Measureables Needed for Third Basemen... (?)

Have you thought about looking for a kind of community showcase where you could at least get some measureables to compare to other kids in your area? Maybe $100 for kids from surrounding area, rather than $600 or more for a PG event? 

My son is very similar to yours with the exception to position (C/P).  He did his first PBR showcase this past spring with the goal to get an invite to Underclass Prospect Games for our state and maybe get an invite to Future Games (long shot).  In short, he did not make either goal but managed to get a PBR showcase under his belt for baseline and experience.

The plan is to showcase again this upcoming spring to get better measurables and video to send when he starts reaching out to coaches (mid D1/D2/D3/JUCO) and hopefully get an invite to the PBR Upperclass Games for the state where they can see him in action plus doing college camps at targeted schools. 

My son did a prospect camp before PBR at a local D3 for the grand sum of $5.00 which gave him a baseline before PBR showcase and the feel for a prospect camp.

My advice for you is to do a local college prospect camp (should not be over $100) over this winter to get a baseline that nobody will know or see except for your son, you and the college coaches at that particular school.  Then work on any weaknesses and sign up for PBR/PG showcase for this spring to have the metrics/video to send to coaches in intro email.

I see no reason to do a PBR/PG showcase any sooner than this unless he is a stud and is targeting P5 D1 schools or like my son was targeting certain invite events for a particular showcase season.  Hope this makes sense.  

Measurables are a guideline to help determine what level of college to focus on. They should not be something which says I can or can not play if I don't reach a certain number.  An inexpensive local camp or showcase can provide you with some verifiable numbers and,if possible a chance to pick the brain of the coaches as to where he fits what he needs to work on.  

Thanks for the replies.  We know his measureables, because his coach/hitting instructor took them at the travel team facility

2021 (Junior this Fall) 3B/1B, 85 Exit Velo off Tee, 7.5 60, 82 mph Infield Throwing Velo

Wondering where his numbers need to get to, where it would make sense to showcase at PBR & Perfect Game in order to help with recruiting?

3&2:

When I select a 3b for International competition, I look for a "linebacker" type of player.

"No fear" ability to move "quickly "left and right" and forward for slow hit balls and bunts.

The 60 yard does not measure a 3rd Baseman, a 1st step does!!! Keep the ball in front of you. "Quick hands"!! Strong and accurate arm.

Watch videos of the strong ML 3b. Very few backhand unless absolutely necessary.

Needs to be a strong line drive hitter.

Bob

In my opinion, the metrics that a CIF needs to get interest is 90+ exit velo, 85+ IF velo and 7.2 60 time (definitely for a LHH maybe for a righty).  Even if your son attains these metrics then there is the subjectivity of the coach, scout or showcase reviewer.  

Case in point, at the PBR event my son did he had a HS teammate who was there too (same grade).  My son showed as a (C/P) and his teammate at SS.   Son put up a 73 mph catcher velocity (which is usually the lowest of all recorded velo’s), 85 exit velo and 7.8 60.  His teammate put up a 73 IF velo, 81 exit and 7.3 60.  Guess who was selected best of showcase and got an invite to the Underclass Games event, his teammate.  Maybe it was because he is a little taller, LHH, passes the eye test or something else.  

What I have learned so far in the journey is that you can put up better numbers than other players (metrics/stats) and get little or no love based upon other factors (eye test, athleticism, size or something else) that you have ZERO control over.  However, you need to showcase by spring to get verified metrics and video to pass along to college coaches in your intro emails. 

As for showcase, I would do PBR vs PG to save some money.  

In my experience, at least with my son (who was an all state SS in HS), colleges aren't normally recruiting 3B, unless they have substantial power.  They typically recruit SS's and CF's then move kids to where they need them once they get to college.  My son's freshman class of 7 had 6 SS's, 5 of which were all state their senior year.  Over the 4 years he was there, those guys played 3B, SS, 2B, LF and RF.  In his 4 years, I don't think they ever brought in a kid specifically to play 3B.  If your son gets much taller than 6'1 and much over 200 lbs unless he is ridiculously athletic for a big kid his odds of playing  3B are slim...at least at a D1....just doesn't sound to me like he'll be agile enough.  3B in college is tough....you need to cover a ton of ground on foul balls and also be very good at bunt coverage. 

Buckeye - we've heard similar things.  There certainly ARE kids committing as 3B's, but the majority of D1's do indeed recruit SS's and distribute them around the infield.

