MENTAL Problem

If I really wanted help, the first thing I'd do is edit my post so that it is comprehensible.

Oh oh..the grammar police are here. Infopimp, was that really necessary? If you've got no help to offer the kid as far as his swing goes, just don't say anything. His post is not incomprehensible.

infopimp,
Ok, I fixed it. I'm sorry it bothered you. I don't think there is anything else wrong with my first post. If I find something I will be sure to correct it.

-Kevin

Catcher,
One of the biggest problems young hitters have today is thinking too much. There is so much specialized training these days and stresses on mechancis, that sometimes we forget the old, "grad a bat and hit the ball" technique. When you get in the box, your only thought should be on seeing the ball. Get in your stance, relax, BREATHE, relax your hands, and the only thought you should have is, "ok big boy, you got the ball, I got the bat, let's go, bring it." If you are in the box, thinking about mechanics or anything else besides seeing the ball, you are in trouble. Other things you may consider and that should go through your head are how the pitcher is working you and other hitters, what are his patterns, his tendincies, can you pick up anything in his delivery that may tip a pitch. Be aggressive, be confident in all the work and preparation you have done for that at bat. Then just get radar locked on that baseball and swing hard in case you hit it! Best of luck

AB

Baseball Pros

bubandbran,
Thanks a lot. I was thinking way too much. I guess I was stepping in and over thinking everything. Instead of, like you said, grabbing a bat and hitting the ball. I would step up to the plate thinking "do this and do that" instead of "ok, pitch, show me what you got." Thanks a lot.

-Kevin

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:
Catcher,
One of the biggest problems young hitters have today is thinking too much. There is so much specialized training these days and stresses on mechancis, that sometimes we forget the old, "grad a bat and hit the ball" technique. When you get in the box, your only thought should be on seeing the ball. Get in your stance, relax, BREATHE, relax your hands, and the only thought you should have is, "ok big boy, you got the ball, I got the bat, let's go, bring it." If you are in the box, thinking about mechanics or anything else besides seeing the ball, you are in trouble. Other things you may consider and that should go through your head are how the pitcher is working you and other hitters, what are his patterns, his tendincies, can you pick up anything in his delivery that may tip a pitch. Be aggressive, be confident in all the work and preparation you have done for that at bat. Then just get radar locked on that baseball and swing hard in case you hit it! Best of luck

AB

Baseball Pros

In other words, quit sucker, you've got no chance.

Not only is it ridiculous but impossible for a developing hitter to not think of something he's been working on.

That is exactly why it takes 1000's of swings and 100's of at bats. Because you have a lot to think about.

If you haven't taught much, please, leave it alone.

If you are finding that you are thinking that much about your mechanics, they are totally unnatural for you.

If you have a good swing that can get your bat in the zone to meet the pitch then just fine tune your swing.

If you are looping in your most comfortable natural swing, try holding the bat higher. If you can maintain bat speed and acuracy, don't fix it until it breaks.

There is no end all be all instruction for teaching hitting.

Remember, Ted Williams had an upper cut swing but good hand eye coordination. I'm sure many coaches today would be trying to teach him the 'right way' to swing the bat.

Lastly, the difference in BP and game at bats is that split second it takes to decide whether you are going to swing or not. That in reality may be where you are losing it. Know the zone that your swing produces the best results contacting the ball. See it and hit it.

Good hitters do not think--they REACT !!!!!

Infopimp:

Not only was your response on this one very rude, but it was wrong and tells me that while you might understand the mechanics of the swing you do not understand hitting and what it takes for a player to have success at the plate. If you are thinking, you are not hitting, and I know lots and lots of some of the very best big league players and some of the very, very best young hitters who have a chance to become big league hitters and they all say the same things.

Perhaps a little less on mechanics and clips and a little more on human communication would be very helpful to you, and I mean that in only the most constructive of ways.

InfoPimp,
I agree, I think your response was rude. But it does illustrate your lack of knowledge of the game of baseball and especially hitting. I have taught plenty, I am a hitting instructor for the Atlanta Braves. But more importantly, what qualifies me to answer this question is over 5,000 professional plate appearances. Where I too gave away too many at bats thinking about my mechanics. I can relate to what this kid is talking about it because i have been there. I understand his mindset because I have felt the same way.

Catcher,
You are welcome, go get him kido. Let me know how it goes. If you have any other questions, feel free to contact me at info@baseballpros.net.

quote:

Originally posted by Infopimp:


In other words, quit sucker, you've got no chance.

Not only is it ridiculous but impossible for a developing hitter to not think of something he's been working on.

That is exactly why it takes 1000's of swings and 100's of at bats. Because you have a lot to think about.

If you haven't taught much, please, leave it alone.

Infopimp,

This wasnt one of your better ones. Lets parse it - shall we?

1st sentence - Very rude IMO.

2nd sentence - Makes no sense. Would agree it seems as though you havent played much.

3rd sentence - Meaningless mumbo jumbo. IMO.

4th sentence - Another meaningless bubble of cyber stuff.

I am disapppointed in this one. LOL

Catcher, much of the mental preparation should be done in the hole or the on-deck circle. In other words, what is your "plan?" Have you identified any flaws? Example getting out of the zone on fastballs up. A part of what you should have been doing in BP is eliminating that flaw. Now, you reinforce your practice by reviewing that you won't get out of the zone "up." Are you looking for a ball away or in? Well, we could be very technical here and describe several scenerios such as pitch selection, location, game situation... That has to be accounted for in your "plan." WHEN YOU WALK INTO THE BOX, YOUR PLAN IS ALL THAT MATTERS. Emotion has to be taken out of the equation! People that fail in the box often do so because they panic. You have to have faith, be positive, and know that in a worse case scenerio, you can hit deep into the count and be productive. Hitters often panic so much that with 2 strikes, they are easy prey for the pitcher. BTW, players that have enough faith in themselves to go deep into the count ofent don't have to because they don't panic. JMHO!

