MLB Pennant Races

Congrats to the Nats!  A true underdog season.  I saw them play twice this year, and they did not resemble the team I watched last night.   I was staring at the game 7 box score this morning and their lineup.   It is just not a scary lineup throughout, but boy did they get timely hits throughout the playoffs.  Scherzer was masterful in his mediocrity (which is still pretty darn good!) as he didn't yield more than 2 runs, and kept them in the game.  Everybody knew Scherzer was struggling to find the zone and couldn't get ahead of hitters but somehow he minimized the damage and left a lot of Astros runners on base.  Greinke was unbelievable.   You hate to see a SP pitch like that and not get the win.  Baseball can be cruel.

No doubt once the celebration is over, the Nats will turn their attention to the business of baseball.  They've got some tough decisions to make.   They'll be fine.  

PS...One last thought...I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.   Why else would 40+ grown men of all ages storm the field, hug each other, in some cases kiss each other, jump up and down, and act like little kids after winning the World Series.  

I am still in shock and I am a Nat's fan.  I thought the Nat's were toast until Rendon blasted the HR in the 7th followed by Kendrick's 2 run shot off the right pole.  Wow!  Just wow!   The runs added in the 8th and 9th were just icing.

I was surprised that Hinch never brought Cole in.   I know he preferred to bring him in at the beginning of an inning and not in the middle with traffic on the bases, but had he done so it might have given Houston a chance.  Greinke was just cruising and I could see him going the entire game.

The baseball gods must have been smiling on the Nationals. Unbelievable that they were able to win 5 must win games in the post season. 

Harper who?

What a crazy moment it was when Greinke had Soto struck out, but didn't get the strike call. The ensuing walk changed the entire game. I thought it was absurd to take Greinke out at that moment. He had what, 75 pitches? He was still mystifying Nats batters and they were getting increasingly frustrated, which made for short at bats. 

So the really bad non call of strike three (and I agree with others how bad the home late umpiring was) resulted in a really bad manager decision to yank Greinke. Changed the whole game.

Rob Kremer posted:

What a crazy moment it was when Greinke had Soto struck out, but didn't get the strike call. The ensuing walk changed the entire game. I thought it was absurd to take Greinke out at that moment. He had what, 75 pitches? He was still mystifying Nats batters and they were getting increasingly frustrated, which made for short at bats. 

So the really bad non call of strike three (and I agree with others how bad the home late umpiring was) resulted in a really bad manager decision to yank Greinke. Changed the whole game.

Agreed yanking Greinke was the key decision in the game and the series.  I thought it was crazy given the one run lead, his incredible command, his pitch count, and Cole in the wings.  They were set up.  Disagree that this particular game wasn't well called behind the plate.  I thought it was actually exceptionally well called other than one or two calls, the Soto call being the most egregious. 

The Detroit Tigers 2014 rotation:
Justin Verlander - 2017 World Series champ
Rick Porcello - 2018 World Series champ
David Price - 2018 World Series champ
Max Scherzer - 2019 World Series champ
Anibal Sanchez - 2019 World Series champ

https://twitter.com/bradgalli/...757232008839168?s=12

Well, I didn't have a dog in the fight so hoped for an epic seven game battle.  If anything, I tend to favor the underdog when my team isn't in it and I really like the blue collar bulldog that Scherzer is.  But there is a lot to like on both squads.  So many great story lines and different personalities.  Listenting to post-game player interviews, sounds like there was a real TEAM thing going on with the Nats, but again, I think both squads had that.  Great to see... not always the case with loaded championship teams.  All in all, it was a pretty darn good series, although most of the games generally were not close at the end.  It's just a shame that the umpiring behind the plate, at least the last few games, was really not good and arguably had too much of an impact on the results of several at-bats, among other things.

Wechson, I saw at least 8-10 very bad ball-strike calls last night that were confirmed bad not only by K-zone but by the straight down camera angle and the player reactions.  Son and I were discussing hitting before the game and he made the point how good most MLB players' eyes are for the zone - that when they react with any degree of animation, they are right nine times out of ten.

Yeah, Fenway, my wife commented post-game - she still can't understand why a bunch of grown men act that way after winning  

Congratulations Nats and fans! 

I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.

I saw a poll of players on this a couple of years ago. In baseball, football and basketball big money won. Only hockey players chose winning a championship. I’m guessing if you poll only players in their thirties their perspective might change. 

We can second guess Hinch but in my opinion, it was just meant to be for the Nats. Harris has been lights out and most importantly, he executed the pitch that he wanted and Kendrick still hit it out. Plus, if Cole gives up that bomb, people would be asking why didn’t he go with Will Harris. Poor managers can never win unless they win. LoL 

I think I read that Kendrick has one hit all year in 27 at-bats against cutters in the general location. 1-27 but now he’s 2-28.  

