Did anyone else share this yet?
I'm really sad to lose the spinners but I guess it makes sense that there is not enough room for both them and the Woo Sox.
Will these kids be looking for spots in the collegiate leagues?
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Thank you for sharing CMass.
That is some SAD stuff! Our son played for the Auburn Doubledays. That City needed the team and built a wonderful stadium. The community support was terrific.
We also saw the Lowell Spinners when our son played in the NECBL. Our son played in the field against Team USA. What a fantastic baseball MILB location.
i love baseball but I pretty much detest the “business “ of MLB and their desire to make a $ no matter the impact.
We are thrilled about the experiences baseball brought for our son. On the other hand, we are sickened to know all those people in great communities who made it possible for our son and many sons lose out to put more $$$$ into the pockets of billionaires.
@CmassRHPDad posted:Did anyone else share this yet?
I'm really sad to lose the spinners but I guess it makes sense that there is not enough room for both them and the Woo Sox.
Will these kids be looking for spots in the collegiate leagues?
The Spinners had a bigger problem than the new Worcester Sox. The New Hampshire Fisher Cats are only 35 miles north in Manchester NH. It placed the Spinners in the middle of a 75 mile stretch with three teams. They’re also short season competing against AA and AAA teams. I’ll bet a NECBL or Futures team ends up in the park in the summer. UML uses it in the spring.
Any thoughts on some of these teams going independent?
@RJM posted:I’ll bet a NECBL or Futures team ends up in the park in the summer.
I hope so. Maybe the bravehearts. I know they were pretty disappointed to see the Woo Sox come to town.
I always thought that there were too many levels.
I dont understand why they do not just put all their newly drafted players together and have instruction for everyone and just play baseball, then assign them the following spring.
@TPM Sometimes it is hard to follow how many teams some organizations have. Rookie, short rookie, international rookie, 3 or 4 divisions of A, etc. I hate to see a consolidation as it means fewer players get to continue to chase their dreams. At the same time, some of them should stop and begin their post-baseball careers.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:@TPM Sometimes it is hard to follow how many teams some organizations have. Rookie, short rookie, international rookie, 3 or 4 divisions of A, etc. I hate to see a consolidation as it means fewer players get to continue to chase their dreams. At the same time, some of them should stop and begin their post-baseball careers.
Agree.
Two teams that my son played on are on the cut list. I can tell you both places were terrible. Why would you ever spend money on a player then put them in an economically depressed town with horrible field conditions to play in a stadium with no one there? He was sent there for short season Penn League right after the draft and unfortunetly twisted his ankle in a hole in the outfield during PFP and fortunately sent to Jupiter for the rest of the season.
Had several guys drafted that I went and watched. Felt so bad for some of them in rookie ball. Playing on small fields with less than 25 people watching games. Some later in A and AA ball in bad conditions. I think some did it to see how bad they wanted it.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:@TPM Sometimes it is hard to follow how many teams some organizations have. Rookie, short rookie, international rookie, 3 or 4 divisions of A, etc. I hate to see a consolidation as it means fewer players get to continue to chase their dreams. At the same time, some of them should stop and begin their post-baseball careers.
With 84% of American MLBers now coming from the first ten rounds and 94% from the first twenty rounds a lot of MiLBers are chasing a mirage. They’re Single A roster filler for the legitimate prospects. A position player drafted after the twentieth round is really chasing a mirage.
(Waiting for someone to do the research and find the handful of American MLBers taken after the 20th round. It always happens with these kinds of posts as if it’s the norm.)
Years ago Mojo Network did a series on six D’Back prospects ... Carlos Quentin, Chris Young, Dustin Nippert (called up by Rangers, ended up in Korea) Brian Barden (called up by Cards), Bill Murphy (called up by Jays) and Casey Daigle (called up by D’Backs, married Jenny Finch)
Quentin said it was eerie playing in stadiums so empty he could hear the lights buzz while he was playing.
The funniest line was when Quentin was called up. He tossed his per diem money on the bed and counted it. He said, “Wow! This is more than my AAA paycheck!”
@RJM posted:With 84% of American MLBers now coming from the first ten rounds and 94% from the first twenty rounds a lot of MiLBers are chasing a mirage. They’re Single A roster filler for the legitimate prospects. A position player drafted after the twentieth round is really chasing a mirage.
(Waiting for someone to do the research and find the handful of American MLBers taken after the 20th round. It always happens with these kinds of posts as if it’s the norm.)
Here is one. Matt Adams aka Big City, currently with Mets, drafted by Cardinals in 2009.
Matt was drafted in the 23rd round out of Slippery Rock University, a D2 in Pennsylvania.
I often think that a lot of success is based upon how good a team is at developing players. Some obviously are better at it than others.
RipkenFanSon played part of last summer on one of the teams on the chopping block. Right when we were set to visit, he was moved up, so we didn't get out west.
He is chomping at the bit to get the season started. When I told him that like the majors, Milb games will likely be games without fans, he said "That's OK. Several of my college games were in nearly empty stadiums."
@Ripken Fan posted:RipkenFanSon played part of last summer on one of the teams on the chopping block. Right when we were set to visit, he was moved up, so we didn't get out west.
