Looking for thoughts on practice organization

Wow....the more I read on here, the better I feel about the way our team handles it's pitchers.....lol.   That's an absolutely awful way to start a season for both hitters & pitchers.  Not sure what a coach could possible hope to see in that situation.  If your hitters did well....so what, they were hitting against guys who were throwing lollipops at them.  As for the pitchers....my son can't throw strikes when he's throwing 70%...that's not the point of throwing 70%....it's to get your arm ready for when you go 100%. 

Well that certainly seems like jumping into the deep end of the pool.  But here is the thing.  How many weeks until your games start -- maybe 2-3?  IMO, there is no way your going from 0-100% in 2 weeks.  Maybe he was trying to find out who was ready to go? Did none of these pitchers work out in the offseason?  What where the coach's offseason expectations?  It would seem to me they would be throwing on their own knowing the limited time they would have to get ready once the season starts.  In my area we don't start playing games until mid march.  But we see the pitchers throwing now to get ready. 

I don't understand that approach at all.

Practices typically begin after tryouts are concluded.  Since no one is guaranteed a roster spot and therefore all must give 100% effort to win their roster spots, it follows that players should be ready to go at 100% as of the first day of tryouts.  And thereafter.

It's up to the players to manage their off seasons so that they have had the appropriate rest period and yet still reserved the appropriate amount of time to ramp up for HS ball.  I would have expected all players to be ready to go at 100% as of day one.

With that, I see no excuse for pitchers not being able to throw strikes.  Repeated walks would seem to indicate lack of pre-tryout preparation, so I can understand a coach being frustrated.  That being said, belittling teenagers is a poor (though all too common) way to deal with that frustration.  Not to mention, it does nothing to solve the problem.

There is not much that my kid's HS coach could do that would inspire me to butt in, but this might do it.

I firmly believe that pitchers should never go against batters unless they have the intention of getting the batter out, and clearly they're not doing that if they've been told to throw 70%.  But my real beef with this is a safety issue.  If you're asking kids to throw BP -- and that's what 70% is, then you put them behind an L screen. 

As for the 2-1 count, that's a good exercise for both pitchers and hitters, so yeah, it does seem too soon, but I would not have any problem with that. 

Surely, on the surface, this doesn't look right.  A few things to consider...

-In a previous post, you praised the local HS coaches.  Assuming we're talking about the same guy, he probably has a plan.

-As others touched on, this coach likely knows how much throwing these P's have been doing coming into team practices.  If most have been throwing off a mound coming in, it may not be as bad as it sounds.

We are a small/medium school with many multi-sport athletes.  Ramping up arms is a difficult proposition for us, with players coming in at different times, so we are very conservative in our approach with P's.  We started flat ground throwing and conditioning for all non-winter sports players around Thanksgiving, first two days a week, then three and finally after Jan 1, full blown daily practices.  We are just now starting to have P's throw side bullpens, short pitch counts, FB only.  We'll gradually progress and when they do first face batters, it will be FB and change only and we urge not to try to throw 100% the first time or two live.  We do keep tabs on how much pitching/throwing our winter sports P's are doing, if any.  We factor that in when we bring them in and, again, error on the side of caution. So, we would not do what you are describing.  But, if we knew all our P's were on regular programs with instructors, throwing off a mound, it would not be out of the question to do something similar to what you are describing.  I just don't like the "70%" terminology and we generally aren't yellers although I don't totally discount old-school coaching methods.

Typically, for the first 4-6 weeks of games, our starting P's are still building up innings while other schools are throwing their starters 5+ with regularity.

A couple of thoughts here:

1.  HS's are not great at putting an off season pitching program together...as stated earlier, kids are coming from Fall club ball, other sports, etc., so not effective if driven by the HC.  Each pitcher should be somewhat "mound ready" at the start of the season.  If all he did was throw long toss, then not a great off season plan.  Additionally,  waiting for HC to ramp him up is also a very bad plan.  Pitchers should not be expected to be in mid-season form on day one, but able to throw strikes??...YES.

