MLB or College?

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
What happened to the kid who passed up 2.5? is he in college now?
Maybe he just wasn't ready for life in the minors? Maybe he just wanted the college baseball experience?

There have been players who took the money, hated the life style and left pro ball. They lose the money and the chance to play college ball.


There is more to consider than money

He is at Vanderbilt. He is from Massachusetts. Drafted in round 1 by Toronto

quote:

Originally posted by Mark B:

quote:

Originally posted by njbb:
What happened to the kid who passed up 2.5? is he in college now?
Maybe he just wasn't ready for life in the minors? Maybe he just wanted the college baseball experience?

There have been players who took the money, hated the life style and left pro ball. They lose the money and the chance to play college ball.


There is more to consider than money

He is at Vanderbilt. He is from Massachusetts. Drafted in round 1 by Toronto

I didn't want to make the kid so recognizable his name could be identified since I questioned his decision in public. It's not fair to the kid to be outed. I PM'ed njbb who it is. We try to have discussion and debate on this board without outing minors.

My son's dream is to get drafted.

He would take any draft pick over playing in college, and I would support his decision.

Give him a can of Coke, a candy bar and a fair chance to prove himself and he'll be the first one to sign!

There are also cases of guys turning down money out of HS, improving their stock in college, and doing better out of college. Examples from 2011 include Danny Hultzen and Gerritt Cole.

Again, it's a tough decision, but the answer to the question depends on each individual guy. Also, there are risks no matter which way you go, so unless you have a crystal ball, there's no way to guarantee you made the "right" choice until it's all over and done with.

dw8mann,
I've known a few like that. Neither was a great student in their cases. That may not apply to your son. One of them was a third rounder and he's doing fairly well. He would have gone for free. The other was a 40th or later rounder who got a bus ticket. He's out of the game. One kid from my son's JC team was signed by Cleveland as an undrafted free agent and turned down a full ride from a school in Colorado. He had a good season in rookie ball then was injured and released the next season.

quote:

Originally posted by dw8man:
He would take any draft pick over playing in college, and I would support his decision.

He only says that because he doesn't know any better. College ball on any level is 100% better than the lowest beginner level of milb.

As discussed much depends on many things, one being if your son is a very early pick vs a very late pick.

Never indicate to a scout what you have indicated here.

Most very low HS draft picks end up in complex ball. That's all about getting up at 6am to be ready to play a game (which no one comes to) at 11, which is not played at a stadium with people watching, but on the practice field (think back fields at spring training complexes. Done by 2 or 3 and the whole day in front of him. Maybe, depending on whether a team has an A rookie or not, that's where he will spend his first season.
Be careful what you wish for.

Some history:

Several years ago - I was in attendance at a Perfect Game event in Florida and was approached by Mr.Jerry Ford.

He very politely introduced himself and then proceeded to compliment me on my sunflower seed spitting abilities. No less than 10 minutes into the conversation - he asked me if I would be interested in becoming the Perfect Game Official Seed Spitting representative.

The benefits were many - but the bottom line was the amount of money that was on the table.

He offered me 2.87 million, an unlimited supply of seeds and free dental insurance for life.

At that time- I thought I could do better - as I was already in discussions with David's. So I declined the offer.

One week later I visited David's headquarters to begin negotiations. They offered me the chance to exit their property and be free from arrest and prosecution - but only if I was able to elude their security personnel and remove myself from their premises in 2 minutes or less. Of course - I accepted their offer - ran real fast - and was able to get out of there without incident.

The next day I went back to Mr. Ford and told him I was ready to accept his offer. He - once again - was very polite. However he stated that he had changed his mind and now had a revised offer for me.

The offer was a bag of donuts and 1 beer.

Here is the moral of the story:

If someone offers you $2.5 million or more for something that is not illegal and which presents no moral conflicts - take the dough.

Sometimes - you only get one shot at it.

Just ask Matt Harrington if he should have taken the 4.5 million he turned down the first of six times he was drafted. When last heard of, he was stocking shelves in a Target while trying to make a comeback in Indy ball. Of course each time he was drafted, it was for substantially less than the time before.

We may be the wrong people to decide if one should take the money or go to college since many of our regular poster's ideas of success are skewed towards a college education. A couple of years ago I read where there were only 28 major leaguers playing that year who had a four year college degree, with one example being Curtis Granderson. I would guess that there is not one foreign ML player that has a college degree as well as no high school draftees. Some may get an education later. So in truth it is extremely hard and in the minority to be able to do both things before a ML career is over.

quote:

We may be the wrong people to decide if one should take the money or go to college since many of our regular poster's ideas of success are skewed towards a college education.

I've always been education first. But if my son turned down 2.5M I'd tell him he's too stupid to go to college.