He is chomping at the bit to get the season started. When I told him that like the majors, Milb games will likely be games without fans, he said "That's OK. Several of my college games were in nearly empty stadiums."
Any word on what's happening. My son's Clemson mate just got a job as pitching coach for Charleston River Dogs. He is chomping at the bit too.
Most milb don't have large crowds unless they are close to the Big League team. I would rather see less teams and let the players get more money.
If one gets to play in Mexico, standing room only, every night, every town. They even let the convicts out to come watch games, amazing! Puerto Rico just about the same experience!
Nothings for sure. Some say no minor leagues at all this season, though you would think some of the higher levels would be in to be there for big league. I imagine all eyes are on the states that "reopened" earlier (like GA).
@TPM posted:I always thought that there were too many levels.
I dont understand why they do not just put all their newly drafted players together and have instruction for everyone and just play baseball, then assign them the following spring.
I read the article from 538.com and it basically said that 80% of the players in the minors are there to play the 20% that have a shot at the show.
@Shoveit4Ks posted:I read the article from 538.com and it basically said that 80% of the players in the minors are there to play the 20% that have a shot at the show.
Pareto Principle alive + well. Makes sense, thanks for sharing Shove ~
@Ripken Fan posted:Nothings for sure. Some say no minor leagues at all this season, though you would think some of the higher levels would be in to be there for big league. I imagine all eyes are on the states that "reopened" earlier (like GA).
My son has two friends that were drafted early last year. They are both home and said they have heard zero.
@Shoveit4Ks posted:I read the article from 538.com and it basically said that 80% of the players in the minors are there to play the 20% that have a shot at the show.
That's right, but why couldn't the 80% and the 20% have gotten instruction together? Or play together, perhaps not the HS drafted, who did usually get separated with the international players along with late senior signs.
Just a thought that I always had, too late now for that anyway.
Do your players get any benefits?
Teams are going to leverage the current situation to improve facilities, align teams regionally, and to reduce draft bonus offerings. The college Junior getting $100K as a 30th round pick is probably a thing of the past. It will be $20K or take your chance as a Senior. They are just trimming the budgets where there is no MLB players union to stop them. They are taking from the most poorly funded area but a dollar is a dollar. All the cuts don't make up for one bad signing, but it is still real money that the owners can spend to try to generate more revenue or to pocket. Billionaires didn't make their money worrying about the minimum wage employee.
A minor league player has gone through a selection funnel that is keeps narrowing. From High School they either filtered to the minors or were to a college. When at college they demonstrated enough talent to be selected by a MLB team to participate in their organization. It is obvious that the most talented players are in the first 100 picks or so. They just have elite physical skills that set them apart. If a player can afford to be part of the 80% they are still in the .0 something % from the peers they played with in high school. From what I've seen the organizations provide a great deal of instruction and expend a significant amount of funds on trying to improve every player.
Making the Majors is a rare opportunity for most players. Take a look at Baseball Reference and you quickly see that in the top 100 a very small number have more than a cup of coffee or end up as AAAA players. Most players despite draft round have a level of talent of significant value. On a recent podcast I heard a former GM of a two time World Series Champion state he first thought that talent was 70% of the equation and mental was 30%. He learned the opposite was true. Some with more talent simply cannot get over the failures they experience in the game or deal with the grind. This is probably why some of the less talented players do make it to the Majors. Talent, injuries, financial strain, or desire is often the driver leading a player to leave the game. Obviously, if talent is the issue either the organization or a players self awareness tells them it is time to move on.
All players are in the same boat. Either move up or move out. I know of a recent player (pitcher) that was released after three (somewhat successful) seasons in the minors. He was around the 100th pick and received a $500K bonus. I don't think he thought his initial road would end as it did. Meanwhile I know a 20th round pick that was a Senior College sign consistently have excellent seasons and move up every year. He would fall into the Matt Adams type of sign. A guy with talent but nothing off the charts, just a guy that can play baseball at a very consistent and high level.
My view is you play as long as you can (financially, talent, etc...) and as long as you enjoy it. When you no longer enjoy playing the game or the work required then get a real job. Hopefully, the players have a plan B because plan A will work out only for a few.
Nicely put Baseballfan1965, gave a glimpse into the MILB journey. I agree with " On a recent podcast I heard a former GM of a two time World Series Champion state he first thought that talent was 70% of the equation and mental was 30%. He learned the opposite was true. I've said it a few times that IMO my son is not physically gifted in height/weight/speed/strength but it's his mental approach and understanding of the game is what makes him have the success so far. This helps him have the ability to execute during games and not rely on talent alone. Put both together and it gave him an advantage over talent alone players. MILB besides being a talent weeding out process, it also gives a glimpse for both player and organization who can handle tough situations, non-ideal playing conditions, being income depressed, etc. I've met and seen a few of my son's teammates who on the outside have all the physical tools to make it to the bigs. However, for unknown (to me) reasons they can't get out of the minors or have been released. Another factor that plays into it is the have/have-nots. A player not only requires proper training but also must take care of their body/mind. Proper place to live, bed, nutrition, personal trainer, personal gym, all require $$. Unless the player was a high pick with a big signing bonus, wealthy parents, etc. many MILB can't afford these "luxuries" that high picks can tap into. It is unfortunate that many players will be forced to move on from their baseball dreams. I enjoyed watching and meeting players/parents from each level and being part of their dreams, rooting for them to have a great game, to move up level by level.
