Misleading College Showcase Invites

Well, they are raising money for their programs, so perhaps it's not that they should be more selective with who they invite ---- the deception is in the wording.

And IMO it's receiving mailers like those that lead some parents to believe their sons have been "led on" by a school.

Do they so quickly believe that they've "already won" when the Publisher's Clearing House envelope arrives?

Orlando
If you are really NOT in the running you can't win. It is the player who is being taught that it is ok to deceive if your a college coach raising money. I am not as concerned for the parents.

I believe that the player and his family also have a responsibility to vet the schools issuing the invitations --- checking the roster and stats will help tell if that school would be recruiting the position involved, for example. Knowing any players that have been signed by that school through travel team or showcase experience would give an idea of the talent level that school looks for. Then an honest assessment of how the player might fit is required.

This is in addition to knowing if the student has the academic credentials to be admitted to the school.

Invitations to college camps often come from the contact information the coaches pick up at showcases, as that's an audience that has already paid to have the player seen.

Like any other purchase, there's a serious element of caveat emptor.

A hs player is moving into the transition to adulthood. Learning to read what is said or not said by a college coach is a life lesson he'll need through this process, and he'll need his parents' guidance to learn it.

Orlando


Caveat emptor is appropriate in the business world. All your comments do not address the fact that the behavior on the part of the coaches who intentionally mislead in order to fill their camps is flat out wrong.

Not having seen the particular invitations you're referring to, I can't address the way they were worded. I was answering for the general information of people in a similiar position as you found yourself, and out of respect for your legitimate question.

With respect, a coach paying for a baseball program is part of the business world.

[QUOTE Caveat emptor is appropriate in the business world. All your comments do not address the fact that the behavior on the part of the coaches who intentionally mislead in order to fill their camps is flat out wrong.[/QUOTE]

Colleges throughout the US accept thousands of applications and fees but only 10%-30% of the applicants. It is likely a significant percentage of those applying have no chance of being accepted. I am not sure this is different than prospect camps. It is always disappointing when we get negative news but I fail to follow how that gets to the point of being "intentionally misleading." Stanford now accepts around 300 players for their prospect camp and everyone there knows that probably less than 10 are prospects. Camp fills by December of every year with a waiting list. I don't think there is anything "intentionally misleading."
I agree with Orlando. Maybe you have a specific situation that is compelling. College recruiting is filled with uncertainly and disappointments but I still think it to be a leap to believe there is an "intent to mislead" involved.

jbddad

In order for the coach to be intentionally misleading these players he would have to KNOW the player was not worthy of his program BEFORE he sent the invite.

I guess I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that the coach knew BEFORE seeing them at camp that they could not possibly be worth recruiting?

Their mailing lists may simply be derived from lists of local players.

Without reading the letter it's hard to say if there is INTENT to deceive or simply good marketing skills at work.

There is a world of difference. Although I've seen enough TV to know that all you have to do is wear the right deoderant and the women will be falling all over you. (Though pesonally I can't imagine any woman intentionally smelling a guys sweaty arm pits)

If you read a typical camp brochure or invitation I don't think you're going to find any type of recruitment guarantees . The problem is that this is a very emotional time for a player and his family. Baseball recruiting is not something a parent is trained for! When you see your son looking at an unknown baseball future, you tend to start seeing more than what is actually written! That's what this board was created to do, help parents with the recruiting process and why many posters stick around after the fact to pass on what they've learned!

RHP05Parent - I agree totally. This is a very emotional time for both parents and players (on many levels, but for now let's focus on baseball)... Schools are jockeying for the best players and players are jockeying for the best schools. In our experience (as the Mom of a sophomore in college)this site was invaluable in helping to determine what the right questions were that we needed to ask to help my son make the best decision for him. Time will tell as to whether it was the best path.

jbdad, I see your gripe and you've come to the right place to get some opinions

IMO - "What we've got here is failure to communicate"spit

it's pretty simple really,

"prospect camps" invite prospects, ie - "prospective student atheletes",

by NCAA definition - Prospective student-athlete -
You become a “prospective student-athlete” when:• You start ninth-grade classes
(note, no mention of 60 yd times, arm strength, etc)

hope that helps


it's a win/win situation anyway - you're getting INSTRUCTION & EXPOSURE



ps - the RIDE often spoken of is that from PROSPECTIVE S-A, to RECRUITED S-A, to S-A

good luck

Ok, Here are examples of what I consider "intentionally misleading",

A coach attends a weekend tournament and invites ALL the players from the 4 teams he saw play to his prospect camp so he "can see you one more time before they give scholarship offers". Could all the players on all 4 teams really be DI prospects? Also, the wording makes it sound like the coach has been tracking every player.