(just my personal opinion)

Excluding those born with a silver spoon and $2,5M is no big deal, I don't know how an 18 yr old kid can turn down that kind of loot since it isn't every day someone gets to start out in life as a millionaire and can go back to school any time after their career. And since a $2.5M signing bonus is a large investment in an umnproven talent, but a bonus baby nonetheless, it would stand to reason a team is going to give a player more chances to succeed to make it to the majors, that's more the reason to take that kind of loot out of HS.

One would hope, the kid has parents who see their kids fortune as something they should help him protect and invest so that he at least he still has his loot opposed to leaching off his millions and blowing the loot.

This conversation has gone way off track from the original question.

For example, Harrington is irrelevant to this conversation because his choice was not between pro and college. Once he had an agent, his choice was take the best deal he could get or leave it. He left it . . . again and again and again.

For another example, all this talk of leaving million dollar bonuses on the table borders on the ridiculous. There are one or two or three players a year who do this. In nearly every case, they are well advised, and they make informed decisions knowing the risks and rewards--and more important, they have put a value on what they would be giving up. If you're in the category of player that needs to worry about this contingency, you have better sources of advice than public discussion boards.

For everyone else, the hard facts are that 1) the million dollar bonuses only go to about 50 players per year, and they taper off quickly from there; 2) your bonus is the only chance you have to make real money in baseball unless you make it to the majors, which becomes less likely with every round that passes before your name is called; 3) comparatively few signees take full advantage of the MLB scholarship program either because they weren't offered it in the first place, its value eroded, or life intruded and prevented them from going back to school; and 4) each year, a new group of signees comes in to force out everyone from your draft who isn't advancing fast enough.

If your goal is to keep playing as long as you can, going to college is almost always your best bet.

If your goal is to give baseball your best shot while keeping your non-baseball life on track, going to college is almost always your best bet.

Obviously, this assumes you have a viable college option. If not, go ahead and sign for the candy bar and the coke (though that's not the kind of nutrition that will get you where you want to go).

Finally, if we're going to compare anecdotes, for every one player who turned down big bucks out of high school and lived to regret it, I'd bet our readers could find ten guys who signed out of high school and were out of baseball with negligible savings or MLB scholarship money available before their college eligibility would have ended.

MLB or College? No its College or MILB. Its an individual decision that varies greatly from one kid to the next. Each situation is different. If the decision was indeed MLB or College that would be an entirely different scenario.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by dw8man:
He would take any draft pick over playing in college, and I would support his decision.

He only says that because he doesn't know any better. College ball on any level is 100% better than the lowest beginner level of milb.

As discussed much depends on many things, one being if your son is a very early pick vs a very late pick.

Never indicate to a scout what you have indicated here.

TPM,

Your experience and advice are always greatly appreciated especially on this topic.

I don't know if I have the capabilities to express in writing his mindset but there is a big difference in his eyes between playing in college and getting a chance to go pro. His is a current JUCO player and does really enjoy it. However, he has stated two goals: 1. get drafted 2. have the oportunity to play at a 4 year school on scholarship. His desire and mindset is he would rather get a shot to play pro. He knows of the hardships and odds but, for him, just getting the shot matters.

He knows he'll always will have the oppurtuinty to get his college degree even it if takes a bit longer then "normal", or even if it is after a time of service to his country (which he considers option 3 if 1 and 2 don't work out above). He also realizes if he is considered draftable (which I am not saying he is) it will only be for a short time so he would want to give it a try.

Now, for a reality check, as far as I know, he is not on anyone's radar so we are talking REALLY hypothetical. If he is ever presented with a real chance to have to deside between colleage or draft, things could change and all the information provided here will come into play.

Now, the advice about not saying what I said in my first post to a scout is very true and he wouldn't even consider doing that. While the money would be important to him and he would do his best to get as much as he feels he could, the chance for him would mean the most.

I hope that doesn't sound to naive but when answering the question "college or MLB", he wouldn't hesitate to say MLB.

Swampboy,

You missed the whole point of my mention of Matt Harrington. He had the same choice of everyone else out of high school--college or the minor leagues, but because he figured to be one of the top picks he threw any thoughts of college aside. Due to bad advice, maybe some greed on the part of his parents and agent he refused to sign for an amount, that was life changing money by anyone's standards. Therefore when someone makes the original poster's choice of decisions, they need to follow it through. While I agree he is a rare case, you can bet there have been numerous wrong decisions made in each direction. The parameters of this discussion is not limited as far as I know only to those whose are signing for minimal amounts.

All in all this discussion is like a lot of those on this forum--there is no one right answer. It's up to the individual and their particular circumstances. But just for fun we can discuss it all we want.