I think what Infopimp is saying is that if the hitter hasn't put the time in in practice, he will have a problem trying to clear his mind in the box in a game.....And, there is truth to this....Im' sure he is talking about a hitter who is in the process of changing his mechanics and doesn't yet have confidence in his swing....Chances are, his mind will churn in the box until he gains that confidence.......

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
I think what Infopimp is saying is that if the hitter hasn't put the time in in practice, he will have a problem trying to clear his mind in the box in a game.....And, there is truth to this....Im' sure he is talking about a hitter who is in the process of changing his mechanics and doesn't yet have confidence in his swing....Chances are, his mind will churn in the box until he gains that confidence.......

AGREED! Without repetitions in practice and working on the corrections of flaws be it mental or physical, your chances of success during a game is limited. Examples of mental, practicing pitch counts and expectations. Example of physical - flying out. Both can be corrected simply through repetitions during practice.

Very good post, Blue Dog. I fully agree with the point regarding the importance of repetitions. Thanks for clearing that up.

Jemaz is absolutely correct....Great hitters do not think, at all, in the box.....This is a big contributor to why they are great hitters....You can't be a great hitter until you can clear your mind and swing the bat.....

That's what I'm been trying to say about muscle memory using the proper technique. Think about it, you only have about .34 hundredths of a second to recognize and respond to a 90MPH FB.
Preparation will meet that opportunity too in a repetetive scenerio and your only as good as your last AB. Headed out to guess where? peace, Shep

Concentration: - "The ability to think about absolutely nothing when it is absolutely necessary".......

Best advice I know of for a hitter to understand.....

Shep, it is much more than muscle memory.....I have just recently learned this.....

Repetitions help muscle memory to an extent......Retention is a whole other ball game and an area greatly misunderstood......

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:
...I am a hitting instructor for the Atlanta Braves. But more importantly, what qualifies me to answer this question is over 5,000 professional plate appearances...

I rest my case.

I am glad I am wearing boots!!!!

quote:

Shep, it is much more than muscle memory.....I have just recently learned this.....

Just got in from Vero Beach vs Dunedin game. Infielddad's son, Jason Armstrong plays for one of the teams, BlueJays.

BlueDog,

You are absolutely correct in statement but,
A hitter has to have some kind of grounded approach in batter's box and can help the mental side of hitters strategy by preparing a grounded swing beforehand, then can start concentrating on mental aspects related to the psychology the opposing pitchers are gonna throw at cha. Until a hitter proves himself on all of that pyschology the pitchers will throw at him, the pitchers prolly will own hitter, in the professional ranks anyway. Just saw several examples in FL State League game peace, Shep

This is the HS Baseball web so why dont we think about what HS kids do in situations ?--they aint pros--just teenagers striving and working hard to get the most out what their talents are. They aint pros !

The most critical thing in teaching/instructing is realizing the level of talent/age that the student(s) is at.

13/14 yr olds are not the same as 17/18 years olds

Infopimp, I am not exactly sure what case you are resting, but whatever the case, keep on resting. The information and posts from everyone here have very productive and informative for a young, high school player. That is the point of this website. Great posts everyone!

AB

Shep, I can present a good case for the pitcher owning you if you are thinking about the pitcher's approach....

Hitting is about pitch recognition.....Each and every pitch should be approached the same.....No matter the situation or the count.....

"Tendencies" is a word that causes problems, IMO.....At least, as it pertains to hitting....On one hand, you say the hitter should have a clear mind...On the other hand, you want the hitter thinking about the pitcher's tendencies.....You can't have it both ways......Not possible.....It's one or the other....

Tendencies such as runners steal on certain counts or in certain situations is clearly useful information....You can think in the field....

quote:

Hitting is about pitch recognition.....Each and every pitch should be approached the same.....No matter the situation or the count.....

BlueDog, your absolutely unequivocally, without a shadow of doubt right about this above mentioned constant in the batter's box

but, not wipe either, the hitter needs to look for pitches he can drive when ahead in the count and not swing at the "pitcher's pitch".
Do you agree ? peace, Shep

Thanks for all your help everyone. Basically, I think I was over thinking everything. I was thinking instead of reacting which probably caused my swing to become loopy. That is the reason, in my opinion, that I could hit in BP but not in the game. I had a game today and I went 2-4 and they felt solid. I went into the game thinking, I am just going to grab a bat and let my mechanics take over. Hopefully this broke me out of my slump. I'll find out next game.

Thanks again,
Kevin

Great day.

You can't think and hit at the same time. - Yogi Berra

quote:

You can't think and hit at the same time. - Yogi Berra

You better be able to look fastball and adjust CB SL CU etc in the League I am currently scouting or find a day job. The FL State League is no slouch and I talk with these guys every day charting pitchers behind the plate and here to attest also as a former professional minor league player, you are lucky to get a couple of pitches each AB that are driveable in these ADV "A" ball leagues such as Carolina and FL State League. Bet BubandBran Andy B. can shed a little light on this subject for us. He has far more experience than any of us with 5000 ABs in professional baseball and when he posts here at this site, Shep listens and respects his thoughts and input. peace, Shep

Some thoughts…. I think!

There are two distinct different things we talk about here. I think Infopimp or BlueDog brought this up before. There is the mechanics of the swing and then there is hitting.

Often when people here talk about the “perfect” swing, I think they disregard the fact hitters don’t always get the perfect swing in every plate appearance. That is why hitting is so much more complex than the “perfect” swing. This is not saying the “perfect” swing is not vitally important.