2.  I have heard on various occasions of this concept of throwing less than 100% effort from the mound....  Unless for some rehab program, or other special circumstance, I'm not understanding any benefit from this.  Do you tell a hitter, we are going to take batting practice, or scrimmage, but just hit at 60% effort???, makes no sense.  The body will do what it is trained to do....if we don't throw from the mound at max effort, you are wasting time....you have to change mechanics to throw less than 100% effort, so why would you ever do that from a mound, and then think somehow that will translate to success at 100%???  You might limit how many pitches, what type of pitches, etc., but not 70% effort, or any effort less than 100%.

As for coach being sarcastic putting pressure on the pitchers that can't throw strikes...while it may not be very mature, or makes the coach look like a fool, I don't have a problem with a pitcher feeling anxiety on the mound....get used to it, the higher up the food chain, the more anxiety.  I heard audio from the great Vin Scully once say, correct me if I am wrong, but I think he was calling Koufax perfect game, "I would think that the mound at Dodger Stadium right now is the loneliest place in the world".....Pitchers & anxiety go hand in hand....learn how to focus, or get eaten up by it.

High school Coaches are usually not qualified to be High School Coaches!

 On many threads you will hear the same old stories about HS Coaches doing silly stuff, Moms and Dads that know what real baseball is have to hang in there until school is over.

It was a bad idea.  And as soon as he saw it going south, he should have terminated and moved to something else.

I don't understand the coach's intent and would not do this my second day.  Rather, I would be working on fundamentals and position competition.  I don't know the coach's experience, the returning players and so, that might be a factor as well.

Regarding The Doctor's comments about what is typical in high school coaches, that might be the norm in his area but I assure you it is not in the area where I live and  has not been my experience in a couple of decades of coaching HS Baseball.  

I don't understand how roster decisions are made at the conclusion of tryouts, if we start from the supposition that pitchers can't be seen pitching at that time.

The only ways to do that would be (a) if your school typically has fewer kids try out than you have spots available, so you don't have to make cuts, or (b) the coach decides prior to tryouts who's making the team and who isn't, i.e., tryouts are a sham.

If your front line pitchers are facing hitters, I think everyone should go 100%.  It wouldn't surprise me if some guys weren't totally loose yet (especially in colder climes), so velocities might not be at peak yet, but I don't see how they're ever going to get there if they don't start turning it loose.  Where you ease up on the throttle is with pitch count limits, plus you should be generous with rest intervals.   These weeks are for building stamina more so than with ramping up to full velocity.

BP is thrown by coaches, non-pitchers (esp. infielders who often have that ability to snap throw with accuracy) or machines.  Guys who are thought of as pitchers face hitters only to get them out, if they can.  Bullpens are for working on things.  In live action, pitchers should work on pitch sequencing, location, and the art of getting batters out.  Their catchers should be learning each pitcher's strengths, weaknesses, and differences in approach, so that the tandem are ready to work together when the season starts.  Hitters see the real pitchers to start working on applying what they've learned in practice to game situations -- in terms of seeing a mix of pitches, in terms of situational hitting, in terms of showing knowledge of the strike zone and strike zone discipline, in terms of mental approach to get a pitch to drive, etc.

Coach B25, nor mine, in our area.

I would not have set up what that coach set up; seems like a bit of a dichotomy: "You're ready to throw off a mound, to a batter, in a 2-1 count, BUT, you're not ready to throw full speed"  Should probably be one or the other....

That said, I'm sorry parents, but as a coach who feels like he knows what he's doing (most of the time), but is in no way perfect....butt out!  Or at least wait some practices before you go making snap judgments.  I don't know what the coach was doing or what he thought he'd see, but then, I'm not him.  Maybe he had very specific reasons for doing this.  Maybe he was trying to prove a point?  Maybe he knows that kids can't really tell what 70% is, and just wanted them not to overthrow and hurt themselves.  Is he a brand new coach?  Then maybe he really doesn't have a plan and doesn't know what he's doing.  But if he's coached for a while, maybe his program is just new TO YOU.

