Luis Gonzalez?

he was a guy I always wondered about, too...always liked the way he plays though

Question: When did steroid use become illegal in baseball?? Was there a time when it was not cheating? Even though I am prejudiced towards baseball [like most of you], its history and the place that the numbers hold in the game, versus, say, football, why don't people get upset about the sanctity of the records in football. Would the Steelers have won those Super Bowls without their lineman being juiced?? [half of them are dead already, like Lyle Alzado]. I'm sure at least a couple of OJ's linemen were juicing when he broke 2000 yds - how come nobody cares about that?

I'm actually serious - answers regarding the relevance of football aside, why do you think that is?? BBBum - sorry if I hijacked you.

LOL highjacked me not at all.....

I just feel that all of these guys did what everyone else was doing. I just have this feeling that Bonds is the scapegoat and guys like Mcguire and Sosa got a free pass.

My son went to a baseball camp with Luis Gonzalez and he is a class act. But his numbers were just Incredible that one year!

Which makes me also wonder if Pudge went off some sort of juice or went on Jenny Craig after getting to Detroit when testing started?

Windmill,
They say football is cleaned up, I don't think so, they are just using more undetectable stuff.

Like Aresnio Hall would say, " things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmm...?:.

Dad04 asks if Ivan Rodriguez went to Jenny Craig.

I was watching or listening to a Tigers game last week and the announcer said something to the effect of "so Pudge gets a single. Gee, I don't know why they call him Pudge."

Hello? Where have you been? Sounded like someone was trying to hide something or pretend that something wasn't going on.

windmill, Fay Vincent wrote a memo in 1991 reminding the players that the taking of restricted substances (steroids were mentioned specifically) was illegal. IMHO the question has never been when were they made illegal in baseball. The taking of restricted/prescription drugs (without a valid medical reason in the case of prescription drugs) is illegal for everyone in the US. Doesn't matter what the MLB policy is or was; it's illegal. MLB probably doesn't have a rule regarding ax murder or knocking over 7-11's, but I don't think anyone would ask the question "what is the MLB policy?" should one of the players participate in those activities.

I believe baseball is looked at differently both because of their unique anti-trust exemption and because it's the "purer" sport with the longest history in this country. The antics of basketball players seem to be expected; football players seem to be of another species. Or could it be the demographics of the fans? (Going hmmmmm now )

[QUOTE]Originally posted by baseballbum:


I just feel that all of these guys did what everyone else was doing. I just have this feeling that Bonds is the scapegoat and guys like Mcguire and Sosa got a free pass.

QUOTE]

I don't think Mcguire got a "Free pass" as he embarassed himself in front of congress and the entire country with his resposes to questions about steriod use. It will be interesting to see how close his HOF vote is.

Alzado was shooting Human Growth Hormone from a dead bull, among other things. Pretty crazy and while his steroid use was certain a cause in his deadly side effects, chances are the HGH skyrocketed these diseases.

The NFL was just "smart enough" to put in the testing before there was a media frenzy around the topic. The NFL is about as clean as a junkie on 5th avenue.

I don't agree with it, but it's certainly the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by Orlando:
windmill, Fay Vincent wrote a memo in 1991 reminding the players that the taking of restricted substances (steroids were mentioned specifically) was illegal. IMHO the question has never been when were they made illegal in baseball. The taking of restricted/prescription drugs (without a valid medical reason in the case of prescription drugs) is illegal for everyone in the US. Doesn't matter what the MLB policy is or was; it's illegal. MLB probably doesn't have a rule regarding ax murder or knocking over 7-11's, but I don't think anyone would ask the question "what is the MLB policy?" should one of the players participate in those activities.

Bingo.

Orlando -thx - I wanted to make sure my frame of reference was right.

we'll see how much a of a free pass Big Mac and Sammy get when HOF voting takes place. Should be interesting. I too believe that Bonds is the scape goat [not a big Bonds fan, per se, but he sure can play, with or without the extras]; that being said, he certainly has made his own bed here.

I just always thought it was funny that nobody gets up in arms about the sanctity of football records relative to steroid use versus baseball.

