%. I enjoy the LLWS, like to try to predict who the final two are, Japan seems to be always there in the final game. I wonder if they bet on them in Vegas?

I would rather watch kids play baseball for the fun, rather then million dollar prima donas.

Is it just a matter of time before some very advanced 13 year old in the LLWS will be throwing 90 mph?

Will they allow him to play? Will the MPH conversion show he is throwing 120-130 mph?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Is it just a matter of time before some very advanced 13 year old in the LLWS will be throwing 90 mph?

Will they allow him to play? Will the MPH conversion show he is throwing 120-130 mph?

Yeah, I totally hear you there. I remember a few years back they had a kid throwing in the low 80's and it was ridiculous. The announcers kept bragging about his power arm and him throwing no-hitters. Well, duh! I hope they do find some 90 mph kid and put him on the bump so that it perhaps can finally show to the world why they need to move the mounds back and bases apart or redo the age limit.

Doubt LL will ever move the mound & bases bases back, it wouldn't work with LL's penchant for having closed bases. LL's 50-70 pilot program seems to have fizzled, though I'm far from in a LL insider. Personally, I think its beyond stupid keeping the present course, by moving the age cutoff to Jan1, it would eliminate many of the bigger guys. During Sports Center, we looked up the player history of the S Cal pitcher who had the comebacker hit him in the cap. Talking a solid 12Majors tournament ball kid & his reaction didn't necessarily save him from having his face rearranged or worse, more like luck