When there is talk about wasted bat speed once the ball is hit, it’s true when the ball is hit with the perfect swing. However, absolute perfect timing does not happen often enough to judge when to turn bat speed on and off. IMO there has to be some range to optimum bat speed, both a bit before and after “perfect” timing and contact. It is the basis for the term “staying on the ball” or “hitting through the ball” or “long finish”. The reason these terms are used is because no hitter is absolutely “perfect” and must have some margin for error. The higher the level, the more important having some margin for error. If the timing is perfect, then creating this small margin for error doesn’t hurt a thing.

The other thing not discussed a lot here is the fact that hitters must have more than one swing. This is not important whenever the ball is thrown somewhere close to your wheel house, but at the highest level hitters must be able to cover more area than that at times or they will not be successful. Hitters must be able to fight off pitches. Hitters must be able adjust and hit a line drive the other way even when fooled. They need a margin for error to accomplish this.

The majority of the discussions here relate to the swing… usually the “perfect” swing by someone’s definition. I believe there are some people here who really understand the swing, especially the so called “perfect” or best swing technique. I also believe there are some here who understand hitting, including the mental aspect and approach to hitting. I’ve come to understand that these are not always the same people. For example, it is real hard to disregard someone who has had 5,000 professional at bats. It’s also hard to disregard someone who spends endless hours studying video and trying to learn everything possible about hitting. Lots could be accomplished if people all got together rather than disregard what the other is saying. Maybe the young kids would benefit the most.

Any way, IMO Pitch recognition is very important. So is pitch prediction (guessing). When someone mentions not thinking, I would bet they are talking about not thinking about mechanics or their previous at bats while they are hitting. I would also bet they don’t mean that hitters don’t think in the dugout, before their at bat, or between pitches. I don’t know much, but I do know most every hitter needs to know what their job is depending on situations. In professional baseball and high level college ball hitters learn early on what they should be thinking in different situations, ie. Runner at 2B no outs. This does not mean they will get the job done because the pitcher also knows what to do to keep the hitter from getting the job done and pitches accordingly.

All this said, I don’t think this is the same “mental” thing that was first brought up here. That is a different mental issue that could be caused from thinking too much about mechanics or it could be just a lack of confidence. Success breeds confidence and knowing what your doing breeds success. Baseball is a percentage game more often than not. You can’t play the percentages without thinking. You just have to think at the right time and that is not when the pitcher has started his windup!

True, these kids better work as much as they can stand. They are at the base of the mountain and want to see that mountain top.

I've been to a bunch of FSL games and have yet to see any barn burners.

Remind these guys that they have to excell rather than just be good at that level.

Jerry, that post qualifies for a classic>

Kudos to PG! The distinction between "the perfect swing" and "Hitting the ball" is the issue which has been missing in all the hitting threads to date. The ability to hit a ball well enough (without that perfect swing) to safely reach base and drive that run home or advance a runner, etc. What I notice at games is when the hitter fights off a good pitch and hits a ball in the gap. The big hit with the perfect swing is a thing of beauty...but the gritty hit resulting from a real battle at the plate is what good (great) hitting is...

Catcher 41....good job getting two knocks. I am glad we could help. This is a great example of how these forums can help kids out. All of us have to realize that it is not about US. It is about THEM! Keep working on those mechanics in the cage, but then leave them there. Don't work on them or try to fix them in the game. Get a game plan, look for a pitch and don't miss it! He will make a mistake to you, and in high school, maybe more than one. SO be ready to hit! Great hitters don't miss their pitch, that is because they are hunting it. They aren't thinking about where their hands are or their stance, they are confident in every aspect because they have done the work preparing and know all they have to do is see the ball and react. Stay relaxed at the plate, AROD told me, (he was my roomate on the '93 USA TEAM and friend from hometown), that he wants his hands so relaxed on the bat that his 10 year old niece could pull the bat out of his hands. Then, just hunt your pitch and react, good things will happen. Best of Luck Kevin, any other questions, email me.

www.baseballpros.net
info@baseballpros.net

quote:

The majority of the discussions here relate to the swing… usually the “perfect” swing by someone’s definition. I believe there are some people here who really understand the swing, especially the so called “perfect” or best swing technique. I also believe there are some here who understand hitting, including the mental aspect and approach to hitting. I’ve come to understand that these are not always the same people. For example, it is real hard to disregard someone who has had 5,000 professional at bats. It’s also hard to disregard someone who spends endless hours studying video and trying to learn everything possible about hitting. Lots could be accomplished if people all got together rather than disregard what the other is saying. Maybe the young kids would benefit the most.

BRAVO

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:

www.baseballpros.net
info@baseballpros.net

That just cracks me up. Do you really expect folks to not read between the lines?

BTW

What Jerry has just done is excuse all you from doing your homework. While much/most of what he said it true, it is far from what 95% of you heard.

What the 95% just got is validation for not pursuing the details further.

Why should we learn a good swing when, Lord knows, you may not be able to hit anyway?

And 95% are thankful for that.

You are a time saver, Jerry.

Of course a player should learn a correct swing, but we are talking about "Mental" issues. What to think about when you are in the batter's box. The kid had a question, he got some good responses and had success the next day at the plate. To me, that is a thumbs up for HSbaseball web. Again, it is about them, not us. And as for reading between the lines, I get 10-20 emails a day from young players, Dads and Moms, asking questions from my website, that I or another ex-professional always answer for free. Just remember, focus on the kids and what is best for them, who cares if you are right about an issue, it is not about you. Lets make sure we are giving good sound advice to these young people and leave it at that.

So, you give the videos away for free?

I didn't see where I could get the freebee.

Please point me in the right direction.

I never said anything about free videos. I am going to hop out of this particular forum and find one I can participate in to help out a young player, you can continue to argue with someone else. The proof is in the pudding, the kid had an issue, it was addressed and he learned something. Time to move on.

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:
I never said anything about free videos. I am going to hop out of this particular forum and find one I can participate in to help out a young player, you can continue to argue with someone else. The proof is in the pudding, the kid had an issue, it was addressed and he learned something. Time to move on.