If you’ve watch sports enough, you could see it coming. Springer smokes a ball that would have scored two runs but Soto makes the play. Altuve smokes a ball with two on but right at the CF. 

From all the late inning heroics to past the Dodgers and Astros to Scherzer getting to start game seven instead of possibly matching up against Cole in game 5. Don’t forget the very close pitch that was called a ball to Soto to set up the two run pump.  IMO, it was just the year of the Nats and there’s nothing that Houston could have done about it. 

P.S. When does a ball ever hit the bag at and not get away from the first baseman? 

RJM posted:

I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.

I saw a poll of players on this a couple of years ago. In baseball, football and basketball big money won. Only hockey players chose winning a championship. I’m guessing if you poll only players in their thirties their perspective might change. 

From the reports that I’ve read/heard, it’s not like the Phillies gave Harper a ridiculous amount more than what the Nats offered. I heard the deals were very similar financially so we’re talking apples to apples. If that’s true, then Harper left because he wanted to, not because of the money. 

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.

I saw a poll of players on this a couple of years ago. In baseball, football and basketball big money won. Only hockey players chose winning a championship. I’m guessing if you poll only players in their thirties their perspective might change. 

From the reports that I’ve read/heard, it’s not like the Phillies gave Harper a ridiculous amount more than what the Nats offered. I heard the deals were very similar financially so we’re talking apples to apples. If that’s true, then Harper left because he wanted to, not because of the money. 

Washington Post: "The Nationals offered Harper a 10-year, $300 million contract near the end of the 2018 season — a deal that, notably, would have given Harper a higher average annual value than the one he ultimately got from the Phillies. However, according to multiple people in the industry, the Nationals’ offer also contained deferrals of up to $100 million, to be paid out over decades — so much deferred money that Major League Baseball raised concerns. Such deferred payments would have significantly reduced its present-day value. Harper’s Phillies contract, by comparison, contains no deferrals."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...iladelphia-phillies/

MidAtlanticDad posted:

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.

I saw a poll of players on this a couple of years ago. In baseball, football and basketball big money won. Only hockey players chose winning a championship. I’m guessing if you poll only players in their thirties their perspective might change. 

From the reports that I’ve read/heard, it’s not like the Phillies gave Harper a ridiculous amount more than what the Nats offered. I heard the deals were very similar financially so we’re talking apples to apples. If that’s true, then Harper left because he wanted to, not because of the money. 

Washington Post: "The Nationals offered Harper a 10-year, $300 million contract near the end of the 2018 season — a deal that, notably, would have given Harper a higher average annual value than the one he ultimately got from the Phillies. However, according to multiple people in the industry, the Nationals’ offer also contained deferrals of up to $100 million, to be paid out over decades — so much deferred money that Major League Baseball raised concerns. Such deferred payments would have significantly reduced its present-day value. Harper’s Phillies contract, by comparison, contains no deferrals."

https://www.washingtonpost.com...iladelphia-phillies/

👍🏾

https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...ffer-45-million-year

hshuler posted:

👍🏾

https://www.google.com/amp/s/a...ffer-45-million-year

Definitely seem like long term security was his #1 priority. Maybe he and the Nats both needed a fresh start.

cabbagedad posted:

Wechson, I saw at least 8-10 very bad ball-strike calls last night that were confirmed bad not only by K-zone but by the straight down camera angle and the player reactions.  Son and I were discussing hitting before the game and he made the point how good most MLB players' eyes are for the zone - that when they react with any degree of animation, they are right nine times out of ten.

 

I can't vouch for his methods or accuracy but Umpire Auditor on Twitter had Jim Wolf with an 88.9% correct call rate in game 7, which is well below average.

https://twitter.com/UmpireAudi.../1189958290144280576

What I don't get in a series like this is you have a crew of 6. There has to be 2 guys who are recognizably best at working plate.  Use them there.  Leave the others in the field.  (Too much wear and tear for the one best guy to do all the games.)

I'm also wondering -- just because it's off-season now and there is time to wonder, what if, before we go all in on full umpire robot mode, it's done partially. Each team gets a small number of balls-and-strikes challenges, say 3 or 4 per game. For call to be overturned, is has to be egregiously bad, as for example most of those in the tweet above.  This would not have to add any time to the game.  An ump working remotely could watch every pitch live, flag the really bad calls, and send the rulings to a device carried by the plate ump.  Manager signals his challenge and plate ump checks the device for an instant ruling. 

At the same time, let's institute a clock on regular challenges.  Start the clock when the umps grab the headsets. If they can't get a ruling within 60 seconds,  the original call stands.

hshuler posted:

RJM posted:

I'm wondering what Bryce Harper and Superagent Scott Boras are thinking this morning.  For the superagent it is about money but for the player I think the ring means a lot to them.