We've had trustworthy advisors tell us 2 avenues:

1) Get the Exit Velo up over 100, and be able to back that up in games by just crushing great pitching

2) Get the 60 time from 7.5 to 6.9 and then he'd be able to play some 2B & LF as well as 3B/1B and the versatility will make him more desirable 

Of course achieving both would be better (!)

3and2, the last two 3B on my son's high school team (a 2018 and 2019) both went D1 (one to Pac12 and one to West Coast Conference) so it definitely happens. Both are big guys (6'3" 220 and 6'4" 190). The numbers you are talking about (7.2, 85+ infield, 95 EV) should work -- and he has about 12 months for the D1 path straight from HS, more if he goes JC first.

This may be more for the general reader and may not pertain to your cirrcumstances. IMO when it comes to measurables and showcase events,one needs to ask why are they going? Is it to be seen and hope's of getting recruited? To see how you compare to others in your grade? Position? To get 3rd party numbers?  Obviously to get recruited you need to stand out and Burger is correct in that passing the "eye test" is also important. The more competitive the level and program you need a reason for them to pick you over the other players out there. 

Example: In my sons' cases older son 6.6 6.7 60 and 3.81 home to first but average arm and singles hitter at 5'10 170  was told by some ivy's he had the skills but was too small for CF at their level. They want fast  6'+ and power hitters for OF.   Younger son,a catcher, had pop ups at PG 1.92 as a rising senior but was a rail at 6'0" and coaches questioned his durability at the D1/D2 level. Needless to say D1 offers did not come. Thus D3 and Juco

3&2;

He can be the "best" 3b in the Midwest. Hit 200 daily fungo's - "left/right; right/left - "slow" "fast". Go for "quickness" of feet. Develop his bat power to right center. Use a wood 36 ounce bat 35". Watch Javier Baez swing and field. He uses the SSK bat and glove.

Bob

Here are the results from the 2019 class at PG National. The invite only showcase for the top players in the country. There are kids with worse "stats" then your kid getting drafted and committing to P5 schools. It is not all about measurables. It has everything to do with your game. Hitting 90 from the IF or 100 from a tee does not automatically make him a prospect, there is more that goes into it. The hardest hitter in this class hit 101. When you have people telling you to hit 100 off a tee yeah its easier when you do that but also unrealistic. You want to play D1 throw 98. Yes, but you can still get there throwing 86. 

https://www.perfectgame.org/ev...ults.aspx?event=7781

So an 82 IF velo and 85 off the tee tells me that he is right there but coaches either don't like his size, mechanics, look, movement, etc. Or that there are schools interested but aren't doing much of their recruiting until next summer/fall - which would likely be the case. 

Showcases are where you go to stand out among peers. If he isn't going to standout there is no sense in going unless he is there for a specific school. I would avoid PG, PBR and the like. Take the fall as a time to get bigger, stronger and reevaluate when HS starts up then start reaching out to schools where other players have similar measurables. 

2boydad posted:

IMO when it comes to measurables and showcase events,one needs to ask why are they going? Is it to be seen and hope's of getting recruited? To see how you compare to others in your grade? Position? To get 3rd party numbers?  

While things can certainly change, for us doing a PBR or Perfect Game showcase is in large part having verifiable 3rd Party numbers to share with college coaches as part of the recruiting process.

One thing I will also add that we learned was the value of someone trusted and known by college coaches. It can be a HS or travel coach, skills coach or consultant. The word of a someone trusted by college coaches can be of great help in separating yourself from otherwise equally skilled players. 

I think you have to decide which direction to go. He seems to be already quite big and strong for his age.

Either you focus your training on getting more agile and athletic while moderately getting stronger and increase EV without gaining much more weight.

Or you focus on really getting big and strong which means he likely is a DH/1B. This can work but then you really need high EV and a good hit tool. I mean nobody asked andrew vaughn or AJ reed about his speed.

You need to asses which is more realistic. Becoming a 220 pound 1B who can hit the ball at 100+ or can he become a decent athlete who is a legimitate runner and infielder who hits the ball 90+.

Both can get you into college I think but you need to asses which is most realistic.

Corner infielders have to be able to mash. Otherwise one of the talented shortstops who didn’t win the shortstop position will be moved to third.

All the typical talented shortstops and centerfielders who are recruited are top athletes, good hitters and have decent power.

It can be a bear trying to get recruited as a 1b/DH unless the player can seriously mash. 1b is often where the good hitter who didn’t win his position is placed. A friend’s son was an All American shortstop soph and junior year. Freshman year he played first waiting for the incumbent shortstop to leave.

