Minor league baseball unionization

I'm going to go with an Asimov quote "Insufficient data for meaningful answer"...

Pro ball is the dream of almost every ball player at some point - I gave up my dream at 13, but some athletes represented on site have or will get the opportunity to make it reality.

For me as a parent, the minors were a surprise at many levels. MLB has started to fix some of the issues already, like improving the pay and offering housing. My son did 4 years in the minors reaching AA (which payed roughly $11K per season - before taxes) - It's pretty hard to pay for 1 quality meal daily and safe lodging in New Jersey without going in the hole. It's a financial hardship if they didn't get a decent signing bonus or don't have parents who will continue to support the athlete.

I believe the MLB downsized the minors in advance of the changes that will get the minor league ballplayers to minimum wage - with or without a union. Ultimately I think the downsizing is a good thing, but it will greatly limit the amount of opportunity (The MLB is not going to increase their minor league spending if there's not a return on investment). The percentage of players that get to the MLB after the 10th round is very low, and oddly 30% of the players that do get to the majors have careers with less than 20 RBI's (hitters) or 20 K's (pitchers).

Did/does the MLB leverage dreams to underpay their athletes, I believe so - but given the opportunity most would still go for it!

I don't know if a union will help (hopefully it will), but I do know that unions collect dues, and unless the players are paid more, they can't afford very much...

Wondering....how could it hurt???  By paying dues only?

Honestly when a union rep visited my sons minor league team years ago he felt the union  really didn't  give a crap about helping  the minor league players that didn't make much money.....and therefore couldn't really help the union out$$$....  He felt like he would only be paying dues and getting nothing for it.

If you want them to make more money let them become free agents at the end of the season each year.....almost like a real workforce, teams will be forced to pay more as the players won't be capitive anymore.

What sane minor leaguer would sabotage his potential MLB career by walking out on a minor league team? Who are the experienced players who will be the player team reps?

84% of American/drafted MLB players come from the first ten rounds of the draft. They receive signing money versus others who get next to nothing. Players who receive signing bonuses are less likely to walk out for better conditions than players who don’t receive signing money.

It just seems like the needs of the minor league players aren’t all the same.

@CollegeParentNoMore posted:

If you want them to make more money let them become free agents at the end of the season each year.....almost like a real workforce, teams will be forced to pay more as the players won't be capitive anymore.

If they were free agents at the minor leagues that would negate the effect of the draft wouldn't it?

More capitalistic sports than mlb like premier league soccer do it like that but mlb is a bit more socialist and wants to support weaker markets by giving them control over prospects due to the draft.

If teams could just buy minor leaguers wouldn't the yankees and dodgers and other rich teams just buy all prospects?

I agree that the needs of all minor leaguers are not the same and neither are the needs of the minor leagues the same as the majors, but I will be interested to see how the idea of having a separate bargaining unit within the player's association will play out. I'm mostly worried that the advocates group will be less effective than they have been rolling into the association. I think it's probably a good thing, but it will be a process.

To all player, parents and whiners about MiLB environment - welcome to D3 conditions, don’t like it? Get better or move on there are 5 thousand waiting to take your place. Nobody cares folks.

@old_school posted:

To all player, parents and whiners about MiLB environment - welcome to D3 conditions, don’t like it? Get better or move on there are 5 thousand waiting to take your place. Nobody cares folks.

I've always thought of this analogy. The argument on the other side is that the salaries are drastically different compared to a 25% scholarship at the D1 level vs 0% at D3.

That being said, there is enough of a demand to enter the workforce where the clubs can tell the players to kick rocks. And if the milb guys don't feel the pay is worth their time they can always walk away. I kind of laughed at all the college athletes who complained the NCAA was exploiting them and abusing their image. Yet they continued to sign up for the exploitation and abuse. Not the same but similar.  

How much money does a 3 year complex guy really bring to the org? How much does he "deserve" to make. I don't know. What I do know is that unionizing and striking for higher wages is probably the next move assuming no deal is made.

@PABaseball posted:

I've always thought of this analogy. The argument on the other side is that the salaries are drastically different compared to a 25% scholarship at the D1 level vs 0% at D3.

That being said, there is enough of a demand to enter the workforce where the clubs can tell the players to kick rocks. And if the milb guys don't feel the pay is worth their time they can always walk away. I kind of laughed at all the college athletes who complained the NCAA was exploiting them and abusing their image. Yet they continued to sign up for the exploitation and abuse. Not the same but similar.  

How much money does a 3 year complex guy really bring to the org? How much does he "deserve" to make. I don't know. What I do know is that unionizing and striking for higher wages is probably the next move assuming no deal is made.

And nobody cares. It is supply and demand nothing more. Go play over seas, or how about this get real job! Minor leaguers are a dime a dozen, there is no leverage so you will make no money. Get better or get out….you all supported it in college when you were the top of the food chain. How’s it feel now….yeah it sucks, now get over it like the rest of the players who didn't get this far.

Observe the new buyers of the Angels.

Bob

Minor league pay hasn’t been adjusted for inflation for years. It’s should be adjusted. Then have a year to year COLA increase. The players get food in the clubhouse. More and more teams are housing players. The Sox house players through AA with host families. What more do minor leaguers need? Otherwise, they can go get a regular job.

Players want to make as much as they can and teams want to pay them as little as they can. No different than the employee/employer relationship at any other job.

So it should be no different than any other job where the employees can unionize if they choose. It has always been strange that MLBPA is able to negotiate things like draft rules that affect minor leaguers without minor leaguers being MLBPA members.