I think all coaches deserve a little deference to see how things work out.  And I think parents have a tendency to take an practice like the one we're talking about and turn it in to the most horrible and drastic thing they've ever seen.  The truth is, I think most of these kids will recover from his (IMO) jerk move of yelling at them and belittling them, and they'll be ok.  If he continues to do that every practice.......well, that will be a different story.

Finally, Doctor, I hope your reference is to the coaches in YOUR little area.  If you are suggesting the MAJORITY of HS coaches across the US are incompetent, I'd certainly like to know where you get your data.  I've now coached for 30 years in 4 states, and while incompetent or mean-spirited coaches do appear, I can say that of the hundreds and hundreds of coaches I've worked with, coached against, coached with, spoken to and had beers with, the VAST majority care deeply about baseball and about the kids they coach.  And I will say, at the risk of p*ssing off more people, the VASTS majority of high school coaches still know more about baseball and coaching than the average parent.

Oh, and by the way, thanks for letting me know that I've been wasting my time for all these years on something that isn't "real" baseball....

TCB1-

1. I did butt out. never said a word to him and never will. Just wanted to know if i am crazy or not. I am just a dumb father who knows nothing about baseball, so I am looking for feedback on right and wrong.

2. Not new coach, actually very tenured.

3. Still believe throwing 70% is not functional and waste of time, even if I am a stupid parent. Training in 5th gear and throwing in 2nd gear changes mechanics and wastes time. The ALL KNOWING baseball coaches should already be aware of this.

4. Spoke with well known former Division 1, SEC coach about this topic. He thought it was a joke and could not be happening.

5. Most pitchers were ready physically to throw off mound BUT not at 70% and in a 2-1 count. Big difference here.

6. Good coaches have practice agenda's and execute them. The hitters did not hit and the pitchers were not successful. Tell me, was the practice a success? Was it planned good? I think you know the answer.

Stupid parent out

Agree 100% with Midlo.

Not much time to evaluate, make cuts, etc., need to have some amount of "real" game intensity competition to sort out positions, rotation, and cuts.

My son is 2017 Freshman, his HS just started season last Friday (1st day of practice), it was cold, so they practiced in their indoor facility....they hit, practiced picks, and went over bunt coverages...the next day (Saturday), weather was good, so they practiced from 9am - 5pm.  9-12 was on the field doing fielding drills, cut offs, fly ball priority, etc...then 1 hour break for lunch, followed by 3 hour split squad scrimmage....

I was told the returning #1 would throw the first 2 innings for one side, and Jr. would throw the first 2 innings for the other side (40 pitch count limit)....coach instructed pitchers to work on pitch sequence, and getting outs in as little amount of pitches as possible...Both kids faced the minimum 6 hitters each, with 10 Ks....the team graduated their two catchers from last season, so it gave the catchers a chance to start learning how each individual pitcher likes to work the hitters....I never saw Jr. shake off more signs than he did in those two innings...but they will be on the same page soon, since they already are working on it....

The hitters finally broke through in the later innings, and even had a few that went deep, but definitely the hitting is trailing the pitching, which is typical at the start of a season.

I do think unless you don't have to cut players, this is necessary to gain the knowledge on who makes JV, who makes V, and who needs to be cut.  Whether the OP's HS coach had some motivation to run the practice he ran, the way he did, is not clear, but as TCB1 stated, I think time will tell, and if he has been around for a while, he likely has an idea about what he is trying to accomplish.

In my case, Jr. is VERY fortunate to have the HS coach he has, although there are varying degrees of good coaches, there is something to be said for the ones that are  students of the game, passionate, and in it for the right reasons.  My hat off to those!!!!

 Don't feel guilty TCB1, and I don't know what you mean about my little area. There are 15 HS in our little county and I know kid's and parent's at every one of them. All the private schools except one are good with good coaches. And there are 3 public schools that the parents speak well of. But that leaves 9 schools that are a total wreck with coaches that do silly stuff, like the original post stated. I have said before on here how lucky kid's are if they go to a quality HS program, there are a few. You can take up for the art teacher trying to coach baseball if you want, but I bet you enjoy pounding them and padding your record every chance you get.

