LLWS, Here We Go Again

Actually some of these kids are among the best. The LLWS kids from our area who played in the championship game also competed in high level travel ball and with less than the full complement of starters were quite competitive. A fair number of these kids are playing college ball at various levels. Afterwards many went on to play PONY league and those kids went to the PONY WS if I remember correctly. Quite of few of those LL and PONY players were drafted in the early rounds and a few who didn't get out the district were also drafted fairly early.

No, the LLWS is not the highest level of ball that you'll find in that age group but you'll certainly find some top players playing, especially from the powerhouse international teams such as Japan and Mexico among others.

I believe that the players in the LLWS are but just a small sampling of what the elite baseball players in their age groups look like. Are there other leagues with better talent? That is too hard to tell. One thing is for certain though, in recent years, America has shown they can beat the best of them from around various parts of the globe. You wouldn't be able to do that if the players playing in LL were not some of the best in the country.

Major Leaguers who have played in the Little League World Series
Wilson Alvarez (1982)
Lastings Milledge (1997)
* Jim Barbieri (1954)
Bobby Mitchell (1967)
Jason Bay (1990)
Jim Pankovitz (1968)
* Derek Bell (1980, 1981)
Yusmeiro Petit (1994)
Larvell Blanks (1962)
Marc Pisciotta (1983)
Sean Burroughs (1992, 1993)
* Boog Powell (1954)
Chin-Feng Chen (1990)
Guillermo Quiroz (1994)
Bill Connors (1954)
* Gary Sheffield (1980)
* Charlie Hayes (1977)
Carl Taylor (1954)
Ken Hubbs (1954)
Hector Torres (1958)
Keith Lampard (1958)
** Jason Varitek (1984)
Adam Loewen (1996)
Dave Veres (1978)
* Carney Lansford (1969)
** Ed Vosberg (1973)
Vance Lovelace (1975)
Dan Wilson (1981)
* Jason Marquis (1991)
* Rick Wise (1958)
Lloyd McClendon (1971)
Colby Rasmus (1999)

Notes
*Denotes player participated in Little League and Major League World Series.
**Denotes player participated in Little League World Series, College World Series and Major League World Series

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
LF,
Duh! But guess what kids make big time growth leaps over short time periods.

I guess it is a lot easier to pay a doctor to certify that a kid is younger biologically than they really are than to falsify a birth certificate. That should work out just great. Can't wait to see 16yo playing on 60' bases.

First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or pubic hair than the kid is obviously overage for Little League. It isn't always that obvious, but the dimensions aren't designed for Luke Ramirez (from a couple years back) and some other giants that play there on a yearly basis. There was an interesting study done over 50 years ago.

Here's the link: http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterEleven.html

Even if you don't agree with Marshall on everything (and I don't agree with him on many things), he still does have some interesting information.

I am speechless.

Wilson style beards are a dead giveaway though.

Son returned from a 12yo basketball tourney a few years ago saying "Dad, one of those guys had a beard!"

quote:

Originally posted by Yankeelvr:
Ok, we can all agree the best players & umpires may not be in attendance... however, how many "paid" umpires have done a game with 30K in attendance? Looked like the kids handled the situation better than the adults. Just loved the LF for GA hugging his struggling pitcher then running to his position urging the crowd to "bring it" Additionally, I'm pretty sure a good number of these kids are "travel" players. The "LL team" from HI a year or so ago was made up of a majority of a fairly accomplished travel team. You can make an argument that no single tournament has "all the best" players, especially in this age group. Did a little checking, the boys from CA are also known as "Total Baseball" in USSSA land a couple of them also playing 14AAA for HB Oilers. As many may have guessed by watching them play, this isn't your run of the mill LL all-star team.

As it is losing interest in our neck of the woods I hadn't paid much attention to LL rules in the past. Always assumed you couldn't play select/travel/whatever you want to call it and still play on LL team. I had guessed that they were all all-star teams from their respective leagues who win and advance.

That all changed last year when my then 12 year old came downstairs and turned on ESPN. He was watching the SW regional final. "Dad we played both these teams this year. One in Houston and one in Austin" I went and grabbed my scorebook and sure enough same teams we had played in a Super Series event and a Triple Crown event.

Most of these boys on the teams from the States have played a lot of non-LL baseball. They are pretty good ballplayers in our area at least. Not all are the best but certainly way better than most.

Too weird for me, guys. I'll see you in another thread.

Son played with a different youth baseball organization rather than LL - but had similar experiences. At one regional tournament (same set up - local allstar teams advance) the rumor was that one of the teams was a top travel team that incorporated an entire local program under the organizations rules just so they could play post season/ district - state - regional - WS / with the organization.

quote:

Originally posted by Low Finish:

quote:

Originally posted by CADad:
LF,
Duh! But guess what kids make big time growth leaps over short time periods.