A coach invites 10 second basemen to his elite prospect camp who are being "specifically recruited". It turns out he was not even recruiting a second baseman. Intentionally misleading????

Orlando, I realize both parents and players have to be realistic and do their homework. Your comments completely ignore the responsibility of coaches to also do their homework and take pride in being upfront and honest throughout the process. The purpose of this topic was not to imply that this behavior is the general rule but rather the exception to the rule. Enough said.

I tend to agree with JBDDad. Are college educators or just businesses? Showcases are, of course, a different matter. That's a business. On a related topic, there was an outcry several years ago (and maybe still exists) whre high school students would receive invitations to apply to colleges just pulled from lists, but the admissions offices had nothing to do with it.

Colleges are educators and businesses. The Athletic Departement is made up of coaches...and is a business. Both will have Business Offices, have to cover expenses, collect fees, operate within a budget, etc.

College coaches aren't "educators" in the classroom sense; they are retained or let go based on expected results on the field.

If you feel that strongly that you have been deceived, perhaps you have been. There are honest coaches and liars, good guys and jerks, workers and slackers in their ranks just as there are everywhere else.

As I said before, I was answering for any reader of the thread that might be feeling a similiar way you are. I believe that a lot of us who have already gone through the process, looking back, would admit we put too much credence in a letter or something said by a coach and at times heard what we wanted to hear. Threads like this one can help families going through the process to be aware of those bumps in the road.

From the coach's side, he has to find student athletes that will be able to play to the standard of his team, remain academically eligible, fit from a personal standpoint, and either be able to afford the school or not be a disproportionate drain on the scholarship money the coach has available. That's a lot of qualifications to determine before a player would even be invited to a showcase and I know I'm willing to bet there isn't a college coach in the country who vets before issuing camp invitations.

As infielddad pointed out, a limited number of students are accepted to any given college; the coach has to find athletes within the acceptable student ranks who will fit with his program. That's a lot of fishing.

Trying to see it from the coach's side, he might have invited all four teams because he saw a couple of players that might be interesting. Inviting only those couple of players would be sending a strong message and as he doesn't know about academics, personalities, or finances, he doesn't want to send that strong a message, so he went for the saturation bombing method.

If he wasn't looking for a 2nd baseman, was he looking for a ss? MIs are MIs, and although IMO more ss are converted to 2B than the converse, it's still a distinct possibility. There's a lot of position-changing in college.

Equally, he might have had a whole lot of empty spots at his camp and needed to fill it. I'm not defending this or any coach, I'm just sharing experiences here and hoping that families going through the recruitment process will be aware of what's going on with the other side of the table and the other end of the phone.

Coaches who have camps are selling instruction and experience at a camp....not tickets to a place on his team, let alone a scholarship.

Or in other words, if you had no real interest in the school before you got the letter - throw it in the garbage and save yourself a couple of bucks.

Assuming there is intruction at camps, the players attending camps may be interested just in the educational and developmental aspect of the camp.......my son, when in HS, attended camps at two schools with no intention of being 'seen' as a recruit, but simply to try to learn.

My advice would be to look at these things as a way to improve skills and knowledge of the game, rather than a chance to market the players.

When I work at camps such as this, my priority is to teach skills, and I make sure I get some immediate feedback acknowledging the fact that there is an understanding of the newly obtained knowledge.

It seems that not only is there more than one reason that colleges hold this type of 'camp', but there is also more than one reason that kids attend these events.

One could turn the tables on this and say that it is deceitful to attend a camp pretending to have the desire to improve in ability, when the real reason is for marketing purposes.

Am I off base with that suggestion?

Grateful, I do believe you are off base with your suggestion. The real life examples I used dealt with letters primarily directed at H.S. juniors going into their senior years this fall. So, lets be real,they want to get recruited. Improving skills is important but not the reason you attend "prospect" camps in the fall of your senior year. Coaches are well aware of this. Why don't the coaches simply say the camp is an instructional camp like many do. Reread my examples. Remember the posters on this site are well informed. I have had parents less informed who told me how excited their boys were to be on a colleges short list only to find out that everyone was on the short list. There has to be a better way.

