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I have seen a lot of discussions about differences between the two, etc.  But, have never really seen how people would choose between the 2.  In my scenario, your options are (and only thinking in terms of baseball...not academics):

 

D1----not in the top 10-12 conferences.  Teams have typically had losing records.  No real tournament success.  Chance of NCAA tournament run small....but as we have seen with some schools...not impossible (although very infrequent).  No real big reputation for getting kids drafted.

 

or 

 

D2----top end program that competes in NCAA tournament every year.  Team that has had success and is World Series contender every year.  Top 10-20 team most years.

 

Seems like a lot of kids have this choice every year.......curious to see how you would all choose.

 

 

JB

 

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Great question.  Of course, it ultimately is your son's choice, but assuming he were on the same page - option B hands down.  I believe floridafan can shed some nice light on this topic.

 

Darin Mastroianni who is now in the big leagues started his career at a D1 and ended up transferring to a D2.  He became an All-American, led his team to the NCAA championships, and was drafted by the Toronto Blue Jays.  floridafan's son was drafted out of the Univerity of Tampa which is a perennial national power.  I've always said this and some disagree, but I would rather win at the D2 or D3 level than be on a loser at the D1 level. 

I agree with CD. Only other thing I would take into consideration is playing time. If the D2 is recruiting your son they probably believe he can start there. Not sure where you are in the journey but try and watch some games of both teams. Honestly ask your self if your son can compete. It is no good going to the competitive team if you are on the bench.

All else being equal go with the winning tradition.

My son chose the D2.  The argument you gave in your original post was the exact argument his D2 coaches gave to convince him to go there.  Chances are much better to go to the World Series with the D2 team.  From watching D1 & D2, the biggest difference I see is the depth of the pitching in D1.  Top D2 teams can field and they can definitely hit.  Most have a very good starting rotation, but things drop after that.  So you wind up having higher scoring games.  I might not be totally accurate, but it is my observation.

 

Renegades5, if you don't mind my asking, where did your son commit to?  We may windup running into each other.

Originally Posted by Renegades5:

bballman.....son committed to St. Cloud State.  Last year, they came 1 game short of World Series.  They beat Central Missouri and Southern Arkansas (twice) in the regional....but lost to Minnesota State (Mankato) who came in 2nd in World series.

 

JB


Awesome!!  My son plays for Columbus State University.  We contend every year, but didn't go last year.  Hoping for better things over the next few years.  I'll be following you guys - Good Luck and congratulations on the commit!!

We sent some stuff to Columbus State.  Tough to get down south from Chicago enough to get a lot of exposure.   If I had to do it over again, I would have spent way more time on the D2 schools much earlier.   Looked at Lee U in Tennessee....and UNC Pembroke and Delta State expressed some interest but by that time son was ready to be done.

 

Hope to see you in Cary in 2015!

 

JB

Originally Posted by RJM:

Low D1 or D2? It depends which one is showing the love versus interest. I'd also be looking at the roster to see my chances of cracking the lineup. I'd rather win at a D2 than lose at a D1. Tampa could beat a lot of D1's. They get D1 transfers who don't want to sit out a year.


Ditto, what RJM said. 

 

In addition, I would want to see them play games/practice in the flesh rather than rely on a roster, or a coaches promise or guess before making a decision.  I'd want to know how I stack up, and my chances to make the lineup/get in games.  Recruiting coaches will tell you what you want to hear.   I want to see it.

 

Based on what bballman said (above) and a business partner told me a couple nights ago over cocktails (former D2 World Series position player), the pitching situation is not deep in D2.   So, there may be a huge opportunity there if he is a pitcher. 

My guy had opportunities at several D-1's and D-2's. One of the D-1's was (is) a top contender each year in the ACC. It came down to who showed the most love. One out of state D-1 offered what amounted to a 60% scholarship and the other was as a recruited walk on. The D-2's were closer to 100% when all aid was was calculated and they were very aggressive in their recruiting. The out of state D-1 was pretty aggressive as well, but the costs were still out of our budget. My son eventually settled on the D-2 and had post season play for the years he was there. He played virtually every inning of every game and we were able to attend every collegiate game he played.