I saw a poll of players on this a couple of years ago. In baseball, football and basketball big money won. Only hockey players chose winning a championship. I’m guessing if you poll only players in their thirties their perspective might change. 

From the reports that I’ve read/heard, it’s not like the Phillies gave Harper a ridiculous amount more than what the Nats offered. I heard the deals were very similar financially so we’re talking apples to apples. If that’s true, then Harper left because he wanted to, not because of the money. 

 The Nationals offer had money deferred over decades. In net present value the offers weren’t even close. 

JCG posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Wechson, I saw at least 8-10 very bad ball-strike calls last night that were confirmed bad not only by K-zone but by the straight down camera angle and the player reactions.  Son and I were discussing hitting before the game and he made the point how good most MLB players' eyes are for the zone - that when they react with any degree of animation, they are right nine times out of ten.

 

I can't vouch for his methods or accuracy but Umpire Auditor on Twitter had Jim Wolf with an 88.9% correct call rate in game 7, which is well below average.

https://twitter.com/UmpireAudi.../1189958290144280576

What I don't get in a series like this is you have a crew of 6. There has to be 2 guys who are recognizably best at working plate.  Use them there.  Leave the others in the field.  (Too much wear and tear for the one best guy to do all the games.)

I'm also wondering -- just because it's off-season now and there is time to wonder, what if, before we go all in on full umpire robot mode, it's done partially. Each team gets a small number of balls-and-strikes challenges, say 3 or 4 per game. For call to be overturned, is has to be egregiously bad, as for example most of those in the tweet above.  This would not have to add any time to the game.  An ump working remotely could watch every pitch live, flag the really bad calls, and send the rulings to a device carried by the plate ump.  Manager signals his challenge and plate ump checks the device for an instant ruling. 

At the same time, let's institute a clock on regular challenges.  Start the clock when the umps grab the headsets. If they can't get a ruling within 60 seconds,  the original call stands.

JCG, in the same conversation I mentioned above, son had a very similar idea to yours.  One concern, of course, is if that door is opened, will it just lead to robotic ump anyway, to which I have reservations.  I just can't understand how the best of the best at the highest level miss that much and, like you said, why they don't have the best of the crew working behind the dish in playoffs.  That's what I would like to see.

I thought I heard the announcers say last night that the plate umpire was the ump who had the best rating for balls and strikes all season, according to the way that they rate them, that's why he was specifically chosen to work the plate for game 7.

JCG posted:

cabbagedad posted:

Wechson, I saw at least 8-10 very bad ball-strike calls last night that were confirmed bad not only by K-zone but by the straight down camera angle and the player reactions.  Son and I were discussing hitting before the game and he made the point how good most MLB players' eyes are for the zone - that when they react with any degree of animation, they are right nine times out of ten.

 

I can't vouch for his methods or accuracy but Umpire Auditor on Twitter had Jim Wolf with an 88.9% correct call rate in game 7, which is well below average.

https://twitter.com/UmpireAudi.../1189958290144280576

What I don't get in a series like this is you have a crew of 6. There has to be 2 guys who are recognizably best at working plate.  Use them there.  Leave the others in the field.  (Too much wear and tear for the one best guy to do all the games.)

I'm also wondering -- just because it's off-season now and there is time to wonder, what if, before we go all in on full umpire robot mode, it's done partially. Each team gets a small number of balls-and-strikes challenges, say 3 or 4 per game. For call to be overturned, is has to be egregiously bad, as for example most of those in the tweet above.  This would not have to add any time to the game.  An ump working remotely could watch every pitch live, flag the really bad calls, and send the rulings to a device carried by the plate ump.  Manager signals his challenge and plate ump checks the device for an instant ruling. 

At the same time, let's institute a clock on regular challenges.  Start the clock when the umps grab the headsets. If they can't get a ruling within 60 seconds,  the original call stands.

I've argued for this, as tennis has actually done a really good job here.  If anything, the contested line call reveals are dramatic in-and-of themselves and additive to the game.  I wasn't really for the concept until this post season when the 3D graphics made it clear the technology had advanced enough that it would be significantly accurate.  This feels like a smart solve.  Keeps the human element, but tech is added in to enhance the accuracy and ultimately improve the product. 

anotherparent posted:

I thought I heard the announcers say last night that the plate umpire was the ump who had the best rating for balls and strikes all season, according to the way that they rate them, that's why he was specifically chosen to work the plate for game 7.

I thought he was pretty good. The Correa punch out was the only obvious miss that I remember. Every other close calls could have gone either way. 

anotherparent posted:

I thought I heard the announcers say last night that the plate umpire was the ump who had the best rating for balls and strikes all season, according to the way that they rate them, that's why he was specifically chosen to work the plate for game 7.

Agree with HShuler.  He was pretty good and definitely better than the other Homeplate umpires that came before him in the World Series.