MLB Pennant Races

RJM - you may be tired of it but the idea that we are ever going back to a place where we can even simply disagree about what to do about anything is quickly becoming a relic of the past.  Hell we can't even agree on the facts anymore.

For example a hurricane is no longer just a hurricane - it is now - one of the most powerful storms in history due to global warming and that is all the fault of (insert any guilty party here).  They should be destroyed/put out of business/fired and then tarred and feathered. 

Far worse is now the "facts" are lies and you have to sift through and look for the truth.  An example of this is Trump/Gabbard/Stein are Russian assets.  Fully proven hogwash but about 1/2 the country is buying it.

More people need to voice your point of view and be willing to stand up and say ENOUGH to stop it - I'm with you.

Our country's future may depend upon it..

RJM posted:

I’m not making Taubman a poster child for anything. We don’t know if there’s anything else. So we have to assume not. I’m tired of the “I’m offended by words, hung the sucker” movement. Sure, he was wrong. What he said was offensive. Find an appropriate punishment short of firing. 

Who gets to decide how much women in the workplace are supposed to endure, or how much abuse men can engage in before firing becomes "appropriate"?  The law moved to a different place than you are advocating quite a few years ago. 

From the accounts I read, Taubman did a lot more than make an off-color remark; he was in others' faces and shouting.  If he had tried to do the same thing to a man, he'd have been at risk of getting punched.  But of course, guys like that generally prefer to single out people who aren't going to fight back--often that means they target women. 

You're entitled to your opinion. We're getting pretty far into non-baseball topics here, so I'm signing off.  

luv baseball posted:

RJM - you may be tired of it but the idea that we are ever going back to a place where we can even simply disagree about what to do about anything is quickly becoming a relic of the past.  Hell we can't even agree on the facts anymore.

For example a hurricane is no longer just a hurricane - it is now - one of the most powerful storms in history due to global warming and that is all the fault of (insert any guilty party here).  They should be destroyed/put out of business/fired and then tarred and feathered. 

Far worse is now the "facts" are lies and you have to sift through and look for the truth.  An example of this is Trump/Gabbard/Stein are Russian assets.  Fully proven hogwash but about 1/2 the country is buying it.

More people need to voice your point of view and be willing to stand up and say ENOUGH to stop it - I'm with you.

Our country's future may depend upon it..

Can we stick with baseball?  I'm guilty of straying beyond that subject here, too--I should have known better.  I value the discussions here very much, and value the chance to NOT talk about politics.  

@RJM - The bottom line is he is a high level executive at a public, media facing organization.  What he said was unnecessary and put his employer in a highly unfavorable position.  When you do that, if the stakes are high enough, you get fired.  Pretty open/shut, and IMO not reflective of anything more societally macro than that.  

@luvbaseball - I won't get into the Trump/Gabbard/Stein comment, as that's clearly coming from a hyper partisan perspective.  However, Hurricanes and climate change actually aren't.  That's as fact based as you can get (other than doctoring a map).  I have a close friend who runs an insurance business for high net worth clients, and he basically goes around the country assessing damage done by climate change.  His data, his words, and ultimately the money of his clients.  All very straight forward and apolitical, so simply suggesting you use a better example next time in trying to prove your point.  

In the words of Forrest Gump, that's all I have to say about that.  Back to baseball.  

RJM posted:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10...taubman-fired-astros

The Astros just fired Taubman. He obviously did something wrong. But I’m tired of people being fired for every politically incorrect thing they do. We’ve become a society that‘s turned getting offended into an art. Even though I’m a right leaning libertarian I was against forcing Al Franken to resign.

Unless there’s a track record the best solution is make the person grovel in public for an apology. Then make them do some kind of community service until they get it.

Thwre are too many males being tossed out of colleges without due process due to zero tolerance after an accusation. 

I think taubman was fired ultimately due to the terrible reactions by crane and luhnow. 