The only thing that causes me any look back was a statement by the recruiter of the ACC D-1 who is no longer at this program. He stated that if my son went the D-2 route he would probably not be drafted until his senior year, and that if he was at their D-1 he might go after his Junior year and either way would receive more money out of his D-1. In hindsight he may have been correct on those counts. However, looking back we are all thrilled with the experience he had while playing in college.

I am a believer in go where they love you, and he did chose University of Tampa due to the number of players drafted out of their program and their winning record. Funny thing that one of the D-2's that recruited him wanted him for their Short Stop (he primarily played 3rd) and that program went on to win the World Series that year,lol. Barry University.

Playing on a winning team is a heck of a lot more fun than playing on a losing one. It is also a lot more fun playing than sitting on the bench. Go where you are loved is huge. Do not underestimate the coaching situation also, Go where there is a solid reputation(s) and while I do know this for a fact but it would seem to me that there would be a higher level of coaching at a winning lower level program than a middle to lower level loosing D1. At least there would be more stability

 

I know my that my son has more fun in conference tournaments and the NCAA World Series tournaments than the do during their regular season.High intensity close scoring games that mean something are to be cherished. 

 

There is a lot of D1 talent on D2 teams. Especially in the south. Many D1 guys transfer after a year if they don't play as much as they think they should. Also many juco guys who originally go juco due to grades don't earn enough credits at the juco for D1 enrollment. They wind up at D2's also.

 

I also believe it's pitching depth that is a big difference. A lot of D2's have one or two pitchers at 90-92. Where as big D1's will have a more than that.

I will come at you from the other direction then most who have responded so far. My son is at a school who's conference is most definitely not in the top 15 in the country and some years not even in the top 20 (similar to what the OP posted). In any given year only the tournament winner is going to the regionals, and typically that team is 2 and done. My son was also recruited by some of the powers in the NE-10 and the Sunshine State Conference.

 

For him it came down to the fact that the academics where better at the school he is currently at, he was not a "blue chip" player coming out of HS, and it appeared at the time (and has come true) that he would be given an opportunity to play as a two-way player right away. Had he developed into a blue chip college player (he has not) he still could have still had an opportunity on the pro level. This is what went into his thought process when deciding where to go, and what schools look at.

 

Four years later, he will graduate with a great college degree at a school with a fine academic reputation and most of it paid for by an athletic scholarship, while having the chance to "play" all 4 years of D1 baseball . There was certainly nothing wrong with that.

Last edited by birdman14

Birdman...congratulations to your son!  Absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Academics can be a huge part of the decision making process....and for a lot of kids should be the major factor.

 

I was really focusing on the baseball side of things.  Many of the D1's out there are NOT high academic schools.....so just looking at how people compare the low level D1 to the high level D2 from a baseball perspective....all else (academics, etc) being equal.

 

Thanks!

 

JB

Renegades5, when we really get underneath the top level D2 vs. mid-level D1 comparison, my perspective is your questions will find pretty good answers when the focus is on the strength of the coaches and their actual coaching...how good are the staffs of each program in terms of coaching and especially developing players.

Since he is an easy target to illustrate my point, take a look at the history of Coach Gilmore at Coastal Carolina.  He has been a tireless worker and he developed players who ended up developing his program into one which is on the national stage every year.For a long time, he didn't necessarily get the top recruits. He got really good players with a blue collar attitude and he coached/coaches the heck out of them. In addition, he surrounded himself with coaches who knew what they were doing and how to develop players. On the flip side, there is one national program which has had  a number of highly ranked recruits who struggled during their college careers but are flourishing in MLB.

To be quite candid, there are D2 staffs who can coach circles around some D1 programs.  On the flip side, though, there are likely some D2 staffs who can recruit the best darn players somewhat by success and reputation and the quality of the player and attrition keeps the program really good, not the coaching and development.

For the mid-level D1 types your describe, the same considerations will apply but be harder to figure out. If the program is a mid-level D1 and not going anywhere, it will seem like the coaching won't be as strong.  Sometimes that will be true. Sometimes, however,  there are program issues outside the control of the coaches(funding and recruiting budgets being the most obvious and perhaps important)  which cause the end results for a staff which can really coach kids.

