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If watching is caring then yeah, I care at  least somewhat.  It's cool to see franchises like the Reds and Padres become relevant again. White Sox and Marlins too.

Having a 4 way race for the last wild card going into the last 2 games is pretty cool.  I'm a Giants fan, and a fair-weather Mets fan, but I wish I had any confidence in either of them, and I have no confidence in whoever gets that slot and has to face the Dodgers.

Maybe it's NL West bias but I feel like whoever comes out of the top half of the NL bracket - Dodgers or Padres - will handle ATL for the NL pennant and go on to beat the Rays or Yankees or whoever.

I understand the shortened season, but my feelings are meh. Baseball for me, is all about the grind, what team can grind it out and come up the winner for 168 plus playoff games.

However, I am pretty impressed that the Marlins are in, but under a normal season, probably not!

Now, none of that.  If we can get excited about college baseball with its shorter season, or high school baseball even shorter, heck if we can get excited about a weekend-long travel tournament, we can get excited about this.  It's baseball - heard that the Brewers just turned a triple play.  It's still a triple play, just because there wasn't a full season of grind behind it.

@57special posted:

The White Sox are absolute monsters, but my Twins can be very good, especially if Odorizzi comes back and is effective. Cleveland also has a great pitching staff, which is everything. The AL Central has been unexpectedly strong.

The big prediction on ESPN is that the Twins will finally win a playoff game.  Tough time to play at 1:00 PM.  Will have to find a way to watch on my phone while 'working'.

 

Well, I could not want the Cardinals to win, and I'm glad for the Padres, but it is pretty embarassing that all seven Central division teams are gone in the first round.

Do you think that there is a correlation between young studs being brought up in an empty stadium and seasoned players missing the roar of the crowd? 

We had a family discussion about this today. I don't know the teams well enough to make that call.

 

Well, I could not want the Cardinals to win, and I'm glad for the Padres, but it is pretty embarassing that all seven Central division teams are gone in the first round.

At least they got to the first round.  The Red Sox were 24-36 and the Nationals were 26-34.   Now, that is more embarrassing than a home plate umpire splitting his pants.

PS...Still rooting for the Rays.  I'd like to see somebody new win the World Series.

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Last edited by fenwaysouth

So does a 10-5 win mean that the Astros can hit, for real?

Astros team OPS dropped from 848 in 2019 to 720 in 2020 and that is a huge drop and some see it as evidence that it was the cheating that made them great but they also had some bad luck. Obviously they overperformed in 2019 and are not that good but I think they are still a good hitting team.

Losing Alvarez to injury and altuve having knee problems most of the year did not help. Also the distraction of all that in the media didn't help either. 

Maybe the cheating helped them some and they were more an 800 ops team than an 850 ops team but I still think they were good. 

I just can’t pull myself to watch swing and a miss, swing and a miss, swing and a miss, swing and a miss, boom, baseball. I’ll watch again when the NCAA tournament baseball returns.

I read an article on what’s wrong with Andrew Benintendi. The Sox changed his swing angle several degrees to turn him into a 5’9” power hitter. Excluding this year’s injury disaster he’s now a questionable prospect hitting .260 with less power having trouble making contact and striking out an absurd amount instead of a .290 with 20 homer, 40 doubles power hitter.

i just can’t watch this crap. It’s crap it takes four hours to watch, I was a diehard baseball fan for a half a century MLB lost. I never watch more than a couple of innings anymore. After watching three of six hitters strike out, and it takes an hour, I change the station.

Last edited by RJM

Gotta love the Brousseau story.  Just a  great game that came down to an amazing at-bat. Only thing that could have made that HR bigger would be if it was in the WS.  He showed a lot of class in the post-game too.

Before all the BS I was very Astros-friendly but I'll definitely be rooting for a Rays vs. Atlanta series.*

(Even though I'll be rooting against his team, I want George Springer to know that the Giants are a class organization with fantastic fans, on the rise again, and signing with them would be a great next step in his career.)