@Trust In Him posted:Nicely put Baseballfan1965, gave a glimpse into the MILB journey. I agree with " On a recent podcast I heard a former GM of a two time World Series Champion state he first thought that talent was 70% of the equation and mental was 30%. He learned the opposite was true.
There you have it. How any times have we heard Bob (Consultant) talk about the 6th tool on HSBBWEB?
5 round draft with severely reduced number of pro teams will have a lot of 6th tool, 30/70 guys wasted😐
@TPM posted:Here is one. Matt Adams aka Big City, currently with Mets, drafted by Cardinals in 2009.
Matt was drafted in the 23rd round out of Slippery Rock University, a D2 in Pennsylvania.
I often think that a lot of success is based upon how good a team is at developing players. Some obviously are better at it than others.
Ha! Family member teaches there.
Perhaps there will be a rise in Independant leagues? Our local team, the St. Paul Saints, has a beautiful new stadium. The one in Fargo for the Red Hawks is nice, too.
I think it made sense to cut the minors some as mlb already had by far the biggest player dev system of all major sports. It just doesn't make sense to draft lots of players who only have a 1% chance to make the majors from day one. A 20 round draft would fit that well too.
Sure some stars were drafted later than 20th but with 20 rounds teams would look harder in rounds 15-20 who at least has mlb tools even if it is a long shot and draft less fillers, seniors and undertooled weaker conference performers. College trackman data can help them with finding those guys (high game EV, high spin rate...). I could even see a further contraction later to 3 teams per franchise (90 teams instead of 120) with drafted players going to an extended camp with lots of training and intrasquad games instead of rookie ball.
I just hope this saved money really goes into better facilities, better training environment, better nutrition and player salaries.
Also sucks for the communities and the young fans.
Not baseball but tennis was contemplating helping lower ranked players (like 200-700 in the world) and Austrian tennis player dominic thiem who is a top 5 player currently rejected the idea saying I played at those lower levels and found many of them were not professional not living 100% for tennis and instead he said this money could be spent better.
I think this is a problem the minor leaguers have, the guys who made it through romanticize that time and say I made it through so you can.
Wouldn't it make sense with contracted minors to leave the freshly drafted players, especially HS who are not ready for full season ball to keep them at the complex the first year with lots of training and driveline style live at bats and intrasquad games?
I guess if minors are contracted to 4 teams per franchise that could resolve some of the roster crunch and possibly also develope young players better and give them more reps.
The Orioles have released 37 minor leaguers. With 40 teams cut we can probably expect at least 1000 minor leaguers (33 per team) being released and not replaced by new minor leaguers.
Jack Welch was famous as an executive for cutting dead wood from corporations. Anywhere he went as CEO was a great stock to purchase. Some thought he was ruthless and cold hearted. He told the media when he lets people go he’s doing them a favor. Now they can move on to something they will likely be more successful.
The minor leaguers who will be released by the restructuring of MiLB likely had odds of slim and none of ever becoming a MLBer. They can move on to real life. If they’re not convinced it’s over they can try Indy ball.
Many of the players they cut had past the "prospect" phase. Every year teams sign a large number of <>16 year old Latin players. Some to significant bonus money. They obviously want to give them a few years to mature and develop. It is somewhat beneficial for the teams to bring those players that they think are going to get cut back to Spring Training for one last look. Since Spring Training is not a paid activity the team is out on the room and board which is not that high a cost to double check on an investment. All teams are paying players $400 a week through the end of May I'm surprised more teams have not cut players that are most likely not sticking with the organization. It is a copy cat industry, more teams will follow the Orioles lead. I'm sure in some cases it is a total surprise but for others they see the writing on the wall.
Yeah Sure, you could definitely argue that most minor leaguers are non prospects and the milb contraction reduces the number of guys who are not making it. Maybe with the improved training methods player development is less of a numbers game and you need less quantity and could put more focus on training quality even though some of it will always be just doing well and competition and the best swing, good tools and so on are no guarantee you are going to hit so some guys are just guys who don't stop hitting even of they have mediocre tools or an ugly swing but still just hit. That is not the norm of course but relatively rare cases.
You never know.
If it was still 2019 Mike Yastrzemski might well have been on that list.
"Players to be named later"
a great phase along with the 6th Tool. The pro scouts who scout the Minor League Teams are in a "special" class of Scout.
Long road trips, exchange of information with the Team mangers, the coaches, the "Club house Manager. It is important to recognize that each day 30 scouts are watching the Minor League players for a player to be named later in a trade by the GM.
They are my friends and I have often watched a game with their eyes. We discussed "body language" of each player.
In addition to the MLB scouts there are Pro scouts from Japan, Korea and China
evaluating the players to be named later!!!!