PS: Would you like to start a thread and ask what is the worst thing your HS coach had you do?...I didn't think so

EC:

1. I did butt out. never said a word to him and never will. Just wanted to know if i am crazy or not. I am just a dumb father who knows nothing about baseball, so I am looking for feedback on right and wrong. Was referring as much to another poster who talked about butting in as I was to you.  I commend you on your restraint, but you did mention "ALL" the other parents and I was reading between the lines that we were hearing about some pretty serious grumblings from those parents.  And if you're just coming on here to 'vent" instead of stepping in, then again, I commend you.

2. Not new coach, actually very tenured.Well then this tells me he has a track record. So what is it?  Successful program?  Well known to be crackpot?  Runs kids off?  Gets the most out of his players?  I think if you have a record of success at ANY job, you should be given a bit of deference.  Any coach could have someone take a "snapshot" of something he's done and it would seem confusing or strange to other coaches or parents.  If he has a good track record, give him some rope.  If he has a long history of strange practices, well....maybe something needs addressed.

3. Still believe throwing 70% is not functional and waste of time, even if I am a stupid parent. Training in 5th gear and throwing in 2nd gear changes mechanics and wastes time. The ALL KNOWING baseball coaches should already be aware of this.  Many programs will have pitchers throw at less than 100% to work on mechanics, until that pitchers is ready to go.  Generally it is done flat ground and to a catcher, not in a scrimmage, but I'm sorry I don't agree that a kid has to change his mechanics to throw at less than 100%...and I KNOW that using different mechanics one time for 40 or so throws WILL NOT change mechanics.  Wasting time?  Who's time? Yours? His?...hey I don't know what he was looking for, and, NEITHER DO YOU!.....Finally, who is the "ALL KNOWING" coach you sarcastically refer to?  Me, him, or ALL coaches.

4. Spoke with well known former Division 1, SEC coach about this topic. He thought it was a joke and could not be happening.  And I bet if you asked this same coach if he ever did a drill that others disagreed with or would find strange if they didn't know what is was, he would say Yes....Further, the difference between 1st day high school athletes (or non-athletes as the case may be), and seasoned D1 college athletes is apples and oranges.  The things I HAVE to do with my baseball players will never be done with D1 college players.  I think what he did is strange, too...but I don't think it's a big deal.

5. Most pitchers were ready physically to throw off mound BUT not at 70% and in a 2-1 count. Big difference here.Wait, what?  They're physically able to throw off of a mound, which is more stressful on the arm, but they are not able to throw at 70% which is LESS stressful on the arm. And they apparently aren't read to throw on a 2-1 count which really shouldn't matter to the pitcher because the coach is apparently just wanting them to throw it over the plate.  Sorry, but if my pitchers are in pitching condition to throw off the mound, they are able to throw to hitters and they can throw on a 2-1 count....would I do it? Haven't in 30 years, but I don't think his choice to do this is anything drastic.

6. Good coaches have practice agenda's and execute them. The hitters did not hit and the pitchers were not successful. Tell me, was the practice a success? Was it planned good? I think you know the answer.You're right, they should have a practice plan.  And I am guessing almost every coach has had a day where they didn't have their practice plan ready and had to wing it.  Or, maybe that WAS his practice plan:  "Today we're going to have a scrimmage just to see where everyone is at"...then he watches to see who hustles; who goes to what position; who seems mentally prepared to hit or pitch or field.  I have no idea, and, again, neither do you.  Was the practice a success? For who?  Individual players?  Maybe, maybe not. Maybe it was for the coach because he saw some things he was looking to see.  That's kind of my point: I can't crawl inside that guys head and neither can you.  Maybe he has no clue what he's doing and maybe he's dumb like a fox.  I don't know, but I'm not going to judge him on ONE practice that confuses me....and maybe you won't either, but it certainly sounds that way.

 Maybe the hitters didn't hit and the pitchers didn't pitch because it's the FIRST practice.  That doesn't mean it was a failure of a practice.  Sometimes you learn things at bad practices. Sometimes the kids do to.....