@RJM posted:

I just can’t pull myself to watch swing and a miss, swing and a miss, swing and a miss, swing and a miss, boom, baseball. I’ll watch again when the NCAA tournament baseball returns.

I read an article on what’s wrong with Andrew Benintendi. The Sox changed his swing angle several degrees to turn him into a 5’9” power hitter. Excluding this year’s injury disaster he’s now a questionable prospect hitting .260 with less power having trouble making contact and striking out an absurd amount instead of a .290 with 20 homer, 40 doubles power hitter.

i just can’t watch this crap. It’s crap it takes four hours to watch, I was a diehard baseball fan for a half a century MLB lost. I never watch more than a couple of innings anymore. After watching three of six hitters strike out, and it takes an hour, I change the station.

You should have watched the Heat beat the Lakers, much more exciting.

@TPM posted:

You should have watched the Heat beat the Lakers, much more exciting.

I haven’t watched any NBA basketball. Black Lives Matter is an anti Semitic organization. It supports organizations (Nation of Islam, Hamas, Hezbollah) that believe in the eradication of Jews from the planet. I’m not sure what this has to do with black lives. Farrakhan rants Jews control America and deprive blacks of opportunity.

The NBA learned their lesson. Their ratings have been hit the worst. They’re removing social issue logos from the court next season.

The NBA has ruined their game. Chucking up thirty threes a game is the basketball equivalent to swing for the fences every pitch.

What I’ve discovered over the past seven months is I don’t really miss pro sports. I won’t be purchasing tickets to one or two games per month anymore. Maybe once a season for each of the four sports. When sports are on tv I stray from the event back to what I’m reading frequently. I’m reading more than watching.

If sports loses diehards like me imagine the fear they have of losing the casual fan. There’s a lot more of them than diehards.

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@JCG posted:

OMG the Dodgers drop an 11 spot in the top of the first!!?? Fortunately I’m “glamping” in the desert rn so I did not have to witness it.

Snitker woke the Dodger offense up by bringing in Tomlin last night.  He should be reserved for blowouts like today, not holding down a 9th inning lead.

Hopefully, the Dodgers spent all their bullets tonight, but pitching matchups don’t favor the Braves in game 4&5.

Like clockwork playoff Kershaw reappears. Maybe this is a sign that 2020 is starting to go back to normal.

Tonight was on him, but the hidden story in all this is that he has had to pay the price his entire playoff career for some terrible managerial decisions and unfortunately it reflects poorly on him.

At the same time, to earn that trust that he will find a way to get it done his teammates and managers must really respect him. He's been so good his entire career that they refuse to believe it will happen again. That being said I'm not going to watch something happen 10x and expect a different result the 11th time around.

The Dodgers have been too good for the past 7 years to have done absolutely nothing. Roberts has to go as soon as they're eliminated.

Last edited by PABaseball
@PABaseball posted:

Like clockwork playoff Kershaw reappears. Maybe this is a sign that 2020 is starting to go back to normal.

Tonight was on him, but the hidden story in all this is that he has had to pay the price his entire playoff career for some terrible managerial decisions and unfortunately it reflects poorly on him.

At the same time, to earn that trust that he will find a way to get it done his teammates and managers must really respect him. He's been so good his entire career that they refuse to believe it will happen again. That being said I'm not going to watch something happen 10x and expect a different result the 11th time around.

The Dodgers have been too good for the past 7 years to have done absolutely nothing. Roberts has to go as soon as they're eliminated.

What are they supposed to do? Not start their 30 million/year hall of fame starter?

BTW Kershaw has clearly been worse in the post season and had quite a few implosions but he still has a 4.3 Era in 177 postseason innings. That is sub par for his standards but still doesn't really warrant sitting him as the 4th starter that would replace him likely would be worse than that.

He also had plenty of good starts and allowed less than 3 in 13 of 28 starts.

Sure you wish he were better in the post season but you absolute can't not start him in the playoffs.

@Dominik85 posted:

What are they supposed to do? Not start their 30 million/year hall of fame starter?

