I can't stand watching the LLWS anymore. One of the announcers said "He's very likely to play at the next level". The next level is high school! (This was the Georgia-West Virginia game).
One of the most ridiculous things I've heard in a while...
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:quote:Originally posted by Low Finish:
So in summary, you can clock the kid, but share the results only with him or keep them to yourself. Kids trying to out do each other leads to injuries.
Can you tell me how many kids that you have personally witnessed get injured while "throwing for the gun"? Accordingly, there must be hundreds that get hurt at PG events every year.
I have never seen a pitcher get hurt like this, and I have been doing this a long time.
When you gun a team, the kids get excited for the first pitch or two, then they don't even know you are there for the rest of the game/season.
We should ban grandma from watching little Johnny also. He might try to throw too hard.
This is a silly myth that doesn't pass the slightest bit of scrutiny, and it's a shame that ASMI pushes it.
Never said that I had witnessed any such thing. I said that as I recalled Andrews had previously said that HE had treated patients injured at showcases.
If you keep track of what Andrews/ASMI preaches you should know that his/their feelings about radar guns are a VERY minor part of their platform. The main thing they focus on is overuse, pitch counts, inadequate rest during the season, year round play, etc.
Keep your gun. I agree with you that they can be valuable tools. But don't try to sell the BS that you got it to monitor fatigue. Out of curiousity, how much of a drop in velocity is a sign of fatigue? 1 mph? 2 mph? 5 mph? When does the gun tell you it is time to take a kid out.
Interesting thread because there are really two subjects worth considering here. The curveball thing and the LLWS in and of itself.
I'm sure there strong feelings all the way around, but I'm with the folks who are disinterested in the LLWS. To me it all comes down to post-May 1 13 year-olds playing on a 60-foot diamond, with a 46 foot mound, and 220 foot fences. It seems absolutely inauthentic to me.
As for the curveball thing, it seems so utterly prevalent in this age group now. I have no opinion on the health issue because I don't think studies have been (or can be) definitive at all. The problem I have with the curve at 12 years-old is that it's become an utter crutch for kids (or kids' coaches, or their dads, or all of these) who want to get outs without learning how to really pitch.
From what I've seen over the past two years as my son entered and passed through this age-group, kids with semi-reliable curves use them invariably to get 'swing and miss' strikeouts because they can't spot their fastballs with any consistency, and/or change speeds in any useful way. Count goes to 0-2? Here comes Charlie.
To me that's just an unsustainable approach to developing a young pitcher. These kids have to be able to move a fastball around AND change speeds as he grows inorder to remain successful.
I'm sure there strong feelings all the way around, but I'm with the folks who are disinterested in the LLWS. To me it all comes down to post-May 1 13 year-olds playing on a 60-foot diamond, with a 46 foot mound, and 220 foot fences. It seems absolutely inauthentic to me.
As for the curveball thing, it seems so utterly prevalent in this age group now. I have no opinion on the health issue because I don't think studies have been (or can be) definitive at all. The problem I have with the curve at 12 years-old is that it's become an utter crutch for kids (or kids' coaches, or their dads, or all of these) who want to get outs without learning how to really pitch.
From what I've seen over the past two years as my son entered and passed through this age-group, kids with semi-reliable curves use them invariably to get 'swing and miss' strikeouts because they can't spot their fastballs with any consistency, and/or change speeds in any useful way. Count goes to 0-2? Here comes Charlie.
To me that's just an unsustainable approach to developing a young pitcher. These kids have to be able to move a fastball around AND change speeds as he grows inorder to remain successful.
quote:Originally posted by MTH:
Out of curiousity, how much of a drop in velocity is a sign of fatigue? 1 mph? 2 mph? 5 mph? When does the gun tell you it is time to take a kid out.
Around 3 mph (consistently) seemed to be the right number. This would also coincide with walks.
I like watching it. To me, they're kids getting treated like big leaguers for a little while. It's a dream come true. What's so bad about that?
I'm with AntzDad. We've been to the LLWS in Williamsport several times. It is great seeing kids having fun PLAYING the game.
By the way, the MVP at the PG WWBA 17U this year was one of the big pitchers several years ago when his team from Georgia won the LLWS.
Personally, I would like to see them play on the larger field. The 46 foot mound is pretty close for how hard some of the kids have been throwing in the past few years (but the batters can still hit them).
By the way, the MVP at the PG WWBA 17U this year was one of the big pitchers several years ago when his team from Georgia won the LLWS.
Personally, I would like to see them play on the larger field. The 46 foot mound is pretty close for how hard some of the kids have been throwing in the past few years (but the batters can still hit them).
I love watching the LL world series. I would much rather watch a bunch of kids playing a team sport as a team trying to win as a team for their home towns. Than to watch what can playing on this team do for me.
On espn last night they showed a tweet from Strasburg who was complaining about the curveballs and the one kid who "pimped" his homerun. I understand the amount of curveballs gets out of hand, but where do you think the kid learned how to "pimp" his homeruns? Major League Baseball. I love seeing these kids get the chance to feel like MLB players for a while.
C'mon Coach down by one, you got 1st & 2nd nothing, and you don't bunt? nah, let em hit into the DP Are you kidding???
Was thinking the very same thing. Not like it was his big bopper at the plate either. That shocked me to be honest.
quote:Originally posted by SultanofSwat:
Can you tell me how many kids that you have personally witnessed get injured while "throwing for the gun"?