Stupid parent out

You refer to yourself as "dumb" or "stupid" several times in your post.  I never used either of those words or insinuated that about you.  I want to make that clear.  I do not think you are dumb or stupid, nor do I automatically think ALL or MOST parents are stupid or dumb.  I simply said that in my experience, the vast majority of Coaches I know knew more about baseball than the average parent.  If you want to take that personally, I can't stop you, but I don't believe I ever "went there" about you.

I am BOTH a parent and a coach.  I have not always agreed with my kids' coaches.  But certainly when they played sports other than the one's I've coached, even though I read up on those sports, their coaches knew more than I did.  And I deferred to them, and will continue to do so.  That's all I'm suggesting here.

A lot of different items going on in this thread, but the biggest red flag to me is pitchers being directed to throw at 70% effort to live batters. Throw 70% during your first bp mound session of the season. But not to live hitters.  Overall though, I agree that parents do need to "butt out" and let coaches run their programs. 

The Doctor,

That's exactly what I mean by your small area... you are using a sample size of 15 schools and translate that into "High School coaches are usually not qualified"... I just think that is a bit of a leap from 15 to what appears to be an indictment of the majority of coaches everywhere.

And please note that you base this not on your own firsthand experience with these 15 coaches, but with second hand reviews by other parents you know, from SOME of those other schools.  I bet, without knowing your area, I could find parents or players from just about all of those schools who would have GOOD things to say about those same coaches.....I won't defend incompetent coaches ( I know they exist), but your statement is painting with a VERY broad brush a profession that I take a great deal of pride in. 

As for your last comment, I'm really not sure what you mean?  Please clarify.  If you want to know about my high school coach, I don't think he did anything "stupid".  I don' t think he was a great coach, either.  He LOVED baseball as much or more than anyone I've ever met and he instilled that love in a lot of kids.  I don't remember him teaching me anything.  Luckily, he had some very good assistant coaches who DID.  That said, it was 30 years ago and I think most high school coaches today are much more motivated than in the "old days"...and certainly the coaches in my league, and my corner of the state are....

So I guess the other question is:  If high school baseball isn't "REAL" baseball, why do you even care to address these issues? Just killing time until the REAL sport of summer baseball starts in a few months?  Strange, I thought they were the same thing....

1. Is this good for pitchers? NO!  They should have a few weeks of long toss, conditioning and bullpens.

2. Is it OK for the coach to scream, rant and yell at the pitchers for struggling in this format? Coach actually yelling at pitchers " ball one, ball two, ball eight". This caused panic and more anxiety to throw strikes.  No, but not a major issue.

3. What do most coaches do with pitchers before they throw to live batters? What prep is needed to lead up to throwing live off the mound?  See answer to no. 1.

4. Any coaches do things like this with no mound throwing leading up to it? I hope not!

I am seeing a lower quality of coaching at the HS level as time goes on.  I am see a better quality on the club and scout level. 

1,  Agreed,  But we don't know if the P's he threw MIGHT have been at that point. 

2.  Agreed

3.  Agreed.  Probably not too detrimental if kept at a LOW pitch count.

4.  Agreed.

Last point, I'm not sure if I agree.  It almost seems that it isn't quality, but experience.(Guess you could equate those)  I think in the "old days" around here anyway, MOST summer ball teams were just that: summer baseball, a little more "fun", play in some tourneys, etc.  There were always a couple of very good, high level, teams around that had superior coaching for those kids who were REALLY good, but for the most part coached by a dad or maybe a younger, less experienced coach, cutting his teeth.

Now a days, (again, around here) there are many, many summer teams and almost all promotes itself as SELECT, or HIGH-LEVEL or EXTREME or etc., and there are many more summer teams to play for .  Certainly, there are many more high level teams in the summer than there used to be, but also a lot that "dress themselves up" like a high level team, but maybe arent that good.

But when good summer teams are paying coaches, and you can coach in games at 6:00 PM instead of 4:30 (like HS), and it is better weather, I think you definitely have a "drain" of some good coaches transitioning over from HS to summer programs.  Certainly, if HS baseball is not considered "real baseball", then I would certainly think some coaches would gravitate away from it to summer select ball.