I also think the recruiting for mashers with limited athleticsm can be a bit later. Power potential matters but if you are dealing with a future 1B you are not recruiting a power potential guy who best case grows into power and worst case is a 3 HR per year 1b but you simply wait until he shows present developed power.

Now with a SS you are betting on power growth potential if he can play and has room to add because even if the power doesn't come he still is a solid player and if it comes is a star but the 1b needs the power to be even playable so you wait until he shows it because potential is always more of a risk than a developed skill.

Maybe with him he needs to show developed power at the varsity or older age travel ball level (as opposed to JV or 14-15u travel level) until colleges are interested in him. If he mashes varsity or 17u travel teams might get interested a lot more.

PABaseball posted:

Here are the results from the 2019 class at PG National. The invite only showcase for the top players in the country. There are kids with worse "stats" then your kid getting drafted and committing to P5 schools. It is not all about measurables. It has everything to do with your game. Hitting 90 from the IF or 100 from a tee does not automatically make him a prospect, there is more that goes into it. The hardest hitter in this class hit 101. When you have people telling you to hit 100 off a tee yeah its easier when you do that but also unrealistic. You want to play D1 throw 98. Yes, but you can still get there throwing 86. 

https://www.perfectgame.org/ev...ults.aspx?event=7781

So an 82 IF velo and 85 off the tee tells me that he is right there but coaches either don't like his size, mechanics, look, movement, etc. Or that there are schools interested but aren't doing much of their recruiting until next summer/fall - which would likely be the case. 

Showcases are where you go to stand out among peers. If he isn't going to standout there is no sense in going unless he is there for a specific school. I would avoid PG, PBR and the like. Take the fall as a time to get bigger, stronger and reevaluate when HS starts up then start reaching out to schools where other players have similar measurables. 

Quite a few players invited to the PG National do not have previous showcase data,  They are, however, highly ranked, which is probably because of the PG scouts' "eye test".  That being said, some players have their stock go down a bit after attending events like the PG National because their metrics do not measure up to the hype.

In the case of the 2019's mentioned above, all 3B except for one hit 90+ off the tee. Only three threw less than 85 mph. I only looked at their final profile stats and not the actual PG National workout results--so some may have done worse at the showcase.

Also notice that only thirteen 3B are on the roster--this just affirms what a lot of other posters have stated: colleges recruit MIFs...

I do believe 3B's should definitely hit 90+ off the tee.  Clearly the more athletic the better.  The 60 time is somewhat of an indicator for this, a sub 7.0 shows some athleticism but as PABaseball states, the real test is do coaches "like his size, mechanics, look, movement, etc.?"

RJM posted:

Corner infielders have to be able to mash. Otherwise one of the talented shortstops who didn’t win the shortstop position will be moved to third.

All the typical talented shortstops and centerfielders who are recruited are top athletes, good hitters and have decent power.

It can be a bear trying to get recruiting as a 1b/DH unless the player can seriously mash. 1b is often where the good hitter who didn’t win his position is placed. A friend’s son was an All American shortstop soph and junior year. Freshman year he played first waiting for the incumbent shortstop to leave.

^^^^^ this.

Son's college coach told us he would recruit a field full of short stops if he could.

Hit hit hit.

A kid that I used to coach can be used as a good example.  As a junior in HS he was 6’-2”, 215 lb and played 3B (primarily) & 1B as a secondary position.  Ran a 6.8 sixty, had 95 mph exit velo, and was 86 mph across the diamond - all verified.  Was a standout on a top regional travel team that went to all the big national events & batted middle of the order as a 3 year starter at a big HS in an elite district.  He also had great grades & test scores. By most people’s definition (on this board) he would check all the boxes as a D1 recruit - but he wasn’t recruited by any D1 schools -  so he took a JuCo offer.  Played in 46 games as a freshman and got over 170 plate appearances.  Batted 5th and hit .381 for the season w/ 5 HRs & 12 doubles for a team that went to JuCo WS.  I saw him recently and asked about his prospects after JuCo.  He said that he expects a number of D2 offers and possibly a couple D1 mid majors. It is hard to imagine a kid having a combination of better numbers & measurables than this kid has but P5 schools are not knocking on his door. Point being - it is incredible how good you have to be in order to be recruited as a corner IF at a top 30 D1 program. Unless you have pro talent you won’t even get a look. 

All above is true and a player should train to be the best he can be but let's not forget that the non D1 levels don't have the luxury to be as picky. A good corner player (or any player) can find a home and still play good ball and get an education outside of D1 or buy time by going JUCO. 