For this, I might point to a certain Assistant Head Coach at the current national champion.  The guy can coach baseball with the very, very best.  Before he went to UCLA, the mid-level D1 program where he was the head coach struggled.  It was not because they not well coached.

I am sort of saying the question, in my view and rear view mirror, is easy: find the best coaches who can teach the game and develop players. How to get the answer to that easy question can be pretty darn challenging for the college recruit and their parents. 

Very good post, infielddad.  In Bum, Jr's case he went to a Pac-10 D1 where he was marginalized before transferring to a Big-12 D1 and things finally worked out.  I would have been very nervous about Bum, Jr. committing to a D-2 for four years.

 

At the time Bum, Jr. committed to his first D1 he had a great offer from a national champion Juco (Yavapai).  In retrospect he probably should have taken that offer.  Going from a top Juco to D1 seems better than hoping for exposure at a D2.  IMHO.

Infielddad makes important points about development. 

 

In all three divisions, there are some coaches whose strategy is to recruit & sort (i.e., bring in lots of recruits every year, play whoever wins the internal competition, encourage the others to move on to make room for the next big batch of recruits), and there are some coaches whose strategy is to develop.  

 

Generally, schools that can attract enough talent to be recruit & sort programs do so; schools that can't recruit as successfully try to make up for it with more development attention.  Obviously some coaches are much better at it than others.  A very small number of coaches excel at both, and we watch them on TV in June.

 

Also, even at schools where coaches have great reputations for development, you have to ask who gets the development attention.  All coaches are inclined to give the bulk of their one-on-one coaching attention to the players who are already starting or in the rotation because that's where they'll see the quickest payback in terms of wins and losses.  

 

The player who is a "project" (i.e., arrives on campus more than a year away from contending for playing time), had better hope he is at one of the few schools that will work with him and wait for him to develop. 

 

Although it's probably true that lower division schools are less likely to be able to execute a recruit & sort strategy and more likely to emphasize longer-term development, you can't tell what kind of program a particular school has just by knowing what division it is in.

 

Some of those lower tier D1's with less than full funding employ a strategy of playing for the occasional competitive year by allocating more of their money and development resources to certain year groups.  These schools can offer great development opportunities to the right sort of player who comes along at the right time.

 

On the other hand, some elite D2's feature many players who transferred from major conference D1's after not winning starting roles as freshmen. Many of them were pro prospects out of high school who transfer to D2 instead of a midmajor D1 because they aren't willing to sit out a second year.  I watched a D2 game last spring alongside FloridaFan and Backstop-17.  The roster was stacked with stud D1 refugees, and about a half dozen were drafted at the end of the season.  A graduating high school player with mid-major offers who picks one of these D2's because he thinks he'll get more development attention at a D2 than a D1 will very likely be disappointed.

 

There is nothing inherently right or wrong with either approach.  The important thing is for players to have an accurate understanding of which environment is most likely to help them fulfill their potential, then find a school that offers that environment and, as RJM says, loves them.    

 

Best wishes,

 

Last edited by Swampboy

college parent  that is not exactly true. Sons Juco  here in Florida, Southern Conference, last two years saw plenty of top tier pitching, plenty of pro prospects. He made first team all conference last year and 6 of those kids were drafted. I think it depends on area and program. Son went D2 here in Florida. Plenty of very strong D2s here in Florida including most of sunshine state conference, which has defending D2 champs.  

Originally Posted by oldmanmoses:

college parent  that is not exactly true. Sons Juco  here in Florida, Southern Conference, last two years saw plenty of top tier pitching, plenty of pro prospects. He made first team all conference last year and 6 of those kids were drafted. I think it depends on area and program. Son went D2 here in Florida. Plenty of very strong D2s here in Florida including most of sunshine state conference, which has defending D2 champs.  

I think you misunderstand my comment.  JC positon players are drafted from all over the place every year, no question,  however you don't see many going in the first three rounds that aren't named Harper.  The pitching competition the JC players are generally going against is not the same as the ACC/SEC/PAC10 etc.so the scouts "discount" the player in terms of draft position.  My son was  told "we like you but to draft you higher$ we need to see how you hit against better pitching everyday". My sons JC team starting rotation probebley threw 83,87,90, while his ACC team starting rotation threw 92(L),93, 95. 