The Doctor, why the need to change the implication of my posts?  By inserting "little" into the response, you totally took my post out of context.  I stated "area" which can be defined in many ways but in no way discerns "little."  So, they evidence you cite in support of what you assert is other parent's opinions?  Wow that makes your point stronger.  How do we know those parents know squat?  You then want to come with the art teacher as the baseball coach?  Perhaps there are fine ones out there.  How do I know?  However, what I do know is that in my area a large majority of the teams are coached by former college players.   That would be public and private.  Nowhere in my area does anyone believe that the private schools have better coaches than the public.  The Doctor, I don't know your area but apparently it isn't a baseball hot bed.  If it were, every school would have great coaches.  I say this having coached a few state championship teams.  Having coached teams that have won 64 games in a row, gone 40-0 a few years later and having produced many HS All Americans.  Of course I have a lot to learn.  However, I don't think someone would look at my programs and think that we are clueless.  (At least the awards on the wall and the coaching associations that ask me to speak to coaches in their associations represents some knowledge base.  LOL)

BTW, start that thread on what the worst thing your HS coach made you do.  I doubt it will be representative of the majority of HS coaches. 

I agree that the 70% throwing is a red flag.  Again, I don't know the coaches, returning players etc.  What I typically did with my pitchers is have them throw a limited bullpen that first day, tape it and then have the trainer work with them.  From there, I could assess a lot of stuff.  For example, if one pitcher looked to be reporting in shape, I could create a different early season throwing program as opposed to the pitcher that reported who had little time to throw in the off season.  An example would be the basketball player who remained loyal to the sport in season and so, didn't throw.  I never had pitches throw to hitters that first week to week.  They threw to hitters the first Saturday after tryouts when we had a practice, not a scrimmage.  We had our parent's meeting after that.  My pitchers threw under very controlled conditions and never thew "BP" style to my hitters.  

That is what we did.  Nothing special.

 So I get it, if what you say is true the parents that liked their coaches and said they taught good baseball should be deleted also from the sample, since I didn't see it first hand.

PS: I could of said many instead of usually, but it is a mess in many areas and the kids in the inner city are really struggling. not even the RBI program will help much.

I hate these threads because we are getting a small snapshot into what a coach is doing and everyone becomes an internet expert.  Yes there are things going on that make sense but as TCB1 said we don't know the whole story.  I would love to know what this guy's record is.  If he has a great track record then he deserves some leeway.  If he doesn't then it's time to ask some questions.

BTW what's wrong with an art teacher coaching baseball or football or basketball or cross country or whatever sport you want???  Maybe he's the best qualified because he's played at a high level, coached under some really experienced / good coaches, been to many clinics and was successful with other teams.  Why do we have to automatically assume he's no good because of what he teaches or just because he is a teacher?  The teaching profession is a profession that gets little respect as is but it's starting to be that high school coaches that teach gets about the same amount of respect.  

I know there has to be more good than bad coaches out there, but my latest frustration is over 2 kids that can't get released to play ball since HS season last year. One of them involves a 144 pitch count in cold weather, and the other had a bad knee and the coach wouldn't play him but worked his butt off in practice where he hobbled his way into needing reconstruction. I am happy for kids that have good baseball experiences at HS, but like anything bad news travels. I see why so many are pushing for club ball at the same time as HS.

I'm wondering if this is true only at the smaller schools?  

I'm having to have my freshman son take extra batting practice at home to counteract the ridiculous hitting technique his HS coach is instilling in the kids. 

This is by far my favorite time on this website. Right around Feb/March, all the posts about HS baseball coaches/upset parents/bashing begins.  It's hilarious and most of the time untrue ranting.  

 James G, I don't know if I would feel comfortable calling most of the people liars on here just because the shared some unpleasant experiences in HS with the board. If someone brags about a good thing in HS or anything else, my thinking is they took the time to tell us about it and it must be truthful. Or I guess I could assume it to be untrue like you did.

Come on Doc - You make a blanket statement that "most HS baseball coaches aren't qualified"? There's no basis for that... even if you believe some of the anecdotal gripes on this board have some merit... Which many don't.  

