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thanks to statcast we now know that Launch angles between +10 and +30 degrees are most productive. On twitter I have seen some guys marking those angles with lines to Train hitting at those angles.

basically like this

 

of course you can only do that at your own Cage but I think it would be a good idea. what do you think about that? couldn't that help hitters to become more productive? of course a hit Trax is nicer but also much more expensive than those ropes who will only cost like 15 bucks.

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Generally, any such visuals are good.  As with most things, there are pros and cons.  For our HS players, we narrow the scope by lowering the higher end of that launch angle range.  We instruct straight line drives to slightly higher.  With a narrowed scope, when a hitter adjusts to pitches a bit up or down, they are more likely to stay within the desired optimal range.

We use, on occasion, makeshift target lines but I do like the rope in the net.  We have used sections of colored ribbon across the back net only.

One of the "cons" to using the range as you defined - when most young players have a visual that is more "upward" than "level" their mindset usually gravitates toward the most upward angle.  They think "hit it up" instead of "hit a level to slightly elevated line drive".  It can affect set-up and swing plane - they tend to exaggerate with a tilted set up and swing plane that is higher and not ideal for consistent barrel contact.  This can become counter-productive for many young players.  

Of course, player type should also be taken into consideration.   Optimal angle for a small speedster is different than that of a masher with a natural "lift" swing.

A question, Dominik - in the image, are all three rope lines supposed to be part of the launch angle visual?  

 

cabbagedad posted:

Generally, any such visuals are good.  As with most things, there are pros and cons.  For our HS players, we narrow the scope by lowering the higher end of that launch angle range.  We instruct straight line drives to slightly higher.  With a narrowed scope, when a hitter adjusts to pitches a bit up or down, they are more likely to stay within the desired optimal range.

We use, on occasion, makeshift target lines but I do like the rope in the net.  We have used sections of colored ribbon across the back net only.

One of the "cons" to using the range as you defined - when most young players have a visual that is more "upward" than "level" their mindset usually gravitates toward the most upward angle.  They think "hit it up" instead of "hit a level to slightly elevated line drive".  It can affect set-up and swing plane - they tend to exaggerate with a tilted set up and swing plane that is higher and not ideal for consistent barrel contact.  This can become counter-productive for many young players.  

Of course, player type should also be taken into consideration.   Optimal angle for a small speedster is different than that of a masher with a natural "lift" swing.

A question, Dominik - in the image, are all three rope lines supposed to be part of the launch angle visual?  

 

I think the very lowest line has no function. however I think that lower of the other lines is about 20 degrees, I would make it a little lower. 

Although I believe in Launch Angles and I have even seen Iowa block off their entire infield with box nets here is my one worry.  The launch angles that are discussed are, as far as I know, based off a pitcher throwing a pitch off an elevated mound.  If you mark these in a cage in which you are throwing off the flat ground my assumption is that this would change angles.  This is the problem I have with doing something like this.

The visual reference of the cage 2 posts above tells me that the old phrase "back of the cage son" pretty much takes care of the need to mark launch angles on sides of cages. A ball that makes its way to the back of the cage or at least beyond the L screen before contacting the top of cage has always been what I've asked my son for in the cage!....this thread kinda reinforces what I've told him since little league!lol....edit: before you take me to task for the exactness of the location described above vs the lines in blue, lighten up....just comparing old school "success" for me with my son  to new school lines on the cage!

Last edited by 2019Lefty21
2019Lefty21 posted:

The visual reference of the cage 2 posts above tells me that the old phrase "back of the cage son" pretty much takes care of the need to mark launch angles on sides of cages. A ball that makes its way to the back of the cage or at least beyond the L screen before contacting the top of cage has always been what I've asked my son for in the cage!....this thread kinda reinforces what I've told him since little league!lol....edit: before you take me to task for the exactness of the location described above vs the lines in blue, lighten up....just comparing old school "success" for me with my son  to new school lines on the cage!

yes but back of the Cage is just the BOTTOM of the desired Launch angle range (and only if you hit over the Screen, if you hit through the "L" hole it is lower).

don't Forget that a Level line drive (aimed against the Screen ) on the field will bounce roughly around the pitchers Mound due to gravity. even a plus 5 degree hit at 90 MPH will only travel like 130 feet, so it is essentially a hard one hopper to short or a shoelace line drive.

MLB statcast thus has liners from 10-25 degrees.

you don't want to hit the top of the Cage 10 feet in front of home plate obviously, but a batted ball that hits the top of the Cage about 20 feet away from home plate is pretty much an ideal Launch angle.

Actually a ball hit at a 30 degree angle at a height of 3 feet above the ground will hit the top of a 12 feet high batting Cage about 16 feet behind home plate although most coaches would discourage that Kind of result.