Originally Posted by Consultant:

what are your goals your sons goals and objectives?

watching the Tigers Oakland game. 10 players played in our events.

they all had goals and objectives. be real!,

 

Bob

Thanks Bob - love the response!

We always need to have our son's best interests when they are invited/offered at any school.  My perspective is academics come first.  Chances of playing ball at any level above college (any level - D1 through DIII) are very slim.  For many parents that may sound harsh - and I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.  Before I hear all the "what's your son's GPA, ACT/SAT score" - he's not going to be a brain surgeon, top 15% of his 900+ class and we're preaching grades first.

 

On another note - I'm a parent that can't afford to travel / or won't take my son out of high school to play on the PG games that are always going on - can someone please explain to me where all these kids come from?  I'm confused - are all these parents putting athletics first before school?  Seems to me that some folks are all about the PG rankings, is that people think that is what is takes to get coaches to notice you? Not in our case - and NO, our son is not a pitcher.  Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against PG. 

 

Please don't ask me how my son is doing - we're pleased with his baseball skills as well.  Tough Texas District. Started sophomore year - 1st team all district.

 

Be happy for your son - have you asked him what's important to him? 

Last edited by ilovebaseball

Daughter had to make this choice.  Recruited by one top program which went again to NCAA College World Series.  Most schools mid D-I and a few low D-I.  D-II entered the picture when one of the coaches recruiting her to a D-I became the HC of the D-II. In the end, the prospect of helping them build a program and play everyday was more appealing so she picked the D-II.  Team went 41-13 last year.

 

I've coached a lot of guys who have gone on to play pro ball.  Almost all of them went the D-II route.

Here's the thing to be concerned with at the D2 level, many of the D2 teams will have teams with up to 60 players and field JV Teams which play other JV squads and area JC's in the region. Plus you have JC kids and D1 kids who transfer into the D2 schools which may add to the frustration of the larger than expected squad and having to wait your turn to play. Many times it is easier for a player to see "real" playing time all be it limited at a D1 as a frosh/soph while many kids at D2 have to wait their turn behind upper-classmen while on the JV squad and not even travel with the big team.. D1 schools have a limited amount of players on the squad and even freshmen will get some ab's or innings during midweek games plus the opportunity to play on better summer league teams where scouting takes place.  Nothing wrong with playing with a good D2 just make sure you know what you may be getting yourself into.

Great thread, been waiting to see a lot of responses.  My son finds himself in this very situation.  Knowing he is not DI at this time, but projects very well, he is being recruited by a low level DI, and a lot of JUCO's.  The low level DI, not fully funded, shows promise of seeing lots of action right away due to limited LHP's on the squad, but the love is strong.  JUCO's, he'll know he has to go in and fight.  He knows there are no guarantee's either way.  He has a tough decision to make. It's both nerve racking and exciting watching your child grow up, and developing their decision making process.

Originally Posted by ilovebaseball:
Originally Posted by Consultant:

what are your goals your sons goals and objectives?

watching the Tigers Oakland game. 10 players played in our events.

they all had goals and objectives. be real!,

 

Bob

Thanks Bob - love the response!

We always need to have our son's best interests when they are invited/offered at any school.  My perspective is academics come first.  Chances of playing ball at any level above college (any level - D1 through DIII) are very slim.  For many parents that may sound harsh - and I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.  Before I hear all the "what's your son's GPA, ACT/SAT score" - he's not going to be a brain surgeon, top 15% of his 900+ class and we're preaching grades first.

 

On another note - I'm a parent that can't afford to travel / or won't take my son out of high school to play on the PG games that are always going on - can someone please explain to me where all these kids come from?  I'm confused - are all these parents putting athletics first before school?  Seems to me that some folks are all about the PG rankings, is that people think that is what is takes to get coaches to notice you? Not in our case - and NO, our son is not a pitcher.  Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against PG. 

 

Please don't ask me how my son is doing - we're pleased with his baseball skills as well.  Tough Texas District. Started sophomore year - 1st team all district.

 

Be happy for your son - have you asked him what's important to him? 