LOL. Run and hide quick. They're onto me here.

I thought it was for the kids?

TRANSLATION: Only if I can sell them videos....

So, I have to ask......who is it for?

Also, please post a clip of that developing hitter that doesn't think about any of his mechanics while at bat. Please. Pretty please. Post that before you leave.

Infopimp,

Is it me, or are less and less people engaging you in any sort of cyber conversation? LOL

And even when they do - the conversations (if you can call them that) seem to go by in a heartbeat. LOL

Game you should get lost....All you do is stir trouble....

BlueDog,

I told you a long time ago to enjoy the site and behave.

I wasnt kidding.

BLUEDOG

You now have gone over the line!!!

You and your alterego, INFOPIMP, another great name which certainly says something about a posters personality, need to go. And he talks about others selling things but where I come from PIMPS sell things--they do nothing for nothing

Incidently what ITS knows about the game of baseball you might not have in your shriveled little toe

I think it is time you take your alterego and your condescending attitudes and go to another site, that is is there any left that you and your attitude and multipicity of names have not been banned from

Do us all a favor and leave and dont let the door hit you in the backside on the way out

Game, you should not have deleting rights.....You're not the right person for that task.....

BlueDog,

If I were you - I would feel the same way. LOL

Now - behave - and contribute.

TRhit, frankly, I can tell you there are many posters here who would like to see you go......You have little respect from most on this board.....

You are the one seen as a pimp around here.....Trying to sell your showcase.....

Bluedog,

That wasnt what I had in mind when I requested good behavior. LOL

You rascal you!


BTW - Why dont you comment on PGStaff's excellent post? I thought it was a "dead on" experienced observation. What about you - are you interested in that excellent post - or are you interested in other things?

Pimp,
Not hiding from you or anyone else for that matter. My toll free number is on my website, feel free to call anytime. I sell plenty of DVD's and very few if any, come from this site. If I was depending on putting links on this website to create sales, I would be in a lot of trouble. It costs nothing on my site to "Ask The Pro", like I said, I answer 10-20 emails a day, for free, 99% of those people don't buy a thing.
A developing hitter should work hard on his mechanics in the cage, but when the game is on, he should leave his mechanics in the cage and focus on the pitcher and the baseball. If he is thinking about mechancis he is in trouble.
Infopimp, I am not sure about your playing experience or if you even have ever entered a batter's box, but I am guessing not, because if you had, you would know, that going up there, thinking about mechanics is a recipie for failure. We talk about it everyday in our workouts with our players. Sixto Lexcano, 12 years in the big leagues, is my fellow hitting instructor here. He was telling the guys today, the same thing we are talking about. "Have a plan, focus on the ball, leave the mechanics in the cage, know that you have worked hard and are prepared for this battle, now focus on what he is trying to do to you and how you are going to beat him. Be confident and attack the baseball"

PGStaff, having more than one swing just doesn't make sense.....Of course, your swing won't be perfect every single time you take a whack, but, you should never change the way you are attempting to swing.....

By the same token, a pitcher's curve ball won't be perfect every time he throws it, but, he doesn't change the way he attempts the pitch.....

The key to developing and maintaining a high level swing is for the swing to be consistent and repeatable as often as possible....Hitters will get fooled and also misread pitches.....But, the intent of the swing needs to stay the same.....

Great hitters don't mix and match their swing with different pitches or situations....They are great hitters because they have a consistent and repeatable swing that works even under pressure....They will get fooled, sawed off, and strike out.....They will sometimes swing early or late.....But, they are attempting the same swing every time they take a whack....Sometimes it ain't pretty....But, it ain't not pretty on purpose.....

Shep, there are times when a hitter knows what pitch is coming and decides it's a good time to gamble....

It's still a guess and it's still gambling.....Although, at times, you pretty much know.....You call it tendencies, but, you can't make a living out of doing this......

You say, yourself, that you might see only one or two hittable pitches in an at bat....I say, recognize those one or two and take your whack(s)......

Blue Dog

Again so far off base and tripping on your ego

My goal is to help kids and parents whether they attend my events or they dont--that is why I am on this site---I am too old to worry about being liked or disliked --I would rather be respected for what I can do to help people--and I know what our track record is. Most do not even know who the heck you are

You never answer anyone straight--always a question for your answer-- and then to slam ITS as you did only lowers your credibility,whatever you have left, to depths which fish cannot even function and nothing can live.

This can go on forever and it gets boring but when you slam the good people on here it is time for you to leave--you can lambast me all you want--I am fair game--but others I think not

This thread obviously has gone downhill, but I don't believe Blue Dog is primarily to blame. I'd rather talk baseball, but he has taken some shots here that are not deserved. Respect is a two-way street, and moderator status is not simply a power trip. The veiled threats, I would say, are not cool.

TRhit, the difference between me and you is, I help people anonymously.....Quite a few here have benefitted from private conversations with me, on the phone and through other means.....Some have sent me video clips, gotten replies and sent even more with improving swings.....And, it's all no charge....My satisfaction is knowing that these kids/parents will succeed.....Even though, they have been subjected to wrong information for years.....

You are like a rooster on top of a barn crowing for all the world to hear....Big difference between me and you......

Jemaz,

Respect is a two way street?

These clowns have been insulting people for 4 years. That isnt a rational exchange of ideas - that is a circus.

Where have you been the last 4 years?

Bottom line - Bluedog and his ilk win.

Simply because noone has the guts to confront what is an unending cycle of personal insults and attacks.

So be it.
I will go back to reading the board and enjoying it as always - and you can follow this nutcase around the board and monitor his personal attacks. LOL

Good luck.

I see a guy making a legitimate attempt to reach out and change perceptions with a clear change in demeanor. What happened in the past is past. I don't see the same thing now, and I do see a lot of insight and knowledge which just might provide substantial benefit. I just think it ought to be acknowledged. The other guy is clearly out of line.

quote:

You say, yourself, that you might see only one or two hittable pitches in an at bat....I say, recognize those one or two and take your whack(s)......