This is more the point I'm making. Your 30 million/year future hall of famer has to be better.

The 4.3 ERA is average, but doesn't tell the whole story. He has been absurdly bad in every clutch spot and big game. Allowing 3 or less in 13/28 means he has allowed 4+ in more than half his playoff starts. Now I put a lot of that on Mattingly and Roberts as well. Running him out for the 7th with a 5 run lead. Not yanking him after 100 pitches in a tight game. Bringing him in relief when you have the best closer in baseball. The list goes on. There are 8 minute YouTube videos of Kershaw playoff implosions. You can watch the highlights from any of those games and say what is he still doing in the game.

It's not completely fair to him, it just seems like any time his team is on the brink of elimination or in a tight spot he ends up getting the ball. I like Kershaw, but I can only watch the same thing happen so many times before I have a pretty good idea of what the next result will be. You have to start him, but short leash has to be the name of the game.

@PABaseball posted:

This is more the point I'm making. Your 30 million/year future hall of famer has to be better.

The 4.3 ERA is average, but doesn't tell the whole story. He has been absurdly bad in every clutch spot and big game. Allowing 3 or less in 13/28 means he has allowed 4+ in more than half his playoff starts. Now I put a lot of that on Mattingly and Roberts as well. Running him out for the 7th with a 5 run lead. Not yanking him after 100 pitches in a tight game. Bringing him in relief when you have the best closer in baseball. The list goes on. There are 8 minute YouTube videos of Kershaw playoff implosions. You can watch the highlights from any of those games and say what is he still doing in the game.

It's not completely fair to him, it just seems like any time his team is on the brink of elimination or in a tight spot he ends up getting the ball. I like Kershaw, but I can only watch the same thing happen so many times before I have a pretty good idea of what the next result will be. You have to start him, but short leash has to be the name of the game.

It was actually less than 3 13 times, he had a couple 3s on top of that too. But I agree you expect him to be better.

One thing that also happened imo was him pitching to much down the stretch in September in many of his peak years despite the dodgers having an 8 game lead in September.

I know he was in some tight CY races and probably demanded to pitch and would be pissed if he lost a CY due to skipping a start but I think if they maybe skipped a start and shortened another 2 he could have been more fresh.

It would have meant throwing away 1 or 2 games of your 8 game lead and possibly cost him a CY but maybe helped in the post season.

This would have needed to be a front office decision of course but they could have done it, really no need to pitch 220 regular season innings when you are running away with the division (talking about young Kershaw here, nowadays he isn't throwing as much anymore of course).

@PABaseball posted:

This is more the point I'm making. Your 30 million/year future hall of famer has to be better.

The 4.3 ERA is average, but doesn't tell the whole story. He has been absurdly bad in every clutch spot and big game. Allowing 3 or less in 13/28 means he has allowed 4+ in more than half his playoff starts. Now I put a lot of that on Mattingly and Roberts as well. Running him out for the 7th with a 5 run lead. Not yanking him after 100 pitches in a tight game. Bringing him in relief when you have the best closer in baseball. The list goes on. There are 8 minute YouTube videos of Kershaw playoff implosions. You can watch the highlights from any of those games and say what is he still doing in the game.

It's not completely fair to him, it just seems like any time his team is on the brink of elimination or in a tight spot he ends up getting the ball. I like Kershaw, but I can only watch the same thing happen so many times before I have a pretty good idea of what the next result will be. You have to start him, but short leash has to be the was name of the game.

I think I agree with you here. He's been mismanaged a ton in the playoffs. Last year's mistake was ridiculous. And last night, while not on the level of 2019, was certainly a mistake. He should have been pulled after Freeman's double, if not at the start of the inning. The Braves lineup was ahead of him from the first AB, and he was going to get pummeled at some point. I think the game state after Acuna's single in the 6th was the definition of a high leverage situation, and is the type that Roberts/Dodger mgmt has shown an consistent ability to either mishandle or not recognize at all.