It's great if your son is getting attention without having to travel. But,there are a lot of us out here where that is not the case.  As far as pulling you child out to attend a showcase/tournament event, it does not mean that you are sacrificing grades.  In my sons case, if he does not do the work ahead of time, then it's a no-go.  So, it is actually a motivator.  So it's not one or the other, it's a balance, which is a great lesson to learn.  And it's not about the ranking, it's about the exposure, but like I said, if your son is getting lots of looks and attention without going this route, that is absolutely great, and I am sure a lot of us wish were in that situation....I know my bank account would be

Mine chose D1, not sure if it is low or mid but definitely not high. He had several opportunites D2 and it came down to 1 D1.  He chose the D1 for a couple of reasons. 1, they showed the most interest in him 2. He likes that size campus (18k) versus the D2's were more like 1200-1400 students. 3. History at that college shows they pitch freshman, mostly bullpen or mid week but they do get innings (he realizes e has to earn his time and they said that, they, also, said he projects as a mid week starter / closer, we wil see what he earns). He talked to other pitchers on the team and they all said the same thing, he will get innings and has to earn where he gets them. That is as fair as it can be. 4. very good reputation in his major. 5. Proximaty to home (only 20 minutes).

 

the down side was the D2's said he could be a 2 way player and he very much likes hitting and playing teh field. But he made his choice and he is very happy with it. We will see as he goes on campus in 2014-2015 how it plays out

Originally Posted by lefthookdad:
Originally Posted by ilovebaseball:
Originally Posted by Consultant:

what are your goals your sons goals and objectives?

watching the Tigers Oakland game. 10 players played in our events.

they all had goals and objectives. be real!,

 

Bob

Thanks Bob - love the response!

We always need to have our son's best interests when they are invited/offered at any school.  My perspective is academics come first.  Chances of playing ball at any level above college (any level - D1 through DIII) are very slim.  For many parents that may sound harsh - and I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.  Before I hear all the "what's your son's GPA, ACT/SAT score" - he's not going to be a brain surgeon, top 15% of his 900+ class and we're preaching grades first.

 

On another note - I'm a parent that can't afford to travel / or won't take my son out of high school to play on the PG games that are always going on - can someone please explain to me where all these kids come from?  I'm confused - are all these parents putting athletics first before school?  Seems to me that some folks are all about the PG rankings, is that people think that is what is takes to get coaches to notice you? Not in our case - and NO, our son is not a pitcher.  Don't get me wrong - I have nothing against PG. 

 

Please don't ask me how my son is doing - we're pleased with his baseball skills as well.  Tough Texas District. Started sophomore year - 1st team all district.

 

Be happy for your son - have you asked him what's important to him? 

It's great if your son is getting attention without having to travel. But,there are a lot of us out here where that is not the case.  As far as pulling you child out to attend a showcase/tournament event, it does not mean that you are sacrificing grades.  In my sons case, if he does not do the work ahead of time, then it's a no-go.  So, it is actually a motivator.  So it's not one or the other, it's a balance, which is a great lesson to learn.  And it's not about the ranking, it's about the exposure, but like I said, if your son is getting lots of looks and attention without going this route, that is absolutely great, and I am sure a lot of us wish were in that situation....I know my bank account would be

We allow our son to attend several events each year, and it is with the understanding that he needs to keep his grades up.  (3.81 GPA) I agree with Chef; it is a balance.  I do have friends that think it is sacrilege to have kids miss school for baseball, and some that actually miss much more school for baseball.  We don't really concern ourselves with what others do.  We take each opportunity individually and decide if it is right for our son. If it is, we send him.  If the situation doesn't seem to provide the right opportunity, exposure, etc. to make it worth missing a day or two from school, we don't allow him to go.  We don't spend much time worrying about what others think. We do what is best for our son.  

Re: pulling kid out of school for a showcase

 

My son's teachers didn't care if he missed a couple of days. He was a top student. Get used to it. They miss a lot more classes playing college ball. Or go to class tired after getting back late from a weekday or Sunday bus trip.

 

His soccer coach was real pissed (despite telling him to go) because he was a top goalie. For missing a Friday game he was benched for the following game. The coach had already been pissed since freshman year my son was playing travel baseball over club soccer in the summer. He was the only player on the team not playing club soccer.