Bob
International Baseball 35 years
Great call on Mike Yastrzemski (Family name probably helped a little) but I thought he looked like a really solid player, you have to like that he stuck it out and had some success. I find it interesting how many players make it to the big leagues at age 28 or so and then have a very solid career. In reality the cost of minor league operations is trivial, however the players union can protect MLB players. So, the unprotected and underpaid end up being sacrificed at minor savings. How many minor league salaries equal one day of Chris Davis' salary?
MLB makes MILB a “brutal “ business.
Of course the players don’t really understand how cut throat or worse it is.
No matter where he is drafted, your sign is a baseball commodity What MLB is now doing is worse than the past. More $$$$ for MLB.
Oakland As have decided they won't pay minor leaguers this year. Definitely sucks for the players but orgs probably also is cash strapped.
Imo both Tampa bay and Oakland need to be relocated, it is obvious their market can't support an acceptable mlb payrol which is a pity as their front offices are really good and make them compete anyway. But the super low payrolls and empty stadiums despite winning records are just bad.
Mlb needs to find a solution for that.
Dominik,
Just like every MLB team, the A’s have never opened their books for profit and loss evaluations.
Their ownership is valued in the billions!
IMO, they do not deserve any benefit of the doubt on what they cannot afford especially for the rounding error MILB salaries would be for billionaires.
This is tiresome.
MILB not getting paid. MLB getting overpaid. College getting cut. Recruiting turned into money ball. MILB contracting.
Maybe it all should just blow up and be done. Its already absurd.
Go back to local mill/town semipro teams. It would probably be better entertainment and more competitive. And far cheaper for a family to attend.
@infielddad posted:Dominik,
Just like every MLB team, the A’s have never opened their books for profit and loss evaluations.
Their ownership is valued in the billions!IMO, they do not deserve any benefit of the doubt on what they cannot afford especially for the rounding error MILB salaries would be for billionaires.
I don't care about their books but they need to figure out a way to have an mlb payroll. I get owners not wanting to make losses but if you can't make profit while having a decent payroll you don't belong in mlb. Relocate or sell the team if you can't do it.
Also if teams want to do the 50 50 thing and have players subsidize losses that is fair but then let players also participate in profits which means opening books and do 50 50 every year. Players can't agree to 50 50 without owners permanently open books.
Jesus folks get a grip, the owners don't give a damn about the minors during good years...let it go.
The players are out of their minds, as typical, about what their collective worth is. That bine said the owners need to take the brunt of this one and they will. The y players are still going to need to work for around 70% give or take it seems to me. That is 60% of the prorated portion of the salary. so in simple numbers
10m contract, 82games = 5m, 70% = 3.5m give or take.
I'm not entirely convinced there won't be a strike this season. Between the virus and the salary negotiations, by the time they get going it will be the halfway point of the season. They can easily axe the other half and blame it on health concerns.
I hate the billionaire owner argument. It's almost as if people think they have nothing better to do than lose money just because they have it. These guys don't go into their personal checking accounts to fund the team, there are fixed budgets, partners, contracts, and plenty of other factors that go into the value of franchises which is a business with the purpose of turning a profit and creating value for the owner.
PA,
if the owners have never opened their books, how do you know anything about the pre and post tax and cash flow aspects to their business? One person who was at a high level disclosed his team broke even on season ticket sales. Advertising, television revenues, concessions etc were all profits.
Having negotiated with a team, I am of the opinion they will takes most every tactic to win and win big and never fully disclose to do so.
No one objects to their making a profit. Isn’t the issue their saying no profit or a loss: “take our word for it.”
@infielddad posted:PA,
if the owners have never opened their books...
I don't know enough, nor do I have a dog in the fight. I would prefer to have baseball around than not have it around. Whether that means the owners have to cave or the players have to cave, doesn't really make a difference to me. I just don't like the ~ but they're billionaires ~ argument that I've seen being tossed around. That was not directed at you either, I've seen a good amount of baseball writers taking that angle and I just think it's a lazy argument. The value of the ownership does not mean that they're required to pay more because they're worth more.
If the players have an issue with the payouts they're more than welcome to say no thanks I'll sit this one out. I don't like what Snell did but at least he's honest and says he doesn't think it's worth his time rather than play the blame game.
It’s not “just” that they are all billionaires, it’s that the games played by the players generate those billionaires revenue consistently valued over $10 billion per year
To me it is the NCAA but on a much larger scale and starting with a draft as opposed to free agency.
Starting with Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale through Curt Flood and then Messersmith and others the battle for the players has been steeply uphill every inch of the terrain.
For me, owners are like the NCAA but are even more monopolistic. They have no credibility but all the power
None of this is being done without recognition within major league front offices that a growing number of major college programs have improved significantly their ability to evaluate and develop talented players while they're in college. As one indicator of this, look at the movement of coaches increasingly between DI staffs and professional coaching/player development roles.
The recent recommendations to begin the DI season later in the year coincide with both the reduction in draft rounds and eventual elimination of approximately 40 lower minor league teams. The latter developments will boost the talent level in DI rosters and send low-A fans to DI games in the late-Spring and early Summer as an alternative to their former pastime.
@old_school posted:Jesus folks get a grip, the owners don't give a damn about the minors during good years...let it go.