If the Dodgers come back to win it, it will not be due to Roberts. But if they lose, I do believe it will be due to Roberts.

@Dominik85 posted:

I think dusty baker did a great job. He lost Cole, Verlander, Alvarez and the trash can and still made it to game 7 of the ALCS

Thank Brett Strom and the Astros player development system for the pitching. Eight rookie pitchers carried them through the playoffs.

And thanks Dom, I take a shot at every bad, unoriginal trash can joke. It had been a few hours.

@Dominik85 posted:

Yeah Astros pitching depth is really good, they developed more pitchers in the last two years than the red Sox in the last 15

We left out Astros losing their closer, Osuna.  I think Strom retires this offseason, if I remember correctly.  Springer walks, Brantley walks, but could resign short term. I hope they can sign Correa, he is the best player on the team. Their farm system has been rated in the bottom five the last couple of years.

Also, Jeff Luhnow gave his first interview since the cheating scandal.  Strangely/not strangely to a local Houston TV station.

https://www.click2houston.com/...tros-gm-jeff-luhnow/

"Retirement" has not been kind to Jeff, as he went from one of the smartest baseball man I know to Sergeant Schultz in short order.

schultz

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I want the Dodgers to mulch the Rays. MLB does not need teams duplicating the Ray way. MLB baseball is boring enough. The last thing I want is the Sox and Chaim Bloom replicating the Ray way. I want to see Bloom find pitching talent like the Rays and retain it with the money they have.

@RJM posted:

I want the Dodgers to mulch the Rays. MLB does not need teams duplicating the Ray way. MLB baseball is boring enough. The last thing I want is the Sox and Chaim Bloom replicating the Ray way. I want to see Bloom find pitching talent like the Rays and retain it with the money they have.

Yeah, I actually agree with that. I get why people root for then as they are super smart and beat the odds as a financial underdog, the rays org has done a great job in the last 12 years, no doubt about that. Their front office is probably the best out there and remained so after losing Friedman to the dodgers and bloom to the Sox, they just seem to have a GM pipeline just like they have a prospect pipeline.

However while not really their fault they are doing some things that I don't love:

1. Endless platooning, using openers, tons of bullpen. That makes sense of course as they can't afford stars but for the fans it is more attractive if you have star hitters who bat every day and starters who go 7

2. Exploiting young players while they are cost controlled and then not pay them when they are due to a raise and I'm not even talking just free agency but even arb 2 and arb 3 when they often trade them away. Again very smart but really the deal was underpay young players and overpay veterans and rays avoid that. For the brand value that is not great, baseball is not like basketball regarding to star players but still guys like Ortiz or Jeter who have been the face of the franchise for a decade plus did help with fan identification compared to a big turnover just to gain 0.5 war here and there

This is not the rays fault though, they do their best very effectively but MLB shouldn't allow owners to consistently roll out a payroll that low. It is OK to do that for 3 years in a rebuild but if you do that consistently for 15 years imo teams need to relocate or being sold to another owner. Either it is the owners fault or the market just can't support a mlb franchise. Either way mlb should react.

I would not be against a hard salary cap of let's say 170m but then also force teams to spend at least like 130m, maybe you get a 3 year per decade rebuild exempt from that.



That some teams have 3 times the payroll of others just sucks and wouldn't happen in NBA or NFL and that needs to be changed. Maybe the big spenders deserve some blame but also the consistent salary cellar teams. I'm OK with the orioles or tigers having low payrolls for some time because they are tanking and have spent 150+M before but not with teams like the As, marlins or rays who do that consistently 15 years in a row.

Last edited by Dominik85
@Dominik85 posted:

Yeah, I actually agree with that. I get why people root for then as they are super smart and beat the odds as a financial underdog, the rays org has done a great job in the last 12 years, no doubt about that. Their front office is probably the best out there and remained so after losing Friedman to the dodgers and bloom to the Sox, they just seem to have a GM pipeline just like they have a prospect pipeline.

