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2022NYC posted:

Watching the Yanks win with their AAA roster is a bit ho hum now. I hope the Mets go on a run and get back into the playoff mix.

Agreed, but that bullpen.  Yikes!  Speaking of lousy bullpens, the Nats are in the thick of things and it looked like the only folks who came out for the Mets series was Mets fans.

RJM posted:

The Indians and A’s are leading the Rays for the two AL wildcard spots. But does anyone in Tampa care? If so, they might draw 15,000.

Rays fan here.  The truth hurts, but can you let me just enjoy a playoff run?  (And the Rays are #1 in the wild card standings as of today!)  I'll be at the Trop this weekend for the Jays game. 

And how about a team contending while posting THE lowest total payroll in MLB?  Just over 25% of Boston's, and the Rays will finish ahead of the Red Sox.  

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I didn't realize how many teams were completely out of the race until now. Half the third place teams are sub .500 and never had a chance. The Tigers are going to crawl to a 45 win season. It's embarrassing. When your team is virtually eliminated at the end of June how do you convince people to come spend money and watch them play another sub .500 team?

Brewers no bueno.

They do have a 4 game series vs the Cubs and then a relatively easy September schedule, but it doesn't look like they have enough pitching.  On top of that their star rookie Keston Hiura is out with injury, Moustakas is banged up, Cain is trying to play through injury, Travis Shaw has tried to play through a wrist injury all year, and even Yelich despite putting up MVP numbers has a back issue that prevents him from taking pregame BP

Just doesn't seem to be their year.  Take 3 of 4 from the Cubs & sweep Miami in 4 games and I might sing a different tune a week from now...

from a fan standpoint, if my Brewers are out of it I'd enjoy watching an Astros-Braves series.  Lots of fun, compelling players to watch on those teams.

Chico Escuela posted:
RJM posted:

The Indians and A’s are leading the Rays for the two AL wildcard spots. But does anyone in Tampa care? If so, they might draw 15,000.

Rays fan here.  The truth hurts, but can you let me just enjoy a playoff run?  (And the Rays are #1 in the wild card standings as of today!)  I'll be at the Trop this weekend for the Jays game. 

And how about a team contending while posting THE lowest total payroll in MLB?  Just over 25% of Boston's, and the Rays will finish ahead of the Red Sox.  

The Rays are good at selecting and developing pitchers. Kevin Cash is a very good manager. But on a year to year basis I’ll take the Sox.

If the Rays had the interest level the Sox have they would have the money. The money comes primarily from the tv and radio contracts and attendance. The Sox know they’re going to draw 2.8 to 3M every year. All the peripheral places money comes from the Sox also do well. 

Don’t claim it’s market size. The population of central and northern Florida exceeds the population of New England.

Last edited by RJM

Currently going through Step 9 (Apology) of my Red Sox not making the playoffs in a 12-Step program.  Looking forward to the day when I can enjoy baseball for baseball's sake.  I'm letting go and trying to forgive Dombrowski, but any true New Englander holds grudges for a long, long time.  ;-)  

The Astros and Dodgers are looking pretty darn good on paper this year, and definitely the front runners.  Somebody is going to get hot and challenge them.  Nationals, Braves and Twins are hot right now, and really looking forward to the playoffs...love to see the Nationals finally do something in the post season.

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Fenway's post is why I don't watch sports all that much any more....4 titles in 15 years and we're not happy.  I did the same with my UCONN basketball team.  As a fan, you end the season disappointed at such a high % of the time, and when they win, we get greedy and want it every year.  It's painful...unless you're a Patriots fan (I'm not)

I don’t see it as Dombrowski’s fault. How was he to know Sale and Price would have arm problems all year? That Porcello would go from 17-7 to one of the worst pitchers in baseball? Only Eovaldi’s arm problems were possibly avoidable by not signing him.

Given where the Sox were up against the luxury tax I was on board with the plan of a mid season acquisition of a closer. But the starting rotation’s failures smoked the bullpen with overuse.

As it turns out the Sox found a closer in Workman. The big issue is what do they do about their starting rotation. As I see it they have one reliable starter in Rodriguez. I figure Eovaldi returns to form next year. Price is a year older with arm problems in back to back seasons. I’m betting Sale misses next year. Hopefully Cashner can be a .500 innings eater in the back of the rotation. Porcello is gone unless he’s back cheap for one year. 

I believe the Sox paid the price for what it took to win last year using starters also out of the bullpen. But you take the risk every time you’re close.

Heres some irony for you. Seven months ago fans were wondering if the Celtics and Bruins could pull off the Boston Slam after the Sox and Patriots won.

If Brady gets injured and the Patriots go out of the playoffs in the first round Boston teams will have completed the Boston Nightmare Slam ... Egos destroyed Celtics. The Bruins lost game seven. A loaded Sox roster with a perceived solid starting rotation bombed out of the fate. Boston is one team away from the Nightmare Slam.

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3and2Fastball posted:

Yeah, poor suffering Red Sox fans.  Try rooting for a team that has never won a World Series and then come back to me with your tears (!)