The players are out of their minds, as typical, about what their collective worth is. That bine said the owners need to take the brunt of this one and they will. The y players are still going to need to work for around 70% give or take it seems to me. That is 60% of the prorated portion of the salary. so in simple numbers
10m contract, 82games = 5m, 70% = 3.5m give or take.
If the players are not worth it why do the owners need to tamper with the market so much and have all those salary suppression rules (draft, limited contracts for young players, luxury tax) instead of having a totally free market like soccer has in Europe were 17 year olds sign big free agent contracts and there is no salary cap?
I mean I get the argument the teams sell tickets and everyone is replaceable but why does Paris st. Germain then pay 20 mil a year to 20 yo kylian mbappe instead of replacing him with a random minor league?
The owners have a good reason to have this "socialist" market and not really a free market.
this isn't a contract negotiation, worst comes to worst there will be no baseball this year. Will be interesting to see how many players are willing to take the year off.
@old_school posted:this isn't a contract negotiation, worst comes to worst there will be no baseball this year. Will be interesting to see how many players are willing to take the year off.
Unlike collective bargaining agreements any potential earned money lost this year can’t be recovered in the future. Players have finite careers.
It won’t get better next year. The word around MLB is Mookie Betts screwed himself not signing the 10 year/300 mill offer from the Sox. He’s likely to get 25 mill per year next year due to lost revenue. At the time not signing was probably a good idea.
We would probably love to get screwed to the tune of 25 mill per year. But if Betts thought 30 mill was a good contract he would have signed it.
Why aren't the owners just open the books to the public permanently? That way they could prove if they need to save money to make profit?
@Dominik85 posted:Why aren't the owners just open the books to the public permanently? That way they could prove if they need to save money to make profit?
they don't need to prove anything, people will never be happy with what they see. there is literally no reason why any owner of a business would do that...stupid.
I don't care for how either side is acting with their high class entitlement issues. And if this is the best they can do......then they all need to go away.
I can spend my summer baseball money on tickets to college or independent leagues if they ever play. At least there you are watching players who want to be on the field.
@Dominik85 posted:Why aren't the owners just open the books to the public permanently? That way they could prove if they need to save money to make profit?
Baseball franchises are private businesses. It’s no ones damn business what they make. If they want to open the books to the MLBPA as part of negotiations that’s up to them. But the information would leak to the public.,
@RJM posted:Baseball franchises are private businesses. It’s no ones damn business what they make. If they want to open the books to the MLBPA as part of negotiations that’s up to them. But the information would leak to the public.,
I'm really not an expert on business stuff but isn't it public how much Amazon or Google make? Or is that just an estimation?
Dom;
If they were a Public Corporation, you can buy stock and as stockholder have access to theirfinancial statements. However the MLB and Minor League teams are LLC. Limited Liability Corp. No financials are required except to the partners. LLC can "pass thru" the depreciation and expenses to their Limited Partners.
Bob
@Dominik85 posted:I'm really not an expert on business stuff but isn't it public how much Amazon or Google make? Or is that just an estimation?
Those are publicly traded companies. They use their profit to increase their stock price. MLB teams are privately funded corporations. They don’t need to show anyone anything if they don’t want to. I wouldn’t in this situation.
The timing of the crisis for mlb also sucks. Other leagues have played large chunks of their season or are fully in their off season and thus lose less money. For example German bundesliga is playing again with no fans and players lose about 20% of salary the rest of the season after getting full salary before. That is not a huge loss for players. I guess nba players also won't lose more than 30% of their yearly salary.
Mlb players however are asked to lose 60-70% of their salary. That is not just owner greed but also because mlb just loses more money due to the timing but it is a big road block.
For the pre arb players it would probably still be better to play and get some money but some stars are probably saying screw this and just come back next year, I don't want to play for less money with no fans and annoying quarantine restrictions for the family.
If NBA players were asked to play for less than 40% of their yearly salary it would be tough to find an agreement either
Now that MLB and the owners have done their posturing they have a about a week to come to a decision and get started if they want to get in 80 games over the second half of the season.
Otherwise, screw MLB. There will be NHL and NBA playoffs this summer with the NFL on the horizon in the fall. I would rather watch NHL and NBA playoffs than monotonous MLB regular season games.
If someone like myself can have this view imagine what the casual fan is thinking?
I cant wait until there are real sports again, my God I have been watching NASCAR just because I don't know how it will finish!!! I don't care at all about hockey and I am walking around humming O Canada...lets get this done and move forward. Holy shit I may even be desperate enough to watch soccer....ok that is to far I already know it will be 0-0 after 90 minutes.
Do you think some HS draftees of the first two rounds will take under slot deals?
Typically HS guys have a bit more leverage and I guess many HS players will go to college or juco but I could see some HS kids taking 80 cents on the dollar to avoid being pushed back in the 2023 "super draft" (with all the extra good college players who didn't sign out of HS plus the new HS guys).
It will be interesting to see. My son was hitting with a dude yesterday expecting to be drafted somewhere 2-5 rds. For some reason he doesn't want to be drafted and just wants to sign as UFA. One of his thoughts is it lets him somewhat choose where he goes.
@Dominik85 posted:Do you think some HS draftees of the first two rounds will take under slot deals?