I guess it is a lot easier to pay a doctor to certify that a kid is younger biologically than they really are than to falsify a birth certificate. That should work out just great. Can't wait to see 16yo playing on 60' bases.

First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or pubic hair than the kid is obviously overage for Little League. It isn't always that obvious, but the dimensions aren't designed for Luke Ramirez (from a couple years back) and some other giants that play there on a yearly basis. There was an interesting study done over 50 years ago.

Here's the link: http://drmikemarshall.com/ChapterEleven.html

Even if you don't agree with Marshall on everything (and I don't agree with him on many things), he still does have some interesting information.

I think I could grow mushrooms in the basement. I don't think I will though, but it's a better idea than that.

I believe inspection for pubic hair would bring a swift end to Little League Baseball. Can't we tell without doing that inspection? A little peach fuzz OK?

quote:

At one regional tournament (same set up - local allstar teams advance) the rumor was that one of the teams was a top travel team that incorporated an entire local program under the organizations rules just so they could play post season/ district - state - regional - WS / with the organization.

PONY baseball did this in an effort to make their "world series" more appealing and (I believe) hopefully get a bit of their own TV time. They enabled the creation of "Olympic Teams" comprised of players that are nominally members of a local PONY League but who play/practice from Sept through July and play Triple Crown and USSSA tournaments all season.

The result here in the Puget Sound region was the development of one particular team (sour grapes alert ) that took the Pony Regionals every year from 9U to 11U but got smeared when playing similarly constructed teams like Chino Hills, Cal at the WS play-in tournaments.

Similarly, the LL team from the Northwest that played deep in the LLWS last year had several players that played "select" and practiced together most of the year and played Triple Crown tournaments all season in addition to their nominal LL league season. Their head coach was unabashed that he coached the core of the team in something other than LL in addition to their playing in LL. They did nothing to hide it as their "select" team bags were clearly visible from the dugout during the ESPN broadcast of the Regional knockout games last August.

quote:

Originally posted by Low Finish:
... First off, it isn't terribly difficult to determine biological age from looking at someone. If the kid has a significant amount of axillary or...

"A Rabbi, a Priest, and a Minister Walk Into a Bar..."

Check please!! GED10DaD

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
I believe inspection for pubic hair would bring a swift end to Little League Baseball. Can't we tell without doing that inspection? A little peach fuzz OK?

You can tell without doing the inspection... The only thing that actually matters is skeletal growth. Skeletal growth is the biggest indicator of biological age. Seriously, just get a couple of parental volunteers and measure bones in the hands, arms, and wrists.

People aren't going to voluntarily allow their children to get X-rays, or I would say do it based on X-Rays.

Wow, this is getting ridiculous.

Point is that 13 year olds should not be playing 46' & 60'. Neither should 12 year olds for that matter.

I'm with AntzDad, off to other topics.

Very good game all around last night and how exciting for underdog Montana to pull it out.

Saw some very good heads up fielding and knowing where to throw the ball.

Looked at the roster for the West team and the youngest player had a November birthday. Effectively about half the kids had no chance of being on the all-star team going in. Not a single player born from December through April. Funny thing is that the January through March or so kids are the ones who will have an advantage come HS out in CA.

The Northwest team had more of an age distribution but the "studs" were almost all 13yo and older than the "studs" from the West team.

I agree with some of the other posters that moving the age limit to make the kids older was a mistake as it clearly increases the age bias effect by including more kids who have reached puberty. Personally I would have left it alone or made the cutoff date 8/31 so as to ensure that every player was no more than 12yo at the time of the LLWS championship game. That certainly wouldn't eliminate the problems as the main effect would have been to simply shift the "problem" birth dates but having younger kids in there overall would tend to reduce the age bias effect.

CADad, moving birth date to Jan 1 would most likely be the best deal for LL, end up with even younger bunch. Moving the cutoff date to Jan 1 would def put a tailspin into the Williamsport plans of teams who mainly play a strong level tournament ball & play the minimum Little League season as well accomplished tournament teams. Personally, I don't understand the interest in doing that. Much better youth baseball out there for 12U's on 50-70's & 54-80's. Will have the National Youth Baseball Championships on this weekend at the house & in my shop.

http://www.mlb.com/youthmajors/

My son, now 14, and I got into watching the LLWS a few years ago. I often wondered where these teams come from and the quality of the players/teams compared to my sons AAA/Major team playing mostly USSSA. No one plays LL around here. I just figured they were much better. They are playing in the LLWS after all. I just looked up the SW team from LA. They played USSSA AAA/major schedule and had a record of 8-20. I guess I have my answer. Not what I expected.
Doesn't matter - we still love watching it.

Nolan,
I think you should start a thread called, "Hey, Let's Think Up Thinly Disguised Ways to Wedge My 14 y/o Son's BB Career in to the Conversation"
...