Last edited by RJM

 

Son took D2 cause they have consistently made it to the playoffs.  In our case, neither may give him much exposure due to the leagues, however D2 is known as a baseball powerhouse vs the D1 has a baseball team.

 

In either case - goal was to play baseball and get a degree...Son has to be able to JUSTIFY the commitments and potential 'exposure' while attending college.  Dreams are dreams and very few wind up with MLB contracts.  Yes, we have some posters out there that are the exception.  However for every exception, there are a 1/2 dozen who get to play college baseball and never move on.  Beyond that there are dozens more that played HS ball that stop or can't take it to college.

 

SET a goal - be realistic.  If you’re not being heavily recruited by at least 10 D1's, then consider playing where your son can develop can potentially move on.  NOT pick HOPING for exposure and that he's a draft pick.  Juco to develop is fine, however have a next step in mind.

 

If he is that good - he can always sign at an open tryout....

 

One last comment - Baseball programs are runlike businesses.  They are not considerate, they are there for a reason to continue to improve.  If your on the cusp of D1 as a freshman, you may not be there 2nd year.

 

One quote that stood out that I was told....Everyone targets schools one Divison too high for their son.  let the coaches tell you, not you tell the coaches the kid can be a D1 starter day 1.

FWIW, 

 

For years we have been asking players which colleges they are most interested in.

 

We probably have over 100,000 replies on file.  I would have to search for a whole day and might not find any college lower than DI mentioned.

 

Sometimes we see a kid that might have low DIII ability, yet he lists the colleges he is most interested in as, UCLA, Stanford, LSU and Texas.  

 

Only reason I mention this is it is very obvious what most every young baseball player wants.  Reality sets in later on.

Sometimes the reverse is true as well, PG.  I know Bum, Jr. (and dad) was thrilled to get a Pac-10 early offer.  After years of wondering if he were "good enough" it was a huge thing at the time and he accepted.  During his senior season, he had to turn down a ton of other teams --good ones-- and only then did it become apparent he committed too early.  My advice to any player on the fence, wondering if that D1 school is an attainable goal, well, if you're good enough and they know your name (exposure) you'll be okay.  There's such a thing as jumping too soon.

 

My son chose his DII (Delta State) after turning down offers to lower level D1's closer to home and it has been the greatest thing he ever did. He has had one trip to the College World Series and spent most of last season on the number one DII in the nation until they faltered in regionals out of which came the National Championship team (Tampa). In his three years of action he has played so many of the great DII teams or ranked teams that it has been a blast. His team has a lot of new guys but they are like the Yankees or Red Sox in that their coach does not believe in rebuilding years. They are expected to reach Regionals every year by the coach. They have been to the College World Series eleven times so if you sign with a program like his(Delta State) or Tampa, Mount Olive, Central Missouri, West Florida, or Southern Arkansas as well as others you will have a lot of excitement well as be seen by scouts. So one more year of excitement for us still ahead, I hope!

 

I will comment that I feel it is easier as a DII player to get drafted as a pitcher than a position player because if you throw 91-92, it doesn't matter which college division you are in they will find you. Most of our players drafted or signed as free agents are pitchers. I agree with Florida fan that it is harder to get drafted as a Junior out of a DII due to the perception that the pitching overall is weaker than D1.

 

Delta State usually plays a nearby DI in scrimmages and sometimes in real games and Delta often crushes them (last year in scrimmmages 19-5 and 16-1). Delta does get guys who were D1 and I have seen former D1 guys who have to sit and wait their turn to contribute because someone better is in front of them. For years Delta State played Mississippi and Mississippi State and while those two did win most of the time, Delta State also beat them many times. So outside of maybe the top 25-30 D1's I feel there is little to no difference from the top DII's.

 

Last  year in the large town near us, the local newspaper asked each player on a 12 year old travel team what they wanted to accomplish in baseball and most of them said (probably fed by their parents) that they wanted to play D1 ball. My first thought was that so many of them will find out they were way over reaching and probably should just be concerned to make the high school varsity eventually.  But I guess they should have dreams but so many don't realize there are many options besides D1 ball.

 

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