What he did was bad but if the astros hadn't tried to spin this "fake news media try to spin something against us" tactics they could have moved on. The astros reaction was in the end a bigger story than taubman's action and the Astros felt the only way to quiet down the situation was to sacrifice taubman.

I can understand that people feel that "PC zealots killed him" thing but the thing that ruined it was that the astros questioned the media credibility, they should have known that journalists stand together if you do that.

More than a story about PC media and a guy saying something wrong this is a story about very bad PR strategy that went terribly wrong and in the end taubman needed to be sacrificed to create peace and not affect player focus.

Dominik85 posted:

RJM posted:

https://www.si.com/mlb/2019/10...taubman-fired-astros

The Astros just fired Taubman. He obviously did something wrong. But I’m tired of people being fired for every politically incorrect thing they do. We’ve become a society that‘s turned getting offended into an art. Even though I’m a right leaning libertarian I was against forcing Al Franken to resign.

Unless there’s a track record the best solution is make the person grovel in public for an apology. Then make them do some kind of community service until they get it.

Thwre are too many males being tossed out of colleges without due process due to zero tolerance after an accusation. 

I think taubman was fired ultimately due to the terrible reactions by crane and luhnow. 

What he did was bad but if the astros hadn't tried to spin this "fake news media try to spin something against us" tactics they could have moved on. The astros reaction was in the end a bigger story than taubman's action and the Astros felt the only way to quiet down the situation was to sacrifice taubman.

I can understand that people feel that "PC zealots killed him" thing but the thing that ruined it was that the astros questioned the media credibility, they should have known that journalists stand together if you do that.

More than a story about PC media and a guy saying something wrong this is a story about very bad PR strategy that went terribly wrong and in the end taubman needed to be sacrificed to create peace and not affect player focus.

1000% correct

Dominik85 posted:

More than a story about PC media and a guy saying something wrong this is a story about very bad PR strategy that went terribly wrong and in the end taubman needed to be sacrificed to create peace and not affect player focus.

There's a hint of familiarity here.  Lol

fenwaysouth posted:

There is an old saying in baseball that great pitching, great defense and timely hitting trumps all.  This is what the Nationals have done throughout the playoffs against "better teams on paper".   Love it when old sayings are true.  When I look at this objectively, Verlander kept them in the game and went toe to toe with Strasburg throughout the game.   They were on a similar pitch count and both settled down after a rough first inning.  However, then Nats defense was much better.  The Astros defense was exposed for poor judgement.   Bregman knows he has to hold that infield hit ball which led two more runs and opened the flood gates because of an errant throw to first.   Okay Verlander gave up the go ahead to Suzuki but that is just one run and you've got to be disciplined with decisions to keep your team in the game.  The Astros just looked sloppy, and they didn't know what to do because they've never been in that position before.   The Astros dug themselves a hole and their bats couldn't get them out....so much for timely hitting.   

There were glimpse of the Nats playing this well during the season, but nothing like the streak they are on now.  The Nats are my national league team and I follow them pretty closely.  The Astros just look lost and they are trying to blast themselves out of this offensive funk.   This is playing right into the Nats hands.

As always, JMO.  

 

Nats had 2 errors though.  Both are feeling the pressure.  The Nats bat came through, but Houston's bats are pretty amazing and all the core 6 guys have proven to be clutch one time or another.  I really enjoyed the pitching though.  Verlander vs Strasburg.  That's like Nolan Ryan vs Roger Clemens back in the day.  Verlander was one of the first modern pitchers to throw 99 consistently and Strasburg was probably supposed to be the greatest phenom ever.  It was a great battle until the Nats broke it open against the pen.  

Personally , I think the real story is that the Taubman controversy has killed the Astros mojo.   Best thing about the game are the intangible elements to winning.  Its about atmosphere and team chemistry.  One little Bryce Harper in the cog and ...  

In all of this excitement.... I forgot to mention the poor Altuve decision to try to steal third with the big bats coming up.   Astros are forcing this, and trying to do too much.    Why steal third when you have your big boppers at the plate and coming up, and you're already in scoring position.   It was one of the worst decisions in this series and it cost the Astros mojo, momentum and a chance to score. 