As Mama Boucher would say 'The FOOSBALL is the DEVIL!!!' She might have been wrong about that, but was probably right about Vicki Valencourt!!

Bonds is the scapegoat not only because no one likes him, but also because he was the biggest name when the scandal started. As for Luis Gonzalez, it wouldn't surprise me, nothing would at this point, but I don't think he was on steroids. He was never all that big. As for Pudge, I think that's a given. There are other players I have questions about, such as Tejada. The NFL is full of guys on steroids. Whenever a player has an injury such as a torn bicep or something similar I have to believe he's on something.

The big question is, who's still using substances that are undetectable, or are using masking agents?

Albert Pujols was on pace to shatter Bond's HR record earlier in the season...then Jason Grimsley gets popped for steroids, word gets out that he and his trainer are good buddies with Pujols, and Albert immediately goes on the DL.

Big Papi didn't do squat until Minnesota threw him on the scrap heap..Boston signs him, and "bingo", he's an instant power threat.

Barroid is a no-brainer.

I hate that it's come to this, but it does make you wonder.

Papi huh? I would like to believe no and his body does not show signs of it...but like you said nothing would suprise me either

baseballbum:

As someone who know Luis quite well, I would say it's you. I would also say the post out of thin air is classless and out of line.

Jemaz, I wouldn't call it classless and out of line, because pretty much any player can be questioned as to the possibility of being on some sort of enhancer. Why? Blame MLB and their limited testing program.

There's entirely too many substances that aren't tested for that these guys can take. Why wouldn't it be logical to suspect something is amiss when his HR total in 2001 is double what his yearly career average is?

There are guys this year that are markedly smaller from years past. To me, that says that the testing program is partially working...and I say partially, because logic tells you that there are always going to be athletes that want to test the system...there's too much money involved not to.

Track & Field has very stringent testing, much more so than baseball, and what happens? Athletes are getting caught, and they KNOW that they will undergo extensive testing, much more stringent than the token tests MLB is using.

You may know Luis quite well, but that doesn't mean he won't stretch the rules. It's sad that fans even have to wonder whether or not a player is getting a chemically enhanced advantage. Heck, Jason Grimsley was juicing, and looking at him, you'd never suspect a thing. Why would Luis be above suspicion? It may not be fair, but that's reality.

I can tell you that Luis, a very classy guy, views it as classless and out of line, and while I understand that not everyone can know these players this still remains the United States which is built upon a principle of innocent until proven guilty. Believe what you want, but I believe the guy who made the initial post is a classless and gutless jerk, which I was trying to avoid saying. Especially since these are annonymous forums for the most part and especially since the post came from out of nowhere.

I see where you're coming from. Apparently you know the guy that started the thread, so you may know his agenda.

Yes, this is the USA, innocent until proven guilty, etc., and until Luis, or Barry, or any other player tests positive on the rinkydink testing that MLB uses, they're presumed innocent. The problem for fans of baseball is that there are now so many undetectable substances that MLB doesn't test for, that no player is above suspicion.

Luis may look at illegal performance enhancer abuse as classless and out of line, and I certainly hope that he hasn't used anything in the past or present.

I do remember other players saying publicly that they wouldn't use illegal performance enhacers...Palmeiro lectured that he never had and never would.....Sosa said he only took Flintstone vitamins, until he was questioned under oath....then he professed not to know how to speak English....and Big Mac decided not to focus on the past.

Until Bud Selig crawls out from his hiding place and puts in action a serious, comprehensive testing program that is at or above Olympic standards, I believe more players are going to have questions raised about what they may or may not be doing.

jemaz

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply in the court of public opinion. Just because Luis Gonzalez is a good guy doesn't mean he cheated. I'm not saying he did because I don't know, I'm just saying it's possible and nothing would surprise me at this point.

nd943

It' also possible you cheated on your taxes in 2001. Lots of Americans do. Perhaps we should have an investigation. The anecdotal evidence on guys like Gonzalez just does not hold up. I'm not going to keep harping on this because it serves no purpose. You are correct in that people will believe what they want, but it's also correct that lots of people are also incredibly uninformed.