Mike Epstein Torque Drill ?

There is no torque in a high level swing.....

Blue Dog. I read a bunch of your responses with nothing positive nor do you explain much. I'm asking this question to see if anyone can explain what this is. Thanks !

Don't waste this area with you comments or please, explain something.

In general, it is a drill that works to open up the lower half of the body while the upper body works back. As Mike says "is is like winding a rubber band".

On a side note: Blue, I am still waiting for your reply on the other post if you want to reply to something. I won't hold my breath though.

I will try to write a longer post as time permits, because I have a lot to say on this subject, but it is late, so for now:

I truly enjoy most (if not all) of Mike Epsteins work. While it may not be perfect, I feel that it is the simplest way to teach "rotational" hitting. There are many teaching methods that will take the high level swing to the next level, but I feel Mike does a fine job. I have seen Mikes info work wonders for dozens of hitters, including some of the professional hitters that Mike has worked with from the majors down to the Northern Leagues Sioux City Explorers (where I used to live), and on a personal note, my little brother went from 2 home runs 2 years ago to 17 home runs last year after using Mikes teachings, and he only gained 10 pounds of muscle in that time.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
There is no torque in a high level swing.....

torque (tôrk)
n.

1. The moment of a force; the measure of a force's tendency to produce torsion and rotation about an axis, equal to the vector product of the radius vector from the axis of rotation to the point of application of the force and the force vector.
2. A turning or twisting force.

Sure, I can see why you would say none of that is happening when Hank Aaron, Babe Ruth, or Barry Bonds swings a bat.

don't waist your time trying to explain to BLUEDOG about torque in a swing.... he says there is NONE. He doesn't understand what torque is... when you counter rotate shoulder (what he refers to as scapular rotation) there is torque created.. if your hips lead your hands for even a split second, there has to be torque in upper thighs, abdominal region, to get palms flat at contact you have to create hand torque... when a hittere finishes his swing, torque stop the rotation of body....

but he has never seen torque in a swing...

I just asked what the drill IS ? And if anyone has a clip or explanation. Thats all I wanted. Whether its correct or not, I'm curious as to what the drill is.

There is load/unload with a cusp....No torque.......

If you're gonna understand this stuff, you gotta change your way of thinking.....If you think there is torque in a high level swing, your thinking just ain't right....

cusp?

Coachblu25

The drill is where the player faces to the front with both shoulders and feet are shoulder width apart. The player takes a normal step with his left foot for a RH batter. After stepping forward the player will lower his back knee to just above the ground which forces his weight there. Then he will place the bat on the shoulder and twist his shoulders as for as he can around to the load position to do drills from this position which creates the torque.

Lems-

Back knee is nowhere near ground... feet are typically 6-8 inches apart, take the step... for drill purposes (dry swings only) rest bat on side of shoulder (lat. delt), close top half...

once swing has begun, player sits (slightly) on back leg.. etc. etc...

Thanks Lems. This is all I was asking. Anyone have a video of a player doing this ?
I'm sure Blue Dog Does.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/pro;jsessionid=1yij...&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

This sure ain't sitting on the back leg....

great image BLUE, you can def. see in that swing that there is no hip rotation until front foot lands... and for that torque drill, the slight backlean of body sits on the foundation of the back leg.. you rright all swings aren't all the same everytime... that pic of Clemente is a pure linear hit, on the pitch way up... he swings on his axis or actually out in front of it (axis that was established in stride)...

Diablo, you are brainwashed....Graduate from Epstein and learn.....Hitting is not rotational vs. linear.....A high level swing is about efficiency....Not sitting on the back leg and counter-rotating....MLB hitters don't do the stuff you and Epstein preach.....

I really liked Roberto Clemente, he was a great player, but....

The video clips of Clemente look like two seperate swings, neither of which could be called his best swing. In fact, the second clip shows him being completely fooled, his timing way off and just waving (reaching) at the ball. Does anyone actually think that is a good swing?

quote:

There is no torque in a high level swing.....

Blue-
Torque is defined as the product of radius, force, and the sine of the angle between force and radius: radius is measured from the pivot point (center of rotation), and points away from the pivot when it is considered as a vector. Torque is the agent of rotation.

That is not me, that is Newton's 2nd Law, i believe... if you do not think that ALL ROTATING objects have torque... start re-writing all the physics books, and correct Newton.

unless you are going to tell me that a hitter does not rotate when he swings....

PGstff-

completely agree... you will prob not find many more clips of CLemente swinging like that... that is not the swing he repeated throughout his career... but, we have to agree that he made one heck of an on-th-fly adjustment...

I get confused by the word "torque". Whether it happens or doesn't happen scientifically... does it really matter to the hitter?

If someone could teach the perfect most efficient swing... wouldn't the results be the results without even mentioning or even thinking about the word torque?

I understand that many on here are much deeper in their search for perfection. I can appreciate that, but guess not quite smart enough to understand the importance of every term and it's realationship to hitting.

Does the word leverage mean anything to anyone?

I'd add that the 'torque drill' is the starting point of several drills that Epstein teaches with. I bought his DVD a couple of months ago and am using his drills on my son (he's always the guinea pig). I'm very impressed with the results, I'll now be comfortable using the drills with our team this fall. If you're thinking about trying these drills I'd suggest getting the DVD since there are some finer points that you won't see without the full explanation.

StyleMismatch,

Thanks for that information. Obviously I have not seen the DVD. Maybe the word "torque" would be easier to understand after viewing the DVD. Or if I were an engineer! Or even a mechanic!

I kind of forgot the topic here was "Mike Epstein Torque Drill?" Sorry if it sounds like I'm a naysayer. I'm not!

The big problem in teaching anything regarding baseball is the terms used-- every day a new term pops up but it always gets back to basics when you see it in actuality--that is why baseball teaching has to be one on one not on the internet--on the internet a term can mean various things to various people

Go ahead !! call me old school if you want but that is how I see it

TRhit, there are other terms for it, other than old school......But, I'll let that be.....

There is no torque in a high level swing.....

There is elastic energy transferred through the torso when the shoulders stay back as the hips open.

What would you call it?

Did someone say the Epsetin worked with Chipper and Andru Jones

Hi all - I am new to the forum and had to join because I could not resist some of the negative comments made here regarding the Epstein approach. I always find it interesting to hear "assumptions" made about the what Epstein teaches because 99.9999999% of the time they are incorrect. Anyone who has studied Ted Williams or Mike Epstein's teachings knows that while the batter stays behind their axis they are not sitting on their back leg......where or why was this assumption ever made? I suggest reading Ted Williams and Mike Epstein's book prior to making those types of statements.