I can't wait for tonight's game!

I never thought of the Nationals as underdogs in this series.  They started the year so bad, but they also started the year without their full team healthy and playing.  So, we have to take that 107 wins for Astros vs 93 for Nationals with a grain of salt.  Since May 24 when the Nationals became whole, they actually have a better record and statistics.  Unless the Astros can get into the Nationals' bullpen early tonight and pull off the win, this series is setting up for a sweep.  And it would not be a total surprise to many baseball observers.

EastCO posted:

Personally , I think the real story is that the Taubman controversy has killed the Astros mojo.   Best thing about the game are the intangible elements to winning.  Its about atmosphere and team chemistry.  One little Bryce Harper in the cog and ...  

I guess this is a chat board, so you can write anything you want.

The Nationals have played better.  An asst GM you never heard of before isn't Bryce Harper in the locker room.

Go44dad posted:

EastCO posted:

Personally , I think the real story is that the Taubman controversy has killed the Astros mojo.   Best thing about the game are the intangible elements to winning.  Its about atmosphere and team chemistry.  One little Bryce Harper in the cog and ...  

I guess this is a chat board, so you can write anything you want.

The Nationals have played better.  An asst GM you never heard of before isn't Bryce Harper in the locker room.

Haha. Actually its an American chat board, so yes... I get to write my opinions just like you.  But I dont underestimate the role of internal and external factors in team play.  Baby shark shark shark shark. 

Astros won a game they needed to win, and played much better last night.  They got the timely hits.

Couldn't help noticing (I'm not blind!) the umpire had a whimsical strike zone last night.  It seemed to me that both starting pitchers were getting squeezed on borderline calls, but Sanchez moreso.   It seemed like the strike zone opened up when the relievers came in.   I couldn't help wondering how often MLB umpire have their eyesight checked.   

BTW...Greinke is the reason why a pitching clock is needed.   Freaking ridiculous.

Fenway, before I would buy Sox tickets I would chart out when Buchholz was scheduled to pitch and avoid it. Even at home you could make a kitchen run between pitches.

fenwaysouth posted:

BTW...Greinke is the reason why a pitching clock is needed.   Freaking ridiculous.

Chapman was worse; he seemed so slow I started timing him, he was 26-36 seconds between pitches.  Greinke seemed slow, so I got to timing him last night too, but he really was mostly just 20-25 seconds most pitches.

With these slow pitchers, the t.v. cuts to a shot of the crowd, then the dugout, then the manager, then close-up of the batter, then pitcher, all while waiting for the next pitch.  It's really annoying.

Around 11:30 last night I was wistfully recalling a 1-0 Mets game I attended this past season. It went 2:10.  The only run was a Syndergaard HR.  It could have gone under two hours had the Reds not made a couple of pointless late pitching changes.

Astros have turned the series around, wouldn't surprise me if the win in 6 now.

Dominik85 posted:

Astros have turned the series around, wouldn't surprise me if the win in 6 now.

Not so fast.   Astros have turned two games around...yes I can count at the advanced age of 57.  Series is still tied and a toss up.  One game at a time Dominik85.   Let's see what Mr Scherzer and Mr Cole have to say tonight at 8:07pm EST in a battle of real freaking aces.   Love me a pitchers duel and we all might get to bed before midnight!

Enjoy!

fenwaysouth posted:

Dominik85 posted:

Astros have turned the series around, wouldn't surprise me if the win in 6 now.

Not so fast.   Astros have turned two games around...yes I can count at the advanced age of 57.  Series is still tied and a toss up.  One game at a time Dominik85.   Let's see what Mr Scherzer and Mr Cole have to say tonight at 8:07pm EST in a battle of real freaking aces.   Love me a pitchers duel and we all might get to bed before midnight!

Enjoy!

Like, forget football today let’s just get to it. Two of the best in the game pitching in the biggest game of their life.