I think changes in player compensation will come from a conscientious team owner who can afford to work with operation losses with other teams to follow the trend rather than waiting for a union that will never come. Too many folks will be happy to cross the line for an opportunity at the brass ring.

I had a reply, and then thought about the international MILB players. With two differing draft systems and signing bonus payouts, it's tough to put all players in one basket.

Domestic Playes , generally, need to fall within the top 4-5 rounds or parents will be funding the dream.

@2022NYC posted:

I think changes in player compensation will come from a conscientious team owner who can afford to work with operation losses with other teams to follow the trend rather than waiting for a union that will never come. Too many folks will be happy to cross the line for an opportunity at the brass ring.

Minor league teams don’t pay player salaries. The affiliated organization pays the salaries. I can’t imagine a parent organization paying significantly higher salaries for about 125 minor leaguers. Most of these minor leaguers are roster filler for the handful of prospects. 84% of American MLbers come from the first ten rounds of the draft. They receive signing bonuses.

What is the value of a Mike Piazza or any other minor league player who beats the draft odds?  Pujols was a 13th rounder as well.  How do you go from a JUCO 13th rounder to a MLB star in one year?  What were the scouts not seeing?  The draft is a very inexact science.  Just looking at WAR even in the first round of 30 players the primary WAR value of the round is usually provided by a few players.  Safe to say that as more rounds go by fewer players make it to MLB.  The first round is often a self fulfilling prophecy for GMs that have invested a ton of money into an 18 year old high school SS that never really develops to more than a borderline player in MLB.  Most first rounders get pushed to the big leagues sometimes failing upwards.  If you choose the player you don't want to admit it was a bad decision.  Then other teams sign the guy thinking he was such an 18 year old stud we can fix him.  Needless to say a drafted pitchers is an injury waiting to happen for about 30%.  Taking a high school pitcher early is like a roulette bet.  They may hit big, but most go bust due to many reasons. 

Teams definitely choose how to invest resources.  The Dodgers have a Chef with a mobile kitchen following their teams to ensure nutritional goals are met.  I assume they have determined that investing in development is worth the cost.  You see players like Max Muncy and Mike Yazstremski that are journeyman players who provide tremendous Major League value.  How many similar players walked away? 

I don't trust that much in MLBPA really addressing issues.  The Minor League Advocates group was providing a deep dive for Congress so support the Anti Trust investigations in late August.  Was this a case of getting on the good side of Congress?  It is safe to say MLBPA has negotiated away the rights on non-members for the last 50 years.  The rounds of drafts, draft amounts and other aspects of the draft have been set by MLBPA and the owners to stop teams from spending on the draft allowing more money to go the to the owners and players. 

Minor league players going on strike would be virtually useless.  The 40 man players are on the MLBPA rolls.  So, play the season and if you cut players from the 40 man add players and now they have to go where you want them to go.  Obviously, the MLBPA had the opportunity in the Spring to pull minor league players in and represent them but that would have hurt their negotiating power.

I really don't expect much to come from it.  Major League owners are somewhat embarrassed when the masses learn just how little players are paid.  They have a cup of coffee and quickly forget about the embarrassment and move on to there other multi-million dollar investments. 

In fairness many teams are now providing housing and several meals a day.  For a player without a family this is a step up from college.  If they were high school players without college one would think they got a bonus to sign.  Off season expectations are a problem but players are chasing a dream and there are ways to make it work.  At some point a player has to decide what is right for them.  I don't think we should ever condone the poor salaries. or lack of off-season pay.  That is just a bit of bitter cynicism.   All aspects of minor league baseball have improved for most from facilities, scheduling, travel, housing and pay.  In the end players have a choice to work elsewhere.  My view is stick with it as long as you enjoy playing which is no different than what it should be for a high school or college player.  For most players they are out of professional baseball within two seasons and it is a blip that may help them in a coaching opportunity or just add to their maturity.  Obviously the maturity issue is not always the case 

@BaseballFan1965 posted:

I really don't expect much to come from it.  Major League owners are somewhat embarrassed when the masses learn just how little players are paid.  They have a cup of coffee and quickly forget about the embarrassment and move on to there other multi-million dollar investments.

In fairness many teams are now providing housing and several meals a day.  For a player without a family this is a step up from college.  If they were high school players without college one would think they got a bonus to sign.  Off season expectations are a problem but players are chasing a dream and there are ways to make it work.  At some point a player has to decide what is right for them.  I don't think we should ever condone the poor salaries. or lack of off-season pay.  That is just a bit of bitter cynicism.  

It's hard to argue for more pay when they are all comfortable signing contracts knowing what their paychecks are going to look like.

As @auberon stated it’s a bit crazy for the player’s association to negotiate with the MLB on behalf of all payers and minor leaguers not have a voice at all. I think the point of involving minor leaguers was to give them a seat at the table because otherwise they are always part of the concessions made to ownership.

Publicity and pressure have forced much better conditions in the minors. All teams are required to provide housing. How well they do it varies widely from team to team but at least when my kid got traded halfway through an trip to an away series he only had to figure out how to get back to his home field, pack out and meet his new team on their away trip. He didn’t also have to worry about breaking a lease and finding somewhere new to stay.

Having said that, it is still a very manipulated market and there are a lot of very good players who are paid well below their value in signing bonuses because they don’t have “leverage.” Then those players do not make a living wage. While some movement has been made in the right direction I think it is an important step for MiLB players to have a voice.

When I asked my son if he got the email about the union his response was, “I don’t know. I haven’t checked emails in a while.” 🤦🏽‍♀️🤷🏽‍♀️