Evening fellas

Sorry I missed all the action but maybe I can share a few occurances that just took place before my eyes that will shift ugly ugly gists I just had the misfortune of being subjected to...

RYAN PATTERSON of the Dunedin Blue Jays here in the FL STATE LEAGUE just whacked three homeruns in first 7 innings and will most likely get additional AB. Ryan is the youngest outfielder in Dunedin and just turned 23. My recommendation will be fast-track based on Ryan's pitch recognition, rhythm with methodical movement in hands and arms, squaring up body to pitch planes of incoming baseballs before front-foot touchdown and weight transfer dead-on in his turn when coming forward every HITTABLE pitch w/o fouling off or missing even "one" of the HITTABLE pitches that must have looked like basketballs.

Would also like to recommend Ricky Romero/LHP who had his first start at Dunedin Sat. Night and was just fabulous.

Peace to all you brothers and let's get back to learning instead of sniping

Peace, Shep Knows

Jemaz,

And where were you yesterday - and the day before that - and the day before that? Were you following him around the threads like me - and deleting his personal attacks?

You probably didnt even know about them because they were removed before anyone could see them.

Who removed them - that terrible guy Itsinthegame. LOL

Like I said - He wins and I honestly dont give a **** about it anymore. Takes too much time - and yields too much grief.

He's all yours. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by bubandbran:...A developing hitter should work hard on his mechanics in the cage, but when the game is on, he should leave his mechanics in the cage and focus on the pitcher and the baseball...

Please. Pretty please. Post a clip of these hitters, who work hard in the cage on their mechnanics and them simply "don't think about it" in the cage.

I'm honestly interested in seeing these clips. With all the free instruction you've given, give a little more. Post the clip and tell me what the hitter is thinking. Please. I'm looking forward to it.

It is pure unadulterated bs. Especially if you're talking about high school kids. After all, we are on the hsbaseballweb. Show the hitter you've worked on in the cage. Show the cage clip. Then show the game clip. Please.

I can guarantee you, without thought of what they've been working on, they will do the opposite. They will not do what they've been working on doing. They will do what they're trying to get rid of. A game at bat is a stress test. And a developing hitter will fail the stress test over and over and over before he finally gets it. And, he will never get it if he's not thinking about it.

It's all a part of learning. It's all a part of teaching. Especially high school level and below. Which I think you know little of.

Now, obviously that is the ultimate goal. To be able to just react and when you react, that good swing comes out. Good luck trying to get to that point without any conscious thought.

Itsinthegame and TRhit insults me, then, when I reply, Itsinthegame deletes my post.....

I do take alot of shots around here....And, I would much rather talk about hitting....But sometimes, enough is enough....

Blue Dog

How do you know what I do?

You are one sick person--I see no need to compare what I do vs you--


Pal you know nothing about me or what I am about-- you have no freaking idea--

Nah Bluedog,

You much rather play your infantile cyber games - and then lie about it. Or post - then delete yourself and make believe it never happened. Your game is old.

You dont want to talk about hitting - you want to insult people.

Like I said - I have had enough of following you around the boards and deleting your **** - just like the **** you posted to Texan last night

In retrospect - I should have never deleted any of your personal attacks - in fact I should never have even read your puke. 4 years of puke - and I am the idiot that is getting slammed for trying to keep things civil. LOL

Good luck dude - have a blast.

Stick around BlueDog, this too shall pass my friend. It always does. You have put together the missing pieces to many questions I had as a hitting instructor in our conversations here. Your knowledge as well as BBScout's, Jerry's, AB's(bubandbran), Info's, Jemanz, ITS and many others, too many to name, is invaluable and worthy, IMHO.

TR should be the BOSS and delegate responsibilities and start the best hittng Academy on the face of this earth with the above-mentioned names We could call the academy "HSBBW Field of Dreams of Absolute Hitting" peace brothers, Shep Knows

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
... BBScout's, Jerry's, AB's(bubandbran), Info's, Jemanz, ITS..

I have to ask. What has It's offered that helped you.

If I may interject in the other discussion going on about thinking in the box.....

I recently took some time to do some research on how kids learn.....My eyes have really been opened up on this subject as of late.....I am working on a program which focuses on learning retention....It involves motor skills and a different approach to teaching kids how to efficiently swing a bat....

The key to teaching players how to swing a bat is, IMO, their level of retention.....Infopimp is saying, and he is correct, that kids don't retain what they are taught easily and/or quickly.....It takes awhile, in most cases, quite awhile...

I think the reason is, because teachers are depending on muscle memory......It's always been that way......I believe there is a quicker and better way to learn than depending on muscle memory.....I'm currently trial and erroring my theory.....

ITS and I have been conversing in Chatrooms for quite some time now and this guy knows his stuff. Prolly more than all of us put together, he just doesn't publicize knowledge as much as we do

Shep Cares

I will take the meaning of that "laughing face" to mean you're not serious.

But, if you are serious, that it only happens in the chat room, then you can understand why 9 out of 10 think he never has offered anything to the board.

Read this thread alone and ask yourself "what has he offered".

A few attaboys. And, a few threats. No substance.

Do a search for all of his posts. That's all you find. At least in the hitting threads.

Him joining the dialogue with information would benefit the board much more than his baiting.

BlueDog

I am definitely interested in that retention research. That sounds>
v-e-r-y i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g. (Meant In a good way) Retention>you may be on to something there BD. Sincerely, Shep

Shepster, if Game wants to keep all his knowledge to himself as you say, why does he hang around here and throw insults?