Typically HS guys have a bit more leverage and I guess many HS players will go to college or juco but I could see some HS kids taking 80 cents on the dollar to avoid being pushed back in the 2023 "super draft" (with all the extra good college players who didn't sign out of HS plus the new HS guys).
I happen to know a few kids who are in the mix for this year’s draft and I don’t think signability will be much different than any other year.
The high school kids who don’t want to go to school are more likely to sign under slot but that doesn’t mean that they will.
This is going to be an interesting draft to follow.
@hshuler posted:I happen to know a few kids who are in the mix for this year’s draft and I don’t think signability will be much different than any other year.
The high school kids who don’t want to go to school are more likely to sign under slot but that doesn’t mean that they will.
This is going to be an interesting draft to follow.
I definitely think a lot won't sign. Was just thinking about the guys on the fringes if they are afraid that the 23 draft will be overloaded due to all the HS guys going to college
@TerribleBPthrower posted:It will be interesting to see. My son was hitting with a dude yesterday expecting to be drafted somewhere 2-5 rds. For some reason he doesn't want to be drafted and just wants to sign as UFA. One of his thoughts is it lets him somewhat choose where he goes.
I agree with you on that TBP. I know of a grad student who had a year of eligibility left due to an injury. Went to P5 and was team's leading hitter and closer. I imagine he would be one of those players with multiple UFA offers. The signing is UP to 20K not assumed $20,000. Players can weigh the signing bonus as UFA, but they can also weigh each team's need as well as the organization's history.
Some posts on twitter today asked if there will be many UFA's that select the A;s, due to them being the only team to furlough, but not pay active minor leaguers in their organization. The Nationals may have had that in mind (public perception) as they reversed a decision to pay their minor leaguers $300 ($100 less). The Nats players were going to make up the difference--it was unanimous vote in a team Zoom call.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:It will be interesting to see. My son was hitting with a dude yesterday expecting to be drafted somewhere 2-5 rds. For some reason he doesn't want to be drafted and just wants to sign as UFA. One of his thoughts is it lets him somewhat choose where he goes.
That kid is better off leaving his education behind because he clearly isn't too smart to begin with. Pass on slot money to sign for 20k or less for the autonomy of choosing his pro club? C'mon.
@PABaseball posted:That kid is better off leaving his education behind because he clearly isn't too smart to begin with. Pass on slot money to sign for 20k or less for the autonomy of choosing his pro club? C'mon.
Agreed. Also, free agents don't get to negotiate for their college scholarship money. I am pretty sure FA contracts are year to year.
Has the whole world gone crazy? Go to college, get 4 years in then you can sign a FA contract!
@TPM posted:Agreed. Also, free agents don't get to negotiate for their college scholarship money. I am pretty sure FA contracts are year to year.
Has the whole world gone crazy? Go to college, get 4 years in then you can sign a FA contract!
Agreed. Not sure why a kid would want the shortest possible rope available.
No secret that the more money the have invested, the longer the rope.
@hshuler posted:Agreed. Not sure why a kid would want the shortest possible rope available.
No secret that the more money the have invested, the longer the rope.
If the player is a real prospect, he has an advisor aka agent. But sounds like he has gotten no professional advice. Even a scout would not tell that to a prospect!
It would be interesting to know where the "dude" got the notion he was "expecting to be drafted somewhere 2-5 rds"??? Is this his or parents "talking"? Or a PG / PBR ranking? A legit advisor or pro scout? Something missing in this picture!
Free agency is a 1 yr contract. MLB teams pick who they sign, not the other way around...With no proven, much less Professional, "track record", he may just end up undrafted and UFA as of June 12 or Aug 2.
There are several sites, including mlb.com, that have him listed as a 2nd and others down to the 5th. I'm sure he has an advisor, but either way he is around a lot of guys who would know the ins and outs of it. I'm not sure if any of them are offering their advice or not. His family has a ton of money, so maybe that plays into it. To me, $300k (or possibly a lot more) guaranteed sounds a lot better than up to $20k guaranteed.
@hshuler posted:Agreed. Not sure why a kid would want the shortest possible rope available.
No secret that the more money the have invested, the longer the rope.
There is a great deal of truth in that- coupled with those who are sons of former players. Definitely legacy is a big plus in the Draft. But the latest Milb cuts didn't spare sons of Roger Clemens, Raphael Palmiero, and Chris Hoiles.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:There are several sites, including mlb.com, that have him listed as a 2nd and others down to the 5th. I'm sure he has an advisor, but either way he is around a lot of guys who would know the ins and outs of it. I'm not sure if any of them are offering their advice or not. His family has a ton of money, so maybe that plays into it. To me, $300k (or possibly a lot more) guaranteed sounds a lot better than up to $20k guaranteed.
I understand that some clubs are better than others in terms of the minor league lifestyle, but none of that will offset the 300k dollar difference. Just because your family has money, does not mean you take less to sign with a "better" club. The ins and outs guys around him aren't doing much good for him right now.
If anything it sounds like he is saying this as an excuse in the event he goes undrafted.
Does't sound like he is too serious about pro ball or college! 
Maybe a "daddy's money" thing...