(I suppose that is what it is like rooting for the Vikings against my Packers)

I spent decades listening to Yankee fans chant “1918.” No Red Sox loss will ever top the Bucky Bleeping Dent game unless it’s the Aaron Bleeping Boone game. Oh wait a minute! How about Mookie Wilson using Bill Buckner for a croquet wicket? 

What’s occurred over the past fifteen years falls under “good things come to those who wait.” If You think Sox fans are arrogant we learned from the best, “Yankee fans.”

If you want to discuss some serious “suck” how about the Patriots before they were purchased by Robert Kraft? As a kid I marveled at how easy it was to sneak into Patriots games. When I got older I realized they probably wanted us there filling seats. 

RJM posted:
Chico Escuela posted:
RJM posted:

The Indians and A’s are leading the Rays for the two AL wildcard spots. But does anyone in Tampa care? If so, they might draw 15,000.

Rays fan here.  The truth hurts, but can you let me just enjoy a playoff run?  (And the Rays are #1 in the wild card standings as of today!)  I'll be at the Trop this weekend for the Jays game. 

And how about a team contending while posting THE lowest total payroll in MLB?  Just over 25% of Boston's, and the Rays will finish ahead of the Red Sox.  

The Rays are good at selecting and developing pitchers. Kevin Cash is a very good manager. But on a year to year basis I’ll take the Sox.

If the Rays had the interest level the Sox have they would have the money. The money comes primarily from the tv and radio contracts and attendance. The Sox know they’re going to draw 2.8 to 3M every year. All the peripheral places money comes from the Sox also do well. 

Don’t claim it’s market size. The population of central and northern Florida exceeds the population of New England.

No question Red Sox Nation supports the team.  And with a payroll almost 4x the Rays', the Red Sox ought to outperform them over the longer term.  (I have no quarrel with teams whose owners are willing to spend--good on the Red Sox.) 

Florida cities' relationship with MLB is troubled across the board.  I can offer only one primary defense (rationalization?): 

You referred above to "Tampa" in connection with the Rays.  Many folks forget that the team actually plays in St. Petersburg--they are the Tampa Bay rays, the bay being a body of water that Tampa, St. P and several other communities border.  Why does that matter?  There are just over 3M people in the Tampa metro area.  But St. Pete is on a peninsula that is home to maybe 300 to 350,000 of those folks.  The other 2.5+ million (as well as the throngs to the east in central Florida) can only access the peninsula via a few bridges that at rush hour are terrible bottlenecks.  St. Petersburg is a great town--but it was a bad place to put an MLB stadium.  As I said, Florida has a... complicated relationship with major league baseball.  But if the Rays played on the Tampa side of the bay, they'd have better attendance.  (A new stadium would help, too.)  I'm not confident attendance would improve enough, but it would improve.

P.S.  -- Boston metro population is 4.6M vs. 3.06M for Tampa -- a full third larger.  So there's another rationalization in defense of the Rays. 

I don't call Red Sox fans arrogant.  I respect the passion.  Reminds me of Packers fans.  The Packers are a religion in Wisconsin.

I'm just saying I don't have sympathy for Red Sox fans when the Red Sox lose.  The Brewers have never won a World Series.  The Wild Card pennant hanging in Miller Park is a flat out embarrassment. 

3and2Fastball posted:

I don't call Red Sox fans arrogant.  I respect the passion.  Reminds me of Packers fans.  The Packers are a religion in Wisconsin.

I'm just saying I don't have sympathy for Red Sox fans when the Red Sox lose.  The Brewers have never won a World Series.  The Wild Card pennant hanging in Miller Park is a flat out embarrassment. 

My only real issue with Red Sox fans in 2019 is that they still want to play the woebegone underdogs card, especially when comparing their team to the Yankees.  You've won four World Series in 15 years and have the largest payroll in baseball.  That's a great thing for the fan base.  But complaining about your years wandering in the wilderness don't really evoke any sympathy from me.  It's like Yankees' fans crying in their beer because their team hasn't won a World Series since 2009... 

Boston metro population is 4.6M vs. 3.06M for Tampa -- a full third larger.  So there's another rationalization in defense of the Rays

There are over 14M people in central and northern Florida. There are under 14M in New England when excluding Fairfield County CT (suburb of NYC). If Tampa can’t compete with the Braves and Marlins (two other weak baseball markets who also don’t sell out playoff games) in their own backyard it’s their own fault. Or the fans aren’t interested. 

Last edited by RJM
RJM posted:

Boston metro population is 4.6M vs. 3.06M for Tampa -- a full third larger.  So there's another rationalization in defense of the Rays

There are over 14M people in central and northern Florida. There are under 14M in New England when excluding Fairfield County CT (suburb of NYC). If Tampa can’t compete with the Braves and Marlins (two other weak baseball markets who also don’t sell out playoff games) in their own backyard it’s their own fault. Or the fans aren’t interested. 

I could try to argue with you about travel times for those populations to get to games... but my heart wouldn't really be in it (and honestly I'm not sure what the data would show).  The Rays will be leaving St. Pete within a few years for sure (the Trop lease runs through 2027, as I recall, though I doubt they stay that long), and probably leaving the state.  Charlotte, Raleigh or Nashville would be interesting spots.  Or MLB could go back to Montreal.  

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