Orlando, As you said originally"the deception is in the wording" Exactly my point.

I can see it now, the truly non-misleading letter.

"I need to raise money for our program. I am holding a camp for this purpose.

To be truthful, I probably won't recruit you if you attend, but occassionally a talented player comes along and I do.

You can either come to the camp or just send money. Either way works for me."

Knowledge is Power! Whether it be from this website, experience, asking good questions or whatever, you need to educate yourself about the whole recruiting process. While still confusing, it will save you alot of time, money and energy. If you have not heard from a college except for a camp brochure, they are not going to offer you a scholarship when you come to their camp. If you are a good player and interested in that school, camps are a great tool for getting noticed and meeting the coach. Call the coach and ask questions...are you interested in my son as a possible recruit? While brochures may be misleading, a conversation will be enlightening. Check their website and see who they have returning and/or have signed intent letters (after Nov.)Just learn everything you possible can about this whole recruiting ordeal and it can became exciting instead of stressful.

Here is an example from a newspaper bulletin board.:
BASEBALL: The University at Buffalo will host a showcase camp for prospects on Oct. 2. High school juniors and seniors looking to gain exposure to college coaches are invited to work out and get evaluated by coaches. The camp will be held 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. at Amherst Audubon Field, adjacent to the Pepsi Center. The fee is $75. Call Ron Torgalski at 645-6834

quote:

Originally posted by jbddad:
Without naming schools, it is somewhat offensive to see that some colleges send misleading invitations to high school players to attend their "prospect" or "recruiting" camps. ...........The problem is that many players and parents are not well informed and end up spending the money to send their sons to these camps thinking the colleges are really interested in them. ..... Shouldn't they be more selective as to who they invite? Please don't tell me that "you never know what may catch their eye".

jbdad,

I hear your plight, yet respectfully have a different view point.

a. A few years back the NCAA has strict guidelines forbidding 'selective' invites to camps on D1 campuses.

b. It makes sense if your child thinks he may want to attend that specific college.

c. Not well informed? - Maybe
Leading on the camper? - Debatable
Offensive? - Disagree
Misleading Invitation? - Disagree
False expectations? - Disagree
Financial Cost? - Agree
Emotional Cost? - Debatable

d. Camps on College Campuses for prospective HS student-athletes was one of the better ideas approved by the NCAA, (after many years of being in violation.)

I believe a HS student attending a camp at a college where he has interests in obtaining a four year degree is beneficial for the HS student than the coaches.

Regards
Bear

quote:

Originally posted by Bear:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by AParent:
I can see it now, the truly non-misleading letter.

"I need to raise money for our program. I am holding a camp for this purpose.

To be truthful, I probably won't recruit you if you attend, but occassionally a talented player comes along and I do.

You can either come to the camp or just send money. Either way works for me."

AP: lol

After decades of directing Baseball Tourney's, here are similar (yet not misleading) rousing thoughts:

- I am holding a showcase... for your child, (not me).

- I do not need to raise money for the events.
(My credit is my real job.)

- I want to recruit your son to play
(and occassionally a talented player comes along.)

- Kid has talent
(yet is a Non-Qual to be admitted to that four year college.)

- Please don't send small bills.
(very very large paper only please.)

----------------------------------------

and in the near mortal words of SNL:

"I am Bear,
(and your not)."

Regards
Bear

quote:

A few years back the NCAA has strict guidelines forbidding 'selective' invites to camps on D1 campuses.

Bear, could you expound on that please?

Thanks,
Fungo

I think it was Orlando who posted:

quote:

Do they so quickly believe that they've "already won" when the Publisher's Clearing House envelope arrives?

Though there are some people out there who might, most of us are skeptical when it comes to everyday marketing material and will read the fine print. But when it comes to camp solicitations, recruiting letters, etc. where is that same skepticism? College baseball is a business and businesses use marketing techniques to find customers. It is standard MO. But because this is an emotional time for us parents, there is a tendency to see more than what is actually there. I think that's all we're trying to say here. This camp invitation may have been no more deceptive than a typical TV commercial that promises instant popularity if you use their product. It doesn't make it right or easier to take, but that's what we are here on the board to hopefully explain.

by rhparent
"But because this is an emotional time for us parents, there is a tendency to see more than what is actually there . . . . . . . but that's what we are here on the board"



great summary, be sure to pass along the info you find here to parents in your circle who don't visit this board