@PABaseball posted:I understand that some clubs are better than others in terms of the minor league lifestyle, but none of that will offset the 300k dollar difference. Just because your family has money, does not mean you take less to sign with a "better" club. The ins and outs guys around him aren't doing much good for him right now.
If anything it sounds like he is saying this as an excuse in the event he goes undrafted.
Like I said originally, seemed odd to me. I don't know what the guys he's working with are telling him, just heard him saying that. If it were my son I'd advise him to finish his degree unless he was a first or second rounder.
I also thought about the excuse factor, but based on everything I'm reading it is highly unlikely he doesn't get drafted. He seems like a really good kid to go with his baseball skills. I'll ask about it this weekend when my son has his next workout. I figured I'd bring it up here in case someone knew about a funky loophole that I hadn't read about.
"Trouble with the Curve"
this maybe the answer to your questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTHSqutzOcQ
When I evaluate hitters, I listen to the sound of the wood bat.
Bob
With all the scaling down baseball has done how in hell does Tim Tebow still have a roster spot?
(should be good for at least five pages 😁)
One unhappy camper with Tebow:
The Tebow thing is going to come back to bite the Mets. I understand why they’ve kept him and moved him around, but now would’ve been the time to cut him loose.
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Like I said originally, seemed odd to me. I don't know what the guys he's working with are telling him, just heard him saying that. If it were my son I'd advise him to finish his degree unless he was a first or second rounder.
It will be interesting to see what some of the guys (mainly college I'm thinking about) who thought they'd be one of the five rounds but weren't. Maybe just fell short. Do you roll the dice and say I'm going back to school to improve my standing next year? He may not have a good year, injury, coaching change whatever. No one knows how many rounds there will be next year- 5 again? I have a hunch it will be 10. Going back also means the player is another year older for next year's draft, which comes into play with organizations. Sort of a "bird in the hand" situation. ...
Drafts too are different in depth from year to year. Last year's draft was the "year of the SS." Not the case this year where the Nick Gonzales and Vandy's Martin may be more apt to play another position (Gonzales 2B), and the top HS shortstop may fall to around #23.
I thought next year wS a minimum of 20 rounds.
@Ripken Fan posted:It will be interesting to see what some of the guys (mainly college I'm thinking about) who thought they'd be one of the five rounds but weren't. Maybe just fell short. Do you roll the dice and say I'm going back to school to improve my standing next year? He may not have a good year, injury, coaching change whatever. No one knows how many rounds there will be next year- 5 again? I have a hunch it will be 10. Going back also means the player is another year older for next year's draft, which comes into play with organizations. Sort of a "bird in the hand" situation. ...
Drafts too are different in depth from year to year. Last year's draft was the "year of the SS." Not the case this year where the Nick Gonzales and Vandy's Martin may be more apt to play another position (Gonzales 2B), and the top HS shortstop may fall to around #23.
I don’t think any draft eligible college guy can improve their standing very much.
At some point these guys have to realize that age is the best leverage and when you go back to school it better be for the degree because you won’t get more money.
@PABaseball posted:That kid is better off leaving his education behind because he clearly isn't too smart to begin with. Pass on slot money to sign for 20k or less for the autonomy of choosing his pro club? C'mon.
Maybe it is a money doesn't matter situation (rich parents who will pay for college)? Or the kid is just not college material intellectually (but even then taking more money would make sense knowing the failure rate in pro ball).
@baseballhs posted:I thought next year wS a minimum of 20 rounds.
Yeah, I guess that what's projected. Given the $$ losses this year, baseball would probably drop the amounts of the signing bonuses (slots) for each of the first so many rounds to offset the losses.
@Ripken Fan posted:It will be interesting to see what some of the guys (mainly college I'm thinking about) who thought they'd be one of the five rounds but weren't. Maybe just fell short. Do you roll the dice and say I'm going back to school to improve my standing next year? He may not have a good year, injury, coaching change whatever. No one knows how many rounds there will be next year- 5 again? I have a hunch it will be 10. Going back also means the player is another year older for next year's draft, which comes into play with organizations. Sort of a "bird in the hand" situation. ...
Drafts too are different in depth from year to year. Last year's draft was the "year of the SS." Not the case this year where the Nick Gonzales and Vandy's Martin may be more apt to play another position (Gonzales 2B), and the top HS shortstop may fall to around #23.
I think the SS thing is because this years draft is so focused on college talent and not a ton of HS talent compared to last year.
There are almost no college shortstops in the majors as a SS (dansby swanson being an exception) and most college shortstops have to shift to second and third in pro ball.
This is a rather common thing for college players, college third basemen rarely make the majors either.
I think there is a few reasons for this, first the very top athletes who can hit tend to get drafted out of HS and also college coaches maybe try to stretch bats into tougher positions while mlb has enough bats to put a guy who can field there.
So, this is the reality of MiLB cuts as I read this morning Sports section. Talented, local kid loses his shot at an MLB roster spot. This is very discouraging as he did all the right things, but just had terrible timing with a once in a century pandemic.