3-bagger,
Sorry if I misunderstood. If your point was that, once you make a decision, you need to follow through, then I would definitely agree.
Best wishes.

Very few of our sons experience this issue.
To me, this question might be properly positioned by listening to "9," the head coach at Stanford discuss the importance of a college education/degree, and hearing a scout/GM present the value of a signing bonus.
Someplace in this discussion is the "dream" and $$$$.
Someplace in this discussion is the hard reality of Milb. Someplace in this discussion is the value of a college degree, whether obtained by a baseball scholarship as contrasted with getting there through the MLB scholarship program.
To me, the continuing value of a thread like this one is to educate.
At some point, the "dream" becomes hard reality and the end of baseball for 99% of those drafted, whether they are drafted from HS or college.
To me, the value is to be fully informed on the options and choices and risks. There are no "guarantees" with the college choice, as many other threads on this site clearly demonstrate.
There are no "guarantees" with Milb even with $2,500,000, less taxes and agent paid.
Knowledge and information is a major key for each player and family to make choices so they might try and decide and negotiate from their choice and point of reference.

Just in case people don't know about Harrington

How does anyone in their right mind turn this down?

2000- The Rockies' final offer was $4 million and a guaranteed major league callup by the end of 2002. Isn't getting called up what it's all about? Granted it would probably be September with no guarantee of playing, but most players don't get this offer.

Harrington was Tanzer's first representation of a draft pick. He asked for 25% more than Jeff Hamilton signed for the previous year.

More detail from ESPN OTL

dw8man,
I meant never tell a scout that your son would play for a coke and a candy bar.
I didn't know that your son is older and able to make his own decision, with some college under his belt, the decision becomes much easier. I was refering to those out of HS.
I agree this is all about a personal decision, however, as pointed out on several occassions, the title leaves me personally to advise college after HS.
Matt Harrington is a perfect example of someone I think had very bad advice and greedy people making choices for him.
This is always a good discussion, however reality is that for most of our sons who will not get that type of money, make sure that the decision made is for the right reason, so that when you look back you are sure you made the right answer.

quote:

Originally posted by infielddad:
Very few of our sons experience this issue.
To me, this question might be properly positioned by listening to "9," the head coach at Stanford discuss the importance of a college education/degree, and hearing a scout/GM present the value of a signing bonus.
Someplace in this discussion is the "dream" and $$$$.
Someplace in this discussion is the hard reality of Milb. Someplace in this discussion is the value of a college degree, whether obtained by a baseball scholarship as contrasted with getting there through the MLB scholarship program.
To me, the continuing value of a thread like this one is to educate.
At some point, the "dream" becomes hard reality and the end of baseball for 99% of those drafted, whether they are drafted from HS or college.
To me, the value is to be fully informed on the options and choices and risks. There are no "guarantees" with the college choice, as many other threads on this site clearly demonstrate.
There are no "guarantees" with Milb even with $2,500,000, less taxes and agent paid.
Knowledge and information is a major key for each player and family to make choices so they might try and decide and negotiate from their choice and point of reference.

Great post. It was mentioned earlier that this thread had gone off topic, but not really. Infielddad makes a great point “the continuing value of a thread like this one is to educate”. Well said. Like I mentioned in my OP, this topic came up at work with some folks that had former baseball experience. I was not all that prepared or educated for the conversation, but in the end I learned a lot. As many have stated here, it is a personal choice for the player and the family involved. The better educated you can be on the subject is only going to help if the opportunity ever presents itself. Forums and threads like this help make those personal choices. Oh, the title of the thread is how it was asked of me/discussed at work… but yes, it should read MiLB or College. I could change or edit the title but “Someplace in this discussion is the “dream”. “

quote:

Originally posted by Swampboy

From a dad's perspective, the purpose of baseball is to keep young men who don't like to sit still in school until they realize the baseball dream isn't going to come true.

Well said Swampboy. Number one son will never have to make this decision, but one thing for sure. He is getting a mostly free education, matured, became a good student, and most of all has made good friends in college. He's climbed the ladder from JUCO to D1 and no debts to date. He is preparing himself for life after baseball.

Someone stated that the first rounders out of HS that go on to college usually remain a top pick. They have a valid point, barring injury, the scouts will continue to track them. In other words, they have "options".

Son has had three ex-teammates go pro, one was a 1st rounder out of HS, the other a college junior(mid round), and the other a college sophomore(late round). In my opinion they made good decisions for their situation at the time.

I know this topic has come up, but the information sharing is priceless. I have to admit I got a chuckle out of TR's statement too. We learn a lot as parents on this site, from HS to College, to MILB. I just wish I had found this site a few years sooner.