Movement in the swing....

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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His delay movement is a slight coil in his front hip that he holds throughout the stride until toe touch.

Not what I see....

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His delay movement is a slight coil in his front hip that he holds throughout the stride until toe touch. He then turns both knees to the ball and keeps that stretch by starting the bathead rearward.

Where does this stretch that he keeps come from?

It comes from turning his lower half or belly button to contact position while keeping the top half from turning at all (keeping top half closed, bottom half open or twisting the rubberband) until right before go with the hands. The top half will start to chase the bottom half just before the top hand takes the bathead to the ball.


You don't see him leading slightly with his back pocket and the side of his knee?

This is very good discussion. I appreciate it. Others?

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There is lag in the swing...However, I don't agree with you in how the lag is created and what the lag is about....

There are actually 2 lags in top players' swings, IMO. One is a lag/delay of the upper body and the second is the lag/delay of the top hand.

Robinson is loading his hands up and back as his hips (or Pelvis if that is better for you) rotates away from them at toe touch and the heel is planted by the rotation of the hips.

He has way more weight on his front foot in this clip than I like with very little weight shift, but his size and strength allowed him to get away with it I guess. I'd rather see a game clip to see if he had the same motion, but I'll take your word for that. His bottom hand looks too far out in front on this swing too, like he miss timed the pitch. I would say he used his core and glutes mainly to power his swing. By the way, his stride and swing is very similar to Morneau's except his is longer (the stride that is).

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I gotta tell you, I don't consider the belly button part of the lower half....

I use the bellybutton reference for my students because you can't turn the pelvis without turning the bellybutton and it is a good visual or reference point for me and them.


I like the clip of Giles, because his swing is very much what I try to teach younger kids.

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He has way more weight on his front foot in this clip than I like with very little weight shift, but his size and strength allowed him to get away with it I guess.

Many of the old-time great hitters were front foot hitters.....

I don't think you can say they didn't shift their weight well....They had lots of weight shift...

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Originally posted by BlueDog:

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He has way more weight on his front foot in this clip than I like with very little weight shift, but his size and strength allowed him to get away with it I guess.

Many of the old-time great hitters were front foot hitters.....

I don't think you can say they didn't shift their weight well....They had lots of weight shift...

Yes, both of these hitters had good weight shift, but in the clip you provided of Robinson he doesn't and that's why I would like to see a game clip to see if he did the same things then.

It's funny, these clips are pretty much the "pull the back knee drill" I use from the John Cohen DVD.

Just not sure how successful that approach would be against todays pitching. I'd actually have to see someone do it before I would believe it, but I'm not saying it's impossible.

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Just not sure how successful that approach would be against todays pitching.......

I hear alot of people say this....

One thing I'm sure of is, the old-time great hitters were as good, or better, than today's great hitters....Which leads to this....

If someone dismisses their swing as being different technique than today's hitters, I think they're making a mistake....

The only way someone can truly understand what great hitters do, they must discover how the old-time and modern day great hitters, both, created and effected weight shift....I believe they do/did it the same way.....

You see a difference...I don't....You're looking at the knees...I'm not....

Kid Nichols....

They all have movement but in differnet fashion---the body moves as one unit

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The only way someone can truly understand what great hitters do, they must discover how the old-time and modern day great hitters, both, created and effected weight shift....I believe they do/did it the same way.....

You see a difference...I don't....You're looking at the knees...I'm not....

The weight shifts to and from the same body parts, but how it is shifted is entirely different. One is done by rotation and the other is done by back to front motion (mostly in their strides).

You talk about being centered, these guys are not centered except in their stance. All of their weight is shifted to the back leg and then shifted to the front leg and that is why they would have trouble hitting a change-up, sinker, splitter or good 12/6 curveball, when the Pitcher has a mid 90s + fastball. The weight has to start shifting too soon, it's just too slow. It would be ground ball city, IMO or maybe just ugly strike outs.

I believe this is why the "no stride" technique came about.

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The weight shifts to and from the same body parts, but how it is shifted is entirely diferent.

You got the part in bold wrong....

Shoeless Joe, Cobb, Ruth, Williams, Mantle, Aaron, McGuire, Pujols, Bonds, and Manny all create and effect weight shift the same way....

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One is done by rotation and the other is done by back to front motion (mostly in their strides).

Weight shift is neither entirely back to front or rotation and it happens, both, during and after the stride....

In the top clip the weight is shifted to the front leg causing his momentum to go forward which he uses to help swing the bat (which is evident in the fact that he ends up with all of his weight on his front leg). In the bottom clip maybe only 25% of his weight stays on his front leg during the swing and he is not using that momentum to help him swing (which is evident in the fact that he ends up on his back leg in his finish). He's using his weight transfer to stretch his core against his hands and he uses that as his momentum to help him swing.

You can use both techniques to chop a tree down, hit a fastball or BP pitch very effectively, but a good change-up or 12-6 curveball????? I'm just not sure.

dog-

nice clips, but you still, as usual, didn't answer question of how to teach someone to stretch the front hip against the back on command... and two of your pics i didn't see that happening anyways....

blue-
go back to your dark apt room and look for whatever kind of site you look for and find all your pics... bottom line, you still haven't told me how to teach it and how to teach it/"command" it when a youth kid is swinging....

teachers teach...

you just say this, say that and believe it is true and that that is what should be happening in a swing but have no idea how to teach it to someone so they can be successful...

you're ability to teach is around the "knowledge" section on Bloom's Taxonomy... do what you can to elevate your ability to be a qualified teacher and your students, if you even have any, will get the rewards....