He's got a Princeton degree to lean on, and it sounds like grad school is a possibility. It would have been great to see him get that MLB shot.
https://www.richmond.com/sport...18-a9bea2207180.html
@fenwaysouth posted:So, this is the reality of MiLB cuts as I read this morning Sports section. Talented, local kid loses his shot at an MLB roster spot. This is very discouraging as he did all the right things, but just had terrible timing with a once in a century pandemic.
He's got a Princeton degree to lean on, and it sounds like grad school is a possibility. It would have been great to see him get that MLB shot.
https://www.richmond.com/sport...18-a9bea2207180.html
Wow, those stats are pretty good. Here's one for the pitcher's side. I was surprised that the St. Louis Cardinals cut this: RHP – 26th round (2018). 6-0, 1.14 in 26 games (six starts), for 63 1/3 innings. The Cards also released some players who were drafted just last year including a former college teammate of my son.
Hope that Keller gets a shot to continue playing, caught up in circumstances, but with a good attitude.
@Ripken Fan posted:Wow, those stats are pretty good. Here's one for the pitcher's side. I was surprised that the St. Louis Cardinals cut this: RHP – 26th round (2018). 6-0, 1.14 in 26 games (six starts), for 63 1/3 innings. The Cards also released some players who were drafted just last year including a former college teammate of my son.
I see things a bit differently, probably because of my own son being released by his drafting team. There is nothing fair about it, perhaps you could call it cruel.
The minor leagues are loaded with talent, but unfortunetly, not all players have true ML talent.
The system is shrinking, less teams, less drafted.
The Cardinals do a great job of drafting good talent. However, now comes the huge downsizing, also due to the 400 a week stipend as promised.
And the draft.
I Think with the 50 man rosters proposed this year apart from the minor league roster fillers also the 4A type of players who are injury call ups could suffer.
Those guys are used so you can call up a player who doesn't embarrass himself in case of injury so that you dont have to burn service time and options of real prospects. Those are good players of course but usually they are worse than the best AA and AAA prospects, however the service time and options is more valuable to clubs than that marginal performance difference.
If there is a 50 man roster you can call up the real prospects without damage to service time, needing to clear 40 man spots and so on and thus teams might have less need for that 27 year old 4A type of player when you also can bring up your 22 yo AAA prospect who might not be fully ready but still better than some 4A options.
4A players may not have the future potential of a top prospect. But they’re more ready to help at the MLB level. They’ve been there before. At one point they were top prospects.
Update: so the kid who said he hopes he’s not drafted was picked in the second round.
SBD, you talkin about roids?
Had to look SARMS up. Do high school kids use that stuff too? Does it come up in MLB testing?
Kind of related story, a good friend of mine was coming up in the Expos org during the roid era. He advanced pretty quickly through rookie and A ball. Then at his next stop they told him to see the “trainer” who explained he was viewed as an MLB prospect but would need to bulk up to make it. The guy pulled out a roid kit and started telling my friend about the dosage like it was nothing. My friend told the trainer he didn’t need the juice and he would work on his own to make it. He was cut the next day.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:So because this is some little corner of the web, and really no one is watching. It's interesting to see kids being taken that you know have taken shortcuts to get there. Both this year and last year. I have to wonder how many more so are doing the same, and the pressure it puts on others to do so.
What the heck are you talking about? I mean seriously.
@SomeBaseballDad posted:Scarcasm right....
No, it's not sarcasm, I just asked you what you were talking about this being a little corner of the web and no one watching. You would be surprised.
Jealous much?
@SomeBaseballDad posted:So because this is some little corner of the web, and really no one is watching. It's interesting to see kids being taken that you know have taken shortcuts to get there. Both this year and last year. I have to wonder how many more so are doing the same, and the pressure it puts on others to do so.
Dude, that’s a bullshit comment. You don’t know what any kid has or hasn’t done. Including your own. Shut the f$ck up.
@adbono posted:Dude, that’s a bullshit comment. You don’t know what any kid has or hasn’t done. Including your own. Shut the f$ck up.
Edited
You are right, I don't know everyone that might be doing it. But the kid has played college ball for three years now so I know a thing or two.
Dallas huh, how ironic, my daughter lives there. My wife is going out the 19th. I can't make it then but I'll be there come Thanksgiving. I'd love nothing more than the opportunity to talk to you face to face. You game?
@TerribleBPthrower posted:Had to look SARMS up. Do high school kids use that stuff too? Does it come up in MLB testing?
Kind of related story, a good friend of mine was coming up in the Expos org during the roid era. He advanced pretty quickly through rookie and A ball. Then at his next stop they told him to see the “trainer” who explained he was viewed as an MLB prospect but would need to bulk up to make it. The guy pulled out a roid kit and started telling my friend about the dosage like it was nothing. My friend told the trainer he didn’t need the juice and he would work on his own to make it. He was cut the next day.
Awful.
@TPM posted:No, it's not sarcasm, I just asked you what you were talking about this being a little corner of the web and no one watching. You would be surprised.
Jealous much?
Jealous, of what? Isn't this thread about how screwed up things are right now. Hell if we would have agreed he would have been drafted three years ago, granted a 35-40 round pick and if he hadn't washed out by now he'd be one of the players getting cut. So I'm not sure what you're point is, except like the other poster to try to belittle me.