When I post this smiley, I am generally referring to a S-Eating-G

Linear, you taught me what a read was

Evening Fellas, Shep Cares but has to go to sleep....Will talk manana, got to dream about our future Hitting Academy and those homeruns Ryan Patterson mashed tonight. peace, Shep Knows

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:


Linear, you taught me what a read was

Explain please.

Info,

Don't you remember the read posted that night when I first returned back and had not a clue what the other poster was talking about until you said, its a read Shep or something like that because I really didn't know what a read was till then. No pun just fun so don't be so defensive because I basically am a firm believer in your knowledge as well as your great catching mechanics as a 50 yr old as well as the great job you have done helping your son become a great hitter like zero to hero, in my book. That's the greatest notch anybody can have on their belt IMHO. Helping their son like you have yours, and on a professional level may I add. Good for you Poolshark, keep up the outstanding work, says Shep and Jerry, and we know.

Infopimp/BlueDog,

Are the same person??

I guess you think it's impossible for two guys to think the same.

Especially in light of what everyone else thinks? As in....the majority must be right?

Not in baseball sir.

quote:

Originally posted by Shepster:
...a 50 yr old..

Opening Day (night) is Thursday. Looking forward to it.

Go get em Info ! Maybe you'll inspire some younger players like Pat Borders has here in Vero Beach for Dodgers. peace, Shep

It's not that you think alike.
But you both have a condescending attitude toward's other poster's.
And I believe you do it on purpose, Just to get a rise out of people.
If that's not true than I apologize.
But it does seem that way. the EH

BLUEDOG:

quote:

Quite a few here have benefitted from private conversations with me, on the phone and through other means.....Some have sent me video clips, gotten replies and sent even more with improving swings.....And, it's all no charge..

For what it's worth I for one can attest to the above statement being 100% accurate having discussed the intricacies of hitting with Bluedog including phone conversations, emails, PM's as well as video analysis. The man lives, eats and breathes hitting. Granted he could be a little more tactful at times in his posts but foolish IMO to discount what he brings to the table as a hitting guru.

BlueDog has a student in me too NYDAD and deserves the board's respect, as well as Info.

Good Night Brothers,
Shepherd

Goodnight Shep, Sweet Dreams.
I have to go to work now. bye the EH

Maybe we both use a filter to decide who to talk with.

My biggest frustration is I often find where I want it for the player/coach more than the player/coach wants it for himself.

Fortunately, those are easy to weed out. And, unfortunately, they are prevalent here. Ask a kid to edit his poorly spelled, poorly worded post, and see what happens. Or, tell a high school coach point blank he's dead wrong on his hitting theory, or tell a former player he's dead wrong up front....watch how they respond. BTW, 95 out of 100 are.

So, I use a filter. If he can overlook me, I might have one worth working with. If not, thank you very much. Saves me some time and energy.

It is truly amazing how everyone else is wrong and you and Blue whatever his name is, are always right--- why arent you and he the end all be all for baseball at all level? where is your video and book? and your GURU WEBSITE?

Sorry, you got the filter.

quote:

My biggest frustration is I often find where I want it for the player/coach more than the player/coach wants it for himself

Its also the same with other players.

This is exactly why I'm just teaching and not coaching. The one year I took Head Varsity baseball position, we did make state playoffs but the players I had recruited were so spread out and not focused enough or we could have won the state easily, hands-down. It was at this point I decided to just teach and work with "only" the ones who wanted it as much as I did. Few and far between but the ones I chose to help are now in Big Leagues or have been.

We have got to do something to get the EH off that darn night-shift Have a great day.

Peace Brothers,
Shep

quote:

Originally posted by theEH:
Infopimp/BlueDog,

Are the same person??

THEY ARE NOT! I've had several opportunities to share thoughts with BlueDog. While he and I have not always agreed, we have agreed to disagree and have had extremely constructive discussions. I truly respect what he brings to the table. InfoPimp? While I do respect his knowledge, we'd never run in the same circles. I do believe he is very sincere in his mission to discuss/breakdown hitting mechanics.

Good Morning all.
Shep, the good thing about the Grave Yard Shift is I don't miss any of my Son's Game's. And that's worth it. the EH

I can understand there desire to help only those willing to put in the work, and not wanting to waste there time on wanna be's.
I just believe in being just a little more Kind. the EH

I'm glad that whatever suggestion was taken and employed paid off in two hits.

A very interesting topic arose but has been buried in the sniping. RETENTION.

Much of what is taught today is explained in the physics of the movement. Angular displacement, leverage and so forth.

Terms from 'good ole country baseball' say the same things without complicating the explanation.

Depending on the age and level of play, simplicity always seems to travel faster and farther.

Terms such as

'make the bat sing' helps teach and recognize bat speed.

'squash the bug' helps to teach proper stance and weight shift

'finish your swing' helps promote good follow through

Keeping it simple in teaching has always been most effective at any level and promotes better retention of the lessons.

As to the swing or making contact, I have always been one to teach that a hitter should have three approaches in an at bat. The batter should be able to swing the bat for the best contact possible. The batter should be able to bunt with reasonable control of the bat in placing the bunt. The batter should be able to 'choke and poke' to go the other way.

I have found that these three approaches and abilities taught and retained produce the more productive batter.

There are many views and statistical analyisis that will say different things, but between the lines, keeping it simple works.

quote:

Originally posted by WillieBobo:
...Terms from 'good ole country baseball' say the same things without complicating the explanation.

You couldn't be more wrong.

quote:

'make the bat sing' helps teach and recognize bat speed.

Exhibit A

quote:

'squash the bug' helps to teach proper stance and weight shift

Exhibit B and THE main piece of evidence. You couldn't be more wrong.

quote:

'finish your swing' helps promote good follow through

Exhibit C

As long as these things produce the desired results, I don't mind being wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by WillieBobo:
As long as these things produce the desired results, I don't mind being wrong.

Say these cues to a group of 25 and you get 20 or more different interpretations.

That is why they are wrong.