However while not really their fault they are doing some things that I don't love:

1. Endless platooning, using openers, tons of bullpen. That makes sense of course as they can't afford stars but for the fans it is more attractive if you have star hitters who bat every day and starters who go 7

2. Exploiting young players while they are cost controlled and then not pay them when they are due to a raise and I'm not even talking just free agency but even arb 2 and arb 3 when they often trade them away. Again very smart but really the deal was underpay young players and overpay veterans and rays avoid that. For the brand value that is not great, baseball is not like basketball regarding to star players but still guys like Ortiz or Jeter who have been the face of the franchise for a decade plus did help with fan identification compared to a big turnover just to gain 0.5 war here and there

This is not the rays fault though, they do their best very effectively but MLB shouldn't allow owners to consistently roll out a payroll that low. It is OK to do that for 3 years in a rebuild but if you do that consistently for 15 years imo teams need to relocate or being sold to another owner. Either it is the owners fault or the market just can't support a mlb franchise. Either way mlb should react.

I would not be against a hard salary cap of let's say 170m but then also force teams to spend at least like 130m, maybe you get a 3 year per decade rebuild exempt from that.



That some teams have 3 times the payroll of others just sucks and wouldn't happen in NBA or NFL and that needs to be changed. Maybe the big spenders deserve some blame but also the consistent salary cellar teams. I'm OK with the orioles or tigers having low payrolls for some time because they are tanking and have spent 150+M before but not with teams like the As, marlins or rays who do that consistently 15 years in a row.

For a ceiling/floor salary cap by team you must address revenue sharing across the league.  Can't compare NFL/NBA to MLB on salary cap unless you also compare revenue sharing.

I agree with you on 3x payroll differences between teams.

Also, James Click is from Rays front office and now GM of the Astros.


It’s not hard to rip off a best announcer in football, basketball and hockey. If everyone doesn’t agree it’s because there’s talent. Mine are Al Michaels, Marv Albert , Mike Emrick.

Then, there’s baseball. Name one good national (not local) announcer. Keep thinking. He’ll come along someday.

If we work backwards ... “I’m Mel Allen. It’s time for This Week In Baseball.” Allen’s voice was the first sign of spring. Allen died twenty-four years ago.

Last edited by RJM

Don Orsillo is my favorite baseball play by play.  The Red Sox released him and he is now with the Padres replacing Dick Enberg.   Big shoes to fill in Enberg, but Orsillo is really, really good.   There are many Red Sox fans who have not forgiven ownership for letting Orsillo's  NESN contract expire in 2015.

Picked Off - 100% agree Jon Miller is also great play by play guy.  I remember when he was with the Orioles.  I can listen to him all day long.

The names being mentioned are local guys. They’re not game of the week or playoff announcers. Most people probably don’t know who they are.

When Jon Miller did ESPN Sunday Night Baseball years ago was when it was at it’s best. Oh my! Dick Enberg was a great national announcer.

I looked up Dave Flemming. Apparently he’s done some ESPN baseball. It shows how much I pay attention at this point. ESPN should have gone after Orsillo.

Last edited by RJM
@RJM posted:

I once saw a comedian demonstrating a baseball announcer compared to a hockey announcer broadcasting love making. Short version ...

Baseball announcer: Honey, wake up! We’re not done.

Hockey announcer: I love you, I love you, I love you, Scorrrrrrrrrrrrre!

Hahaha..

A-Rod:  "Jen, does my hair and make-up look OK?  I hope they got my belly line right with the waxing.  Be careful with my Gucci boxers...  can we go out to Le Sirenuse for eggplant parm after this so I can tell the guys?"

@RJM posted:

The names being mentioned are local guys. They’re not game of the week or playoff announcers. Most people probably don’t know who they are.

When Jon Miller did ESPN Sunday Night Baseball years ago was when it was at it’s best. Oh my! Dick Enberg was a great national announcer.

I looked up Dave Flemming. Apparently he’s done some ESPN baseball. It shows how much I pay attention at this point. ESPN should have gone after Orsillo.