And if you don't want 30 degree balls: because you have a small guy:

if we assume the ideal line drive to be at 17.5 degrees (10+25/2), that ball would hit the top of the Cage 30 feet away from home plate which is still a couple feet before the L Screen (assuming the L Screen is about 45 feet from home plate).

That means only a small part of the ideal LA range will actually hit the (top part) of the back of the Cage, while the majority will hit the top of the Cage.

Last edited by Dominik85

I don't even think you Need to mark the sides of the Screen all that much, just mark the part of the top of the Cage (about 15-20 feet from home) where the ideal lauch angle ends and use the top of the Screen as the bottom range.

if you hit the top before that it is too steep and behind that you are fine.

ideally of course you mark the sides and the back/top.

If you don't want to mark it you could maybe say hit the back half  of the top of the Cage (backstop to about middle of the Cage is front half and middle of the Cage to the back end behind the Screen is the back half)instead of hit the back of the Cage.

I made this Picture: the Cage is a Little shorter and higher than normal, so the Launch angle of the front part of the line is more like 40 degrees but you get the Picture.

cage

 

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Last edited by Dominik85

I personally have been really focusing on hitting up on the ball.  I have naturally had a flat swing or slight up swing and this goes back to the days where I was told to HIT DOWN on the ball, even as a power hitter.  Never made sense and I struggled.  I fight with the zepp attack angle numbers because when my swing clearly shows up on video and zepp is telling me its -25' and the ball is going up I get frustrated.  So I try and change mechanics and swing plane and hands and shoulders and swing up.  I used to be a home run and power hitter but I dont have video of that far back so I have to assume my swing has changed over time.  

Here is why Im posting...  IEBSBL posted something interesting about pitches coming off a mound and launch angles.  This got quickly dismissed because launch angles dont really have to do with pitch angle in theory because the angle is off the bat compared to the ground.  BUT, when I hit in a 70-80mph cage off a machine or a live pitcher not on a mound, the ball is coming in at a much less angle vs off a mound.  That in return changes what we do with the bat and swing plane which in return changes the launch angle.  I never considered this but it makes sense.  Maybe I do swing on the proper angle but I dont realize it because in training the ball is coming in flat or very slightly downward bc of gravity.  So I swing flatter to match that path.  

If I look at the zepp app and look at mike trouts swing from the side, his launch angle is matching the pitch angle.  The pitcher is sitting a bit in front of the mound, behind a screen, tossing at a slow speed.  This is creating a very dramatic pitch angle so Mike has to swing up to match it.  Im sure his subconscious tells him to match the pitch angle.  But in my videos from cage work the ball is coming in basically flat and my swing gets on plane and matches that angle.  

Make sense?  It makes it VERY hard to swing up on a ball that is coming in flat.  You are cutting the impact area by a large percentage because now you have only a small spot on the ball and a perfect timing to hit that ball up.  Unless you get on plane of a flat pitch with a flat swing and catch if just under the equator.  But at that swing you arent hitting home runs but fly outs without any real force.  

This must all have a huge impact on hitting and training without knowing it.  

Last edited by Cap217

Well a Cage pitch is not coming in flat.

most of the downward angle of a pitch is not due to the Mound but due to gravity and the ball being released over shoulder height and arriving usually below waist height. the Mound might add some more angle but not much (maybe adding one more degree of downward angle or so).

if the BP in the Cage is thrown it probably is actually steeper than game pitching because it is slower and usually thrown from a shorter distance.

maybe if it is a machine that is firing balls from rather low at a high Velo the pitch will be flatter but I doubt that makes a big difference.

Last edited by Dominik85
Dominik85 posted:

Well a Cage pitch is not coming in flat.

most of the downward angle of a pitch is not due to the Mound but due to gravity and the ball being released over shoulder height and arriving usually below waist height. the Mound might add some more angle but not much (maybe adding one more degree of downward angle or so).

if the BP in the Cage is thrown it probably is actually steeper than game pitching because it is slower and usually thrown from a shorter distance.

maybe if it is a machine that is firing balls from rather low at a high Velo the pitch will be flatter but I doubt that makes a big difference.

 

I moved this to another thread.  I dont want to hijack this one.  Sorry and thanks. 

 

http://community.hsbaseballweb...d-vs-flat-vs-machine

Last edited by Cap217
Dominik85 posted:

maybe it is not completely the same. but I'm pretty sure we are talking something like 6 degrees vs 8 degrees here. 

 

certainly nothing that would justify a launch angle that is 20 degrees  lower than in games. 

I started another thread:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...d-vs-flat-vs-machine

 

Lets work there.  But Im not saying launch angle differences, I am saying attack angle differences.  Remember we can still launch a ball at 30' with an uppercut, level, or down swing depending on where we make contact. 

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