That is why baseball lags in the world of instruction.

The old terminology is pitiful and confusing. Everything open to interpretation.

The new terminology goes a long way toward fixing that.

And those truly interested in hitting and hitting instruction can not deny that fact. If they do, they are filtered.

I have never squished a bug with my left foot and at the same time had more weight on my right. Have you? It is possible but few do it that way.

The new terminology may be more precise, but it requires far more technology than a game should.

Once the class room session has been completed, the student would then be required to exercise that which he has just been taught and be filmed in doing so.

Using the films, the instructor then shows the student what the lesson actually was trying to teach rather than what the student interpreted it to be.

I'll stick with such things as 'try this, if it works great'.

The high tech instruction that has become popular in the United States has shown its worth in the popularity and number of foreign born players in the pros.

If it works for you, wonderful. I'll keep doing what works for me.

Don't address the issues when they expose the problem.

Just ignore the problem and say "well, I'm going to do it my way".

That, folks, is baseball.

How many times have you squished a bug and had more weight on the other foot?

Or do you even understand what is being said?

The issue that you seem concerned with is universality in terms and methods. That would make a wonderful textbook. I hope that you have the time and inclination to write it.

Such a textbook would convey all the study and research that you have gleaned in your search. The instructors will know what they wish to convey, but they will still need to find the language that will get their point across.

In real life, students of the game are not interested in why things happen correctly, only in that they do. These students can range from the child hitting balls tossed by his dad to major leaguers.

Wouldn't it be terrible, if after all the time and effort put into this text book, that someone would come along and prove your theories wrong through their different approach?

I'll hold out for the next instructor who produces another Ted Williams

Filter engaged.

If we can't stay on point I'm not interested.

Gave you three tries.

Thank you and good luck in your approach.

Info,
Just to play devils advocate. You say that stated numerous things about the problem with baseball instruction. Yet players are hitting home runs in record numbers. Many of the hitters are from other countries that don't have the technology and information that we have. Most of the players that are hitting in the major leagues today learned from these faulty coaches and techniques. I agree that we should always look to learn and improve, but if you blindly fall in love with one belief and do not ever open the possibility to others you will only have success with a minute few. Hitters take various thought processes to the plate, some can directly conflict each other, yet they can both be successful. I don't think that we can say that 95% of coaches are wrong in their approach because it differs from yours. What we can say is that you do it differently from 95% of the coaches and have the same results. Although as we both agree, some coaches don't know what they are doing, but in my findings that is not the majority.

quote:

Originally posted by hsballcoach:
Most of the players that are hitting in the major leagues today learned from these faulty coaches and techniques.

Incorrect statement.

quote:

if you blindly fall in love with one belief and do not ever open the possibility to others you will only have success with a minute few.

Shows a lack of understanding of the issue.

quote:

I don't think that we can say that 95% of coaches are wrong in their approach because it differs from yours.

Sure we can. Is it 95% or 90% or 85%. I don't know. But their approach doesn't stand the video test.

quote:

Although as we both agree, some coaches don't know what they are doing, but in my findings that is not the majority.

Vast majority. Proven by their own words compared to video.

Maybe this will help you understand. From Ichiro to McGwire to Bonds to Pujols to Gwynn et al........THEY DO THE SAME THINGS!!!

These "same things" are not negotiable.

No matter how many times you and others keep saying "there is more than one way", and "your way isn't the only way", etc etc........you're wrong.

The truth is you don't know what they ALL do. And neither does the majority of the establishment. I know some hate that term but it's shorthand at this point.

Info,

This thread was started by an young man asking for help. You posted 19 times and never once offered anything to help him out.

Did he offend you in some way?

I guess he did when he got two hits using a different method.

quote:

Originally posted by NHFundamentalsDad:
Info,

This thread was started by an young man asking for help. You posted 19 times and never once offered anything to help him out.

Did he offend you in some way?

Are you unable to respond to the current topic?

Feel a little inadequate so you need to change the subject?

Feel a little "painted in a corner" as "one of those".

I get it.

Here is my evidence......

This is your first post in the thread. What does it say? NOTHING.

Filter is turned on for you. No evidence of any knowledge. Not worth my time.

OK, I give up.

What has the topic become?

Rentention of Knowledge?

The Perfect Swing Mechanics?

Universality of Terminology?

Mental Problems?

Or has some other topic appeared that has yet to become obvious?

I don't know about anyone else, but I am tired of seeing Infopimp's posts which focus 90% on insulting other members, and 10% on the topic of baseball. I have given him a timeout.

Info,

Do everyone in here a favor and filter all of us.

I was simply asking what you were offering the young gentleman who asked for help.

The topic is unchanged, other than your obvious attempts to just argue with those who were offering him help.

I orginally read the thread because I was interested in the subject and my original question stands.

What did you offer him ? His original post was certainly comprehensible, which is more than most everyone here thinks of this jibberish you keep throwing out.

So i know you will appreciate this one.

Son, you have to be able to open the can before you can paint.

I enjoy Info's attempts at being right and everyone else wrong, while he offers no input or suggestion.

I have had some good laughs reading his posts.

Reminds me of Irwin Corey

“HowEVER!” said Professor Irwin Corey, the World’s Foremost Authority, as he contemplates the leadership of these United States. Whenever Irwin Corey takes a breath and says “HowEVER!”—and he’s been saying it for more than 60 years now, in and out of places like the Village Vanguard—you know that he’s off on a new lunatic spiel of non sequitur, ultra sequitur, and/or parabolic sequitur that makes no sense whatsoever except that it makes perfect sense.


The topic is aptly named for people who are always right yet never say anything of value.