Miller spent 20 years at ESPN until 2010.  He has also been with SF Giants since 1997 and is in the National Hall of Fame.

Flemming, a Stanford guy, does national work work for ESPN, NCAAFB and LLWS. I did say that he was an up and comer. Orsillo resume only local teams. He has big shoes to fill following Enberg departure in San Diego.

Agree, Enberg was great!

@Picked Off posted:

Miller spent 20 years at ESPN until 2010.  He has also been with SF Giants since 1997 and is in the National Hall of Fame.

Flemming, a Stanford guy, does national work work for ESPN, NCAAFB and LLWS. I did say that he was an up and comer. Orsillo resume only local teams. He has big shoes to fill following Enberg departure in San Diego.

Agree, Enberg was great!

The entire Giants broadcast team is excellent, and I enjoy listening to Miller work with all of them, but I think he's at his best when he has to go it alone on the radio, preferably during a blowout or other dull game and he starts spinning stories that last multiple innings as he weaves in and out of the game action.  Just great stuff.

As for his national career, back in the day ESPN found a way of ruining the pleasure of a Sunday night game even with a HOF broadcaster in Miller and a HOF second baseman (Joe Morgan) in the booth.  I think they did then what they do now, regardless of the on-air talent or the type of game covered: over-produce the product, work too hard to fill every second of air time with words, overpack the booth,  and try to create storylines rather than let the players dictate the story.  It just became unwatchable, which was sad then and seems even more so now with Morgan's passing.

I chatted Jon Miller up once, maybe 30 years ago, when we were both waiting for a train in the Baltimore Amtrak station.  Nicest, most approachable and engaging guy you would ever meet, and anecdotally more than happy to talk baseball with random strangers.

@JCG posted:

The entire Giants broadcast team is excellent, and I enjoy listening to Miller work with all of them, but I think he's at his best when he has to go it alone on the radio, preferably during a blowout or other dull game and he starts spinning stories that last multiple innings as he weaves in and out of the game action.  Just great stuff.

As for his national career, back in the day ESPN found a way of ruining the pleasure of a Sunday night game even with a HOF broadcaster in Miller and a HOF second baseman (Joe Morgan) in the booth.  I think they did then what they do now, regardless of the on-air talent or the type of game covered: over-produce the product, work too hard to fill every second of air time with words, overpack the booth,  and try to create storylines rather than let the players dictate the story.  It just became unwatchable, which was sad then and seems even more so now with Morgan's passing.

I chatted Jon Miller up once, maybe 30 years ago, when we were both waiting for a train in the Baltimore Amtrak station.  Nicest, most approachable and engaging guy you would ever meet, and anecdotally more than happy to talk baseball with random strangers.

I think Giants fans are spoiled with the high level of broadcast talent. It makes it hard to listen to others, especially whoever ESPN has doing the broadcast.

Big steal for the rays even though Dodgers are still favored for me as the rays are deep but don't have quite the stars and their offense also is more one dimensional with their big focus on three true outcomes while the dodgers have power but also the ability to hit for contact.

But the longer the series goes I think it helps the rays first due to their bullpen depth and also because the experienced dodger players like Kershaw, Turner, Bellinger, seager, Jansen might start to think about their two WS losses and how LA Media  and fans would react if the unthinkable happens and the dodgers lose a third WS.

Ratings way down.   Games run too long & late and are far less interesting as they should be.

The rules need to be changed with the goal of eliminating between 50 and 75 pitches per game.  The sport is unwatchable for more than 2 minutes at a time.

I DVR'd  game 6 and watched the whole thing in less than 10 minutes.  3 1/2 hour game that had 10 hits and 4 walks and 27 K's.  Not one of those pitchers is getting near the HOF either.  Just crappy nibbling and a bunch of 3-2 sliders.

I used to watch 140 games a year.  I think I watch that many innings now and interest is dropping.

God I remember peddling 100 mph on my bike to get home from school to catch the 3rd inning with my friends.  Hung on every pitch. 

Manfred get to work.

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