The issue isn't necessarily people lying, it's people not knowing what they don't know. Case in point is this thread... Coach runs a routine hitting drill first practice of the year. Dad watches practice and thinks it's a whacky new swing being taught... to the entire team. Tells player to "ignore the coach"... always sound advice and a fine life lesson! Don't agree with your boss or client or professor? Ignore them!

http://community.hsbaseballweb...76#12275093647120976

So after all of one practice, another coach bashing post goes up and gets responses about how bad the coach is... all the while oblivious to the reality of what was actually happening on the field.

EC -- you may already know this, but regarding HS Coaches not having time to develop talent, and primarily just focusing on putting together the best 9 in the lineup...that is the norm, not the exception.  Some aspects of this I also don't like, but in all honesty, unless a HS program has many dedicated single sport kids, with a HS off season program, how does a coach with only a few weeks before games start have time to focus on player development.  Studies show changes to mechanics (pitching or hitting) take 1000's + of repetitions....not gonna happen during short HS season.

I prepared all of the kids I have coached going into HS to not rely on the HS coaches to teach mechanics and develop, but instead to do what you have done, which is deliver to the coach a ready to play sound player.  Coaches need to win games, so writing the lineup with the best 9 is his main focus...if he can get any amount of player development in during season, that is icing on the cake.  Again, if there is an off season program that is taught by the HC, then you will see whether that coach has the ability to develop talent or not.  Additionally, I agree with you that there are kids with great ability that either don't have the resources to develop their skills away from HS, or get lost...that is part of the HS equation.  The argument of a coach not being able to develop a player is not necessarily a negative reflection on the HC, but rather a function of time, or lack thereof.

 A good HS coach must feel totally overwhelmed with so much to do and such a short time.

A lot of that in in jest.  At least from my perspective.  I call them Driver's Ed teachers or Dodgeball instructors, because in fact my HS coaches where Driver's Ed teachers.  And it doesn't have anything to do with it, except the likelihood of an art teacher being a sports coach is rare.  However, the reality is that many HS coaches are teachers first.  When they coach, they don't get paid proportionate to the time required to build a really good program.  Coaching requires a passion.  Frankly, some just mail it in and they get away with it.  My son's future HS had their football team not win a game for three years.  They make "political" decisions rather than decisions to build their program.  It is what it is, but I am no longer willing to give them the benefit of the doubt just because they have "coach" on their shirt. I have been around long enough that an hour or two of observation can tell me if a guy is a good coach or not. 

 The art teacher signed up to coach BB for the extra $1200(not a baseball guy) And Soylant, I retracted a little on my all coaches statement and explained the current frustrations that some of our parents are having. But I have to think there is credibility to the bad stories as well as the good.

Our former art teacher won two state titles in football. 

We have a school in our area that is growing leaps and bounds.  As many of us say, the rich keep getting richer.  All of the studs from small communities in our area tend to end up at that school.  Thank goodness, our studs tend to stay with us. I don't believe that they recruit.  I do believe that they draw because they are like a small college.  Heck, a mid D-I.  It is hard to beat them in anything.  You can't get a seat at any sporting event. Everyone in that community wears their apparel.  If I did not believe that my child, when she was in HS could compete against that team/school and/or if I thought that her coach was not good, I would have moved there myself.  I taught at that school for 12 years and was there when the trend first started.  A couple of state titles in Baseball began the migration.  Maybe people need to consider that stuff if HS sports is that important to them and/or their child's athletic development. 

Doc, it is overwhelming to coach HS.  You have to be everything to everyone.  I was never good at that so I stopped trying.  The trick to me, and what I am often asked to speak about, is that a coach has to build a program and not just coach a team.  If they can achieve that, then the system makes players more familiar with all expectations.  From there a coach can get so much more done in the little time before they start playing games. 

Hey Doc - Fair enough. Too many uber long posts on this thread so I haven't read everything and missed your further comments. There's no doubt that there are poor coaches out there, believe me I've seen my share. Just think parents need to generally give the benefit of the doubt and also not have unrealistic expectations.  HS is a different scenario from club baseball. It's a chance to enjoy baseball purely as a team playing together for school pride. I think there is big value in that experience.