Lets go back to the young mans post where he asked how to clear his mind

We are now back at square one--- for me it is simple-- stop thinking about what all you are hearing from coaches, instructions, videos etc--you step in the box and say I am going to mash the first good pitch I see---I am going to be the best hitter I can be in this at bat

All of the 6 pages of gibberish and BS mean nothing--- pick up you bat--step into the batters box and mash son--- hit the first good pitch you see


Why do we try to make it so freaking complicated !!!!

You make it complicated because players will naturally use their hands and arms to power the bat.......This is pot luck technique, at best.....

Can't count the number of times I've heard scouts, coaches, players, instructors etc etc say this very thing in evaluations of hitters>

HE'S ALL ARMS IN HIS SWING WITH NO LOWERBODY MECHANICS

Once again, your right BD. peace, Shep

It would behoove any coach to not only develope a standard set of terminology but also to be able to demonstrate what they mean when they say it. InfoPimp isn't totally wrong in his assessment of is what you say what you mean. (Richard, I am commenting on what I percieve you meant. I understand that you'd never want me to do so. If I'm incorrect, I'm sure you will correct this.)

Bluedog and I have shared opinions on hitting via this open forum and pms. In doing so, I really believe that I can imagine what he is saying when he describes what he wants. I wish more of you truly were able to communicate with him in this way. I believe many take his remarks personal when what he is really doing is a type of Socratic Method asking/prompting/proding you to think about what you stated. When I accepted his comments in that manner, I opened up to his viewpoint and then could compare and contrast what we both believed. Having said this, I wish I were able to have my child take a lesson or two from Bluedog. I think we are very similar in what we believe and I would wish that my child were able to take a few lessons from someone so passionate about hitting.

One last comment on the true topic of this thread. If you ask any kid to step into the batters box without tried and true, TELL THEM, SHOW THEM, LET THEM, followed up by hours of proper repetition then you are doing a disservice to that player. Mental problems when a player enters the box, in my opinion, can be greatly diminished by proper preparation. JMHO!

And, I have very much enjoyed and appreciated discussing hitting with CoachB25.....He has contributed much.....

BLUE

you talking to me---if so address me when you do so I know

TRhit, you're not gonna get me thrown off of here.....When I leave, it will be of my own accord......

I appreciate the way that Info. so eloquently reinforced my thoughts exactly. As he said, Ichiro, McGwire, Bonds, and Pujols do many of the same things (actually he said exactly). Yet, if you asked them their approach to hitting they would probably all be slightly different. That reinforces the belief that all hitters do not take that same approach, even though they achieve similar results. Pujols and Bonds have different swings, both have good use of the body. As for thinking in the box, as Bluedog has probably learned in his research of how the brain learns(we studied this as a district last year and it is very fascinating), when you step into the box you should be thinking about the situation and the pitch but not about the swing mechanics. The swing needs to be a reaction to what the body has learned, if brain is trying to sequence events in the box, you will swing after the ball hits the mitt or at a curve in the dirt. A pre-pitch small reinforcer such as "let the ball get in on you" or "keep the hands in" should be about the extent of it as far as thinking about mechanics in the box.

quote:

Mental problems when a player enters the box, in my opinion, can be greatly diminished by proper preparation. JMHO!

Which addresses what I believe to be so.....The mental aspect of hitting is greatly exagerrated by most coaches.......

Hsballcoach, when you step in the batter's box, you should be thinking about nothing.....There are no exceptions to nothing....Nothing is just that, nothing.....

This is one hysterical psychological game.

No matter what anyone says, they are wrong because there is greater minutia that can be spoken about.

The game seems to work when the scolded party seeks approval and continues making suggestions until they get a pat on the head.

The one constant that I see is that the terminology that would be constant has yet to be developed.

But then again, that would end the game.

The fact is, many say things that have double meanings.....

I say, say what you mean and mean what you say....Then, and only then, have you voiced your true opinion....

For instance, you cannot clear your mind, yet think about the count and situation.......It's one or the other....

Has nothing to with scolding.....That's a word you came up with, Bobo.....Again, say what you mean and mean what you say.......How else will anyone ever know what your hitting beliefs really are?.......

We have now gone full circle--as I said good hitters dont think they react -- same as having a clear mind

Bluedog, I understand the idea of clearing the mind while in the box. But, by the same token, if you are facing a good pitcher you had better have some idea what you are doing there. I do want my hitters to know if a pitcher has a pattern to his pitches. He had better think about the fact that a certain pitcher throw a curve or change every time he gets ahead so that he can get his best swing. He should know what a guy likes to throw and when. Once the pitcher begins to move, then he needs to relax and react with that knowledge.

quote:

Bluedog, I understand the idea of clearing the mind while in the box. But,.......

Hsballcoach, the word "but" in your sentence makes everything before it obsolete....You really don't understand clearing the mind in the box...

Maybe TRhit can explain it to you.....I must give him credit.....He does understand the importance of clearing the mind in the box...He has been very consistent on this point........

I may not sleep tonight--

Relax Bluedog,
Not stirring the pot. I understand that different people approach things differently. Some pitchers enjoy the thinking game (Maddux) others (too many to name) just throw what is called. You MUST have an approach at the plate, you must think about what the pitcher is about to do and what you need to do. If you do not, good luck making it out of J.V. baseball. Once the pitcher moves, relax, use your knowledge, react, and win the battle. This is what true baseball is all about. Those that can't have a thought, prior to movement, at the plate may have a beautiful swing, but won't do much with it. Let me ask you this Bluedog, what would you look for if you are up to bat and the count is 2-0 with no one on base? If you said fastball in your best zone, your right! How did you figure this out? You had to think about the situation to develop a proper approach. Hope you hit a homerun by the way!

quote:

If you said fastball in your best zone, your right!

Hsballcoach, I would be right, in your opinion, but, not necessarily right....

BlueDog

Lakeland Tigers had a couple of s-e-t-p-r-o hitters.

Tell you what I think sometime this weekend.
Gotta run for now. peace, Rat Shapiro

Looking forward to your report, Shep.....