I am not sure but I do believe that they felt there was a strong correlation between injuries and attending numreous tournaments and showcases where they take velocities.
The first time son hit the magic #, there was about 6-7 radar guns on him and a whole lot of important people watching. I am pretty sure he threw as hard as he could to impress someone. That is one of the reasons why we started a bit later with the torunies and showcases that take those stats. I didn't think at 13,14 he needed that and he hit 90 without being "charted" for progress at an early age. Personal preference.
I have no problem with the gun as a teaching tool, HS players should start to begin to chart pitches (you got to do this in college) which would include using the radar gun. But when I see a dad sitting at a 14-15 tournament gunning his pitcher and then telling him during the game his velocity, well that is just plain out of control and could be a recipe for disaster, IMO.
Of course players try to outdo each other, it's their competitve nature to do so. I wouldn't expect any less.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I like watching it. To me, they're kids getting treated like big leaguers for a little while. It's a dream come true. What's so bad about that?
I like it. My son has two pitching students on the Louisiana team.
I bet he's proud of them. I'll root for Louisiana. How's that?
Cell service can be spotty up there. He might not be able to get a hold of them. Last time I was around Williamsport, I hit scan on my car radio. It came back to the same station.
Cell service can be spotty up there. He might not be able to get a hold of them. Last time I was around Williamsport, I hit scan on my car radio. It came back to the same station.
Son's team lost in the state finals, one run from making it to the regionals, his 12 year old year. Everyone can bash LLWS tournament all they want, but that run was so much fun for the kids, families and community. Being involved in a tournament that you don't pay to get into and are playing with you friends that you have played with since tball is priceless!
It is little boys having the time of their life - don't over analyze it!
It is little boys having the time of their life - don't over analyze it!
quote:Originally posted by cf:
Son's team lost in the state finals, one run from making it to the regionals, his 12 year old year. Everyone can bash LLWS tournament all they want, but that run was so much fun for the kids, families and community. Being involved in a tournament that you don't pay to get into and are playing with you friends that you have played with since tball is priceless!
It is little boys having the time of their life - don't over analyze it!
This.
Has it gotten too big? Probably.
Should they update their playing dimensions? Yes.
Other than that, there is simply no other youth sports event that comes close to this. There is plenty of time in the teen years to follow for travel ball, soulless teams, teammates you hardly know. This is towns, communities, families, friends. And this is bad?
A lot of interesting discussion on curves and overuse. Every kid is different so there is no one size fits all. Here's my story - My 14yo son started with the curve about half way through the 12yo season. He used it very little - maybe <5%. At 13 he was 9% C, 11% CH, and 80% FB. This year he was 17% C, 5% CH, and 78% FB. From late April through early July this year he threw 1,472 pitches in 96 innings over the 26 games he pitched in. Twice he went over 100 pitches, one 104 and another 106. Never, in all the years pitching, has he had an arm problem or complained of soreness. Last time he had a gun on him, that I saw anyway, was a bit over a year ago and he was at 73. Don't know where he is now but I know he's a lot faster. So he's not lobbing the ball up there - there is some torque on his arm. I'm curious to get your thoughts on usage and pitch mix.
LL all-stars was fun. It was a great time for the kids, the parents and the community. Both my son and I made knew friends through the time spent together. This happens when your team plays into August rather than 2&BBQ.
When my son was twelve he played a game before an estimated crowd of 800-1000. I told him to enjoy it. I told him he may not play a baseball game in front of that many people again.
Living within a three hour drive to Williamsport we went several times when my son was ten to twelve years old. There aren't any stangers at Williamsport. Everyone is connected by the game of baseball. We met interesting people from all over the country and the world. Williamsport is the Disneyland of Baseball.
When my son played only travel ball starting at thirteen he said he missed the "win or go home" aspect to all-stars. In travel ball there's always next week.
Nothing I've stated makes the quality of ball played in all-stars better than travel. But who cares in the preteen years. My son did both then. LL was the priority. If the clock was wound back to when he was a preteen I'd have him do it all over again the same way.
When my son was twelve he played a game before an estimated crowd of 800-1000. I told him to enjoy it. I told him he may not play a baseball game in front of that many people again.
Living within a three hour drive to Williamsport we went several times when my son was ten to twelve years old. There aren't any stangers at Williamsport. Everyone is connected by the game of baseball. We met interesting people from all over the country and the world. Williamsport is the Disneyland of Baseball.
When my son played only travel ball starting at thirteen he said he missed the "win or go home" aspect to all-stars. In travel ball there's always next week.
Nothing I've stated makes the quality of ball played in all-stars better than travel. But who cares in the preteen years. My son did both then. LL was the priority. If the clock was wound back to when he was a preteen I'd have him do it all over again the same way.
Nolan, I don't think I'm reading your post right. Do you mean this April to early July? (as in 2 1/2 months) If so, are you sure he threw 96 innings? My son,16, hasn't thrown 96 innings for the year.
smalltownmom - That is correct - not a typo. The team played 56 games in that time frame. 42 tournament and 14 league games. The #2 pitcher, primarily our "closer", threw 1,006 pitches in 56 innings over 30 games.
Sorry - That is not correct. Late March through July 4th. So a bit over 3 mos.