ABSORBER posted:

Quite a few players invited to the PG National do not have previous showcase data,  They are, however, highly ranked, which is probably because of the PG scouts' "eye test".  That being said, some players have their stock go down a bit after attending events like the PG National because their metrics do not measure up to the hype.

In the case of the 2019's mentioned above, all 3B except for one hit 90+ off the tee. Only three threw less than 85 mph. I only looked at their final profile stats and not the actual PG National workout results--so some may have done worse at the showcase.

Also notice that only thirteen 3B are on the roster--this just affirms what a lot of other posters have stated: colleges recruit MIFs...

I do believe 3B's should definitely hit 90+ off the tee.  Clearly the more athletic the better.  The 60 time is somewhat of an indicator for this, a sub 7.0 shows some athleticism but as PABaseball states, the real test is do coaches "like his size, mechanics, look, movement, etc.?"

I agree. In an example from this thread the catcher was throwing 73 (typically the worst a his showcases). At PG National there was a kid throwing 74 and he's committed to a P5 tournament team which tells me he does everything else well. The measurables (other than pitching velo) are just a tool to compare him to other kids, they don't actually mean anything. 91 across the infield is useless if footwork sucks or he takes bad angles. 95 exit velo means nothing if you can't touch a curve. Numbers are just a tool that go along with size. This is what he's at now. If we get him on a college diet and weightlifting program what will he be at? There are first round picks with a 90 EV. There are guys who will never receive an offer with 95 EV. The numbers only matter for projectability. You have to have skills. 

adbono posted:

A kid that I used to coach can be used as a good example.  As a junior in HS he was 6’-2”, 215 lb and played 3B (primarily) & 1B as a secondary position.  Ran a 6.8 sixty, had 95 mph exit velo, and was 86 mph across the diamond - all verified.  Was a standout on a top regional travel team that went to all the big national events & batted middle of the order as a 3 year starter at a big HS in an elite district.  He also had great grades & test scores. By most people’s definition (on this board) he would check all the boxes as a D1 recruit - but he wasn’t recruited by any D1 schools -  so he took a JuCo offer.  Played in 46 games as a freshman and got over 170 plate appearances.  Batted 5th and hit .381 for the season w/ 5 HRs & 12 doubles for a team that went to JuCo WS.  I saw him recently and asked about his prospects after JuCo.  He said that he expects a number of D2 offers and possibly a couple D1 mid majors. It is hard to imagine a kid having a combination of better numbers & measurables than this kid has but P5 schools are not knocking on his door. Point being - it is incredible how good you have to be in order to be recruited as a corner IF at a top 30 D1 program. Unless you have pro talent you won’t even get a look. 

Shouldn't he play center field with a 6.8 60? That's like 60 grade speed, isn't it?

Dominik85 posted:

adbono posted:

A kid that I used to coach can be used as a good example.  As a junior in HS he was 6’-2”, 215 lb and played 3B (primarily) & 1B as a secondary position.  Ran a 6.8 sixty, had 95 mph exit velo, and was 86 mph across the diamond - all verified.  Was a standout on a top regional travel team that went to all the big national events & batted middle of the order as a 3 year starter at a big HS in an elite district.  He also had great grades & test scores. By most people’s definition (on this board) he would check all the boxes as a D1 recruit - but he wasn’t recruited by any D1 schools -  so he took a JuCo offer.  Played in 46 games as a freshman and got over 170 plate appearances.  Batted 5th and hit .381 for the season w/ 5 HRs & 12 doubles for a team that went to JuCo WS.  I saw him recently and asked about his prospects after JuCo.  He said that he expects a number of D2 offers and possibly a couple D1 mid majors. It is hard to imagine a kid having a combination of better numbers & measurables than this kid has but P5 schools are not knocking on his door. Point being - it is incredible how good you have to be in order to be recruited as a corner IF at a top 30 D1 program. Unless you have pro talent you won’t even get a look. 

Shouldn't he play center field with a 6.8 60? That's like 60 grade speed, isn't it?

No way. Sixty time for CF at respectable D1 program needs to be more like 6.5 - 6.6 (or better). Kid that played for me last summer is an OF at Wichita State. He ran a 6.39 laser timed 60 in HS. 

Another perspective:  2018 MIF asked the Stanford HC how many SS's he was recruiting:  "Son, I only recruit SS's".

Most college 3B/2B were SS's in HS.  Train as a SS and keep getting stronger.